Kaljug

Fateh! Perhaps it would be better simply to have one forum where people can post inspirational teachings from other religions and highlight similarities between other religions and Sikhi (the thread on Orthodox Christians maintaining beards is an excellent example of this). The thing is, even if you leave aside shariat, you will still have to answer the question of whether Sikhs believe that it was God who authored texts like the Torah, the Bible, the Quran, the Vedas, the Gitas and so on, and if so, why Sikhs do not follow the teachings contained within them. I don't think that Sikhi teaches that it was Akal Purakh speaking when the books were penned, and I believe that there is historical and internal literary evidence to suggest that the deities of the Torah, the Bible and the Quran are separate and distinct tribal Gods, i.e. Yahweh != Christ != Allah. However, I also believe that Sikhi teaches one that the followers of these various religions can attain spiritual enlightenment (or whatever you want to call it) by treating the name of these deities as the name of Nirgun Brahman. Regards, K.

Fateh! Perhaps you had better also clean up the Liber Astarte thread in the Spirit section of the forum, since Aleister Crowley was the prophet of a religion called Thelema. I hope you will also be similarly concerned about "insults" to people like L. Ron. Hubbard, Joseph Smith, Malaclypse the Younger, Anton La Vey, Master Yoda (Jedis are a religious denomination in the UK), and a whole slew of others. Or do these latter not count since you and the mods have decided that they are not prophets and that their followers are not deserving of the same respect you grant to Mohammedans? If you will not allow the discussion of the failings of the above as well as Mohamed, Jesus, Moses, Krishna, then it would be better to say so in a sticky. However that would be a form of censorship, woukd it not? You would then also have to explain why Sikhs do not follow the teachings of these prophets if they are so well-respected. Regards, K.

http://sikhsangat.org/1469/2009/06/sikh-gu...-stabbed-in-oz/ Melbourne, Australia: Racial assaults continue unchecked in Australia. On Monday, a Sikh gurdwara was vandalized in Shepparton, a small town 90km north of Melbourne. Racist graffiti and swastikas were scribbled on its walls, eggs thrown at it and the fencing around the gurdwara smashed by a car. On Tuesday, another Indian student was stabbed in the chest by a box-cutter knife on his way to college in east Melbourne. Meanwhile, Australia set up an inquiry committee to look into the attacks even as Union minister for overseas Indian affairs Vayalar Ravi said his ministry would prepare and maintain a register of all Indians studying abroad and streamline campus placements to foreign universities. Nardeep Singh, a 20-year-old from Ludhiana, was assaulted in a car park. The five attackers initially asked for cigarettes. When the student replied he was a non-smoker, they asked for money. On refusal, one of them stabbed him in the chest. Nardeep is a student of nursing at the Chisholm Technical Institute. Singh, who had arrived in Australia only a month ago, fled to the police station where his statement was recorded. He is under observation in a Melbourne hospital.

Mods: Perhaps it would be good for you to clarify what things are allowed in this forum. Is this a forum where Sikhs get to engage in Islamic apologetics since we seem to believe that Muslims are not doing a good enough job themselves, or is it a place where we can question the message of the Quran, discuss the practices that Muslims believe to be inspired by God but that we believe are not, and disseminate the truth about Islam's violent history in India in the times of our Gurus and in every other place and every other time that it has existed? If you expect Sikhs here to tiptoe around controversial topics for fear of offending Muslims who are already offended by our not being Muslims, and to only offer praise and respect for Islam, then I suggest you just close this part of the forum since I can walk into a mosque and hear these same pretty untruths from the mouth of an Imam hungry for another convert. Regards, Kaljug Singh.

LOL Just let them learn by spending a few months of arguing with the blockhead and attempting to read the long-winded word-salad that these people think constitutes an argument. I don't know why it is, but none of these Kala-Aghanis seem to be able to make a point without writing an 84 lakh word essay and using 108,000 words that are either obsolete or completely unnecessary. It's as if some poor fool has been forced to type randomly selected words from a 1920's English dictionary while sitting on the loo and trying to pass the remains of last night's extra-mirchi vindaloo. I just wonder if the sangat here will try to reinvent the wheel and invite debate from the Ram Raiyas, Dhir Malias, and maybe the Naths and Siddhas too. Hell, why not get some kurimars in on this too? Regards, K.

Fateh! If someone enters your house and starts slandering your father, it is weakness that makes you throw them out or is it respect for your parent? If you are so desperate to debate them, go do it in one of their venues. There are plenty of places they call their own. I suggest you go and find out for yourself what their beliefs are and whether they are actually looking for debate or to simply to try to undermine Dasmesh Pita's writings. Regards, K.

Matheen ji, What is the point? They are countered and they disappear; then they reappear with the same arguments again and again. They are not here to debate, they are here to spread their rubbish in the hopes that they attract new followers among the more vulnerable and less well-read readers of these forums - they know that they do not have a leg to stand on, and they are not here to change their views. The best idea would be to put up a sticky with counterproofs to their main arguments and leave these moorakhs to rot in their own stupidity. Edit: does anyone here actually expect cogent arguments and scholarly repudiations from someone who is either too lazy or too ignorant to trim his posts? Regards, K.

Fateh, Veer ji! I share your concerns. To be honest, I think the mods here are too busy trying to be politically correct and naively tolerant to the point where they allow slander of Bani and the Gurus and allow people a platform for their anti-Sikhi parchar without giving thought to the fact that it may confuse young Sikhs reading these forums. I hope they delete this moorakh, but I wouldn't hold your breath as the mods have allowed Bahadur Ali (formerly known as Bahadur Singh Nirmala and Francisco Jose Luis, and under various monikers on this forum such as Morghe Sahar, Lalleshvari, Javanmard, etc) to excrete his nonsense about Sikhi being nothing but a school of Shia Islam, that Guru Nanak Dev Ji was a Muslim and that we are all misguided idiots who need to be guided to the True Religion . He has also spread lies on his Shia forums about Nihangs using their dumalla shingar to rape Muslim women, among other truly despicable things that may result in actual bodily harm comning to Gursikhs who happen to live in the proximity of fanatical Muslims. They have banned him several times, then allowed him back as soon as the Sangat's uproar has died down, but by that point the damage has already been done. Where are the Islamic boards where a Sikh would be allowed to utter similar things against their prophet and their precious deen? Mods, if the Akal Takht has already declared these people as apostates, why are their views allowed to be aired here? Do you not feel that there are plenty of places on the internet where they have spread their filth, and that it is not too hard for a Gursikh who wants to read their ignorant writings to find them? Why give these people a platform here, in a place that is respected by follwers of the traditional schools of Sikh thought as well as the more modern? I hope you will all think hard about how much tolerance a Sikh should display and that you are able distinguish clear boundaries about what is acceptable and what is not on a SIKH forum. Regards, K.

Donchya just love those Muslims? http://sikhsangat.org/1469/2009/06/family-...malaysian-sikh/ Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia: An ethnic Indian family is fighting with Islamic authorities in Malaysia for claiming the body of a Sikh art director who allegedly converted to Islam 17 years ago The family’s lawyer said that religious authorities insisted Mohan Singh, a 41-year-old art director who died of a heart attack last Monday, had died a Muslim — a claim the family disputes. His body has been kept at the mortuary of a government hospital in central Selangor state which has refused to release the remains to the family, lawyer Rajesh Kumar told AFP. “When he died, he was a practising Sikh, he never told anybody and nobody knew that he had converted to Islam, including family and close friends. His identification card to date stated that he is still a non-Muslim,” Kumar said. “The family is very upset. All they want is to claim the body and cremate him according to the Sikh rites,” he added. The lawyer said that the Islamic authorities claimed Mohan, who had directed some local films, had converted to Islam in 1992 and was seeking confirmation of his conversion from an Islamic sharia court. “Our contention is that at the time of his death, he was still practising Sikhism and even when his mother died three years ago, he performed the last rites for the mother according to the Sikh faith,” said Kumar. “He wouldn’t be able to do so if he is a Muslim,” he said. The lawyer claimed that Mohan Singh was a practising Sikh and had gone to a Sikh temple with his sister recently. Source: AFP

Fateh! I've read much of Kala Afghana's work also, and it is as other people have already described it. He reduces Sikhi to the level of a moral code and a set of rules governing behaviour. Any hint of spirituality, mysticism, or miracles are either ignored or declared to be impossible due to science or unnacceptable due to the Guru's teachings on the rejection of superstition. His lack of any kind of spiritual practice and experience means that he completely misses the obvious message of the shabad he happens to be quoting, and it is painful and embarrassing to watch his logical contortions and verbal manipulations to tease out some kind of hidden meaning when the message would be plainly visible to even a child who has been brought up on Gurbani and Sikh history. Personally I find his reduction of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib to the level of some schoolboy textbook that can be understood by undergraduate level literary analysis and critical theory jejune and offensive. I believe that he is a closet communist and a nastik at heart. Oh yes, and his criticism of Dasam Bani makes him a moorakh. K.

First Orakzai in NWFP, now the Khyber Pass. Donchya just love those Muslims? http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-c...-agency-szh--08 Jazia tax imposed on Sikhs of Khyber Agency By Ibrahim Shinwari Wednesday, 03 Jun, 2009 | 03:54 AM PST | BARA: Lashkar-i-Islam (Army of Islam) has imposed Jazia tax on non-Muslims at the rate of Rs1,000 per year per person on Sikhs living in Bara tehsil of Khyber Agency. The decision was taken at a meeting between Lashkar-i-Islam chief Mangal Bagh and a delegation of the Sikh community held in Speen Qabar on Tuesday. Lashkar Islam chief assured the delegation that if they paid the tax they would be fully protected from any threat. About 7,000 Sikhs live in the Khyber Agency.

Ishraqi spouteth forth thusly: Nope. You are the one who questioned the validity of the source. Prove it false or quit your whining about how those evil Saudis are smearing your ayatollah. Following your argument, we would speak to Hitler's grandchildren to establish the truth of the Holocaust. Great argument indeed. It is your fellow co-religionists that are continuously obsessing about what European and American women are doing, my good man, so if it is anyone that needs supplements to balance their hormones, it is pretty much the whole of the Islamic world. I've taken enough personal insults and false accusations from you. If you cannot play by the rules, I am going to request the mods to ban you. K.

Ishraqi, he say: So your Glorious Leader gives the green light for sexual abuse of a prebuscent girl as long as her rapist does not deflower her. I'm glad you do not agree with his views. So your Glorious Leader will not hesitate in giving the thumbs up for unethical behaviour to get round those pesky sharia laws? Do you not see how repugnant and ridiculous is your defence of this fool? The late Imam (ra) put great emphasis on the dignity of women and their rights in terms of studying and the work place. His respect for women was tremendous. The biography you mention is a Saudi work created to defame him. I personally know people who have been close to him and what you're saying about him are lies! His grand daughter is probably more qualified that you to talk about him: Your link offers no proof for your claim that the biography is not true. I am not interested in reading the account of a girl who has been nrought up on the legends of her grandfather. I have a problem with some Muslim male engaging in temporary marriage with some woman with whom he wants to sleep to give religious sanction to his lust. Especially given the fact that these are the same people who are so fond of accusing Western women of being sexually promiscuous. May Shaitan-Aiwass show you the truth, K.

Thus spoke Ishraqi: And where, pray tell, is the punishment for the penalty for adultery between a Muslim man and a Muslim woman, or a Muslim man and a non-muslim woman? Gary Glitter would be pleased. Khomeini may forbid intercourse, but he encourages other forms of sexual abuse. Read the excerp in its entirety. "II. A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man, however is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine, other sexual acts such as foreplay, rubbing, kissing and sodomy is allowed. A man having intercourse with a girl younger than nine years of age has not committed a crime, but only an infraction, if the girl is not permanently damaged. If the girl, however, is permanently damaged, the man must provide for her all her life. But this girl will not count as one of the man's four permanent wives. He also is not permitted to marry the girl's sister." The reason why Imam Khomeini (ra) favoured early marriage is so as to avoid temptations when the couple reach puberty. It doesn't mean that they're going to have sex at the age of nine.Rather then young couple is to grow up in mutual love. Khomeini sanctioned paedophilia. FACT. Whatever reasons he gives for justifying his revolting acts are irrelevant. Slander would imply that the accusations are false. You can keep whining about Wahabi Saudi's corrupting your Glorious Leader's message, but in this case the text regarding his RAPE of a prebuscent child is from his own biography. I have sung no one's praises. You on the other hand are defending a paedophile and a man who sanctions the legal equivalent of prostitution in the name of religion. Regards, K.

Fateh! The quotation is one man's opinion, nothing more. It's a very old human tendency to blame supernatural forces for the acts of pure evil that some people commit, but the only thing Hitler was possessed by was the myth of Aryan superiority - he needed no demon on his left shoulder whispering evil schemes into his ear. In my opinion, the Book of the Law describes perfectly the intensification of the darkness of Kaljug that followed the Great Wars. His descriptions of the Thelemic deities Nuit, Hadit, Babalon, etc are amazingly similar to descriptions in the Hindu Tantras of Kali, Bhairava and other ugra (fierce) forms of Devatas. (The belief in Tantra is that it is easier to achieve liberation in Kalyug by worshipping these frightening forms of Devis/Devatas, and that pure Nirgun worship is not as easy as it was in earlier, more serene yugas. Meditation on Wrathful Gods in some forms of Buddhism is undertaken for similar reasons.) Anyway, we are going off topic... Regards, K.

What, you mean you can't read Farsi? ;-P I've amended the link so you can access the English library as well as a few other treats. K.

Fateh! Apparently this is the largest Iranian online library: http://iranpoliticsclub.net/library/index.htm There are some nice books on the site, some of which the site claims are currently banned by the Islamic Republic of Iran. Edit: the link above should allow you to access the library of texts in English as well as those in Persian. There are also a few other goodies on the site. Most of the interesting books are in Persian, but it's worth looking for translations of them in English on the web. You may find a few of them on rapidshare and torrent sites. Enjoy, K.

Fateh! Great smear tactic. Just accuse the sources that I showed you that provide evidence contrary to your beliefs as racist or evil Wahabism. Iran's Penal Code Sanctions rape: http://seektruthandjustice.blogspot.com/20...tions-rape.html And by the by, in Iran girls over the age of 9 and boys over the age of 16 can face the death penalty in Iran for charges like rape and murder. How, pray tell, does one determine whether a 9 year old girl consented to sex? Ayatollah Khomeini's fling with a 4 year old child: http://ibloga.blogspot.com/2007/01/ayatoll...-with-four.html Selections from the Ayatollah's writings on temporary marriages (Siqeh) and child marriages: http://iranpoliticsclub.net/islam/khomeini-sex/index.htm Not only does your spiritual leader advocate temporary marriages (from 30 minutes to 99 years according to some sources) but he believes that sodomising children is acceptable accodring to Islamic law. What need for rape if prostitution and paedophilia is all fine and dandy in Iran? Regards, K.

Fateh, Veer ji! If we use that definition rather than the common definition of demonic possession, it would imply that we are all possessed by demons to some degree. In that sense, Adolf is still no different to any other person. The point remains that there was nothing supernatural about Hitler's genocide of "undesirables" like Jews, gypsies, and coloured people. K.

Fateh! Ishraqi: I always thought Niddarists (Niddarites? Niddarims? Niddarians?) were obsessed with Sanatanism not Satanism. I'm told there is some difference. ;-) Mekhane'ch Jannat: There's no need to be so superstitious. Adolf didn't need "satanic and demonic forces" compelling him to kill Jews, his anti-Semitism and the moral laxity of his soldiers was all that was needed for the Holocaust to happen. Crowley had a pretty privileged despite being brought up among the conservative Christian Plymouth Brethren. Anyway, it's impossible to defend a personality as contradictory and complex as Crowley's. If you find his work so disturbing (and I'm assuming you have read his work not just the tabloid stories about him), it is probably not for you. Matheen: That's why I put it in the Spirit Zone not the Sikhi discussion forum. I hope you can see how the liber relates to bhakti yoga. Regards, K.

Fateh! Look up Taimur Afghani. He has a rendition of Waris Shah on youtube also. K.

Fateh! Sardara Singh is also an expert in the Doces Pares system of Escrima. I remember learning gatka in the same class as him years ago when he was just coming into Sikhi. The Singh Sahib has come a long way since then. Nice to see that he is still out there. K.

Fateh! I know the legends that surround the man - legends he was very fond of perpetuating, I might add. The Golden Dawn practiced a mixture of Masonic ceremonial, and practical thaumaturgy and mysticism inspired by Rosicrucian legend and esoteric Christianity. There was, and is (they still exist), nothing dark about what they do. Anyway, one can read the liber above without knowing who the author was as it describes the skeletal structure of Bhakti Yoga in it's most fundamental form - it can apply to God by whatever name God is known, and applies to worship of Devatas as well as Nirguna Brahman. The underlying message of the liber is that the methodology in all these forms of worship is the same. Regards, K.

Fateh! I suppose the fact that the vast majority of these rapists use Islam as the justification for their repugnant immoral acts should just be ignored because it might offend the Muslim population, right? What bothers me most is that as soon as these rapists open their mouths and betray their Islamic motivations and excuses for raping these innocent girls, the PC liberal brigade and these so-called moderate Muslims start complaining about the media exhibiting racism and anti-Islamic prejudice by revealing the nationality and religion, and the true beliefs and motives of these rapists. It seems that some people would like nothing better than to ignore the problem and hope that no one dares to question the beliefs of the ever increasing Islamic population in our midst. The connection between rape and Islam: http://www.islam-watch.org/Fjordman/Islam&Rape.htm The long historical connection between rape and Islam from the example of Muhammad: http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/femalecaptives.htm Sheikh Hilaly on rape: http://www.geocities.com/realitywithbite/hilaly.htm The Hijab and Rape: http://www.dhushara.com/book/sakina/stoningetc/hijabrape.htm Muslim rape in Sweden and Norway: http://news.ronatvan.com/2008/04/04/muslim...den-and-norway/ Western Muslims' rape spree: http://www.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=6161 Family of teen Muslim invited men to rape her: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3295487.ece Muslims threaten to capture Danish women as 'war booty' and to rape them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEYr9gwmJpE Saudi King "pardons" woman rape victim (after she receives 200 lashes and 6 months imprisonment): Saudi Sheikh: rape within marriage is impossible: If your wife refuses, Allah says beat them (according to a Qatar Sheikh): Regards, K.

Fateh! A pretty succinct description of the essential mehodology of Bhakti Yoga by Aleister Crowley: http://www.rahoorkhuit.net/library/libers/pdf/lib_0175.pdf Enjoy, K.