dalsingh101

We still aren't there yet but progress is being made in the diaspora - then we have to somehow drag those thick village dwelling retrogrades back home into the 21st century. We need a strong and vocal anti-caste momentum in the diaspora. One that the pendus back home can't ignore.

Casteist Sikhs know damn well what they are doing. Our casteism isn't the result of external manipulation. Plus you are talking pure shit about no one caring about caste here. You remind me of a white man saying "No one cares about race here in England!"

Personally, I think it's better diasporic Sikhs distance themselves from the politics back home and try and strengthen the community where they are.

Let me ask, how many murders, rapes and attacks take place back home with a heavy caste component? You going to go into denial about that now and perfectly demonstrate what we are talking about?

I think you are either ignorant of the truth here or in plain denial. Seriously, not being able to speak Panjabi would take you out of the loop with a lot of stuff that goes on in the community, so I'm not surprised your view is skewed here. And this isn't a point? Forget anthropology, having a peasant society that vehemently rejects egalitarian principles towards other Panjabis has an enormously negative effect on the panth. What you don't get is that within the Sikh quom we have a big section of farmer types who are hell bent of creating, solidifying and perpetuating a hierarchical setup with themselves at the top. In short a similar situation to what Brahmins pulled off in the past. You seem to be in straight denial about this. Ignorance again. If you could read Panjabi, you'd see that the Aryan/Scythian theories permeate post annexation Sikh literature. This was done because teh Singh Sabha lehar took those ideas on. Hell, the other day I was reading an A Level Panjabi book from The SIkh Missionary Society and there it was again, in teh section about Panjabi history. What you need to realise is that our people are one of the few mofos who still haven't thought their way out of the orientalist boxes they were put in. The ideas permeate our literature still and the imagination of many of our people. Hell, even Gurdwaras are divided along these lines. Thing is, normally you are so perceptive about such things but here you seem to stumble around totally in the dark. Maybe willful ignorance due to dissonace? (I'm not trying to insult you here by the way, so don't read it like that - truth is, when our own community behaves poorly, we often go into denial about it). I agree but try and tell that to the many morons (mostly Jatt) who've developed some sort of extreme allergy to all things 'Hindoo' which is plainly the result of colonial policy and ideas such as 'Martial races' and whatnot. Okay, so under pressure to deal with proportional representation and keep some power as a minority, our recent forefathers blindly took on (what they then perceived to be) flattering stereotypes. Which also involved rigorous moves to distance themselves from all things Hindu. That pendulum has swung to its apex now, and those of us who have taken time to study now realise that all the putting down of Hindus by the wasps as degenerate, lowly, mofos isn't truth. Anyway, get the picture right, those grand astrological, literature, linguistic achievements of ancient India were done by the dreaded Brahmins. Well maybe it was just small potatoes in some embarrassingly dirty and backward 3rd world nation which had no importance then? I grew up in it, at ground level, whitey didn't want to know about the Sikh cause - if anything they seemed to be chuffed with our downfall. You see, now open your eyes. You're crying about the that klingon shit, but think about it. The federation is 'western society' (or in this case the British) who are exploring the universe (read world) and encountering all sorts of adventures and people (including exotically coloured sexy female aliens.....) They encounter some fierce group who resist them hard, but then capitulate and then join the federation (AngloSikh wars, the annexation and events at the Indian mutiny). So now the federation has these strong, fierce klingons - who don't mind a tear up with sharp weapons) integrated into their society. These klingons then go on to play significant roles in the battles of the federation as 'stalwarts'. That klingon thing is how they see you. And the image is not one conjured out of thin air, it's based on their experiences. That's your misreading of the situation. Those anti egalitarian greedy casteists form a big majority in our society. The most important fight now is going to be internal, especially between progressive farmers and backward arse snide ones. Pick a side. See what I said earlier about how and why they perceive us this way. You're going to feel pain when [if?] you see the real state of the community, but it's only after this - when you grasp the ugly reality, that we might get some good use out of that remarkable brain of yours in terms of plans. I hope you wake up soon. You can't keep ignoring the dirt peasants are doing anymore, the way Ravidasias have walked out on that crap en mass should be a wake up call. And if you don't want to speak up for the people who peasants are trying to squash, so be it, but don't try and belittle my attempts to shine light on this majorly important issue please.

Denial is a very ugly thing and very difficult to challenge due to its very nature. We deny we are in denial..... hows about that!

I found this text fascinating. It’s an extract from an old rehatnama which is commonly referred to as the Chaupa Singh rehatnama today. The form is which this document reaches us today is not without its own complexities (like many/most Sikh manuscripts of older provenance). The stark contradictions in various rehat instructions within strongly suggest interpolations so, in its current form, it appears to be the work of more than one hand. That being said there is still a very strong possibility that some of the surviving text does actually originate from the time of dasmesh pita himself and were written by a man in a position of great responsibility and trust within the latter Sikh Gurus innermost familial circles. The reputed author of the rehat (Chaupa Singh Chibber) was a carer and teacher of Guru Gobind Singh during his childhood. Whether the extract below accurately reflects events in Guru ji’s darbar is a matter requiring further research, however this doesn’t diminish its value – especially as the topic it covers (inter-caste marriages) is one that is very pertinent to the community today. The picture it broadly paints of Guru ji’s darbar is one where certain Sikhs appear to have distinct roles (preaching and scribal activity are highlighted) within. It appears to depict some interaction between the Sikh sangat and members of the personal retinue or of Guru ji. There are the muktay (liberated) Singhs who take on the role of teaching Sikh precepts to the wider sangat and then there are those referred to as ‘musdee’ Sikhs. The word ‘musdee’ in Punjabi Universities Punjabi-English Dictionary is translated as ‘clerk, scribe or writer.’ It’s well established that Guru ji was a patron of literature and poetry (as well as being a prolific writer himself), and we need to understand that writers or scribes would commonly be hired for activities such as copying and transcribing hukamnamas, preparing copies of prayers, as well as the poetry, composed at the Sikh court. Other functions may have included keeping ledgers and accounts of financial transactions. Such people are the ones most probably being referred to as the musdee Sikhs here? As ever, any comments towards improving the brief translation are welcome. The text is taken from Piara Singh Padam's book Rehitnamay and I have added speech and question marks to help make reading easier, generally adapting the form employed by Amritpal Singh 'Amrit' on his blog. Enjoy. Further reading in Panjabi can be found at: http://www.amritworld.com/pbi/commentary/rahat_chaupasingh/writer_of_rbcs.pdf

Whilst I know damn well that whitey likes to hide their dirt in a major way, truth be told, I think we have that thing going on in our own society too - especially along caste lines. I think denial seems to be an inbuilt feature of societies in power over those who are not. It is very subtle but always at work, effecting people's behavior. I mean look at how racism no longer gets talked about in the UK because the indigenous people go mental when you bring it up. This has a long precendent, like how a green eyed, married slave owner would have half caste green eyed children born to slave women on his plantation and his wife would pretend nothing unusual had happened, or blame the slave for being a temptress.

What about our own fantasies? Most of the 'angry peasants' believe they come from outside of Panjab anyways (Scythia, Ukraine or wherever else whiteys put in their heads) - and boy do they pride themselves on it. That is a significant plank of their ignorance towards other Panjabis, seeing themselves as conquering outsiders. Truth is that all of the great cultural things you speak about comes from ancient Indic society. The peasant masses don't imagine themselves to be a part of that heritage (hence the schizio behaviour to all things considered Hindoo). Well, we should ask why. By the way. Those Panjabi films in the 80s regularly portrayed Hindu money lenders as weak, sneaky conniving mofos...our people never said a peak about this. But I do get what you are saying. Why do our people not show the willful ignorance to outsiders as commonly demonstrated by others? Is it lack of confidence? Are we just plain 'too soft' ? I find the playing up to the stereotype of loyal docile Sikh sepoy and ass kissing Brit neo-imperial institutes at many UK SIngh Sabha Gurdwaras infinitely more demeaning - not to mention dangerous. Over 60% of our community comes from farmer stock - giving us a strongly 'peasant flavour'.

Very interesting article on the Stephen Lawrence case http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/brian-cathcart-the-killing-of-stephen-lawrence-ended-britains-denial-about-racism-6284484.html

And their darn pickanick baskets!

Yeah, but the truth is that we do have plenty of the above in our society.

Brothers and sisters! We are being jacked!

I agree that cultures (like language) change as you describe. But in reality aspects of Panjabi culture (as perceived by Sikhs) IS sometimes responsible for reprehensible crap in our society. As for our people changing - they seem to have lost that dynamic streak for a crusty conservative one these days and aren't even smart enough to identify positive progressive from backward destructiveness.....welcome to the mad world of Panjabi Sikhs! lol It must be twelve o'clock or something?

He was born in the 'black hole' of Calcutta! lol

Yeah that bit made me proper laugh. Gur High! lol!!

This guy is interesting. In a way he is almost like an exact opposite of the typical Panjabi Sikh who has grown up in the west (by which I mean here is a westerner who has been exposed to Sikh and Panjabi culture like we have been to 'pucchmee subyachaar').

Took a bunch of images of a book or two with the £30 Fujifilm digital camera I treated myself too for Xmas. Now want to know how to create pdfs with them all (without buy Adobe Acrobat - too skint right now!) Can anyone help? Is there some freeare software you know of that can do the business?

That's so true. Though it does seem a bit 'soulless.

Interesting video:

Thanks bhen ji. I think I'm beginning to get it now ( a bit!)

What has this got to do with my point that our own people are purposefully rewriting our history and in denial about practices that took place by respectable Singhs? Plus why have they been made out to be these weird puritan type characters in our modern narratives, when they so patently were not! I'm not saying we should all go out and get stoned on cannabis or start to behead goats in our back yards as a consequence of our history rather that we should face it and not hide it or make excuses for it.

Point is Paks seem to retain their heritage language (be this Panjabi or Urdu or Pashtu) better than apnay. Overall, we are generally lax about matters of transmitting faith and heritage in our quom. Which is ironic because (as the video states) the SIkh community has done more to develop the Panjabi language than anyone else? The simple truth is that we generally prioritise economic progression over these things at ground level.