HarjasDevi

At least I don't go around making retarded death threats over a disagreement.

I have not read Shri Sarbloh Granth Sahib Ji. But it makes sense if this is true because the jogis tied kes in a topknot over the dasam duaar to form a protective seal/mudra where the kes was energized with praan by practices of pranayama, kriyas and mantra japa. That is the purpose of a joora. The kes itself forms the mudra, not the keski, because the NAAM vibrates in the kes.

There is always the claim made that the translation is wrong. I am not reading the bani in English. Most of the words which contain potent philosophical and spiritual concepts are Sanskrit translated into Punjabi. Veer ji, for the sake of having bani which is readily accessibly for discussion purposes I cite what can be directly copied and pasted. I also accept that the English translation isn't optimal. I am happy for you to point out particular arths and problems with translation please. Let me show you an example: Acẖuṯ pārbarahm parmesur anṯarjāmī. Maḏẖusūḏan ḏāmoḏar su▫āmī. Rikẖīkes govarḏẖan ḏẖārī murlī manohar har rangā. Mohan māḏẖav krisan murāre. Jagḏīsur har jī▫o asur sangẖāre. Jagjīvan abẖināsī ṯẖākur gẖat gẖat vāsī hai sangā. Ḏẖarṇīḏẖar īs narsingẖ nārā▫iṇ. Ḏāṛā agre paritham ḏẖarā▫iṇ. Bāvan rūp kī▫ā ṯuḏẖ karṯe sabẖ hī seṯī hai cẖanga. Sarī rāmcẖanḏ jis rūp na rekẖ▫i▫ā. ~SGGS Ji ang 1082 Can you provide an appropriate translation please which shows that the nirgun God is somehow the only true God and the devatay and avtaray are like "false" gods? Because very clearly the bani is saying the das avtaray ARE Parabrahm, and hence sargun manifestation of the nirgun Lord. And the descriptors given are beyond dispute Vaishnav definitions of God which includes the sargun as well as nirgun aspects. Please explain the English translation problems please. As I am not reading in English. om purnam adah purnam idam purnat purnam udacyate purnasya purnam adaya purnam evavasisyate om shanti shanti shanti That is the whole, this is the whole; from the whole, the whole becomes manifest; taking away the whole from the whole, the whole remains. Om. Peace! Peace! Peace! ~Isopanishad invocation The roop of the das avtaray is a manifestation of the wholeness. It is a plenary portion, as is the phenomenal world. The whole could not completely manifest in the finite, or the finite would cease by expressing the fullness of the infinite. tad ejati tan naijati tad dure tan vantike tad antarasya sarvasya tad u sarvasyasya bahyatah The Supreme Lord walks and does not walk. He is far away, but He is near as well. He is within everything, and again, He is outside everything. ~Isopanishad mantra 5 Because the Supreme Lord is nirgun AND sargun, He is both formless and with form. You cannot say the God cannot have form because that would be putting a limit on the infinite. And there is no limit to His powers or His ability to manifest and veil Himself through powers of Mayajog. Certainly there is no tuuk in Gurbani which says there is a limit to the Supreme. There is no tuuk which says the God does NOT manifest as avtaray. But in many places is saying the Parabrahm incarnates in Yuga cycles to maintain Dharma of the world. The forms are very clearly identified, *Who lifted up Govardhan mountain? *Who saved Dropati's honor? *Who plays the flute? *Who has blue-skin and is called keshava? *Who carries the Sudarshana Chakra? It's not a mystery. Why would Gurbani have all these specific details if God has no form? Why are the names Shri Ramachandra, Narasingh, Hari, Krishan even in the bani? Because they all mean nirguna? No. Impossible. Because they all refer to the sargun manifestation of the nirguna. There are millions of Rams and millions of Krishnas on millions of worlds. The God is INFINITE. But in this sansaar, to limited beings, the INFINITE manifests in the perceivable finite. If you doubt this, then you doubt Guru. Because that manifestation is the same thing as what a Satguru is, perceivable form of the INFINITE. If not, then the bani of such a Master would have no power to lead us safely across the ocean of sansaar. Sarīrang baikunṯẖ ke vāsī. Macẖẖ kacẖẖ kūram āgi▫ā a▫uṯrāsī. Kesav cẖalaṯ karahi nirāle kīṯā loṛėh so ho▫igā. ||8|| Nirāhārī nirvair samā▫i▫ā. Ḏẖār kẖel cẖaṯurbẖuj kahā▫i▫ā. Sāval sunḏar rūp baṇāvėh beṇ sunaṯ sabẖ mohaigā. ||9|| Banmālā bibẖūkẖan kamal nain. Sunḏar kundal mukat bain. Sankẖ cẖakar gaḏā hai ḏẖārī mahā sārthī saṯsangā. ||10|| Pīṯ pīṯambar ṯaribẖavaṇ ḏẖaṇī. Jagannāth gopāl mukẖ bẖaṇī. Sāringḏẖar bẖagvān bīṯẖulā mai gaṇaṯ na āvai sarbangā. ||11|| ~SGGS Ji ang 1082 *Who lives in Vaikuntha? ...Vishnu *Who became the fish and turtle? ...Vishnu *Who is Keshava, the Lord of beautiful hairs? ...Krishna *Who is without hate? ...Krishna *Who carries the conch, the chakr, the club? ...Vishnu Hari *Whose clothes are yellow-color....Hari! *Who is Jagannatha Gopal? ...Hari Krishna *Who is the Archer who has many limbs? ...Ram of Avodya It's not a mystery. And these are not English descriptions. Neither are they mistranslations. Fresco depicting a scene from Markandey Puraan where Durga crushesMahikasur (a demon), at the Guru Ram Rai Udasin Akhara at Dehradun,Uttranchal, India Guru Ram Rai Udasin Akhara Gurdwara of Sikh Guru Ram Rai. Dehradun. The Gurdwara was built in1687, but the gate (from which this detail was taken) was built at theend of the 19th century. Ram and Laxman. Guru Ram Rai Dehradun

For what it's worth veer Ji I don't want to see your viewpoint under moderation. I think what the moderator Jeo was objecting to was your style. You have a valid opinion and you can calm down and put that into perfectly good points. Just accept that everyone is not going to agree with you. You wrote a lot of personal attack about me that was really childish in another thread. Why don't you channel your energies more wisely, and instaed point out why you think something is wrong, why you think something is dangerous. Look, nobody has the power to destroy Sikhism. And you aren't a sant-sipahi qualified to defend it. Not like this with bitter words and spewing insults and threats and things. When you lose Dharma, there's nothing you can defend. The only right to force you have is in defense, when all other means have failed. Not over someone's opinions, dodgey or not. You're going on about "bad people." I myself, seem to be one of them. Why not live and let live? You can't change my opinions and I can't change yours. But it's foolish to think you can have a fair and intelligent opinion forum filled with banning, censorship and intimidation of anyone who doesn't agree with a certain sampradaya, or certain view. Have you ever heard of Panthic Ekta? I would like to know who's going around telling these young and punky people they are God's gift to Sikhism and have the right to announce who should live and who should die? If anyone is destroying Sikhism, it isn't open debate, analysis and the freedom to correct and contradict. But the people who are acting like thugs and bullying all viewpoints which disagree with them by baiting, threats, personal slanders, attacks and intimidation. These people are making Sikhism look like Taliban. At the end of the day, our opinions about the truth don't matter. And in fact nobody has got it "right." Regardless what all the foolish people in the world "think," the eternal Truth will always be the "Truth." It can't be wounded, bullied, sullied or tarnished. It remains ever Pure. And that Niramal Sat is a Divine Presence who loves us. He is in love with all His creation. If we lose the message of love and justice, then we are out of tune with "Truth."

What exactly veer ji did you find against Vaishnavism in that Guru vaak? Those stories of Ramayana are known by everybody. It was no insult to Vaishnav sampradaya to point it out. It was the Bhakti reform of Vaishnavism which first accepted all castes, foreigners like Musalims, and women. It was this Sant Mat Bhakti which had such influence on Sufism. The problem seems to be the distorted definition of Sanatana Dharma as only the worst and most outrageous excesses, Brahminism, etc, that blinds people to the real history of what the saints within Sanatana Dharma have been teaching for hundreds of years. The tuuk is saying that Naam Dev Ji has turiya consciousness and has transcended. It is not saying anybody's worship is false. It is only pointing out that people's understanding of spirituality is limited and stuck in duality. Any Hindu knows that Ram and Sita and also Ravan are within ourselves. There is a profound symbolism in the teachings. The sants like Nam Dev understood the essence directly. But nothing is a condemnation of Vaishnavism, das avtaray, Ram, Vishnu, or anything like it.

Bhagat Nam Dev Ji was born in 1270, died 1350. Guru Nanak Dev Ji was born in 1469. So, he adopted Gurmat Siddant 119 years before Guruji was born... And I should be banned because it's crazy to inform the Sikh Awareness sangat that he was a devotee of Vishnu roop Visoba and wrote what is essentially Vaishnav Mat 100 years before there was a form of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. He is a famous reformer of Sanatana Dharma from within the bhakti movement, that makes him a Vaishnav. If it makes you happy to accuse me falsely in degrading ways, then I thank you for carrying my sins. But veer ji, your logic and motivation are still not right. Neither is your conclusion denying the obvious. Perhaps if you used less grade school baiting and flaming technique, your discussion of spiritual issues would be useful to someone. No one can learn anything in an atmosphere of abusive talk and hatred and banning. I invite you to reflect on how you are presenting Sikhi to the world. As I said before, this kind of representation has lost the boat of mukti and has nothing to offer a suffering world. ਨਿੰਦਾ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਬਹੁ ਭਾਰੁ ਉਠਾਵੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਮਜੂਰੀ ਭਾਰੁ ਪਹੁਚਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੪॥ nindhaa kar kar bahu bhaar outhaavai bin majooree bhaar pahuchaavaniaa ||4|| By continually slandering others, they carry a terrible load, and they carry the loads of others for nothing. ~SGGS Ji ang 118 andham tamah pravisanti ye'sambhutim upasate tato bhuya iva te tamo ya u sambhutyam ratah. Those who are engaged in the worship of demigods enter into the darkest region of ignorance, and still more so do the worshippers of the Absolute. ~Isopanishad mantra 12 It is not by our worship or by our belief and understanding that we will find the path to mukti. It is only by Guru's grace. Whether we worship and believe in the murthi or it's symbolic representations or claim to be devotees of AKAAL, we are trapped in the avidya and darkness of our minds, we remain captive to the lusts and ego in our hearts that puts ourselves higher and another lower. So the Upanishad is warning that those who try to worship that which is beyond worship and form are in the greater ignorance than those who worship demi-gods. "Only He Himself can know Himself." We cannot worship what the mind can't even conceive. We can only surrender to the gyaan and piare of Satguruji. Through bhakti and bairaag we will cling to the Guru's charan, and put those charan on our hearts and on our minds and be freed from the terrible bondages burning there. It has never mattered what people think about the Divine. It's not by our thoughts that liberation can come. But for certain the despising of others, ridiculing them and egoistic hatred will take us far from the path of grace and love.

Thanks for the tip. Yas tu sarvani bhutany atmany evanupasyati sarva-bhutesu catmanam tato na vijugupsate. A person who sees everything in relation to the Supreme Lord, and sees all entities as His parts and parcels, and who sees the Supreme Lord within everything, never hates anything, nor being. ~Shri Isopanishad mantra 6

AKAAL is the true essence of Krishan Ji. However, what is being described is sargun roop of Krishan Ji is not exactly the same thing as formless AKAAL. Otherwise why didn't the bani just negate every reference to Krishan Ji's roop and simply write AKAAL. Obviously there has to be some meaning for it. The error is not the clear description of Krishan Ji in Gurbani, but the refusal to acknowledge it. Just because the God is nirgun and sargun doesn't mean that we should get hysterical at every mention of some sargun roop or avtaray and immediately try to fit it into nirgun box. Even this is a mental concept not grasping the significance that bani being cited and discussed is Vaishnav bhagat bani of Nam Dev, and hence clearly and unmistakeably references to sarguna in form of Krishan Ji. How many hoops you want to jump through to deny it and blame translations?

Yes, Krishna is AKAAL. But the formless aspect is not being described as blue-skinned, murali, vrindavan, with gopis, etc. So obviously what is being described is a sargun aspect. And that aspect is unmistakably Krishna roop, not AKAAL. It is not a translation error.

You are doing what is called a straw man fallacy. You are setting up that my points are something ridiculous so you can pat yourself on the back while tearing down the ridiculous thing. The problem is the lie in your mouth distorting what I have said as ridiculous. I said sargun is temporary and finite. Why would you lie that I said otherwise? I said Nirguna is without and beyond form. What exactly is your objection? I did not abuse your personal characteristics to call as stupid and insane veer ji. Why don't you take a look in the mirror at what kind of person you really are. Why is every few posts always telling me to go away to the Hindus? Do you really believe I have no right to express an opinion here? Is this about censorship and using flaming abuse of personal characteristics to bully a certain political viewpoint which is anti-Hindu? What's wrong with a picture of Devi? I like what She represents. Especially there are so few holy and powerful images of females in the world which are not playthings for manmukh men. Devi is a wonderful role model. Why trash that? .WHY IS YOUR AVATAAR A PICTURE OF DEVI THIS ISMANMAT Why is a picture manmat? I had an experience of Devi. That was manmat too? Why are you trashing Hindu religion and someone's personal beliefs? Is that because Sikh's are haters of any view not in their own sampradaya or box? Wouldn't that be "manmat?"

M.K. Gandhi was raised by Jains. His entire world-view was actually Jain mat, and utterly contrary to the teachings of Bhagavad-Gita. This extreme Jain pacifism is why he disrespected Marathi hero Shivaji as well as Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaaj.

PAL 07 writes: Veer ji, is that really a way to talk to someone? What exactly is the different meaning of chaturbuj? We can't look at the Gurbani literally in your case, because the entire pauri on page 1082 is a literal PRAISE of the God in Das Avtaray. You say it is not literally 4 arms. Yet is says clearly, 4 arms. Is it also not really blue skin, murali the flute player either? Is it really not Vrindavan and gopis? Is it really not? Then what really is it? please? It is true that the God is beyond form in Nirguna. But all the creation is roop of the Lord as well. Does not Gurbani say the Lord is niragun AND saragun? If the Lord is saragun, that means there is a form. Now, as to form, what is a form? A form is only a representation, a shadow of something deeper and more intrinsic. When I look at a human being, I only see the face, the flesh, the physicality. The body is your FORM. But YOU are not your body. YOU are something the eye cannot see.

veer ji Singh2 writes: "The verses are very clear.Do not find fault with translations." Yet the shabad in context of which you have written is also saying below: ਹਰਏ ਨਮਸਤੇ ਹਰਏ ਨਮਹ ॥ Har▫e namasṯe har▫e namah. I bow to the Lord, I humbly bow to the Lord. ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਕਰਤ ਨਹੀ ਦੁਖੁ ਜਮਹ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Har har karaṯ nahī ḏukẖ jamah. ||1|| rahā▫o. Chanting the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, you will not be tormented by the Messenger of Death. ||1||Pause|| ਹਰਿ ਹਰਨਾਕਸ ਹਰੇ ਪਰਾਨ ॥ Har harnākẖas hare parān. The Lord took the life of Harnaakhash, ਅਜੈਮਲ ਕੀਓ ਬੈਕੁੰਠਹਿ ਥਾਨ ॥ Ajaimal kī▫o baikunṯẖėh thān. and gave Ajaamal a place in heaven. ਸੂਆ ਪੜਾਵਤ ਗਨਿਕਾ ਤਰੀ ॥ Sū▫ā paṛāvaṯ ganikā ṯarī. Teaching a parrot to speak the Lord's Name, Ganika the prostitute was saved. ਸੋ ਹਰਿ ਨੈਨਹੁ ਕੀ ਪੂਤਰੀ ॥੨॥ So har nainhu kī pūṯrī. ||2|| That Lord is the light of my eyes. ||2|| ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਕਰਤ ਪੂਤਨਾ ਤਰੀ ॥ Har har karaṯ pūṯnā ṯarī. Chanting the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, Pootna was saved, ਬਾਲ ਘਾਤਨੀ ਕਪਟਹਿ ਭਰੀ ॥ Bāl gẖāṯnī kaptahi bẖarī. even though she was a deceitful child-killer. ਸਿਮਰਨ ਦ੍ਰੋਪਦ ਸੁਤ ਉਧਰੀ ॥ Simran ḏaropaḏ suṯ uḏẖrī. Contemplating the Lord, Dropadi was saved. ਗਊਤਮ ਸਤੀ ਸਿਲਾ ਨਿਸਤਰੀ ॥੩॥ Ga▫ūṯam saṯī silā nisṯarī. ||3|| Gautam's wife, turned to stone, was saved. ||3|| ਕੇਸੀ ਕੰਸ ਮਥਨੁ ਜਿਨਿ ਕੀਆ ॥ Kesī kans mathan jin kī▫ā. The Lord, who killed Kaysee and Kans, ਜੀਅ ਦਾਨੁ ਕਾਲੀ ਕਉ ਦੀਆ ॥ Jī▫a ḏān kālī ka▫o ḏī▫ā. gave the gift of life to Kali. ~SGGS Ji ang 874. The Shabad comes from Bhagat Nam Deyv, a great 13th century Vaishnava sant. The LORD described in the bani, is Bhagavan Krishna, the incarnation of Hari. It is describing the Lila of the Lord who will liberate the world from the net of delusion which is Maya. But in other places bani says the God Himself has deluded us. The God Himself is Maya. It cannot be taken out of context. *Who took the life of Harnaakhash who threatened to kill Prahlad? It was Vishnu avatar Narasingh the man-lion. *Who gave the mahapaapi Brahmin Ajamal a place in heaven? Narayana, because on death-bed he called out name Narayan. *What was going on with Pootna/Putana? Here is the background of the story and will explain entire pauri and all the jado tuna stuff and goddess of smallpox who killed children. *Who saved dropadi's honor? Bhagavan Krishna *Who killed the demons Kaysee and kans? Bhagavan Krishna The Lord being described here is unmistakably Krishna, not AKAAL. And the adventures being described all come from Puranic and Shastric literature. ਭੈਰਉ ਭੂਤ ਸੀਤਲਾ ਧਾਵੈ ॥ Bẖairo bẖūṯ sīṯlā ḏẖāvai. One who chases after the god Bhairau, evil spirits and the goddess of smallpox, ਖਰ ਬਾਹਨੁ ਉਹੁ ਛਾਰੁ ਉਡਾਵੈ ॥੧॥ Kẖar bāhan uho cẖẖār udāvai. ||1|| is riding on a donkey, kicking up the dust. ||1|| ਹਉ ਤਉ ਏਕੁ ਰਮਈਆ ਲੈਹਉ ॥ Ha▫o ṯa▫o ek rama▫ī▫ā laiha▫o. I take only the Name of the One Lord. ਆਨ ਦੇਵ ਬਦਲਾਵਨਿ ਦੈਹਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Ān ḏev baḏlāvan ḏaiha▫o. ||1|| rahā▫o. I have given away all other gods in exchange for Him. ||1||Pause|| ਸਿਵ ਸਿਵ ਕਰਤੇ ਜੋ ਨਰੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥ Siv siv karṯe jo nar ḏẖi▫āvai. That man who chants "Shiva, Shiva", and meditates on him, ਬਰਦ ਚਢੇ ਡਉਰੂ ਢਮਕਾਵੈ ॥੨॥ Baraḏ cẖadẖe da▫urū dẖamkāvai. ||2|| is riding on a bull, shaking a tambourine. ||2|| ਮਹਾ ਮਾਈ ਕੀ ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰੈ ॥ Mahā mā▫ī kī pūjā karai. One who worships the Great Goddess Maya ਨਰ ਸੈ ਨਾਰਿ ਹੋਇ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥੩॥ Nar sai nār ho▫e a▫uṯarai. ||3|| will be reincarnated as a woman, and not a man. ||3|| ਤੂ ਕਹੀਅਤ ਹੀ ਆਦਿ ਭਵਾਨੀ ॥ Ŧū kahī▫aṯ hī āḏ bẖavānī. You are called the Primal Goddess. ਮੁਕਤਿ ਕੀ ਬਰੀਆ ਕਹਾ ਛਪਾਨੀ ॥੪॥ Mukaṯ kī barī▫ā kahā cẖẖapānī. ||4|| At the time of liberation, where will you hide then? ||4|| ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਗਹੁ ਮੀਤਾ ॥ Gurmaṯ rām nām gahu mīṯā. Follow the Guru's Teachings, and hold tight to the Lord's Name, O friend. ਪ੍ਰਣਵੈ ਨਾਮਾ ਇਉ ਕਹੈ ਗੀਤਾ ॥੫॥੨॥੬॥ Paraṇvai nāmā i▫o kahai gīṯā. ||5||2||6|| Thus prays Naam Dayv, and so says the Gita as well. ||5||2||6|| ~SGGS Ji ang 874 Does Gurbani not also say in another place that people call on the One Lord by the Naam Shiva, Shiva? This bani is indisputably from Vaishnava Sampradaya perspective because it is pointing out the preeminance of Naam, Gita, and the Lord HariKrishna. And for this reason, as per Vaishnav Mat, the Shaktas and Shaivas are being corrected that the only practices and Lord worthy is Bhagavan and Nama japa. The correction is being made for jado tuna people who use tantras and mantras to manipulate powers of Mayajog and evil spirits. If you studied Vaishnavism at all you would understand that Mayajog is also one of Bhagavan Krishna's powers. Which explains the other verse in bani stating that the Lord is Himself Maya. Using logic, what Guru's teachings was Bhagat Nam Deyv referring to in bhagat bani? Hint, it was not Satguru Nanak Dev Ji. Namdev's Guru was Visoba. And the fact that this bani is part of Gurbani reflects the truth of the teaching and the universality of the truth. In the Kalyug as per Gita teaching, the only means of mukti is by Satguru and Nama Jap. The One Lord is permeating the Das Avataray as well as Gurbani vakia. I do not see where the teaching of Adi Shakti Devi and Sarbloh shastars is to be rejected on the basis of these tuuks. You do not understand what is being said here. There is a huge history of sectarian in-fighting between the various sampradayas, especially the Shaivas and the Vaishnavas. And we could get entangled in endless debate over it. But the simplest resolution is as I already pointed out, the qualified Advaitvaad which explains the Pre-eminence of the Primal Unity who is One without a second. For this reason, Gurbani is reflecting the same description of devatay as the Vaishnav sampradaya, in that they are called as demi-gods, referring to subordination, or partial opulences of the One Bhagavan. It's a very specific and unmistakable philosophical school. But on the other hand, in the qualified Advaita perspective, there is no division. The division is perceived only because we are in duality and not turiya consciousness. The bhagat bani of Naam Deyv was referring to the story of Krishna nearly killed by the goddess of smallpox. So you have to understand not just the little pieces. ਆਪੇ ਸਕਤਾ ਆਪੇ ਸੁਰਤਾ ਸਕਤੀ ਜਗਤੁ ਪਰੋਵਹਿ ॥ Āpe sakṯā āpe surṯā sakṯī jagaṯ parovėh. You Yourself are All-powerful, and You Yourself are the Intuitive Knower. The whole world is strung on the Power of Your Shakti.~SGGS Ji ang 1242 Whose shakti? Who is Shakti?

All have two arms like us? Where did you get that? ਕਿਆ ਜਪੁ ਕਿਆ ਤਪੁ ਕਿਆ ਬ੍ਰਤ ਪੂਜਾ ॥ Ki▫ā jap ki▫ā ṯap ki▫ā baraṯ pūjā. What use is chanting, and what use is penance, fasting or devotional worship, ਜਾ ਕੈ ਰਿਦੈ ਭਾਉ ਹੈ ਦੂਜਾ ॥੧॥ Jā kai riḏai bẖā▫o hai ḏūjā. ||1|| to one whose heart is filled with the love of duality? ||1|| ਰੇ ਜਨ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਧਉ ਸਿਉ ਲਾਈਐ ॥ Re jan man māḏẖa▫o si▫o lā▫ī▫ai. O humble people, link your mind to the Lord. ਚਤੁਰਾਈ ਨ ਚਤੁਰਭੁਜੁ ਪਾਈਐ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Cẖaṯurā▫ī na cẖaṯurbẖuj pā▫ī▫ai. Rahā▫o. Through cleverness, the four-armed Lord is not obtained. ~SGGS Ji ang 324 Who is the four-armed Lord in Gurbani? I will give you a hint. ਸੰਖ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਗਦਾ ਹੈ ਧਾਰੀ ਮਹਾ ਸਾਰਥੀ ਸਤਸੰਗਾ ॥੧੦॥ Sankẖ cẖakar gaḏā hai ḏẖārī mahā sārthī saṯsangā. ||10|| He carries the conch, the chakra and the war club; He is the Great Charioteer, who stays with His Saints. ||10|| ਪੀਤ ਪੀਤੰਬਰ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣ ਧਣੀ ॥ Pīṯ pīṯambar ṯaribẖavaṇ ḏẖaṇī. The Lord of yellow robes, the Master of the three worlds. ਜਗੰਨਾਥੁ ਗੋਪਾਲੁ ਮੁਖਿ ਭਣੀ ॥ Jagannāth gopāl mukẖ bẖaṇī. The Lord of the Universe, the Lord of the world; with my mouth, I chant His Name. ~SGGS Ji ang 1082 Veer ji, to carry a conch is on it's own pretty meaningless unless you understand what the conch is representing. Then you understand the power being represented by the imagery. First of all, the Lord who has 4 arms and carries these implements is Hari. It's not a new idea, it's a very ancient Hidustani representation of God in the aspect of Vishnu shown as His brilliant Light roop which is golden colored, hence, He is called Hari, as in Harimandir Sahib. This imagery doesn't mean Gurbani is talking about worshipping a murthi of a deva. It means, using the symbolic imagery of Hindustani culture and religion, Gurbani is not alienated from the symbolic imagery of Hindustani culture and religion the way we are today. The Guru Sahibaan and purataan Sikhs had a far deeper and better understanding of this imagery than the simplistic, nay, childish portrayals we make today. The conch is used by Hindus for all sacred temple rituals. No other instrument is purer, because the conch is entire created by the Divine. It is not a man-made item. So it is not polluted by man. The conch is used to sound out the OM. So the conch is representing the Primal Nada. When Lord Vishnu is holding the conch shell, it is representing that the OM/AUM/Pranava which brought everything into creation is originating with Him. And in this aspect, because we know it was Brahma, and not Vishnu who is the creator, we can see that the aspect of Vishnu being expressed in the bani is Parabrahm, Mahavishnu, the Divine Creator Lord. This is entirely Vaishnav Sampradaya teaching. You see, in Sanatana Dharma, all these images aren't competing. It's not one Lording it over another. There is only the One without a second. And all the rest are opulences, lights, magnificences, glories, relating to the One God's inconceivable powers. You see the evil demon of the story, Panchajanya is also representing the panj vikaars which cause people to engage in wrong activities. It is the Lord Himself who warns them through the conch which represents the OM vibrating out of the primal NAAD into sansaara through teachings of true Guru who gives us Shabad, Bani, Giurmantr, NAAM. This protects us from the evil panj vikaars. That is the meaning of conch in the bani. Devi Ma is shown as Shastar-dhari. She is the Battle goddess. That is Her role and function. The Adi Shakti is the energetic force present in those shastars dedicated to the Divine for Dharma. That is their empowerment that they become something holy themselves worthy of worship because the Divine Power is in them. The Divine Power is SYMBOLIZED by Durga Ma. But the Power and the Glory belong only to the One. THAT is Guruji's message. People aren't worshipping metal, they are showing the honor and submission to the Power of God in the sword. Because the God Himself has become a Sword. And the imagery with which He does this is Kalika. Kali is a shakti of Durga. You see, they are really all shakti's of each other, because they are reflections of a RADIANCE which is quite beyond human comprehension. And it it's fullness, that RADIANCE is only ONE. But Chandi/Durga Ma is Guruji's imagery. I didn't put that into the purataan heritage of Gursikhi. The reason the devatay are shown with many arms and heads for example, is not because they are holding a lot of things. It's because they are higher than human, multi-dimensional. Meaning they are acting on more than one level of reality. Where we can only do things on this dimensional reality and are subject to laws of science, they are not limited in the ways we are. Now, I did not say they are unlimited or without limits. Only AKAAL is without limits. Devatay have limits, but they are beyond our limits. That is the symbolic representation of their ability to do more than we can. A 4 dimensional Hypercube, also called Tesseract. We can't really show a 2 or 3 dimensional representation of something beyond 4 dimensions and have it be a true representation in 3-dimensional space that makes any logical sense. Multi-dimensionality is shown by multi-limbs in Hindu tradition. Is there really a painting or sculpture which could capture the immensity of a multi-dimensional concept? How about the idea of universes and lokas originating thousands of years before telescopes and the debates whether the earth revolves around the sun?

laalsingh writes: From established Sanatana Dharma teaching, Divine Mother, Adi Shakti and Baguati are different perspectives and only One. Devi, for example is just a feminine face that people conceptualize in their minds and put it onto a thought of what Divinity is. We already know the Divine is nirguna is TOTALITY and beyond any kind of forms and this is the truest understanding of God that He/She is beyond conceivable human perspectives and ideas. That's why, some little Buddhist lady praying on mala to ideas of Buddhas, or some Musalman Mataji bowing reverently or entreating help for suffering problems, or some Hindu mataji lighting dhoop and placing flowers before Ganapati murthi which reciting chalisa and singing bhajans, I mean all of it has error, but if sincere, all of these prayers are reaching the ONE. We can't really trash the beliefs and practices of others as if we had exclusive rights on God. And we don't know what is the thinking or level of understanding of other people to bully them for not having exactly OUR viewpoint. There is no mother and no Father, and yet ALL conceptions in time and conceivably fallible human comprehension exist within the Divine Totality which manifests in a perceivable ways for our benefit, to reach us in this suffering realm and lead us to Divine peace, and Divine understanding, Divine joy, to unity. How can I make this clear? It isn't simplistic. That's why I wrote so many posts citing Advaitvaad. God is our Beloved Mataji, Pitaji, He is our Divine Friend, the closest of the closest and residing right within our very atma. He is closer than the breath we breathe and the vitality which moves every thought into existence and every beat of the heart. But my brain and the chidabhasa of my intellect perceives and interprets is only a mirror of my own true inner light, the eternal witness, the Kutastha Caitanya. So the imaginings of my brain cannot contain the fullness and totality of concept of the Divine in any such way as to proclaim: yes, this imagery, this symbolism, this detail, this painting, this concept....is God. How can I do that and be correct? On the other hand, I cannot deny that human beings conceptualize God in limited ways. We ALL do this, that's how the brain and mind WORK. It's nothing to do with faults or bad intention. Our brains just work that way. We IMAGINE what God is. We are not at a level of directly PERCEIVING the Divine. So it is closer to the analogy of the cave. We are looking at reflections of shadows on the cave wall. We can't look directly at the Light source which produces those images. Durga Ma is an image, a reflection, all devatay are. If you understood teachings of Bhagavad-Gita in this respect, you would know that not all devatay have the same powers and brilliances. Some are reflecting more than others. So it's a wrong understanding of Hindu religion to think all devatay are the same. Bhagavan Krishna for example is not considered the same as Trimurthi. Even Gurbani describes this. Sadashiva is not considered the same as Trimurthi. So there is already philosophical distinction which should be noted between Brahma-Shiva-Vishnu who are representing the sansaara and the gunas under the delusion of Maya. And Maha-Vishnu as the aspect of Parabrahm which is All-Pervading Light of which Guru Sahibaan are Jyoti-Jyot. Parabrahm who is beyond even limits of Brahma and without limits, unborn and undying. Sadashiva who is Pure Consciousness which rests in eternal undisturbed samadhi who is Sat-Chit-Ananda. The Trimurthi is representing the sargun manifestations of the limited sansaar. but the Para, Maha, Sada are symbolically trying to explain that the Eka is BEYOND the limitations of Sansaar. Likewise, Devi has many radiances. But Mahamaya is like Maha-Vishnu, Sadashiva, Parabrahm. The one able to liberate from Maya because She is that aspect understood to be beyond it. You are asking about "the lady with the tiger." Well I guess it depends on what you understand She is. If you see Her as a reflection, a radiance of the Divine, which is the role of devatay, then no, She is not worthy of worship. Only honor for Her role as helper of the Divine. But if you understood the teachings of the Devi Mahatmyam itself, that She as representation is symbolizing a Greatness which is a trancendental unity, and that is the ONE Great Devi who is the Divine Mother. If you understand that She is merely a reflection of the One Great Light who is our eternal Mata Ji and Pita Ji, then yes, we worship. But to worship the image of a lady on a tiger is foolish. To worship the eternal Light behind such representations is altogether different. Devi in Sanatana Dharma is synonymous with Divine Mother and hence, Parabrahm. I worship Divine Mother who is equally Divine Father and Divine Beloved. Shakti is only a manifestation of One Totality. Of what use is power without consciousness? To worship only in parts is limited. It's not fair to ridicule people for that belief or worship. But it is not correct. Yet, to be honest, how can we, with our limited brains really worship the worshipful Totality? We can't, and so we have Satguru. Cling to Satguruji's charan and He will carry us across, regardless the limitation of our understanding. It's not by our own efforts we attain God, it's by Guruji's grace. Neither. When I meditate I try to clear my mind of all false and fleeting images arising from the human imagination and try to rest in the stillness of God's peace. Yet, I recognize Shiva and Shakti are reflections of something very Holy and beyond us. The very power and consciousness that brings life to the world and to universes upon universes. We can't even think of words of praise. The highest praise we can offer is to sing words of Guruji's shabads and to jap the holy Naam. You're asking the impossible jeeo.

Thank you Kalyug Ji for the link. Yes I can read Gurmukhi but not fluently well, however I have friends who help and use dictionaries. So I'm a bit slow but can read through it no problem. I will definitely manage, I love spiritual philosophy. I also read a bit of Sanskrit, but not very good either.

1. Yes, HE is also abiding within every human being, every living thing, including terrible criminals and even those who we may consider national enemies, though they may be good hearted people and come from innocent families, like Pakistanis and Chinese. 2. I never said I worship Durga. I worship the All-Pervaiding and I honor all forms in which the Divine is expressed. To be honest I can't wrap my mind around exactly what God is, as Jap Ji Sahib expresses so clearly, I would never end writing trying to explain or understand it. But my Divine Beloved, absolutely do I dedicate my life, heart and mind. 3. You are forming judgments about me, what I am like, what I practice, what I believe, what I do, on the basis of assumptions. Did you ever once ask if I worship Devatay? I believe the sarguna which are lights manifesting in Sansaara are reflections of the ONE Great light. If you ever read my posts I also said we should acknowledge the Divinity pervading within each person and try to be a good person. We do namaskarum with folded hands for precisely this purpose. Not to worship the petty individual in front of us, but to honor the Paramatma. Durga, like Raam, is just another representation of the Divine. She represents the Shastars guided by pure intention, to right wrongs, to bring justice for the poor and oppressed. No one in the world is like Durga Ma. Durga Ma is an ideal, a power, a radiance, a manifestation of something so great and so pure and so high, no human mind could ever fathom the grandeur and beauty of it. 4. Also, because I don't like the evil mischief and murderous designs of foreign intelligence agencies which jeopardize peace and prosperity, don't think I haven't criticized Indian police and justice system for evil corruptions either. Veer ji, you do me an injustice because my philosophical world-view is sanatan. And you slander what I actually do believe and practice and that is not right.

The Khalsa Fauj writes: Does Gurbani teach you veer ji to make judgmental statements about the qualities of others? And do you think personal attacks about someone's views are adding anything to a discussion with them? Let's take a look at Gurbani and see what is Gurmat on this subject please, without who is or is not deluded, since all here are except those with brahmgyaan. And I never make such arrogant claim because I so clearly am not. As a moorakh I am only with sincerity sharing my views and hoping also to gain greater insight from the sadhsangat ji. ਦੇਵੀ ਦੇਵਾ ਮੂਲੁ ਹੈ ਮਾਇਆ ॥ Ḏevī ḏevā mūl hai mā▫i▫ā. The source, the root, of the gods and goddesses is Maya. ~SGGS Ji ang 129 Yes and the rest of the Shabad adds: ਆਪੇ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪੇ ਭੁਗਤਾ ॥ Āpe karṯā āpe bẖugṯā. He Himself is the Creator, and He Himself is the Enjoyer. ਬੰਧਨ ਤੋੜੇ ਸਦਾ ਹੈ ਮੁਕਤਾ ॥ Banḏẖan ṯoṛe saḏā hai mukṯā. One who breaks out of bondage is liberated forever. ਸਦਾ ਮੁਕਤੁ ਆਪੇ ਹੈ ਸਚਾ ਆਪੇ ਅਲਖੁ ਲਖਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੪॥ Saḏā mukaṯ āpe hai sacẖā āpe alakẖ lakẖāvaṇi▫ā. ||4|| The True Lord is liberated forever. The Unseen Lord causes Himself to be seen. ||4|| ਆਪੇ ਮਾਇਆ ਆਪੇ ਛਾਇਆ ॥ Āpe mā▫i▫ā āpe cẖẖā▫i▫ā. He Himself is Maya, and He Himself is the Illusion. ਆਪੇ ਮੋਹੁ ਸਭੁ ਜਗਤੁ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥ Āpe moh sabẖ jagaṯ upā▫i▫ā. He Himself has generated emotional attachment throughout the entire universe. ਆਪੇ ਗੁਣਦਾਤਾ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵੈ ਆਪੇ ਆਖਿ ਸੁਣਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੫॥ Āpe guṇḏāṯā guṇ gāvai āpe ākẖ suṇāvṇi▫ā. ||5|| He Himself is the Giver of Virtue; He Himself sings the Lord's Glorious Praises. He chants them and causes them to be heard. ||5|| ਆਪੇ ਕਰੇ ਕਰਾਏ ਆਪੇ ॥ आपे करे कराए आपे ॥ Āpe kare karā▫e āpe. He Himself acts, and causes others to act. ਆਪੇ ਥਾਪਿ ਉਥਾਪੇ ਆਪੇ ॥ Āpe thāp uthāpe āpe. He Himself establishes and disestablishes. ਤੁਝ ਤੇ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਹੋਵੈ ਤੂੰ ਆਪੇ ਕਾਰੈ ਲਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੬॥ Ŧujẖ ṯe bāhar kacẖẖū na hovai ṯūʼn āpe kārai lāvaṇi▫ā. ||6|| Without You, nothing can be done. You Yourself have engaged all in their tasks. ||6|| ~SGGS Ji ang 129 Can you explain it? HE is HIMSELF the MAYA and the root of the Devatay. The Devatay and the Maya are none other than HIM! And the delusive net which is cast over the sansaar is HIS Lila! And our liberation through a Satguru is ALSO His Divine design! Nothing here is disrespecting devatay or Maya jios.

TSingh Ji, so sorry you do ot have more time, would be an amazing discussion to learn Nirmala perspective. Yes, there is Advait in Sikhi, based on Upanishadic teachings, which I was using quite a few Upanishadic references to illustrate. You are correct, this view is not on par with Goswami or Gaudiya Vaishnav as well. However, from what I understand of this series of debates between Swami Shanchayrachara and his purely Advaitist views, the Vaishnavs refer to as Mayavaadi, it was actually Mahaprabhu Caitanya who took the middle path saying there was neither a purely Advaita nor a purely Dvaita truth, rather there was a union of both ideas. To illustrate, Advaita takes the position strictly that all is Brahman. To the Vaishnav bhaktas this was abhorrent because they taught mukti was based on bhakti. The main principle teachings of Dvaitic Bhakti are Naam jap, Sankirtana, and the Mahamantar empowered by a Satguru. The perspective of Dvaita was praise of a God independent of His creation. We do in fact also see those teachings in Sikhism. Sikhism, quite independently of Vaishnav Sampradayas incorporated the Advaitic wisdom of the Upanishadic teachings of merging through self-realization with the Divine. Achintya-Bheda-abheda, while originally postulated from the Vaishnava school is a qualified dualism and a qualified non-dualism. This position teaches that God is at once independent from His creation as well as manifest within it. And I believe this is the teaching illustrated in Gurbani. We are bhaktas, devotee's, soul-brides of a Divine Beloved whom we also call Gopala, Govinda, Antarjami. This cannot be other than originating from a Goswami perspective. Nonetheless, the unity principle of Advaitic Oneness persists as a teaching. And this is why it can never be said in Sikhi that the God is separate from His creation, as would be a purely Goswami Dvaitic conception and veering closer to a pure monothesim of Abrahamic religions. The theism of the Eka is qualified, in that the infinity is incorporated into the Oneness. And that is why I have stated Sikhi philosophy is far closer to Achintya Bheda Abheda. To a strict Advaitist, you would not call the NAAMs of the God for liberation, nor practice bhakti and sankirtana. Because the God would not be accepted as other than your inner True Self. Please do make time veer ji and clarify these points.

That which the meaning is, is nirguna. We cannot grasp the infinity in the meaning. So whether we mentally remember it or not, we are understanding only in part, not as wholeness. NAAM is not diminished in any way by our lapses or by our inability to grasp the meaning within the Divine Names and/or Gurmantr. Likewise, if we interiorize the NAAM, we have in fact by mental repetition initiated a vibration of the NAAM within our minds. The spoken sound which is heard by the physical senses is the part of the Shabda which is sargun. The vibration/spanda of the Shabda is already vibrating from the Primal Naad. What's the Primal NAAD? It is the Pranava, the OM. The potency of the OM/AUM is in the Nada bindu, the point. The AUM represents the world of three gunas, as well as the three Mahadevas: Brahma-Vishnu-Mahesh. It represents the time-space dimensions of sansaara: Creation, preservation, dissolution. But the Nada bindu represents the fourth: that which is outside of and beyond time and space. The Nada bindu IS the Shabda Brahman. The Sahasrara chakra, also called the thousand-petalled lotus is located at the Dasam Duara, the opening/unfolding of which gives one the Darshan of Vaheguru. The Hamsa bird, so called because resembles the two lobes of the brain looks like a bird, the ephemeral yogic"swan." It refers also to the HamSa, or SoHam, the ancient yogic mantram, "I am HE." The Omkara is so called because it was the vibration of the Nada which gave rise to the creation. Everything that exists comes from the vibrating sound current of the NAAD, Pranava, Eka Brahman, EK OMKARA, Ek Akshara, Ekonkar. Veers, you have been making a big case that the God is Ajooni, beyond birth and Akaal, beyond time, undying. Some have said therefore, the God cannot incarnate as an avataara. Or, the God cannot be equal to His lesser lights, the devatay. Yet, in the non-dual reality, we are also an aspect which is unborn and undying. Because our existence itself is part of the veil of Maya, illusion. Because "we" are "He." So there is this artificial separation which does not philosophically exist in non-dualism. Because of the non-dual element of this philosophy it can be shown Chandi is really only Parabrahm. Just as an avatara is Parabrahm. Just as we speak the Divine Naams of Shiva, Krishna, Jaganatha Gopala, Govinda, Raam, Niranjana, and these being the names of devatay and avtaray because on the non-dual level there is no separation from Parabrahm. On the non-dual level there is no Shiva, no Krishna, no Raam, no Durga, no Devi. There is only the One. On the non-dual level there are no mirrors and no reflections, there is only Light. ਦਸਮੀ ਦਸ ਦੁਆਰ ਬਸਿ ਕੀਨੇ ॥ dhasamee dhas dhuaar bas keenae || The tenth day of the lunar cycle: Overpower the ten sensory and motor organs; ਮਨਿ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਨਾਮ ਜਪਿ ਲੀਨੇ ॥ man santhokh naam jap leenae || your mind will be content, as you chant the Naam. ਕਰਨੀ ਸੁਨੀਐ ਜਸੁ ਗੋਪਾਲ ॥ karanee suneeai jas gopaal || With your ears, hear the Praises of the Lord of the World; ਨੈਨੀ ਪੇਖਤ ਸਾਧ ਦਇਆਲ ॥ nainee paekhath saadhh dhaeiaal || with your eyes, behold the kind, Holy Saints. ~SGGS Ji ang 298 The beej/seed of all mantras is the Pranava, the OM. And the root power underlying all creation and reuniting it with Creator, is the power of Divine love which vibrates eternally beginning with the outer, grosser level of our physical being, the japa, and gradually being incorporated deeper within our minds and hearts until it becomes the Divine Light of our very own face. ਜਾਗਤੁ ਰਹੈ ਸੁ ਕਬਹੁ ਨ ਸੋਵੈ ॥ jaagath rehai s kabahu n sovai || One who remains awake, never sleeps. ਤੀਨਿ ਤਿਲੋਕ ਸਮਾਧਿ ਪਲੋਵੈ ॥ theen thilok samaadhh palovai || The three qualities and the three worlds vanish, in the state of Samaadhi. ਬੀਜ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਲੈ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਰਹੈ ॥ beej manthra lai hiradhai rehai || He takes the Beej Mantra, the Seed Mantra, and keeps it in his heart. ਮਨੂਆ ਉਲਟਿ ਸੁੰਨ ਮਹਿ ਗਹੈ ॥੫॥ manooaa oulatt sunn mehi gehai ||5|| Turning his mind away from the world, he focuses on the cosmic void of the absolute Lord. ||5|| ਜਾਗਤੁ ਰਹੈ ਨ ਅਲੀਆ ਭਾਖੈ ॥ jaagath rehai n aleeaa bhaakhai || He remains awake, and he does not lie. ਪਾਚਉ ਇੰਦ੍ਰੀ ਬਸਿ ਕਰਿ ਰਾਖੈ ॥ paacho eindhree bas kar raakhai || He keeps the five sensory organs under his control. ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸਾਖੀ ਰਾਖੈ ਚੀਤਿ ॥ gur kee saakhee raakhai cheeth || He cherishes in his consciousness the Guru's Teachings. ਮਨੁ ਤਨੁ ਅਰਪੈ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਪਰੀਤਿ ॥੬॥ man than arapai kirasan pareeth ||6|| He dedicates his mind and body to the Lord's Love. ||6|| ਕਰ ਪਲਵ ਸਾਖਾ ਬੀਚਾਰੇ ॥ kar palav saakhaa beechaarae || He considers his hands to be the leaves and branches of the tree. ਅਪਨਾ ਜਨਮੁ ਨ ਜੂਐ ਹਾਰੇ ॥ apanaa janam n jooai haarae || He does not lose his life in the gamble. ਅਸੁਰ ਨਦੀ ਕਾ ਬੰਧੈ ਮੂਲੁ ॥ asur nadhee kaa bandhhai mool || He plugs up the source of the river of evil tendencies. ਪਛਿਮ ਫੇਰਿ ਚੜਾਵੈ ਸੂਰੁ ॥ pashhim faer charraavai soor || Turning away from the west, he makes the sun rise in the east. ਅਜਰੁ ਜਰੈ ਸੁ ਨਿਝਰੁ ਝਰੈ ॥ ajar jarai s nijhar jharai || He bears the unbearable, and the drops trickle down within; ਜਗੰਨਾਥ ਸਿਉ ਗੋਸਟਿ ਕਰੈ ॥੭॥ jagannaathh sio gosatt karai ||7|| then, he speaks with the Lord of the world. ||7|| ਚਉਮੁਖ ਦੀਵਾ ਜੋਤਿ ਦੁਆਰ ॥ choumukh dheevaa joth dhuaar || The four-sided lamp illuminates the Tenth Gate. ਪਲੂ ਅਨਤ ਮੂਲੁ ਬਿਚਕਾਰਿ ॥ paloo anath mool bichakaar || The Primal Lord is at the center of the countless leaves. ਸਰਬ ਕਲਾ ਲੇ ਆਪੇ ਰਹੈ ॥ sarab kalaa lae aapae rehai || He Himself abides there with all His powers. ਮਨੁ ਮਾਣਕੁ ਰਤਨਾ ਮਹਿ ਗੁਹੈ ॥੮॥ man maanak rathanaa mehi guhai ||8|| He weaves the jewels into the pearl of the mind. ||8|| ਮਸਤਕਿ ਪਦਮੁ ਦੁਆਲੈ ਮਣੀ ॥ masathak padham dhuaalai manee || The lotus is at the forehead, and the jewels surround it. ਮਾਹਿ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣ ਧਣੀ ॥ maahi niranjan thribhavan dhhanee || Within it is the Immaculate Lord, the Master of the three worlds. ਪੰਚ ਸਬਦ ਨਿਰਮਾਇਲ ਬਾਜੇ ॥ panch sabadh niramaaeil baajae || The Panch Shabad, the five primal sounds, resound and vibrate their in their purity. ਢੁਲਕੇ ਚਵਰ ਸੰਖ ਘਨ ਗਾਜੇ ॥ dtulakae chavar sankh ghan gaajae || The chauris - the fly brushes wave, and the conch shells blare like thunder. ਦਲਿ ਮਲਿ ਦੈਤਹੁ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ॥ dhal mal dhaithahu guramukh giaan || The Gurmukh tramples the demons underfoot with his spiritual wisdom. ਬੇਣੀ ਜਾਚੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਨਾਮੁ ॥੯॥੧॥ baenee jaachai thaeraa naam ||9||1|| Baynee longs for Your Name, Lord. ||9||1|| ~SGGS Ji ang 974

The acoustics of sound of the spoken word is sargun and not lasting. The chelawill speak the Divine Name. The sound uttered is audible to theears. This is sarguna, because sound is a form. Yet, contained withinthe sound, is a sound current vibration which acts on the vrittis, thethoughts within the mind, and opens the lotus blossom ofthe heart. Here the mind takes it's cleansing bath, becausethe NAAM washes our vasanas, the tendencies we have due to past karma and bad actions. A nameis just a representation of God. But the beej syllables of mantraempowered by a Satguru IS IN FACT the EKONKAR, Eko Brahman. It is the boat of mukti because it has the power to transform us. ਅਨਹਦ ਸਬਦ ਹੋਤ ਝੁਨਕਾਰ ॥ anehadh sabadh hoth jhunakaar || The Unstruck Sound-current of the Shabad, the Word of God, resounds in that place, ਜਿਹ ਪਉੜ੍ਹ੍ਹੇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੋਪਾਲ ॥੨॥ jih pourrhae prabh sree gopaal ||2|| where the Supreme Lord God abides. ||2|| ~SGGS Ji ang 1162 ਬੀਜ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਹਰਿ ਕੀਰਤਨੁ ਗਾਉ ॥ Bīj manṯar har kīrṯan gā▫o. Sing the Kirtan of the Lord's Praises, and the Beej Mantra, the Seed Mantra. ਆਗੈ ਮਿਲੀ ਨਿਥਾਵੇ ਥਾਉ ॥ Āgai milī nithāve thā▫o. Even the homeless find a home in the world hereafter. ਗੁਰ ਪੂਰੇ ਕੀ ਚਰਣੀ ਲਾਗੁ ॥ Gur pūre kī cẖarṇī lāg. Fall at the feet of the Perfect Guru; ਜਨਮ ਜਨਮ ਕਾ ਸੋਇਆ ਜਾਗੁ ॥੧॥ Janam janam kā so▫i▫ā jāg. ||1|| you have slept for so many incarnations - wake up! ||1|| ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਾਪੁ ਜਪਲਾ ॥ Har har jāp japlā. Chant the Chant of the Lord's Name, Har, Har. ਗੁਰ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਤੇ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਵਾਸੈ ਭਉਜਲੁ ਪਾਰਿ ਪਰਲਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Gur kirpā ṯe hirḏai vāsai bẖa▫ojal pār parlā. ||1|| rahā▫o. By Guru's Grace, it shall be enshrined within your heart, and you shall cross over the terrifying world-ocean. ~SGGS Ji ang 891 The unheard sound is not perceived with the sense organs. It is called "unstruck" because nothing from the created realm has made this sound. This unheard/imperceivable sound is emanating from the higher level of nirguna, because it arises out of the Nada Brahman and is in fact coming from the Pranava, the OM. And the OM is nirguna. ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਦੀਸੈ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਪਸਾਰੁ ॥ Gurmukẖ ḏīsai barahm pasār. The Gurmukh sees God pervading everywhere. ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣੀਆਂ ਬਿਸਥਾਰੁ ॥ Gurmukẖ ṯarai guṇī▫āʼn bisthār. The Gurmukh knows that the universe is the extension of the three gunas, the three dispositions. ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਦ ਬੇਦ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ Gurmukẖ nāḏ beḏ bīcẖār. The Gurmukh reflects on the Sound-current of the Naad, and the wisdom of the Vedas. ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਰੇ ਘੋਰ ਅੰਧਾਰੁ ॥੧॥ Bin gur pūre gẖor anḏẖār. ||1|| Without the Perfect Guru, there is only pitch-black darkness. ||1|| ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਕਰਤ ਸਦਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਈਐ ॥ Mere man gur gur karaṯ saḏā sukẖ pā▫ī▫ai. O my mind, calling on the Guru, eternal peace is found. ਗੁਰ ਉਪਦੇਸਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਵਸਿਓ ਸਾਸਿ ਗਿਰਾਸਿ ਅਪਣਾ ਖਸਮੁ ਧਿਆਈਐ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Gur upḏes har hirḏai vasi▫o sās girās apṇā kẖasam ḏẖi▫ā▫ī▫ai. ||1|| rahā▫o. Following the Guru's Teachings, the Lord comes to dwell within the heart; I meditate on my Lord and Master with every breath and morsel of food. ||1||Pause|| ~SGGS JI ang 1270 What is the NAAD? Naad in Sanskrit is defined as sound, also as vibration and movement. Listen to this powerful philosophical concept spoken above! The body dies, is corruptible and caught in time and under the delusion of Maya's web. But the soul within it is the SELF who never dies! WE ourselves are both niragun and saragun. WE are both the reflection of light chidabhasa and the eternal witness kutastha Caitanya which is never corruptible, but is eternal, is Brahman Consciousness. It is the LIGHT within you, Prakash! ਊਹਾਂ ਸੂਰਜ ਨਾਹੀ ਚੰਦ ॥ oohaan sooraj naahee chandh || Neither the sun nor the moon are there, ਆਦਿ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਕਰੈ ਅਨੰਦ ॥੫॥ aadh niranjan karai anandh ||5|| but the Primal Immaculate Lord celebrates there. ||5|| ਸੋ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡਿ ਪਿੰਡਿ ਸੋ ਜਾਨੁ ॥ so brehamandd pindd so jaan || Know that He is in the universe, and in the body as well. ਮਾਨ ਸਰੋਵਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ॥ maan sarovar kar eisanaan || Take your cleansing bath in the Mansarovar Lake. ਸੋਹੰ ਸੋ ਜਾ ਕਉ ਹੈ ਜਾਪ ॥ sohan so jaa ko hai jaap || Chant ""Sohang"" - ""He is me."" ~SGGS Ji ang 1162 You see Swami ji's insightful explanation of the Mandukya Upanishad teaching that there are four arms of this reality of the Sound Current of the Primal Naad, also called in Vedas as EK AKSHARA OMKARA. The One word/sound which has created the creation. These are represented as the four arms of MahaVishnu, the All-pervading Light. The four arms represent the four states of consciousness, 3 of which are in time, material and of the three gunas. The fourth transcends that which is sargun, and is nirguna. That fourth is no longer sound which can be heard, nor slightest vibration which can be perceived. It is pureTruth, Consciousness, and Bliss beyond all perceivable forms, infinite,imperishable, undying, beyond Time. It is AKAAL. Akaal is an infinity which contains within itself even the finite, because what is finite contains the infinite self-effulgent Light covered only with the veil of illusion. The AKAAL is Itself, all-pervading the finite creation. The All-pervading Light is present in a tiny ant, as per Gurbani. The finite cannot be a limit to the infinite, because the infinite has no limits. If there could be limits to His power, He would not be infinite. It's just that in guna form, the finite can't comprehend the infinite. But pervading within, is the eternal witness, Kutastha Caitanya, reflecting as if in a mirror the brilliant light which shines in our intellectual conscious perception of life and is the chidabhasa of the jeev. But what is being reflected that our minds are mere reflections of? It is the Parabrahm. It has always been the Parabrahm. It is nothing but Parabrahm. Existence itself is the illusion, without the veil of which the creation would not exist. Duality is the illusion, what is the true reality is undying Oneness and unity. There is no such thing as Durga. There is no such thing as Kalika. There is only the One without a second, because to postulate a million devis and a million devas is only to cast a reflection in millions of mirrors of One Eternally Shining Light. ਆਪੇ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪੇ ਭੁਗਤਾ ॥ aapae karathaa aapae bhugathaa || | He Himself is the Creator, and He Himself is the Enjoyer. ਆਪੇ ਤ੍ਰਿਪਤਾ ਆਪੇ ਮੁਕਤਾ ॥ aapae thripathaa aapae mukathaa || He Himself is satisfied, and He Himself is liberated. ~SGGS Ji ang 1035 ਏਕਾ ਏਕੰਕਾਰੁ ਲਿਖਿ ਦੇਖਾਲਿਆ । aykaa aykankaaru|ikhi daykhaaliaa| By writing 1 (One) in the beginning, it has been shown that Ekankar,God, who subsumes all forms in Him is only one (and not two or three). ~Vaar 3 Pauri 15, line 1 of Vaaran Bhai Gurdas Ji "Without a cloud, there will be no rain; without rain, the trees cannot grow; and without trees, we cannot make paper. The cloud is essential for the paper to exist. If the cloud is not here, the sheet of paper cannot be here either. So we can say that the cloud and the paper inter-are." ~ Thich Nhat Hanh, Interbeing

Shakti and Brahman are inseparable entities. Maya is not an Abrahamic concept like a Shaitan. It is delusive, not evil. The evil arises from within ourselves due to our ignorance in the net of delusion. But it is God Himself who cast this net. God Himself created the form of Maya, and directs and uses Maya according to His Lila. And IS in FACT MAHAMAYA. So this is a radically different concept that some dualistic Abrahamic or Zoroastrian struggle between elements of good and evil on a celestial level. The struggle over evil is front and center within us. We can't blame it on devatay or corruptions of the material universe. Maya is a force, like gravity. It serves a purpose to keep us inbondage to the earth, without which we wouldn't have embodiment or exist within the creation. The GOD has designed it this way! ਸਦਾ ਮੁਕਤੁ ਆਪੇ ਹੈ ਸਚਾ ਆਪੇ ਅਲਖੁ ਲਖਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੪॥ Saḏā mukaṯ āpe hai sacẖā āpe alakẖ lakẖāvaṇi▫ā. ||4|| The True Lord is liberated forever. The Unseen Lord causes Himself to be seen. ਆਪੇ ਮਾਇਆ ਆਪੇ ਛਾਇਆ ॥ Āpe mā▫i▫ā āpe cẖẖā▫i▫ā. He Himself is Maya, and He Himself is the Illusion. ਆਪੇ ਮੋਹੁ ਸਭੁ ਜਗਤੁ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥ Āpe moh sabẖ jagaṯ upā▫i▫ā. He Himself has generated emotional attachment throughout the entire universe. ਆਪੇ ਗੁਣਦਾਤਾ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵੈ ਆਪੇ ਆਖਿ ਸੁਣਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੫॥ Āpe guṇḏāṯā guṇ gāvai āpe ākẖ suṇāvṇi▫ā. ||5|| He Himself is the Giver of Virtue; He Himself sings the Lord's Glorious Praises. He chants them and causes them to be heard. ਆਪੇ ਕਰੇ ਕਰਾਏ ਆਪੇ ॥ Āpe kare karā▫e āpe. He Himself acts, and causes others to act. ਆਪੇ ਥਾਪਿ ਉਥਾਪੇ ਆਪੇ ॥ Āpe thāp uthāpe āpe. He Himself establishes and disestablishes. ਤੁਝ ਤੇ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਹੋਵੈ ਤੂੰ ਆਪੇ ਕਾਰੈ ਲਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੬॥ Ŧujẖ ṯe bāhar kacẖẖū na hovai ṯūʼn āpe kārai lāvaṇi▫ā. ||6|| Without You, nothing can be done. You Yourself have engaged all in their tasks. ||6|| ਆਪੇ ਮਾਰੇ ਆਪਿ ਜੀਵਾਏ ॥ Āpe māre āp jīvā▫e. He Himself kills, and He Himself revives. ਆਪੇ ਮੇਲੇ ਮੇਲਿ ਮਿਲਾਏ ॥ Āpe mele mel milā▫e. He Himself unites us, and unites us in Union with Himself. ~SGGS Ji ang 125 According to the philosophical concept of Gurbani teaching, God is somehow also Maya. How can this be explained as other than qualified non-dualism? that the Lord is both distinct and superior to His creation, including Maya and devatay; as well as equally all-pervading the creation which represents nothing less than mere aspects of One Divine Totality both physical and finite in temporary illusive form, and quite incomprehensibly beyond form and infinite. ਆਪਹਿ ਸੁਨਤ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਜਾਸਨ ॥ aapehi sunath aap hee jaasan || He Himself listens to His Own Praises. ਆਪਨ ਆਪੁ ਆਪਹਿ ਉਪਾਇਓ ॥ aapan aap aapehi oupaaeiou || He Himself created Himself. ਆਪਹਿ ਬਾਪ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਮਾਇਓ ॥ aapehi baap aap hee maaeiou || He is His Own Father, He is His Own Mother. ਆਪਹਿ ਸੂਖਮ ਆਪਹਿ ਅਸਥੂਲਾ ॥ aapehi sookham aapehi asathhoolaa || He Himself is subtle and etheric; He Himself is manifest and obvious. ਲਖੀ ਨ ਜਾਈ ਨਾਨਕ ਲੀਲਾ ॥੧॥ lakhee n jaaee naanak leelaa ||1|| O Nanak, His wondrous play cannot be understood. ||1|| ~SGGS Ji ang 250 According to Sanatana Dharma teaching and per interpretations of Devi Mahatmya itself, there is no difference between different aspects of Devis named, all are ONE Devi. There is no distinction as to Eka Brahman and Devi. Only ONE GOD is being praised in the Upanishad in very highly symbolic and meaningful imagery. Guru Sahibaan employed scholars of the highest order. And not merely any secular scholars, but Sanskrit scholars, holy men, and Mahants. Not everyone had access to the symbolism of Devi Mahatmya. But it is ridiculous to interpret modernly from Abrahamic, Western, or Dualistic ideologies distorting a qualified non-dual philosophy. The true meaning of Devi, She is Parabrahm in manifest form according to the hidden teachings of the Mandukya Upanishad where Devi Mahatmya is found. You will find the Guru's vaak written in ink and printed on pages and bound between the covers of a book. But the Guru's vaak is certainly not the pages and not the ink anymore than the well known saying, "if you say sugar is sweet and lick the word sugar hoping to taste sweetness, you won't find sweetness." So the point is, there is a form which this sargun swaroop takes. And that is the material form of something physically accessible to us as human beings. That form is this body, the angs of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj. The Shabad-Jyot contained within the vibration of the sounds and spiritual meanings of the Guru vak attune our atma to the Divine Paramatma. Sarguna is the vehicle through which the nirgun aspect can manifest. And that is why our boat of mukti is not the pages of this printed book. HOWEVER, we absolutely do show reverence to the angs of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. KNOWING that the sargun swaroop of the Divine Presence is existing beyond the physicality as the sound current. And for this reason the Shabads, the Naam, the Gurbani kirtan, the paath we say, the Vaheguru Gurmantra are the boat of mukti and not the cover/pages. Nonetheless as WORD the DIVINE LIGHT has manifested in acomprehensible form in this world, absolutely. Just as absolutely entire Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj is GURU to bow your hairs to, cover respectfully, cremate when damaged. It is the body-form of a LIVING PRESENCE OF DIVINITY ITSELF. Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is in fact the LIVING PRESENCE OF GURU SAHIB. IT SHOULD NEVER BE SHOWN DISRESPECT OR TREATED AS A BOOK. And this is not a murthi. It is not a representation. It has transmission of Jyoti-Jyot and the Gurgaddhi. GURU GRANTH SAHIB CONTAINS THE BOAT OF MUKTI IN THE KALIYUG! No Vedas are the boat of Mukti. Because as true as Vedas may be, they are only books. You can set them on the ground. Truest Vedas are sung in perfect pronunciation. They TELL about mukti. But the boat of mukti is the Shabad-NAAM. Guru Granth Sahib is SATGURU!

chatanga1 Ji writes: I wouldn't exactly define Gurbani as consisting of "feminine" or "masculine" aspects per se. Rather Gurbani has discussed the Divine in terms including both masculine and feminine qualities. And I believe this reflects an essential and underlying unity, a harmony which was intended in the duality world of the creation itself. God is not a division, but is the union of all dual aspects equally. So it can honestly be said that God is a Father, God is a Mother. But it can never truthfully be said that God is ONLY a Father, or God is ONLY a Mother, for example. The Abrahamic religions neuter the unity and create an artificial emphasis only on masculine characteristics of the Divine, and this serves as a psychological tension in the society to alienate and dishonor the feminine qualities as something "lesser." To speak of God as only masculine and male has the effect of devaluing the holiness of the feminine Divine qualities. Quite clearly Gurbani states that God is Mata and Pita, without question. We can't make the mistake to say the God is nirguna ONLY. What does Gurbani say? It says the God is niragun AND saragun. ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਆਕਾਰ ਆਪਿ ਨਿਰਗੁਨ ਸਰਗੁਨ ਏਕ ॥ nirankaar aakaar aap niragun saragun eaek || He Himself is formless, and also formed; the One Lord is without attributes, and also with attributes. ~SGGS Ji ang 250 On the other hand, equally clearly, our relationship to the Vaheguru, whether as man or woman, is as feminine souls to a Divine Bridegroom. This also is very holy imagery and cannot be tarnished with some artificial political correctness. My point only, in commenting on this article about Devi, was to state that in the Vedantic tradition the division between the devatay and the Parabrahm are not set in stone like a Zoroastrian division. Rather, they flow into and out of one another with a qualified dualism, so that philosophically it is equally correct to discuss the Parabrahm as separate from His creation, as equally as being represented by various definable aspects in the creation itself, because everything existing in the creation is only HE Himself. Example of this philosophical concept Gurbani tuuks: ਕੀਟ ਹਸਤਿ ਮਹਿ ਪੂਰ ਸਮਾਨੇ ॥ Kīt hasaṯ mėh pūr samāne. In the ant and in the elephant, He is totally pervading. ~SGGS Ji ang 252 And this philosophical concept is also expressed in this tuuk: ਵਾਸੁਦੇਵ ਸਰਬਤ੍ਰ ਮੈ ਊਨ ਨ ਕਤਹੂ ਠਾਇ ॥ vāsuḏev sarbaṯar mai ūn na kaṯhū ṯẖā▫e. The All-pervading Lord is in all places. There is no place where He does not exist. ~SGGS Ji ang 259 "Every explicit duality is an implicit unity." ~ Alan Watts Okay, if some people want to totally invalidate this argument by making broad claim that these Gurbani tuuks don't mean what they say because they are out of context, fine. But I don't think doing an Akhand Paath of whole Gurbani is required to analyze philosophical concepts contained there. I don't believe quoting huge chunks of Gurbani will make the discussion any clearer. For purposes of a DISCUSSION about particular concepts, ideas, and teachings FROM Gurbani which different sampradayas WITHIN Gursikhi have held it is useful to isolate and clarify those. It will be easy to see what is out of context or not as the page citation is there and anyone can read entire shabad. But just making broad claim that Gurbani is out of context every single time I make reference to some tuuk or pauri is just silly. So as I understand it, Gurbani is saying the Lord Himself is presence within His creation, even in the smallest ant and there is nowhere that the great immensity and infinity of the Lord is not existing. Now these tuuks were isolated because this is an extremely POWERFUL concept. This is NOT a concept of the Lord forever separate and distinct from His creation as taught in Abrahamic faiths and philosophies. Just these little tuuks are saying as much as entire Puranas! And that is ALL I have said. That is really something amazing, another proof that Guru Sahibaan One Jyot is authentic Satguru. How rare to have such powerful insights of even Rshis in the few words of Guru. There is BEAUTY here! Extreme beauty, and incredible wisdom in even smallest vaks of Gurbani. And why is this? Because whole of Gurbani is Shabad mantara. Even the beej syllables of Guru Vakia have the POWER of GOD PRESENCE! If anyone is having physical sickness or troubles in their life, put Gurbani on your mind,on your heart, and on your lips. Now, please look at the concept I tried to isolate here. It is a form of qualified Advaita, Achintya-Bheda Abheda, that the God is both dual and distinct and equally ONE with everything that exists. So when someone interprets the Gurbani without the philosophical Vedantic or qualified Advaitic context, I feel that interpretation cannot explain these tuuks and pauris and reconcile them with a God who is always "separate." So an entire philsophical school of thought has been represented in these small tuuks. I do not believe it will be possible for anyone to refute and say this is not true teaching, or that it is taken out of context, even if you quote the whole Gurbani. Because the philosophical point is sound. MOREOVER, it is the truth underlying modern discoveries in physics. So it isn't just a philosophical speculation, there is an underlying mathematical elegance to the concept of qualified non-dualism. Of course, physics doesn't postulate such a concept as God. Nonetheless,the material universe IS understood by modern physicists as being both materiality (sarguna) which is condensed energy encapsulated into form,and pure energy which extends beyond time and space (nirguna) and even that such has a consciousness! There is a dual nature underlying the heart of all things. So there are in fact two distinct perceptions which could accurately describe the human experience. We ARE separate and distinct. And we ARE a unified ONENESS with all that is on an energetic level. This goes to the very heart of wave-particle duality. Omnia vivunt, omnia inter se conexa "Everything is alive; everything is interconnected." ~ Cicero "A human being is a part of the whole, called by us Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest--a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty."~ Albert Einstein And this philosophical point is so important,because if we keep describing the smaller spiritual Lights manifest in the world, such as devatay and avtaray as "lesser" and "separate" we are correct on one level. But we are incorrect philosophically by failing to incorporate from the non-dualism aspect. I do not believe Sikhi is a dualism like Zoroastrianism. I believe a strict and literal dualism is an erroneous interpretation and ignores Advaitic elements of nondualism. This fundamentally alters the meaning of a concept of merging with the Divine, and even changes the concept of mukti. The ULTIMATE is Mahasamadhi, final merging and losing the individual"I"ness. So on one level the devatay are separate, consist of the three gunas, etc, caught in time, finite, transient, deluded by Maya's veil and therefore unable to liberate anyone, let alone themselves. HOWEVER, on another level philosophically, all the lights are ONE, and the infinity reaches out to the world infinitely in various perceivable forms. It's not that 330 crore compete with some designated super God in a celestial one-upmanship. But that 330 crore are ONE. I do not believe, nor have I ever disputed that pujas to devatay are not a path to mukti! So why are people making this artificial argument when I have said no such thing? I believe with conviction that Naama Jap, submission to a Satguru, living the daily discipline (sadhana) of a Satguru, having deeksha/initiation is the ONLY MEANS OF MUKTI! And this is corroborated in Hindu scriptures! What is at fault here is the ERRONEOUS MISINTERPRETATION OF HINDU RELIGION, and then blaming the perceived faults of the erroneous misrepresentation as some fault of what I'm saying. Don't misrepresent my own beliefs by tacking them on to misinformed ideas about Hinduism and the various Hindu philosophies. What is puja? What makes it sinful? Is that the Christianized indoctrination that idol worship of false demonic gods is against the Abrahamic god? Because that is not Gurbani teaching. Gurbani teaching is filled with worship and praise of the Divine through the sargun NAAMS of devatay and avataray. But the boat of mukti, is Nama Jap. Of this there has never been dispute. What is problem with aarti? If the heavens and planets do aarti, what's the harm if a Hindu family does aarti in reverential awareness of the power of creation and the magnificence of the Divine? "He is one, the lord and innermost Self of all; of one form, he makes of himself many forms. To him who sees the Self revealed in his own heart belongs eternal bliss–to none else, to none else!" ~Katha Upanishad 2:2:12 If Radharani is Krishna's Hladini shakti, then Krishnas very ability to manifest spiritual ecstacy belongs to the feminine shakti aspect of His own nature. Just as His power of yogmaya comes from His aspect as Adi-Pakriti. This is teaching us that Bhagavan is a Totality reflected in emanations or aspects. But all the aspects are ONE. It doesn't matter if you call as masculine or feminine, ultimately it is all the same power from the same source. Just remember the answer to the seeming contradiction is achintya bheda abheda, "inconceivable Oneness and difference." The God is inconceivabably One and infinitely distinct. The God is all-pervading every being of His creation. Everything is ultimately He. He is the full Reality. Devi and Bhagavan are ONE.

Bhagavan Krishna is never figting with gopis. Gopala, the Lord and Protector of all the living beings in all the universes, is in love with His creation. The gopis represent individual atmas who are having a love affair with their Divine Beloved, they are true bhaktas, as should we all be. That is what is taking place in the water. And it is gopi Radha who so transcends by Her unswerving devotion, as to merge and become One with the Lover Himself. And that is what is meant by RadhaKrishna, that the Divine Beloved and the Lover are ONE. jw kY pRyim pdwrQu pweIAY qau crxI icqu lweIAY ] jaa kai paraym padaarath paa-ee-ai ta-o charnee chit laa-ee-ai. By His Love, true wealth is obtained; link your consciousness to His lotus feet. shu khY so kIjY qnu mno dIjY AYsw prmlu lweIAY ] saho kahai so keejai tan mano deejai aisaa parmal laa-ee-ai. As your Husband Lord directs, so you must act; surrender your body and mind to Him, and apply this perfume to yourself. eyv khih sohwgxI BYxy ienI bwqI shu pweIAY ]3] ayv kaheh sohaaganee bhainay inee baatee saho paa-ee-ai. ||3|| So speaks the happy soul-bride, O sister; in this way, the Husband Lord is obtained. ||3|| Awpu gvweIAY qw shu pweIAY Aauru kYsI cqurweI ] aap gavaa-ee-ai taa saho paa-ee-ai a-or kaisee chaturaa-ee. Give up your selfhood, and so obtain your Husband Lord; what other clever tricks are of any use? shu ndir kir dyKY so idnu lyKY kwmix nau iniD pweI ] saho nadar kar daykhai so din laykhai kaaman na-o niDh paa-ee. When the Husband Lord looks upon the soul-bride with His Gracious Glance, that day is historic - the bride obtains the nine treasures. Awpxy kMq ipAwrI sw sohwgix nwnk sw sBrweI ] aapnay kant pi-aaree saa sohagan naanak saa sabhraa-ee. She who is loved by her Husband Lord, is the true soul-bride; O Nanak, she is the queen of all. AYsy rMig rwqI shj kI mwqI Aihinis Bwie smwxI ] aisay rang raatee sahj kee maatee ahinis bhaa-ay samaanee. Thus she is imbued with His Love, intoxicated with delight; day and night, she is absorbed in His Love. suMdir swie srUp ibcKix khIAY sw isAwxI ]4]2]4] sundar saa-ay saroop bichkhan kahee-ai saa si-aanee. ||4||2||4|| She is beautiful, glorious and brilliant; she is known as truly wise. ||4||2||4|| ~Shabad Hazaray