BhagatSingh

Jathedar I appreciate you for bringing up all those shabads. This gives us plenty of material to work with when contemplating this issue. Those that really do want to know more will be the ones who will contemplate such things. While it's great that you quoted the Narad puran, I feel like it might create the wrong impression in readers who are not familiar with Narad and his work. Narad was a great individual who taught everyone how to do Bhagti. He was one of the very first bhagats, a very devoted and enlightened individual, he was the first one to do Bhagti. It was him who taught individuals like Dhruv and Prehlaad how to do Bhagti; Narad was their Guru! Sant Kabir says ਰਾਮ ਜਪਉ ਜੀਅ ਐਸੇ ਐਸੇ ॥ ਧ੍ਰੂ ਪ੍ਰਹਿਲਾਦ ਜਪਿਓ ਹਰਿ ਜੈਸੇ ॥੧॥ Chant Ram the way Dhruv and Prehlaad chanted it. Guru Amardas ji says ਬਾਬਾਣੀਆ ਕਹਾਣੀਆ ਪੁਤ ਸਪੁਤ ਕਰੇਨਿ ॥ Good sons read the works of their babas, the great men. (Who are these Babas, the great men?) ਜਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਭਾਵੈ ਸੁ ਮੰਨਿ ਲੈਨਿ ਸੇਈ ਕਰਮ ਕਰੇਨਿ ॥ They do what is pleasing to the satguru. ਜਾਇ ਪੁਛਹੁ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਤ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬਿਆਸ ਸੁਕ ਨਾਰਦ ਬਰਨ ਸੁਭ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟ ਕਰੇਨ। Go and consult the Smritis, Shastars, Vyas's works, Sukdev's and those of Narad, who all preached to the world (ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟ). (Answer: These great men are men like Vyas, Sukdev, Narad and those who wrote Smritis and Shatars. Why are they great?) ਸਚੈ ਲਾਏ ਸਚਿ ਲਗੇ ਸਦਾ ਸਚੁ ਸਮਾਲੇਨਿ ॥ Their preaching attaches one to the truth because they themselves are attached to the truth and those who are affected by them are forever merged with the truth. (Answer: Because they attach people to the truth.) ਨਾਨਕ ਆਏ ਸੇ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ਭਏ ਜਿ ਸਗਲੇ ਕੁਲ ਤਾਰੇਨਿ ॥੧॥ Guru Amardas ji says those are approved are those who (through bhagti) carry not only themselves but their lineage! So we know that Narad is teaching a good path. Then how shall we make sense of this shabad: Guru Nanak Dev ji says: ਹਿੰਦੂ ਮੂਲੇ ਭੂਲੇ ਅਖੁਟੀ ਜਾਂਹੀ ॥ Hindus have forgotten (ਭੂਲੇ) the essential message (ਮੂਲੇ) and have entered the wrong path. (What have they forgotten?) ਨਾਰਦਿ ਕਹਿਆ ਸਿ ਪੂਜ ਕਰਾਂਹੀ ॥ Narad told them to do pooja of Parmatma. (His puran is all about how to worship Parmatma.) (Answer: The Hindus have forgotten the essential message of Narad, that is to worship Parmatma, and they are too engrossed in the act of worshiping and do not worship Parmatma as Narad suggested through the rituals outlined in the Puran.) ਅੰਧੇ ਗੁੰਗੇ ਅੰਧ ਅੰਧਾਰੁ ॥ They are blind, mute, engrossed in darkness, in ignorance. ਪਾਥਰੁ ਲੇ ਪੂਜਹਿ ਮੁਗਧ ਗਵਾਰ ॥ They worship the stone (without worshipping Parmatma), they are fools. (They are not following Narad at all. Only when they immerse their minds in the thoughts about Parmatma can they follow the teachings of of Narad correctly.) ਓਹਿ ਜਾ ਆਪਿ ਡੁਬੇ ਤੁਮ ਕਹਾ ਤਰਣਹਾਰੁ ॥੨॥ The stone will sink, how will it keep you afloat. (What keeps you afloat? Worshipping Parmatma) Let's contemplate on this today. I will share more when time allows.

Gur dwar is mentioned in guru Granth sahib but I think the word is way older, since gurus have always been there in Indian society. I am wondering if gurus held congregations in their houses back then or was it a separate location.

Hari Mandir... makes sense. I think a gurudwara may literally refer to the guru's house, where all the sangat came to meet him.

There is no difference. The problem is that people do rituals without true feeling. When doing any ritual there has to be clarity of thought and clarity of intent (in other words, love). If that Malini, that is the central character of Sant Kabir's shalok, had any understanding, she would also see Parmatma in the branches, leaves and flowers of the tree. But she does not. When she cannot see Parmatma in all those places He resides then it follows that she is not really seeing Him in her beloved idol. So her idol is just a stone.Therefore, she only has love for a stone, and not a idol. Notice how the word pahan (stone) is used, and not Murti (idol).

Trust me, no one is looking at your replies thinking "oh! he makes excellent points using provocative language." Lol. You just sound like you've completely lost it. Like beyond repair lol. If you wana share your view, while getting at the knowledge, the truth and the understanding of different viewpoints then leave "provocative language" at home, set aside your fire and anger, put away your stupid defensiveness and come forth with an open mind. Disagree as much as you like but stick to the point and clarify your position but not without getting some clarity about the what the other person is talking about first. Anyone can sit there and argue, insult the other and put them down, and ramble on and on. But it takes a scholar to rise above such petty BS, all that clutter, to try and get to the truth. It takes a clear mind and *spaciousness* (ref: Tolle) to hold an opposing idea in the mind, to give it some thought, to undercut it and to then present those counter arguments devoid of clutter. Counter arguments that are crisp, clear, focused, where the energy of the person behind them is that of one seeking truth. Be detached from all of the mind-made stances, and discuss from a place that is deeper than the petty stances. Its now time to learn to discuss things like a gurmukh. Take a break and prepare yourself for it.

Lol no dude. You are so opposed to some idea in your head, and you have so much energy going against it that you don't see what the people who you are communicating with saying. You are essentially fighting with yourself. Relax. Do some meditations. Take a break from the forums. Focus on your school stuff. Do some translations in the meanwhile. Take your mind off the issue and let it rest.

Dally Unfortunately you have put large barriers to your own learning process, probably unknowingly, by putting those down who try debate teh point with you. You act with such hostility that the person trying to explain cannot get anything across. And then after hammering them with your insults, you think you have won the argument. This rewards your hostile behaviour and then you repeat it the next time you encounter someone else who disagrees. You are in a vicious cycle my friend. Step out of it already, or you are going to turn many people away from you and turn away knowledge itself. This is not the way of a scholar. Be detached from all views. There is wisdom everywhere, gotta be an ant to feed on it. Get what I am saying?

Common sense would dictate that you read the original post before replying to it so you don't come across sounding like an idiot in your replies.

Lol take your time bro, you can't answer these things in a hurry otherwise you miss the point.

Whether you are attracted or not doesn't mean anything. On the other hand, whether you are marrying them does. Marriage is very important because you will be living with this person, having kids with them and growing old together. You will have to work with their family and they will have to work with yours. Marriage is not only two people though, it's a coming together of families as well. Have you seen Indian marriages where the bhra/pita/chachay/tai/dada/nana from both sides come out in a ceremony and meet and greet each other and hug, and give presents. Marrying someone from the same background is usually the best because you are dealing with large families. No, not that I've heard of.

Ok I see. Look inside and see what is going on in response to those external events. What happens in the mind? While you focus on that question, I just wana say, be clear about your goal. Spell it out in clear terms and repeat them to yourself often, write it down if you need to. For me "My goal is that I wana keep my cool and create a positive state inside and a positive environment around me." Come up with a clear goal. Peace is not clear enough, you have to clarify exactly what it is you want. So my second question is, how do you define peace? (Not as a definition, but as an internal state.)

Haha that's a lot of books. Good luck with your project.

Sounds like a plan. Ps what are those books about?

You cannot change any of that. So what is simran going to accomplish for you?

Go for it. I bought Panth Prakash from them. They aer cool.

That is a good find Singh! Jathedar what are you going on about?

What does it mean to forget Waheguru? What kind of things do they do? and how do you feel when you see that?

Right on Devinder

Hang on Jaikaara. Ok I understand. What is maya? And what about it makes you feel sick of it?

You don't choose the mantra, the mantra chooses you! Lol You can try both. Try kirtan and satsang as well. Try breathing and relaxation exercises also. They all help, because they support each other. What are you sick of exactly?

Xbox One bro. Halo 5!! Titanfall! Killer Instinct! I forget the rest but I like the Xbox Exclusives are way more than PS4 ones. + Kinect 2.0, I like those kinds of games, they are great for entertaining family and guests.

Sat I have no idea what you are going through, to be honest, but if it is anything like the feeling of carrying a lot of weight on the shoulders, and feeling like utter crap inside your stomach and everywhere, then this is it bro! You are a spiritual athlete and these are the spiritual olympics! Just focus on simran. During times that becomes impossible, focus on the negative feelings. Try to clarify them through focused observation as much as possible. Try to connect with the baby as much as possible through this kind of focus. ਸਲੋਕ ਕਬੀਰ ॥ सलोक कबीर ॥ Salok Kabīr. Shalok, Kabeer: ਗਗਨ ਦਮਾਮਾ ਬਾਜਿਓ ਪਰਿਓ ਨੀਸਾਨੈ ਘਾਉ ॥ गगन दमामा बाजिओ परिओ नीसानै घाउ ॥ Gagan ḏamāmā bāji▫o pari▫o nīsānai gẖā▫o. The battle-drum beats in the sky of the mind; aim is taken, and the wound is inflicted. ਖੇਤੁ ਜੁ ਮਾਂਡਿਓ ਸੂਰਮਾ ਅਬ ਜੂਝਨ ਕੋ ਦਾਉ ॥੧॥ खेतु जु मांडिओ सूरमा अब जूझन को दाउ ॥१॥ Kẖeṯ jo māʼndi▫o sūrmā ab jūjẖan ko ḏā▫o. ||1|| The spiritual warriors enter the field of battle; now is the time to fight! ||1|| ਸੂਰਾ ਸੋ ਪਹਿਚਾਨੀਐ ਜੁ ਲਰੈ ਦੀਨ ਕੇ ਹੇਤ ॥ सूरा सो पहिचानीऐ जु लरै दीन के हेत ॥ Sūrā so pahicẖānī▫ai jo larai ḏīn ke heṯ. He alone is known as a spiritual hero, who fights in defense of religion. ਪੁਰਜਾ ਪੁਰਜਾ ਕਟਿ ਮਰੈ ਕਬਹੂ ਨ ਛਾਡੈ ਖੇਤੁ ॥੨॥੨॥ पुरजा पुरजा कटि मरै कबहू न छाडै खेतु ॥२॥२॥ Purjā purjā kat marai kabhū na cẖẖādai kẖeṯ. ||2||2|| He may be cut apart, piece by piece, but he never leaves the field of battle. ||2||2|| All the best out there my friend! PS Don't share anything with us until he is completely healthy, just focus on the battle.

N30 you are right but there is no need to lock the thread, what we need to do is start threads discussing 1 point only and stick to that point (this is where you come in). This thread has become a mess because there are a lot of points being discussed and none of them are really being clarified. Actually, the thread title is too broad. There should be more specific threads, like one discussing caste, another discussing certain spiritual principles, yet another discussing history.

Dally First of all, Congrats! Secondly, your attempts to get under my skin will... Hopefully you will rise above petty insults. Then we will discuss kshatriya and whatever else you want.

Lol