BhagatSingh

Exactly. This is why Nam Dev ji said "Hindu anna Turku kana, duha te gyani syana". He talks to a pandit who says he worships Gaytri Devi, Shiv ji and Ram ji however when prodded by Nam Dev ji, reveals that he really worships no one. So Nam Dev ji shares this anecdote to point out to the larger problem that Hindus face, which is that they are not strict to one deity. In the shabad previous to this one, he has a similar message. He instructs his followers to not worship any other deity but Ram ji as instructed by the Gita. So anyways, by choosing to finally stick to one deity and tradition this lady has made some progress on the spiritual path. That's 1 eye. The other eye is spiritual wisdom and experience of God, which is what gives the gyani the second eye. There is plenty of social support amongst Sikhs and Hindus. But smaller groups have tighter support. Similar to Hare Krishna guys and the 3HO in the west. That is probably what's happening with Christianity in India. Well that and maybe some shady stuff also that @jaikaara used to tell me about. He knows more about it.

?

That's an example of chakra meditation. You are putting your attention on the agya chakra located at the eyes.

You pronounce the sihari as you normally would. There is no special technique here. There are a lot of sassa sounds in Gurmukhi that are pronounced with sasse pair bindi. But that's besides the main point, which is that you should always pronounce Siharis when reading Guru Granth Sahib (and even Dasam Granth and Sarbloh Granth for that matter). So ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ is pronounced as Prashadi not Prashad. The sihari is pronounced on all words.

With meditation, it is all about fixating your attention on one point. So if you are doing a chakra meditation, then you pick a chakra, any chakra, and you fixate your attention on that. Your attention may wander, just reel it back in everytime. It doesn't have to be a chakra though, you could do the same with another technique. Picking 1 sensory stimulus in that technique, like the sound of Ram naam in naam simran, and fixating your attention on that.

It took a few years but I have finally figured out how to read Guru Granth Sahib correctly. While I am still in the process of learning and refining my pronunciations and developing a better flow, I have got the basics down. One of the things we are taught is that you don't pronounce Sihari ( ਿ ) and Aunkar ( ੁ ) at the end of a word. This is wrong. I used to think that sometimes you pronounce the sihari, sometimes you don't that is wrong as well. You always pronounce the Sihari. See this thread for details - Unlike Sihari, Aunkar is sometimes pronounced and sometimes not. In this thread, we'll only be covering words that end in Aunkar. Aunkar ( ੁ ) as Silent The reason why Aunkars are sometimes silent (not pronounced) is because they are used only to indicate a word that is masculine and singular. So for example, in Mool Mantra - ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ Satye naam karta purakh nirbhau nirvair akaal moorti ayooni (/ajooni) saimbhau gur prashadi. Satye, Prashadi - see the Sihari lesson linked above on why it is pronounced this way Notice how the last Aunkar in the words Naam, Purakh, Nirvair, is silent. This is because in this sentence, these words are referring to a singular, masculine subject, that is, God. Aunkars are not pronounced when it is used solely to indicate that the word is singular and masculine. Another example - ਆਦਿ ਸਚੁ ਜੁਗਾਦਿ ਸਚੁ ॥ Aadi sach yugaadi (/jugaadi) sach . Aadi, Yugaadi - see the Sihari lesson linked above on why it is pronounced this way Sach - meaning Truth is referring to the One Ultimate Truth, that is God. So in the word Sach, the last Aunkar is not pronouced. So we know Aunkar is not pronouced when it is there to indicate masculine and singular. But when is Aunkar pronounced? When Aunkar is part of the original word, then it is either pronounced. To know when to pronounced it you need to be familiar with these words. Aunkar ( ੁ ) as Short OO Aunkar is pronouced as Short OO, the sound that it normally makes, when it part of the original word. Even if the word is Masculine Singular, if the Aunkar is part of the original word, then it is pronounced. ਗੁਰੁ Pronounced as Guru Meaning Teacher. ਗੁਰੁ ਈਸਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੋਰਖੁ ਬਰਮਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਬਤੀ ਮਾਈ ॥ Guru Eshar guru gorakh Bramaa guru paarvatee mai Notice how the Aunkars on Ishar and Gorakh are silent, whereas the Aunkars on Guru are pronounced. Even though in all cases the words are Masculine Singular, the Aunkars on Guru are pronounced because the original word has an Aunkar. ਪ੍ਰਭੁ Pronounced as Prabhu. Meaning Lord. ਸਤਗੁਰਿ ਮੇਲਿ ਮਿਲਾਇਆ ਨਾਨਕ ਸੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਨਾਲਿ ॥ Satguri mele milaya Nanak so Prabhu naale Satgure, Mele, Naale - see the Sihari lesson linked above on why it is pronounced this way ਸਾਧੁ Pronounced as Sadhu. Meaning Saint. ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਮੋਹਿ ਸਾਧੁ ਮਿਲਾਇਆ ॥ Kare kripa mohe Sadhu milaya Aunkar ( ੁ ) as Short -Wa In Guru Granth Sahib, Short - Wa sound is also indicated with an Aunkar. An Aunkar is used instead of the ਵ - Wa letter. The reason for that is, Aunkar sounds very much like a Short -Wa sound. ਤਤੁ Pronounced as Tatwa. Meaning substance, core substance. ਮਿਠਤੁ ਨੀਵੀ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਗੁਣ ਚੰਗਿਆਈਆ ਤਤੁ ॥ mitthat neeveen nanaka gun changyayian Tatwa ਬਿਸੁੰਭਰ Pronounced Vishuambar, Vishwambar. ਸਿਮਰਉ ਜਾਸੁ ਬਿਸੁੰਭਰ ਏਕੈ ॥ Simarau yaash (/jaas) Vishuambar (/Bishuambar) Ekai. Part 3

That's something I will consider. But at your level of pronunciation, do you really need audio?

It took a few years but I have finally figured out how to read Guru Granth Sahib correctly. While I am still in the process of learning and refining my pronunciations and developing a better flow, I have got the basics down. One of the things we are taught is that you don't pronounce Sihari ( ਿ ) and Aunkar ( ੁ ) at the end of a word. This is wrong. I used to think that sometimes you pronounce the sihari, sometimes you don't that is wrong as well. You always pronounce the Sihari. Aunkar are sometimes pronounced and sometimes not. But in this thread, we'll only be covering words that end in Sihari. Sihari ( ਿ ) as Short I Siharis are always pronounced but how they are pronounced depends on the word. Sihari is sometimes pronounced as Short I sound. For example, in the following words, Sihari makes a short I sound - ਹਰਿ Pronouced as Hari Means God, one who steals suffering. Example tuk - ਹਰਿ ਜਨ ਬੋਲਤ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮਾ ਮਿਲਿ ਸਾਧ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਹਰਿ ਤੋਰ ॥ Hari jan bolat Shri Ram nama mile sadh sangati Hari tor . Notice that we pronounce the Siharis on Hari, Mile and Sangati. However the Sihari on Mile is different from Hari and Sangati. More on this later. ਨਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਰਿਧਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਮੇਰੈ ॥ Nidhi Siddhi Riddhi Hari Hari Hari merai . Let's do a few more examples. ਪੁਰਿ pronounced as Puri (meaning City) Example Tuk - ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਠਉਰੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਨੀ ਜਮਪੁਰਿ ਦੂਖ ਸਹਾਹਿ ॥ Bin navai tthaur n payenee Yampuri (/jampuri) dookh sahae . Notice how we don't pronouce the Aunkars on bin and tthaur. ਮੂਰਤਿ Pronounced as Moorti (meaning form). Example Tuk - ਸਹਸ ਤਵ ਨੈਨ ਨਨ ਨੈਨ ਹਹਿ ਤੋਹਿ ਕਉ ਸਹਸ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਨਨਾ ਏਕ ਤੋੁਹੀ ॥ Sehas tav nain nan nain hai tohe kou sehas Moorti nana ek tohee ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ Pronounced as Prashadi Prashad means Grace. Prashadi means through the given grace. Prashadi also means - One who gives grace. Example, Mool mantra - ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ Gur prashadi He is the Teacher, the One who gives grace. Let's do an example from the Prayer known as "Ardas". This is a good example of a hymn where all of the words that end in Sihari are pronounced as Short I sound. ਤੂ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਤੁਮ ਪਹਿ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ ॥ Toon Thakur tum peh Ardashi. ਜੀਉ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਸਭੁ ਤੇਰੀ ਰਾਸਿ ॥ Jeeu pind sabh teree Rashi. Ardashi means small Arzdasht, a small request. Rashi means property. ਤੁਮ ਮਾਤ ਪਿਤਾ ਹਮ ਬਾਰਿਕ ਤੇਰੇ ॥ Tum Maat Pita hum barik tere. ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਮਹਿ ਸੂਖ ਘਨੇਰੇ ॥ Tumri kripa meh sookh ghanere. ਕੋਇ ਨ ਜਾਨੈ ਤੁਮਰਾ ਅੰਤੁ ॥ Koe na jaanai tumra ant ਊਚੇ ਤੇ ਊਚਾ ਭਗਵੰਤ ॥ Uche te oocha Bhagwant So far so good, next up - ਸਗਲ ਸਮਗ੍ਰੀ ਤੁਮਰੈ ਸੂਤ੍ਰਿ ਧਾਰੀ ॥ Sagal samagree tumrai Sutri dharee. Sutr means "thread". Sutri is a combination of Sutr vich, meaning "in the thread". More on this later. ਤੁਮ ਤੇ ਹੋਇ ਸੁ ਆਗਿਆਕਾਰੀ ॥ Tum te hoye su agyakaree. ਤੁਮਰੀ ਗਤਿ ਮਿਤਿ ਤੁਮ ਹੀ ਜਾਨੀ ॥ Tumree Gati Miti tum hee jaanee. ਨਾਨਕ ਦਾਸ ਸਦਾ ਕੁਰਬਾਨੀ ॥੮॥੪॥ Nanak das sada kurbani. Gati means state of being and Miti means value. Sihari ( ਿ ) as Short Ya Siharis are always pronounced even if they are at the end of a word. Sometimes they are pronounced as Short Ya. In Guru Granth Sahib, Guru ji has indicated words that end in -ye (which is a short -ya sound) with a Sihari. Words like - ਸਤਿ Pronounced as Satye, meaning Truth ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਪਰਾ ਪੂਰਬਲਾ ॥ Satye naam tera para poorbla. ਸਲਿ Pronounced as Shalye, meaning wound. ਦਾਧੀਲੇ ਲੰਕਾ ਗੜੁ ਉਪਾੜੀਲੇ ਰਾਵਣ ਬਣੁ ਸਲਿ ਬਿਸਲਿ ਆਣਿ ਤੋਖੀਲੇ ਹਰੀ ॥ Dadheele Lanka gardh upardeele Ravan van Shalye Veshalye (/Beshalye) aani tokheele Haree. Sihari ( ਿ ) as Short E Some words have a Sihari at the end of the word to begin with such as Hari, Puri, Murti, Ardashi, Rashi, Gati, Miti. The Sihari is part of the Word. It is pronounced as Short I. Other words have a Sihari to indicate the -ye sound. These are words like Satye and Shalye. The Sihari is part of the Word. It is pronounced as Short Ya. But then there are those words where Sihari is added to a preexisting noun. You may pronounce these words with Short I or Short E depending on preference. ਭਗਤਿ Pronounced as Bhagti, or as Bhagte. Bhagti - a sihari is added to Bhagt to mean "related to Bhagt". Bhagt means Devotee and Bhagti means - related to devotee. Bhagti means Devotional process - Meditation. Example Tuk - ਤੇਰੀ ਭਗਤਿ ਤੇਰੀ ਭਗਤਿ ਭੰਡਾਰ ਜੀ ਭਰੇ ਬਿਅੰਤ ਬੇਅੰਤਾ ॥ Teri bhagti teri bhagti bhandar ji bhare beant beanta. Bhagte means Devotee's, belonging to Devotee. ਭਗਤਿ ਵਛਲੁ ਹਰਿ ਮਨਿ ਵਸਿਆ ਸਹਜਿ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸੋਇ ॥ Bhagte vatsal Hari mane vaseya seheje milya prabhu soe Here ਭਗਤਿ is short of ਭਗਤ ਦੇ . Seheje -> Sehej means patience. Seheje means through patience. Mane -> Man means mind. Mane means in the mind. Pronounced as Bhagte, Mane, and Seheje respectively. You will see this a lot. Noun with sihari ending, means "related to the noun". Such as - ਘਰਿ Pronounced as Ghari. Also pronounced as Ghare. Ghar - house. Ghari / Ghare - in the house. We commonly say - Sadde ghare ao. So a lot of these words ending in sihari are commonly pronounced as Short I or Short E. We should pronounce them like that when reading Guru Granth Sahib. Part 2

Koi it's not hard to read Hindi script once you get the hang of it and the words are very similar to Punjabi and Gurmukhi. So meaning can be understood without much effort. On that note, Sanskrit can be easy to learn for someone who is familiar with Punjabi and Gurmukhi since a lot of words in Punjabi and Gurmukhi come from Sanskrit. By Gurmukhi I mean the language of Gurus in Guru Granth Sahib.

Paapiman mentioned that as well. In terms of our evolution, the colour red is linked with ripe fruit. Our colour vision evolved to distinguish between red and other colours so that we could pick out the ripe fruit among all the available fruits.

^ That's the one.

^ Good point.

Yea directly, Gita is only mentioned once, Upnishad are not mentioned at all, whereas Ved, Puran, Smriti and Shastr are mentioned many times. But I wouldn't take that to mean Gita is not as important. It must be pointed out that the theological structure, the teachings, etc of Guru Granth Sahib and Bhagawad Gita are very similar if not the same. Also 'mentioned' is a weak word. Since many of the personalities that the Saints (of Guru Granth Sahib) venerated are from these books, I would say that these books were also venerated by the Saints. So when they said for examples that the Ved cannot fully comprehend Hari, they are referring to how incomprehensible and infinite Hari is that even the best spiritual texts can not fully comprehend him. Which is precisely the opposite of how some sikhs perceive these spiritual texts today.

Nope. At least not directly.

^ Guru Granth Sahib also. (for those who have issues with other granths)

Guru Gobind Singh ji quoted Guru Nanak Dev ji's arti hymn just before Krishan ji showed his viraat swaroop? Wow Singh is related to Narsingh. One could say Khalsa is Narsingh swaroop, created to protect the saints, just like how Narsingh ji came to protect his saint, Prahlaad ji. Guru Hari Gobind ji planted this seed after the martyrdom of Guru Arjun Dev ji. And Guru Gobind Singh ji nourished it into a tree.

It's not an abstract idea. It is even more fundamentally real than the physical reality. That's why Guru Arjun Dev ji says - Satya naam tera para poorbla. (Meta-)Truth is God's primal names. (Meta-)Truth when it is written in a narrative form, looks like a regular old story and then it misinterpreted as a regular old story, as you are doing here. You could ask "Is there evidence of this story actually taking place?" Well the story actually takes place all the time. It is always occurring. Varah ji is always holding up reality. He is always fighting back chaos and upholding order. You can observe him doing so as you read this post. The fact that you can experience the post and read it, means that Varah has upheld the reality. If he had not done so, then you would not have any experience, and there would be no reality. You are taking that story that is taking place all the time, and reducing it to one that only takes place once. And then you say that this above explanation (about meta-truth) does not prove that that story does not take place once. I'll concede. I'll give you that it doesn't prove it. But then again, I also think you are missing the point of the story if you are looking for physical occurrences. Anyways Coming back to Kharag Singh episode... Kavi Shyam ji has taken the character of God, Krishan ji and had him fight anther opponent. Now the question is, "is Kharag Singh a historical character?" Before we can answer that we must ask "What establishes Krishan ji as a historical character?" You'll find that we are mostly relying on texts like Bhagwat Puran, Mahabharat etc. Well the texts from which we find out about Krishan ji - ie Bhagwat Puran, Mahabharat etc, do not mention Kharag Singh. Correct me if I am wrong. Kharag Singh is also a modern name and there are also a presence of other modern names in Kavi Shyam ji's version. If you look at how massive this battle is, there is no way that it would not have been documented, when other much smaller skirmishes have been written down. That is evidence enough that Kharag Singh was a character that was created by Kavi Shaym ji. Well you could say "Kavi Shyam ji is Guru Sahib's pen name and he is all knowing. Couldn't he have brought a forgotten a historical character to the forefront?" Sure an all-knowing person could do that. But an all-knowing person could also make up a character, in order to give insights, to inspire warrior spirit or simply to entertain. An all-knowing person could also choose to not mess with previously recorded histories. We cannot prove one way or another what an all-knowing person is doing in any particular case. We have to look at other sources in order to infer what their intention is.

So the stories of God that are mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib ji ie the stories of Vishnu ji, are Meta-Truths, are Meta-History. Truths that apply to all humans and their condition are Meta-Truths. History that applies to all humans and their condition, is a Meta-History. The story of Varah ji lifting the earth, is a Meta-Truth and Meta-History. It is talking about God, as consciousness, and how it brings the world from obscurity into clarity, from non-existence to existence. Thus meditating on Varah ji, improves ones state of consciousness by improving clarity and decreasing suffering.

Yes. The stories of Shiv ji and Krishan ji are allegorical. They are both representations of God in the two major theological structures of India - Shaivism and Vaishnavism - respectively. He is fighting against Krishan ji, God, so it must be assumed that he is on the evil side. Good people don't fight against God. But he does redeem himself by recognizing that he is fighting God. So it's not a totally evil character like Hiranyakashup, who did not recognize who Narsingh ji is.

Are allegories fact or fiction?

There are as many different Kshatriya maryada as there are kshatriya groups. Khalsa is one such group.

The Saints have told us stories of God, taking on certain roles to fight tyrants. When Prahlaad ji was under torture, then Narsingh ji took a horrific form and destroyed Hiranyakashup's army and Hiranyakashup himself. The means by which Narsingh ji protected Prahlaad ji was to kill Hiranyakashup. When Sita ji was kidnapped by Ravan. Shri Ram ji waged dharam yudh, righteous war on Ravan, to rescue his wife. He had to kill Ravan to obtain Sita ji. When Arjun was in battlefield, he thought "is it right to wage war against his own family?". They had done terrible things but they were his family after all. Then Krishan ji said to him that in this moment, it is his duty to fight them. Arjun had to kill his entire family in this battle to set things straight. The Saints knew that being incapable of destructiveness does not make anyone a good person. A good person is capable of destructiveness, they are dangerous, but they channel this in a way that is for the good of everyone. Guru Gobind Singh ji was such a person and he wanted the Khalsa to be like that. PS This is related to negative emotions also. They don't go anywhere. The Saints feel fear, and sadness, however they channel that energy into their merging with God. When Saints channel sadness into merging with God, it is known as vairaag. When Saints channel fear into merging with God, then we get hymns like - Bhou khallan agni tap tao, bhanda Bhav amrit tit dhal. ghadiyai Shabd Sachi taksal. Flame the inner heat with the fear of God, use it to heat the vessel of love of God, then pour into this vessel the timeless state of consciousness. In this way, we mint the True coin.

Indeed. But how would you clarify that the - br' - sound is pronounced as - ਬ੍ਰ - and not pronounced as - ਬਰ ?

If we use double a - aa - to indicate kanna, then we should use single a - a - to indicate no matra, so it should be - Paar-Bra-Hma