dalsingh101

Don't know about that. I've seen a few goray Sikh converts make statements that before they became Sikhs, they believed and practiced a lot of what they later discovered to be Sikhi. The way it appears to me is that humans generally seem weak and corruptible with the 5 vices (me included). When we mix with people in corporate religion, we witness this and it often corrupts the purity of the religious experience. Examples are being exposed to squabbling over dogma, corruption of Gurdwara committees, general hypocrisy, gossiping and bullshit politics at the Gurdwara. We we face this it can effect the personal religious experience detrimentally and give one a feeling of a charade taking place. Sometimes our own actions can make us feel this way! But thankfully (to me) a large measure of Sikhi is personal and individual (the praying and naam simran), so one can easily transcend the external human tainting - as for our own flaws, that's another matter..... Some people have little choice when confronted with a corrupted corporate religion. I think it is better to sincerely believe in and worship God without religion (AND living ethically), than not to believe.

On the one hand, individual, personalised religion can help us avoid the more negative aspects associated with organised religion, but on the other, organised religion can also facilitate a powerful platform for people, especially when it comes to fighting oppression against heavy odds or trying to alter society for the better. Of course this can be abused to.

Early this morning an attempted burglary at Gurdwara Dasmesh Darbar, Eastham (East London) was foiled when the perpetrators were disturbed by the sangat. They seemed to have been in the act of trying to force open the door of a property that led to the main Gurdwara complex. After being seen, they quickly left the scene. This incident took place around 4.15 this morning. The suspects are described as black and a police report has been filed. Perhaps this is a good time to review security measures across our Gurdwaras? We have lessons to learn from the recent Bow Gurdwara incident, where the complex was burnt to ground.

I don't know what people will make of this paper. It's pretty academic (I needed the online dictionary a good few times!) but quite short for these type of things. The subjects broached are of interest to me on a number of levels, especially in terms of the perceived influence of the colonisers and their ideas on interpretations of Sikhi. The author gives his opinions on the transformations he believes took place portraying Bhai Vir Singh in quite a critical light. I don't know what his big point is? That Sikhs interpreted Sikhi differently after colonisation due to the introduction of western ideas and classification? I don't get his argument? It almost excludes the possibility that the purported new approaches (referred to as hermeneutics) that were applied to bani actually helped distill the essence? His observations regarding the inherent difficulties with Macauliffe's translations are interesting but something that would afflict every translation of any religious material if not every translation of any material of any depth! I understand that the dominant form of 'Sikh theology' we have today has been decontextualised from a direct Indic context to one mediated by western post enlightment moorings, I wonder what the implications of this is for us? I put it up for anyone interested: http://www.scribd.com/doc/30285195/The-emergence-of-modern-Sikh-theology%E2%80%99

Sarbat's gone bonkers. Needs help. Can't seem to stop swamping forum with posts about Islam? Do your parents know about it? Seriously though: Empty your mind for a bit, do deep breathing simran for 5 minutes. It will help clear your head.

That is chumcha talk. Do you know how much land goray sit in right now without giving respect to the people who were there before them?? You should try reading more. Examples are America, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, until recently India and large swathes of Africa too. This isn't our business, the same way the goray here haven't made the Indian government killing Sikhs their own business. Are you a chumcha scared type person? You certainly sound like it?

The truth is that we don't have any real idea of his (Bin laden) personal attitude towards Sikhs/Sikhi. I'm not saying it was necessarily positive but unquestioningly buying into the whole 'infidel hating Sullah primitive' caricature of him pumped out by goray is dumbass for a variety of reasons. Maybe this image was a reflection of reality? Maybe reality was more complex than that? Who knows. This isn't showing sympathy for any side before anyone jumps in with that. Just trying to keep aloof from the narrative pumped out for the masses of sheep out there.

Does anyone know sarbhat's background? Is he a Panjabi Sikh? I honestly think a gasket has blown in his mind recently. Seriously.

I don't know what jatts have to do with any of this but seriously, you need to just stop jumping on a side in this. Just let it go, we've got our own issues and battles to deal with. Otherwise you just become another dumb Sikh in the middle of something beyond his understanding.

Now you are just being dramatic. What's wrong with our people?

All the talk on the forum about the need to keep our noses out of this business and you come out with something like that....... Pissing on someone's grave is no big thing veer.

It's almost as if you're posting every last youtube video on the subject. Has your brain managed to make some coherent sense of all this information you are exposing it to? Or has it become fevered? Have you come to any conclusions yet?

ਬਣਤਰ construction? design?

No offense but a cog seems to have gotten loose in his head? Whilst I understand (and even admire to an extent) the strong drive to pursue a thread of thought to a conclusion, his posts of late seem to be bordering on the obsessional?

Is sarbat on the path to conversion?

Any ideas for this baby? ਖਾਸ ਤੌਰ and this one with the elusive ਝ ਵਾਂਝਿਆ

I get you and share your sentiments. That being said, when translating one sometimes has to use the lexicon that readers will understand relating to their own knowledge. 'Scripture' could never encompass what I personally believe bani to be. I imagine it's the same for many Sikhs.

I find it difficult to grasp how the day the Khalsa were inaugurated, is referred to as the day they were decorated? Can someone explain? I should have figured that one out. Got confused with ਸਬੂਤ. lol

I personally couldn't give a toss what whites think myself. But those brothers glorifying him are dense. That being said. I believe OBL has become a symbol of resistance to white/western global political and cultural domination. This isn't only to sullay. I've heard LOTS of black nonMuslim people mention him along those lines. Believe it or not, a lot of people seem tired of white pseudo-imperialism and they don't seem to view sullay like we do (probably down to our historical experiences). Make of it what you will. I agree with it. We have one rule for them another for everyone else.

Hows about ਸਾਬਤ ਕਰਦਾ ?

Why the hell would any Sikh consider him a hero? To me comparing him to sant ji is apples and pears. The differences are endless. Just because they look the same to whites, doesn't mean we should by into their comparison. That externally based evaluation of sant ji was even taking place in his life time. I'm sure you've watched that interview with that American guy who outright asks him if he is the 'Sikh Khomeini'. If you watch carefully, sant ji seems startled by the very question and says that there is no comparison because he is a Muslim and I am a Sikh. But that being said, on a political and cultural perspective, I don't think any ideology should dominate. In that capacity it is arguable that the Islamist gundh plays a role in keeping the more adventurist white/western imperialism in check. However small/great that check is. In all of this we should be looking at ways to strengthen our own positions without resorting to arse licking anyone. You say that, but I think they always planned to fully subvert/dominate us too. But obviously they don't need weapons to do this with us. If anything we got a bit of a breather whilst they deal with sullay.

Anyone have a direct equivalent for ਸਜਾਣ? here is a context ‘ਖਾਲਸਾ’ ਸਜਾਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਦਿਨ

Sant ji died leading by example, courting shaheedi - not hiding, that is a big difference. As to your other point. I have a feeling that certain types are going to equate practising Sikhs with sullay in the US regardless.