dalsingh101

Sometimes it seems as if we are afflicted with more of these types than other nonwhite quoms? Both male and female variants. When I read stuff like this from apnay (from another forum) I really do despair!

You're not going to paradise you infidel snatan dog! lol Suddenly I'm overcome with a feeling of foreboding and dread..........

That site is weird anyway. On a number of occasions they've added extra lines to comments I've made and subtly edited others. They were the ones who celebrated and defended Niki Haley despite her leaving the faith (and joining the US Republicans!) This just all goes back to that inferiority complex towards goray too many apnay have.

What is a "desi gaa"?

Funny! Warning: Some swearing in clip.

Thanks for sharing!

What if someone preferred the 'experienced' to this? Does that get catered for as well?

I picked up a very interesting book called ‘Indian voices of the great war: Soldiers’ letters, 1914-18’ by David Omissi, who works at the University of Hull (Dept. of History and Centre for Indian Studies). It contains the contents of letters sent by (and to) soldiers from the then undivided Indian subcontinent during the first world war. These have been translated in English from the original languages/scripts in which they were transcribed (mainly Gurmukhi, Urdu, Hindi with some other occasional variations like Bengali). These letters are extant because the texts passed through British censorship, which was concerned with (and keeping an eye open for) potential disaffection amongst the Indian soldiery at the time. The book is useful as a tool to help us understand the motivations and concerns of the soldiers involved. The letters are presented chronologically by date and there are 657 in total, being of varying lengths and from soldiers of diverse backgrounds. It is not uncommon to hear lamentation that whilst we have plenty of white soldiers accounts relating to this conflict, we don’t have corresponding texts written from the perspectives of the brown men that were present. The book helps fill this gap to an extent. The following is based on its introductory essay which (amongst other things), describes the nature of recruitment at the time. This may (at least partially) help explain the aforementioned scarcity of narratives from the brown side: “How were the letters written? It is clear some men wrote or addressed their own letters, but the vast majority of letters were probably written by scribes on behalf of their senders, since most Indian Army soldiers were illiterate. In the Punjab at this time no more than 5 percent of the population could read; among rural military communities, however literacy was would have been very much less, since the British deliberately recruited from the least educated segments of the rural population, who were thus least effected by ‘dangerous’ Western political ideas. Indeed, some of the letters contain explicit references to the ‘writer’s’ own illiteracy, while others refer to scribes.” A wounded soldier dictating a letter. Whilst it must be borne in mind that certain restraining factors would have influenced what was being divulged in these communications (awareness of censorship being an obvious factor), they still provide valuable insights into the thoughts and situations of the soldiers even with these limitations. Some of the letters that were sent by soldiers were indeed ‘suppressed’ by the censors and the criteria for the said suppression included: “incitements to crime, and even murder; accounts of sex with white women, which were seen as damaging to white prestige; particularly distressing letters from men who had been badly disabled by wounds; letters which were flagrantly dishonest, mentioned drugs or included slighting references to whites; and accounts from prisoners of war of receiving good treatment from Germans, which might have encouraged desertion. In each case, either the offending passage was deleted or the offending passage was deleted or the entire letter was destroyed.” The picture emerging from the self referencing included in texts reveals communities conspicuously stratified along both religious and caste lines. When we consider the impact of the by then firmly entrenched ‘martial races theory’ used by the British to categorise and organise the soldiers of the ‘jewel of the crown’, it’s difficult to tell just how far these identity constructs were truly reflective of pre-colonial self-identifications (that had carried over from that time) or whether the policies introduced by the imperial administration played a large part in moulding the self perceptions? The opportunity is open for future research to delve into this matter through comparison with pre annexation texts, which could prove useful in trying to establish earlier Khalsa attitudes towards this now thorny issue and how exogenous British ideas may have altered the previously prevailing perceptions. In theory, this could help shed some light onto the argument that British policies influenced the nature of the caste system as existent amongst Panjabi Sikhs today. A general pattern emerges from the letters with the exhilaration exhibited prior to battles and immediately after early conflicts giving way to ‘sighs of resignation’ and ‘despair’ as time progressed. Interestingly the narrator of the book mentions that only the Mahsuds (a Pathan people of NWFP) seem to have been unaffected in this way. Some letters later give warnings to relatives and friends to stay away from the war and avoid enlisting. Not surprisingly the cold European weather seemed to have a particular effect in lowering morale. It is suggested that this was the cause for eventually removing infantry soldiers from this front and redeploying them to the more familiar climes of the Middle East. Those that did remain in Europe where attached to the cavalry it seems and saw significantly less intense action than their infantry compatriots had previously. This coupled with the fact that instructions were explicitly given by commanders to discourage writing what could be deemed as despondent, means that the accounts in later letters do not contain as many despair tinged references as before. This was, of course, the dawn of modern mechanised warfare as we know it today, characterised by remote mass destruction; something that would have come as a shock to even previously battle hardened foot soldiers. Whilst Muslims equated the battles to Karbala, Hindus used the analogy of Mahabharat to describe the mass carnage they were witnessing. Interestingly Sikhs had no such previous conflict which they used in similar comparative terms. Some letters acknowledge the receipt of religious material such as Korans and the Guru Granth Sahib. As could be expected, faith played a big part in the lives of those facing death on a constant basis. It would however be a mistake to think of these soldiers in strictly puritan terms and mention is made of a certain erosion of ‘religious orthodoxies’. Some letters make brief references to sexual relationships between the soldiers and the indigenous females of Europe for instance. As could be expected after the earlier experience of the mutiny, the imperial hierarchy were keen to avoid a repetition of such a scenario and strove to meet the religious dietary requirements of the soldiers. A photo of Sikhs dispatching some goats’ jhatka style is provided (see attachment to post). Interestingly, Sikhs and Hindus shared a common space for slaughtering animals, whilst Muslims had their own separate location. The matter of later recruitment in Panjab is touched upon and it appears as if there were some difficulties in this area. The book describes the scenario (somewhat shockingly) as follows: “From the autumn of 1916, various forms of coercion were also used to secure recruits. The Government of India discussed conscription, but preferred to employ informal methods of compulsion, especially in Punjab. For example, Indian officials were told to produce a given quota of men on pain of losing their posts if they failed. Some men were simply kidnapped, or their womenfolk held hostage until the men enlisted. After the war, the authoritarian Governor of the Punjab, Michael O’Dwyer, was even accused of using ‘terrorist methods’ to find recruits. He fought and won a libel case over the phrase, but there remained no doubt that forcible recruitment was widely resented.“ Michael O'Dwyer (Note that the aforementioned General O’Dwyer was later assassinated by Udham Singh in London in 1940 in retaliation for the Jallianwala Bagh massacre). Overall the book is invaluable for those interested in Indian involvement in the first world war and helps shed light onto many aspects of the conflict in relation to the people who traveled to a far off continent to fight in a foreign war. It provides a thought provoking window into the relationship between the colonised and the colonisers.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/8430899/David-Cameron-Britain-caused-many-of-the-worlds-problems.html

I believe that people can 'overstretch' with the thinking and see links where none exist. I don't think Banda Singh's period was marked by literature production, rather it was a period of hardcore war. Baba Deep Singh is told to have produced copies of granths and taught reading (and was most likely involved in arth). I heard there was also an Arabic script version of the granth produced under him. However I'm not sure if any steek/commentaries were produced by them though? Maybe the explanation was was done orally? Seeing as DDT claim to still have Baba Deep Singh's personal gutka in their possession, I think any written commentary from them was also likely to have survived - if it existed. Although we can't fully discount the possibility that something did exist, I think lack of any surviving material or even mention of such material (to my knowledge), suggests that written commentaries weren't produced. I think it is dangerous to produce theories that link faiths in the way you have done, because the Raja Janak thing shows us how easily and quickly they can become accepted, even if they are not based on any sound source. I mean comparing images created many centuries later is a stark example of tenuous linkage. Before we do this, we owe it to ourselves to try and get an understanding of our own faith to some depth first in my opinion. And if we do subsequently engage in comparative exercises with other beliefs/faiths we should do so in a grounded manner, lest the whole exercise simply becomes 'a flight of fancy'.

I think that what brother sarbat is doing is reaching out to other beliefs/faiths because he may feel a degree of isolation (for some reason) in Sikhi. You see this regularly being done (by apnay), when some people try to find links between faiths on the most tenuous of basis in a desire to bring about a feeling of oneness. Although the sentiment might be noble it can also lead to serious misconceptions if not tempered. What is happening here is a very fascinating phenomena though. It probably models the first few steps that were taken centuries ago when someone similarly linked Baba Nanak to Raja Janak.

Sarbat I don't know what you are talking about. I don't think these guys misinterpret their history/ the koran, they just take a very literalist approach to it. That's just one way of many in trying to understand it. I hope your not one of those EDL sympathising tuttay? Anyway, I'm expected a certain individual to come here any minute and pump out his sycophantic western apologism any moment now.

Is this literacy rate still based on a minimum of being able to write your name as opposed to having to use a thumb print as you mentioned earlier?

Bro, you should use fullstops and paragraphs and commas to help break up your ideas. Otherwise it just seems to be a 'splurge' of consciousness, which can be very difficult to follow.

Just don't underestimate them. They have more numbers than many would imagine. I'm not saying they represent a majority but they are committed and frankly, a lot of them aren't pussies either. Whilst there is no need for apnay to crap their pants (like an average EDL supporting dolt), resisting the temptation to scoff superciliously at them is a smart move too.

Now I'm not claiming this reflects mainstream Muslim views. But that being said, the group(s) that produce this kind of stuff do seem to have noticeable support around here. I thought it would be interesting to share this for the sake of expanding our intelligence on what other people are up to and how they view the current flux in the middle east. Can we clearly classify this as wahhabist?

India: A corrupt dynasty or democracy? Manmohan Singh, India's prime minister, has expressed concerns about the "future of India's parliamentary democracy" amid a flood of corruption allegations in the political system [EPA] Is corruption crippling India? At first glance, such a question seems absurd. After all, India has had a functioning democratic order since before 1947, and its economy weathered the recent global economic crisis when most others faltered. Yet a combination of factors that have mushroomed over time has raised serious concerns about the threat that corruption poses to the very fabric of the Indian state. Of course India is not experiencing any Arab-style "youth quakes" in response to the current corruption scandal plaguing the Congress Party-led government, nor is it likely to do so. India's economy continues its robust 8.5-9 per cent annual GDP growth, a figure that is the envy of many. Competitive elections are routine. But disparity and discontent are rising, driven in part by food-price inflation, which recently topped 20 per cent year on year. Indeed wholesale inflation now stands at more than 9 per cent. Manufacturing growth has turned sluggish, and the fiscal deficit has risen above 5 per cent of GDP, gravely straining the economy. As a result, inward foreign direct investment has slowed and interest rates are climbing. Moreover, almost one-third of the country's administrative districts are now affected by extreme left-wing "Maoist" violence. Externally, India's immediate neighbourhood, with Pakistan teetering, is more disturbed than ever. Concerns over 'future of democracy' But, on top of all these woes sits corruption, crippling all the organs of state and reaching into its highest offices. Throughout the Indian parliament's recent winter session, the opposition (I am a leader of its largest party, the BJP) demanded a Joint Parliamentary Committee (JPC) to enquire into a seemingly endless series of public scandals. The government, however, would not concede on this point, and the opposition refused to relent. The outcome was paralysis: an entire session of the parliament ended with not a single item of legislative, governmental, or other business completed. This unprecedented impasse led many to wonder whether it portends even worse political immobility to come. Indeed, during the standoff, prime minister Manmohan Singh, returning from a G20 meeting, expressed concerns about the "future of India's parliamentary democracy". Singh's dire pronouncement was most likely born of the unhappy ending to the parliament's session. But it was also the consequence of scandalous misconduct at India's telecommunications ministry where some $30 billion may have been syphoned off through corrupt practises, gross mismanagement of the Commonwealth games, and many other instances of governmental corruption. The opposition demand for a JPC to examine corruption required real leadership from the government. Alas, none was forthcoming. But what the government rejected in the last parliamentary session has been conceded in the current one, owing to mounting public pressure. This delay was both shabby and unwise. At the heart of any functioning democratic order must be a firm regard for the rule of law. When this is absent, political and economic troubles fill the void. That is India's situation today, as many high officials display wilful disregard for the letter of the law and flaunt their defiance of its spirit. Their corruption is debilitating not only India's parliament, but its democracy as well. The plague of 'dynasticism' Perhaps corruption has gained the upper hand because India's system for redressing grievances has become so sluggish. Indians also seem to be losing regard for each other; they are abandoning the sense of fellowship that marked the country's earlier years of struggle. But, without a fundamental sense of solidarity with one's fellow citizens, no parliamentary democracy can function. There is also a growing sense that India has forgotten how to accommodate dissent, that alternative viewpoints are considered entirely irrelevant. As a result, the government views disagreement as a "disservice", a rebellious challenge that must be crushed. The tone, tenor, and content of the language with which the government addresses the opposition, and vice versa, has become ritualised, patronisingly rejectionist, emptied of the spirit of parliamentary democracy. Courtesy towards and accommodation of opposing views are treated as signs of weakness. In such an atmosphere of contempt for opposition, corruption grows and festers. And it is corruption, combined with a loss of accountability, that is eroding the checks and balances of India's democratic order. As a result, what remains of representative institutions is an empty shell of residual decision-making, with bribery being the only real conversation of government. The "dynasticism" that has taken such a firm grip on much of Indian politics plays a large role in fostering corruption. After all, inherited political power is the very antithesis of democracy because accountability is no part of it. And when accountability is absent, both the cunning and the aggrieved feel that they must turn to corrupt means to make their concerns known. Preserving hereditary privileges invariably means that rules and governmental processes get bent, if not made wholly subservient to dynastic concerns. Today, all of India is paying the price. Jaswant Singh, a former Indian finance minister, foreign minister, and defence minister, is the author of Jinnah: India – Partition – Independence.

Nice to have good news for a change.

As much as I love it, I have to ask, in real terms, how much difference has it made to corruption/human rights abuses taking place? India can still act nonchalant about the mass murder of its civilians. The west still engages in dubious, selective vigilantism (Libya). Sometimes it seems as if we've become so accustomed to it that we now accept living in a web of lies. So much goes on that we know does NOT correspond to what government agencies represent to us, yet we still live our lives under a constant shadow of fake bullshit. That being said (and I've said this before), we are in a better position with modern technology. At least we can have a better idea of what is going on out there. Just think back to how people used to have to surreptitiously take pictures of dead kharkoos and 'encounter' victims and then have to smuggle them out to the west at further great risk. I've always thought that had the technology of today been around then, 1984 and the subsequent period is likely to have gone very differently to how it did.

Well maybe it's time to stop approaching the matter like an auction then? Well, seeing as the foeticide problem is strongest back home, why not empower yourselves to deal with it and not blame nris for it?

Did anyone else think that the white guy she took to Panjab with her was a real life 'Shrek'? Anyway, you got another day or so to watch it if you haven't. Personally I think that maybe the fact that her daughter is marrying into an 'asian' (I think Sikh) family is a big factor in her wanting to reconnect to her family/roots myself. Probably will feel a way with pure white people turning up as guests at her daughters viah? At least she reconnected with Harmandir Sahib. Let's hope she calms down now.

Found this gem by BG (V6,P3): MK defines ਸੰਝ as: ਸੰਧ੍ਯਾ. ਸੂਰਜ ਛਿਪਣ ਦਾ ਵੇਲਾ. ਸ਼੍ਯਾਮ. ਆਥਣ.

Can you appreciate how backwards this all seems to someone whose grown up in the west? Again, I notice Indians by nature, just accept whatever shit happens around them as inevitable, no matter how messed up it is. This is a mindset problem (at least partially).