dalsingh101

I've known a good few converts in London, who converted many years ago. None of them have left the faith. It is a very warm and welcoming one for converts. That is undeniable.

I think there is an inherent political and/or cultural statement in following Islam that wouldn't be the case with the eastern religions. Like say a black man converting to Islam who is partially impacted by his own family history of enslavement. Or a white women rejecting the west like in the OP. Thing with Islam is that it has successfully positioned itself against the west. This probably has some antecedents from the crusade period. The eastern religions do not have this 'bite' and operate within the western system. They offer (at best) an alternative experience within it, whilst orthodox Islam offers an alternative experience outside of it. Plus maintaining your independence in the face of the relentless drive of western assimilation is impressive. I'm no fan of Islam but its ability to do this does impress me considerably. Respect where it is due in my opinion. Islam has already got centuries of experience assimilating many cultures within it. It is a truly multicultural faith. Whether we like it or not, they know what they are about clearly. A large measure of this is that they know damn well what are NOT about. I believe that underneath all the white bullshit about freedom and liberty etc. etc. humans really desire structure, predictability and order. I think an element of recent conversions is related to the fact that the west has forgone that by giving power to incompetent leaders, encouraging a self-centred culture at the heart of their financial system resulting in the current economic crisis plus making themselves look very vulnerable through idiotic military over-ambition. Like our forefathers denting the facade of Moghul invincibility centuries ago, sullay have damaged the similar projection that some of western/Euro society has been obsessed with exuding since colonial times and America more recently. Everyone loves an underdog when they take on a much bigger or powerful bully - and start to beat them. If you study Moscovici's work on minority influence, this is exactly one of the forces that makes people convert to other systems. It is just a shame that our people seem content with the position of sepoy/storm trooper. Not very manly if you ask me. It's just subservience of a particular type to my mind. The more independent, struggling group with always look more impressive in my opinion. 'Go alongs' just get taken for granted. And we generally are, unless some dodgy group like the BNP or EDL is trying to manipulate and use us these days.

Fourteenth pauri: Overall Meaning: ਮੰਨੈ ਮਾਰਗਿ ਠਾਕ ਨ ਪਾਇ ॥ Man-nai Maarag(i) Thaak Na Paa(e)eh. After placing faith in the Naam, no obstacle can stand in one's way, nothing can block the path ਮੰਨੈ ਪਤਿ ਸਿਉ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਜਾਇ ॥ Man-nai Pat(i) Seho(u) Pargat(u) Jaa(e)eh. After placing faith in the Naam, one departs this world with great honor and fame Word By Word: ਮੰਨੈ -Man-nai -if one were to believe, if ones thirst was to become attached to the Naam, after placing faith in the Naam, after believing in the Naam ਮਾਰਗਿ -Maarag(i) -path, road, way ਠਾਕ -Thaak -obstacle, something which blocks the path, a stop ਨ -Na -negation word, no , won't ਪਾਇ - Paa(e)eh- to obtain, to get ਠਾਕ ਨ ਪਾਇ-Thaak Na Paa(e)eh.-obstacles are not obtained (met), obstacles are not run in to, ਮੰਨੈ -Man-nai -if one were to believe, if ones thirst was to become attached to the Naam, after placing faith in the Naam, after believing in the Naam ਪਤਿ -Pat(i) - honor, greatness ਸਿਉ - Seho(u) -with ਪਤਿ ਸਿਉ-Pat(i) Seho(u)-with honor and greatness ਪਰਗਟੁ - Pargat(u) -to be famous, to be known ਜਾਇ - Jaa(e)eh.-to go,to be done In a Nutshell : After placing faith in the Naam, one does not meet with any obstacles in life. They leave this world with honor and fame. They have greatness here and hereafter. A Little Deeper: The Naam is so powerful that by placing the faith in it, one's life journey becomes clear and free of obstacles. The Naam guides one straight on and they do not have to worry about this world. Their soul moves onwards to God and they don't get stuck in the web of maya (wordliness). They don't worry about honor or dishonor. They obtain the greatest honor. They leave this world with greatness and glory. Such is the power of placing faith in the Naam. Overall Meaning: ਮੰਨੈ ਮਗੁ ਨ ਚਲੈ ਪੰਥੁ ॥ Man-nai Mag(u) Na Chalai Panth(i). After placing faith in the Naam, one does not wander in useless rites, rituals and customs ਮੰਨੈ ਧਰਮ ਸੇਤੀ ਸਨਬੰਧੁ ॥ Man-nai dharam Saytee Sanbandth(u) After placing faith in the Naam, one makes a straight relationship, connection with real dharma (true religion, true righteousness, away from false rituals) Word By Word: ਮੰਨੈ -Man-nai -if one were to believe, if ones thirst was to become attached to the Naam, after placing faith in the Naam, after believing in the Naam ਮਗੁ - Mag(u) -road, path ਨ -Na -negation word, no , won't ਚਲੈ -Chalai -to go ਪੰਥੁ -Panth(i)-path, road ਮੰਨੈ -Man-nai -if one were to believe, if ones thirst was to become attached to the Naam, after placing faith in the Naam, after believing in the Naam ਧਰਮ -Dharam - true religion, true righteousness, true dharma ਸੇਤੀ -Saytee - with ਸਨਬੰਧੁ - Sanbandth(u)- connection, relationship Why is there a (u) aunkaar (ੁ) at the end of the word 'ਪੰਥੁ', Panth(u)?- (a) According to the common rules of grammar there should be a siharee (ਿ) (eh) here, but in Sanskrit, the common trend of this rule is that when talking about long-long times, than instead of using the locative case the object case is used. The nature of that rule is used a little in old-Punjabi as well For example (੧) ਗਾਵਨਿ ਤੁਧ ਨੋ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਪੜਨਿ ਰਖੀਸਰ, 'ਜੁਗੁ ਜੁਗੁ' ਵੇਦਾ ਨਾਲੇ। (ਪਉੜੀ ੨੦)। (1) Gaavan(i) Tudh Noa Pandit Pardhan(i) Rakheesar, Jug(u) Jug(u) Vaydaa Naalay.(pauri 20). (੨) ਜੁਗੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਭਗਤ ਉਪਾਇਆ, ਪੈਜ ਰਖਦਾ ਆਇਆ ਰਾਮ ਰਾਜੇ। (2) Jug(u) Jug(u) Bhagat O(u)Paa(e)eh(a)aa,Paij Rakhdaa (A)aa(e)eh(a)aa Raam Raajay. (੩) ਸਾਵਣਿ ਵਰਸੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ 'ਜਗੁ' ਛਾਇਆ ਜੀਉ। (ਗਉੜੀ ਮਾਝ ਮ: ੪)। (3) Saavan(i) Varas(u) Anmeh®t(i) 'jug(u)' Chaa(e)eh(a)aa Jeeo(u). (Go(u)rdhee Maajh M:4). (੪) ਬਾਵੈ 'ਮਾਰਗੁ' ਟੇਢਾ ਚਲਣਾ। ਸੀਧਾ ਛੋਡਿ ਅਪੂਠਾ ਬੁਨਨਾ।੩।੨੯।੯੮। (ਗਾਉੜੀ ਗੁਆਰੇਰੀ ਮ: ੫)। Baawai 'Maarag(u)' Taydha Chalnaa. Sedhee Choad(i) Apoothaa Bunanaa.3.29.99.(Go(u)rdhee Gu(a)aarayree M:5). ਮਗੁ= Mag(u)=path,way In Guru Granth Sahib Ji's Bani both words are used (੧) 'ਮਾਰਗਿ ਪੰਥ ਚਲੇ ਗੁਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸੰਗਿ ਸਿਖਾ।' (ਤੁਖਾਰੀ ਛੰਤ ਮ: ੪)। (1) ' Maarag(i) Panth Chalay Gur Sat(i)gur Sang Sikhaa.'(Tukharee Chant M:4). (੨) ਮੁੰਧ ਨੈਣ ਭਰੇਦੀ, ਗੁਣ ਸਾਰੇਦੀ , ਕਿਉਂ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮਿਲਾ ਪਿਆਰੇ। ਮਾਰਗੁ ਪੰਥੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਉ ਬਿਖੜਾ, ਕਿਉ ਪਾਈਐ ਪਿਰ ਪਾਰੇ। (ਤੁਖਾਰੀ ਮ: ੧)। (2) Mundh Nain Bharaydee, Gun Saaraydee, Keho(u)(n) Prabh Mehlaa Peh(a)aaray. Maarag(u) Panth(u) Na Jaano(u) Behkrdha, Keho(u) Paa(e)eh(a)ai Peh Paaray. (Tukharee M:1) In a Nutshell : When one places their faith in the Naam, all other fruitless efforts vanish. After a person places their faith in the Naam alone, then that person does not need to follow blind rituals. They do not need to wander lost in the ways of this world. They find the essence of dharma and attach themselves to it. The Naam makes it clear. Such is the power of placing one's faith in the Naam. A Little Deeper: So many religions lay down so many different doctrines. What is the true path to God. When one attaches themselves directly to God, to the Naam, then the path is clear and one does not engage in fruitless religious rituals and customs. They find the true dharma, and the true religion. Haziness and confusion vanish. A person doesn’t need good and bad omens. They don’t need anything but the one Naam. That is their only hope and the only thing they place their faith it. They truly attach themselves to the heart of real dharma. Overall Meaning: ਐਸਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ (A)aisaa Naam(u) Nehranjn(u) Hoa(e)eh Such is the greatness of the Naam, which is beyond the hold of the world and maya ਜੇ ਕੋ ਮੰਨਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਮਨਿ ਕੋਇ ॥੧੨॥ Jay Koa Mnan(i) Jaanai Man(i) Koa(e)eh .12. Only if one were to place faith in the Naam and search within, only than could they experience such greatness within their souls (minds) Word By Word: ਐਸਾ -(A)aisaa -such is, like this, such a hieght, the Naam is so high, such is the greatness of the Naam ਨਾਮੁ-Naam(u) - The Naam of the timeless being ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ-Nehranjn(u) -immune from the world/immune from maya/detached from creation and its turmoil ਹੋਇ- Hoa(e)eh-to be/to happen/is ਜੇ -Jay -of ਕੋ-Koa -one human, one person, any person, anyone ਮੰਨਿ -Mnan(i) -wer'e to believe, were to place faith in the Naam of the timeless being ਜਾਣੈ -Jaanai - to know, to be aware of, to take a look and see, ਮੰਨਿ ਜਾਣੈ -Mnan(i) Jaanai- to place faith and look, to place faith and search within, to look within with faith and belief, to take a look after ਮਨਿ -Man(i) - within the mind.soul ਕੋਇ-Koa(e)eh- any human, anyone In a Nutshell : Such is the greatness of the Naam. It is above the material world, unattached from all. Only one who places faith in this Naam can know the state of one who places faith within the Naam. Only the one who believes can know the greatness of those who believe. A Little Deeper: The Naam is so great that only it brings tremendous joy to the mind of the believer. This joy is beyond the material world. The Naam is beyond the material world. When one attaches to the Naam their state also transcends the material world. Those whose state is still stuck in maya and worldliness, those who haven't tasted the Naam, how can they know the joy? How does one describe the indescribable? Only those who taste the Naam can know the flavor. Whole Pauri - Word by Word from teeka ਫਿਰ (ਦੁਨੀਆਂ ਦੇ ਵੱਖੋ-ਵੱਖਰੇ ਮਜ਼ਹਬਾਂ ਦੇ ਦੱਸੇ) ਰਸਤਿਆਂ 'ਤੇ ਨਹੀਂ ਤੁਰਦਾ (ਭਾਵ, ਉਸ ਦੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਇਹ ਵਿਖੇਪਤਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਰਹਿੰਦੀ ਕਿ ਇਹ ਰਸਤਾ ਚੰਗਾ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਇਹ ਮੰਦਾ ਹੈ)। । ਹੋਰ ਲਾਂਭ ਦੀਆਂ ਪਗ-ਡੰਡੀਆਂ ਉਸਨੂੰ ਕੁਰਾਹੇ ਨਹੀਂ ਪਾ ਸਕਦੀਆਂ।੧੪। If a human becomes faithful to the Naam, only then in their life's joruney will the views of others not cause hindrance. (In this world) they will leave life after having obtained praise and honor. That human becomes attached on the straight road to righteousness (dharam) rather than the different paths seen in this world. The Naam of the timeless being is very high, and it is beyond the reach, care, hold of maya (those who bind with this Naam, their spiritual reach becomes that high, but this height can only be understood by those who have attached themselves to the Naam, and take the effort to look within their own souls. Meaning- With the never ending blessing (barkati) of remembering the Naam, whichever human falls in love with the Lord, in the form of simran, they form a deep relationship with true dharma, so deep that no obstacle or hinderence can come in the way. More Veechar- Guru Ji once again tells us of the power of placing faith in the Naam. One who places their faith in the Naam faces no obstacles in the journey of their life. They don't have to worry because they have surrendered to the Naam. They have full faith that the Naam will deliver them . They soar through life’s ups and downs in a state of bliss. They leave this world with great honor and fame. They do not get lost in empty pointless rituals. They do not get lost in the ways of the world. They escape the clutches of maya. The Naam carries them above the web of worldliness. They don't waste time with other hopes and efforts. They find the straight road to God, the road to true dharma. They don't hop around in ponds and puddles (different religions, different rituals) but through meditating and placing faith in the one Naam alone, they find God, the ocean. They don't need a middle man to show them the way. They don’t need to rely on shamans and tantric spells, or fasts, or ritual cleansing. They don't need to worry about good and bad omens. They lose their thoughts of pain and pleasure and live in a great state of bliss attached to the Naam alone. This is the true essence of dharma. Such is the power of placing faith in the Naam. The Naam is above the hold of maya, the state of the believer in the Naam, can only be known to the believer alone!

Thirteenth pauri: Overall Meaning: ਮੰਨੈ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਮਨਿ ਬੁਧਿ ॥ Man-nai Surat(i) Hoavai Man(i) Budh(i). After placing faith in the Naam, one's consciousness soars high and their sleeping mind/soul (asleep under maya) awakens ਮੰਨੈ ਸਗਲ ਭਵਣ ਕੀ ਸੁਧਿ ॥ Man-nai Sagal Bhavan Kee Sudh(i). After placing faith in the Naam, the understanding of all the realms and regions (of creation) comes to dwell within the human (they understand God's omnipresence in all places) Word By Word: ਮੰਨੈ -Man-nai -if one were to believe, if one’s thirst was to become attached to the Naam, after placing faith in the Naam, after believing in the Naam ਸੁਰਤਿ - Surat(i) -consciousness ਹੋਵੈ -Hoavai - to happen/to become ਸੁਰਤਿ ਹੋਵੈ-Surat(i) Hoavai- for the consciousness to become (high/elevated) ਮਨਿ -Man(i) - within the mind/within the soul ਬੁਧਿ -Budh(i).-awakening/spiritual awakening, the awakening of knowledge ਮੰਨੈ -Man-nai -if one were to believe, if ones thirst was to become attached to the Naam, after placing faith in the Naam, after believing in the Naam ਸਗਲ - Sagal -all/all of ਭਵਣ -Bhavan- realms, regions, worlds ਕੀ -Kee - of ਸੁਧਿ - Sudh(i). news, understanding, knowledge In a Nutshell : After placing faith in the Naam, one's consciousness soars to great heights. Their mind/soul which was asleep under maya, under lust, anger, greed, ego, attachment, under the wall of falseness, finally has a fresh awakening. After placing faith in the Naam, one obtains the knowledge of all the realms of creation and they realize God's omnipresence in each and every area of creation! A Little Deeper: The soul of the human remains asleep under the falseness of maya. Humans face so much pain and they remain stuck. The only way out is the Naam. When one places faith in their Naam, their consciousness soars to great height. They realize God and awaken to God's Naam and love. They are no longer stuck in the bonds of maya. They soar above these bonds and they realize that this world is false and God is all that truly exists. They see God everywhere and see no other. Their mind and soul awaken to see that this whole world is the image of God. Thus they see God is all regions and all they see is the sweetness of the Lord. Their way of looking at the world changes and they realize that God is everywhere and always with them. Such is the power of faith in the Naam. Overall Meaning: ਮੰਨੈ ਮੁਹਿ ਚੋਟਾ ਨਾ ਖਾਇ ॥ Man-nai Muh(i) Choataa Na Khaa(e)eh. After placing faith in the Naam, one is not beaten on the face with the stick of vice ਮੰਨੈ ਜਮ ਕੈ ਸਾਥਿ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ Man-nai Jam Kai Saath(i) Na Jaa(e)eh. After placing faith in the Naam, one does not have to accompany the dark angels of death (one is saved from the cycle of death and rebirth) Word By Word: ਮੰਨੈ -Man-nai ਮੁਹਿ -Muh(i) - on the face ਚੋਟਾ -Choataa - stick, beatings with a stick ਨਾ -Na -negation word, no , won't ਖਾਇ -Khaa(e)eh-to eat , to receive ਮੰਨੈ -Man-nai ਜਮ -Jam -death's dark angel, death’s demon, ਕੈ -Kai - of (the Jam(dark angel) in this case) ਸਾਥਿ -Saath(i) - with, accompanying (to accompany) ਨ -Na -negation word, no,won't ਜਾਇ -Jaa(e)eh-to go In a Nutshell : Those who place faith in the Naam will not eat beatings with the stick of vice. They will remain above the holds of lust, anger, greed, attachment and ego. They will not have to keep coming and going, stuck in the painful cycle of reincarnation. They will not accompany the Jam, the dark angels of death. A Little Deeper: The whole world is attacked with the five vices. Humans are beaten day and night with the stick of lust, anger, greed, ego and attachment. They are driven by these thirsts and the consequences of their actions cause unbearable pain, much like being beaten in the face by a stick. Those who place their faith in the Naam have the power to overcome these vices. They do not get beaten by them but through the Naam they transcend over these five thieves. They don’t have to go with the Jam meaning they don't have to face the path of death. They become immortal and they attain freedom from reincarnation. The Jam symbolize the horrid cycle of death and rebirth. Those who have placed their belief in the one Naam alone are saved in this world from the pain of vice and in the world hereafter from the fear of death! Overall Meaning: ਐਸਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ (A)aisaa Naam(u) Nehranjn(u) Hoa(e)eh Such is the greatness of the Naam, which is beyond the hold of the world and maya ਜੇ ਕੋ ਮੰਨਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਮਨਿ ਕੋਇ ॥੧੨॥ Jay Koa Mnan(i) Jaanai Man(i) Koa(e)eh .12. Only if one were to place faith in the Naam and search within, only than could they experience such greatness within their souls (minds) Word By Word: ਐਸਾ -(A)aisaa -such is, like this, such a height, the Naam is so high, such is the greatness of the Naam ਨਾਮੁ-Naam(u) - The Naam of the timeless being ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ-Nehranjn(u) -immune from the world/immune from maya/detached from creation and its turmoils ਹੋਇ- Hoa(e)eh-to be/to happen/is ਜੇ -Jay -of ਕੋ-Koa -one human,one person, any person.ayone ਮੰਨਿ -Mnan(i) –we’re to believe, were to place faith in the Naam of the timeless being ਜਾਣੈ -Jaanai - to know, to be aware of, to take a look and see, ਮੰਨਿ ਜਾਣੈ -Mnan(i) Jaanai- to place faith and look, to place faith and search within, to look within with faith and belief, to take a look after ਮਨਿ -Man(i) - within the mind, soul ਕੋਇ-Koa(e)eh- any human, anyone In a Nutshell : Such is the greatness of the Naam. It is above the material world, unattached from all. Only one who places faith in this Naam can know the state of one who places faith within the Naam. Only the one who believes can know the greatness of those who believe. A Little Deeper: The Naam is so great that only it brings tremendous joy to the mind of the believer. This joy is beyond the material world. The Naam is beyond the material world. When one attaches to the Naam their state also transcends the material world. Those whose state is still stuck in maya and worldliness, those who haven't tasted the Naam, how can they know the joy? How does one describe the indescribable? Only those who taste the Naam can know the flavor. Whole Pauri- Word for Word from the Teeka If inside a human’s mind/soul , their attachment is attached to God, and if their consciousness becomes high (great), then within their mind/soul is a great awakening (meaning they are no longer asleep to maya/to worldliness, their once asleep under maya mind/soul awakens). They obtain an understanding of all the realms and regions ( that God is omnipresent in all places). That human does not (eat) face beating on the face with the stick ( of the worlds vices, namely lust, anger, greed, ego, attachment) and does not have to accompany the jam (demons of death, deaths dark angels, meaning that they don't get stuck in this cycle of life and death and rebirth, they are saved from it).The Naam of the timeless being is very high, and it is beyond the reach, care, hold of maya ( those who bind with this Naam, their spiritual reach becomes that high, but this (the height of their reach) but this height can only be understood by those who have attached themselves to the Naam, and take the effort to look within their own souls. Meaning, the love for the sweet charan (feet, symbolic of shelter) brings light with the mind/soul of a human, and that human sees God everywhere in the world. They are not hit with the stick of vice and death can't scare them.13. More Veechar There is nothing more powerful than belief in the Naam. The power of this belief can only be known to one who believes. The state of the believer is beyond all description . The Naam of the timeless being is beyond the world and beyond the holds of maya. One can only experience this greatness if they place their faith in the Naam otherwise they will never be able to comprehend it. After placing faith in the naam the sleeping mind is awakened. The human no longer has to lie asleep under the false facade of this world. They understand the essence of life. They understand that God is the root of all and that there is none but God. They find their permanent home and they see only God everywhere. The illusion of pain and pleasure is God. All they see is the state of God's glory. They see God in every atom of creation, in all the regions and nether-regions. They have knowledge of all places and interspaces and they see the sweet lord everywhere. Due to this, they are able to rise above the five vices. The vices which beat this whole world, they are immune. They do not face beatings, they do not face the consequences that these vices leave on their souls and body. The stick of vice spares them and they rise above lust, anger, greed, ego, and attachment by placing their faith in the Naam. They rise above death as well. They do not have to worry about going with the jam (jamdhoot, dark angels of death) because they merge with the Lord and do not ever have to leave God's embrace! The jam symbolize the path of rebirth. One who believes in God does not have to take this path. They transcend above it all. The Naam carries them above pain and pleasure, birth and death! Such is the power of the Naam, which is beyond the world, and can only be known by the believer!

Twelfth pauri: Overall Meaning: ਮੰਨੇ ਕੀ ਗਤਿ ਕਹੀ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ Man-aay Kee Gat(eh) Kahee Na Jaa(e)eh The high spiritual state of one who places their belief in the Naam is indescribable. It cannot possibly be described or told of ਜੇ ਕੋ ਕਹੈ ਪਿਛੈ ਪਛੁਤਾਇ ॥ Jay Koa Kahai Pichai Pach(u)taa(e)eh. If any human even attempts to describe this great spiritual state they will afterwards regret their effort (they will feel it was a bad attempt/low effort) Word by Word: ਮੰਨੇ -Man-aay - the believer, one who has faith, one of faith, one of belief ਕੀ -Kee - of ਮੰਨੇ ਕੀ-Mnaay Kee- of the believer, of the one who has faith ਗਤਿ- Gat(eh) -state, spiritual state, spiritual reach (avashta) ਕਹੀ-Kahee - to tell, to describe , to speak of ਨ -Na - negation word, no ,can't, are not able to ਜਾਇ- Jaa(e)eh- to happen, to be done ਜੇ -Jay -if ਕੋ -Koa- any person, any one person, any one being, some peroson ਕਹੈ- Kahai - describes( tries to describe), attempts to speak of, tries to tell of ਪਿਛੈ-Pichai -afterwards, after doing something, after doing so ਪਛੁਤਾਇ-Pach(u)taa(e)eh- to regret, to feel remorse In a Nutshell : The glory of the Naam is beyond description. The state of one who puts their belief and faith in the Naam is indescribable. Their greatness is bigger than this world. How can it be described? Anyone who tries will soon feel regret, they will feel that their attempt was infinitely inadequate. Such is the greatness of the Naam. A Little Deeper: The glory of the Naam is so great and it can only be experienced by one who has faith within. The greatness is beyond this world and beyond the senses of just the mind (brain) and body. The bliss and the state of mind of one who puts their faith in the Naam is beyond human comprehension. Who can describe the vastness and great pleasure of the Naam? That great feeling is beyond words. If one were to try to describe it they would fail. They would regret their effort calling it a bad attempt. The bliss of God is truly beyond all description. Only one with faith, only one who experiences it first hand, can realize it and enjoy it but none can ever adequately, even describe a small bit of the incredible joyfulness of being immersed in the Naam and having full faith in it. No one can know but those who have this faith. Overall Meaning: ਕਾਗਦਿ ਕਲਮ ਨ ਲਿਖਣਹਾਰੁ ॥ Kaagad(i) Kalam Na Lehkhanhaar(u). Neither on paper , nor with a pen, nor with any scribe (there is no scribe capable ) ਮੰਨੇ ਕਾ ਬਹਿ ਕਰਨਿ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ॥ Man-nay Kaa Bheh Karan(i) Veechaar(u). There is none powerful enough to sit and write the description describing the great spiritual glory of one who places their faith in the Naam Word By Word: ਕਾਗਦਿ-Kaagad(i) -ontop of a paper ਕਲਮ-Kalam - (with a )pen ਨ-Na -negation word, no,cant, is impossible ਲਿਖਣਹਾਰੁ - Lehkhanhaar(u)- one who can write, who is capable of writing, who can write, scribes ਮੰਨੇ-Man-nay -the believer, one who has faith, one of faith, one of belief ਕਾ-Kaa -of ਬਹਿ-Bheh -to sit ਕਰਨਿ-Karan(i) to do ਕਾ ਬਹਿ -Kaa Bheh - to sit and do, to sit down and do ਵੀਚਾਰੁ-Veechaar(u)-description/discourse/discussion ਮੰਨੇ ਕਾ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ-Mnnay Kaa Veechaar(u)-the discussion of the one greatness of one who has placed their belief in the Naam, the description of the spiritual reach (avashta) and glory of one who has their belief in the Naam In a Nutshell : The description of the believer's glorious state is indescribable, It can't be written on paper with a pen and there is no scribe who can write this glory. Who is powerful enough to sit and attempt? It is impossible. A Little Deeper: The Naam is so exalted that the description of one who believes in it is infinitely great. The glory is never-ending. There is no amount of paper that can describe this glory. There is no pen which can write this description and there is no one powerful enough to try to describe the happiness and glory and great spiritual height which comes from the Naam. One would have to write till infinity and still it would not be written. There is no one powerful enough to sit and truly describe or write of the limitless power within the mind of one who places their faith in the Naam. Overall Meaning: ਐਸਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ (A)aisaa Naam(u) Nehranjn(u) Hoa(e)eh Such is the greatness of the Naam, which is beyond the hold of the world and maya ਜੇ ਕੋ ਮੰਨਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਮਨਿ ਕੋਇ ॥੧੨॥ Jay Koa Mnan(i) Jaanai Man(i) Koa(e)eh .12. Only if one were to place faith in the Naam and search within, only than could they experience such greatness within their souls (minds) Word By Word: ਐਸਾ -(A)aisaa -such is, like this, such a height, the Naam is so high, such is the greatness of the Naam ਨਾਮੁ-Naam(u) - The Naam of the timeless being ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ-Nehranjn(u) -immune from the world/immune from maya/detached from creation and its turmoil ਹੋਇ- Hoa(e)eh-to be/to happen/is ਜੇ -Jay -of ਕੋ-Koa -one human, one person, any perosn. ayone ਮੰਨਿ -Mnan(i) -were to believe, were to place faith in the Naam of the timeless being ਜਾਣੈ -Jaanai - to know, to be aware of, to take a look and see, ਮੰਨਿ ਜਾਣੈ -Mnan(i) Jaanai- to place faith and look, to place faith and search within, to look within with faith and belief, to take a look after ਮਨਿ -Man(i) - within the mind.soul ਕੋਇ-Koa(e)eh- any human, anyone In a Nutshell : Such is the greatness of the Naam. It is above the material world, unattached from all. Only one who places faith in this Naam can know the state of one who places faith within the Naam. Only the one who believes can know the greatness of those who believe. A Little Deeper: The Naam is so great that only it brings tremendous joy to the mind of the believer. This joy is beyond the material world. The Naam is beyond the material world. When one attaches to the Naam their state also transcends the material world. Those whose state is still stuck in maya and worldliness, those who haven't tasted the Naam, how can they know the joy? How does one describe the indescribable? Only those who taste the Naam can know the flavor. Whole Pauri- Word for Word from Teeka The high spiritual reach, the avastha of the soul who has placed belief in the Naam of the timeless being (or, one whose thirst, curiosity, love (lagan) has become attached to the Naam, that high spiritual reach (avastha) cannot be described. If any person tries to describe it they will feel regret afterwards (that I made a wrong effort, a bad effort). Humans come together and try to estimate the spiritual reach of the one who believes, but no human has the power of strength to write this estimate with a pen on paper, The Naam of the timeless being is very high, and it is beyond the reach, care, hold of maya , those who bind with this Naam, their spiritual reach becomes that high, but this (the height of their reach) can only be understood by those who have attached themselves to the Naam, and take the effort to look within their own souls. (Meaning, God is infinitely above the hold, the reach of maya, by binding the consciousness in the Naam of the Timeless Being, some humans, lagan (curiosity, love, thirst) becomes attached, and their soul too becomes above the hold of maya. That human whose attachment, whose inner thirst, whose lagan, becomes attached to the Naam, the high spiritual state of that human is so great that it can't be described or written. 12. More Veechar In this pauri SatGuru Naanak Dev Ji uses the only possible description to describe the greatness of Naam, that description is indescribable. There is nothing like the Naam. There are no words to describe it. The mental state of one who attaches themselves to the Naam is beyond limits. How can we limit it to a description? How can the deaf man understand the sound a piano makes? How can the maya centered mind understand the state of one who has transcended this world. The only way to know is if one were to fall in love with the Naam and attach themselves to it. If one were to connect to God and reach that height, only then could they know this height. If anyone even tries to describe the mental state of one who believes in the Naam, they would regret their attempt and think it was inadequate. Any estimation would be low. The Naam in unreachable, the only way to reach it is to attach the consciousness to it. It is through thirsting for it and searching within. There is no way to write on paper with pen, there is no scribe who can write the glorious state of one who believes in the Naam. Even if one was to write forever they could not do it! No one has the power to write this limitless greatness. How could it be limited to pen and paper, It is beyond the universe. Such is the greatness of the Naam which is limitless beyond all creation, that the glory of the believer can only be known solely to the mind of the believer! Let us too put our faith in the Naam so we can taste some of this glorious greatness within our mind.

We should note that the above tuk uses Islamic/Farsi terminology.

Okay, looks like the thread has died. In the hopes of a Jesus like resurrection: Anyone have an idea on this word? ਪ੍ਰਿਯ also "ਕਾਰਯ ਕਰਤਬ"

I updated the 9th pauri and have numbered them so people can (hopefully) easily locate any particular pauri they may want to find.

Eleventh pauri: Overall Meaning ਸੁਣਿਐ ਸਰਾ ਗੁਣਾ ਕੇ ਗਾਹ ॥ Suneh(A)ai Saraa Gunaa Kay Gaah By binding the consciousness with the Naam, one dives into the tank (sarover) of God's infinite virtue, one obtains an understanding of infinite virtue ਸੁਣਿਐ ਸੇਖ ਪੀਰ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹ ॥ Suneh(A)ai Saykh Peer Paatehsaah By binding the consciousness with the Naam, one reaches the great exalted state of of the Sheiks (religious leaders) , Pirs (religious leaders, enlightened ones) and Paatshahs (Kings) Word By Word ਸੁਣਿਐ -Suneh(A)ai --listening/by listening/ through listening/by focusing consciousness on the Naam ਸਰਾ -Saraa –sarovar ,filled tank, ਗੁਣਾ -Gunaa -virtue ਕੇ -Kay -of ਸਰਾ ਗੁਣਾ ਕੇ-Saraa Gunaa Kay- The sarover of virtue, the tank of virtue, infinite virtue ਗਾਹ-Gaah- ones of knowledge, influence and power ਸੁਣਿਐ -Suneh(A)ai --listening/by listening/ through listening/by focusing consciousness on the Naam ਸੇਖ -Saykh -religious leader ਪੀਰ -Peer -religious leader/considered enlightened one ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹ-Paatehsaah- king of all, ruler of all In A Nutshell By binding the conciousness to the Naam, one dives deep into the tank of the Lord's infinite virtues. They obtain an understanding of virtues and divine truths and their state becomes as great and high as Saykhs (religious leaders), Peers (religious leaders/enlightened ones) and even Patsaahs (Kings). Such is the greatness of binding with the Naam. A Little Deeper The Naam is so powerful that by binding the consciousness to the Naam of the timeless being, an ordinary mortal becomes God-like. They dive into the never-ending infinite tank of God's virtues and obtain an understanding of the divine truths. They become so wonderful, powerful, and amazing that the reach the level of the Sheikhs (religious leaders), Pirs (religious leaders/enlightened ones.) and even the level of mighty Kings. They reach this level easily, just by binding their minds with the Naam. The Naam is the most powerful force and religious ritual and it is the most fruitful effort in every way. Let us too bind with the Naam and see where it takes us! Overall Meaning ਸੁਣਿਐ ਅੰਧੇ ਪਾਵਹਿ ਰਾਹੁ ॥ Suneh(A)ai Andhaay Paavheh Raah(u) By binding the consciousness with the Naam, those lacking divine knowledge, the spiritually blind, they too find the right path to meeting the Lord ਸੁਣਿਐ ਹਾਥ ਹੋਵੈ ਅਸਗਾਹੁ ॥ Suneh(A)ai Haath Hoavai Asgaah(u) By binding the consciousness with the Naam, the vastly deep unfathomable world ocean and , the true reality of this world ocean is understood, Word By Word ਸੁਣਿਐ -Suneh(A)ai --listening/by listening/ through listening/by focusing consciousness on the Naam ਅੰਧੇ -Andhaay - blind ਪਾਵਹਿ-Paavheh- to obtain/ to receive ਰਾਹੁ -Raah(u)- path/way/right road/pathway ਪਾਵਹਿ ਰਾਹੁ-Paavheh Raah(u)- to find the way/to obtain the path ਸੁਣਿਐ -Suneh(A)ai --listening/by listening/ through listening/by focusing consciousness on the Naam ਹਾਥ -Haath -understanding of the depth/understanding of deepness/understanding of the truth ਹੋਵੈ -Hoavai -to happen/to become/to take place ਹਾਥ ਹੋਵੈ-for something deep to be understood/for understanding to happen/take place/reality is understood, truth is understood/ for the understaing of truth/reality/depth to take place ਅਸਗਾਹੁ-Asgaah(u)-deep ocean/the world/the deep ocean which is the world/world ocean (A note about) the word Haath The word Haath 'ਹਾਥ' is a feminine gendered word, and that is why in it's singular for there is no (u) , no aunkar, no (ੁ) at the end of this word. This word means the understanding of deepness (deep matters, deep subjects), but when this same word is in the masculine form it means, a body part of a human, a hand. For example 1.ਹਾਥੁ ਪਸਾਰਿ ਸਕੈ ਕੋ ਜਨ ਕਉ, ਬੋਲਿ ਨ ਸਕੈ ਅੰਦਾਜਾ।੧। (ਬਿਲਾਵਲ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ)। - Haath(u) Pasaar(i) Sakai Koa Jan Ko(u), Boal(i) Na Sakai Andaajaa.1. (Bilaaval Kabeer Jee) In the plural form, (ਹਾਥ) "haath" is shown to be spelled the same way as it's feminine form ("haath") for example 2.: ਹਾਥ ਦੇਇ ਰਾਖੇ ਪਰਮੇਸਰਿ, ਸਗਲਾ ਦੁਰਤੁ ਮਿਟਾਇਆ।੧।੭।੧੬। (ਗੂਜਰੀ ਮਹਲਾਂ ੫)। - Haath Day(e)eh Raakhay Parmaysar(i), Saglaa Durat(u) Mehtaa(e)eh(a)aa.1.7.16. (Goojree Mahalaa(n) 5) In A Nutshell By binding with the Naam, those who don't know anything about spiritual rituals or practices, those who are blind to divine knowledge, they too find the right pathway. By binding with the Naam this vast world, which is like a deep ocean, is understood by those who attach themselves with the Naam. Such is the power of the Naam. A Little Deeper By binding with the Naam, those who have no knowledge of mantras, tantras, prayers, wisdom, or rituals, those who are spiritually blind, through binding with the great Naam, they too find the right path to meeting the Lord. The Naam is the path. It is the essence of all rituals. By binding with the Naam, this scary ocean like world, full of lust, anger, greed, ego and attachment, this world which passes like a dream, life and death, the vast un-understandable world ocean is understood. Through the Naam one understands the nature of this world-ocean and of life. The Naam is everything, it is the greatest power and knowledge and the greatest spiritual gift. Binding with the Naam is the greatest effort. Why not attach our consciousness to the Naam and swim across this world ocean? It is the only way! Overall Meaning ਨਾਨਕ ਭਗਤਾ ਸਦਾ ਵਿਗਾਸੁ ॥ Naanak Bhagtaa Sadaa Vehgaas O Nanak those Saints, the ones who bind their hearts with the Naam, they are always in great blissful happiness- ਸੁਣਿਐ ਦੂਖ ਪਾਪ ਕਾ ਨਾਸੁ Suneh(a)ai Dookh Paap Kaa Naas(u)- (Because) by listening to the praises of God and binding the Heart to the Naam all ones Sins and pains are all destroyed Word by Word ਭਗਤਾ - Bhagtaa – The Saints/ the Ones who bind their consciousness with God/ The Ones who keep God attached to their hearts/ The Devotees ਸਦਾ - Sadaa –forever/ eternally/ always and forever ਵਿਗਾਸੁ- Vehgaas- great joyfulness,/ deep bliss/ amazing happiness and ecstasy ਸੁਣਿਐ - Suneh(a)ai-To Listen/ By listening/my attaching our consciousness/focus/soul with the Naam/by listening to the praises of ਦੂਖ - Dookh – Pain/ Hurt ਪਾਪ - Paap - Sin ਕਾ- Kaa - of ਨਾਸੁ- Naas(u)- destruction ਕਾ- Kaa ਨਾਸੁ- Naas(u)- The destruction of/ The Destroying of / To cause destruction to In A Nutshell Those saints who listen to God's praises and attach their consciousness to the Naam are always joyful and jolly because by attaching the consciousness to the great Naam all pains and sins are forgotten. A little deeper The Naam is so powerful that it pulls a person’s soul out of the deep pit of this worlds pain and sin. It lifts the person up to a state of eternal bliss and joyfullness. The name breaks the false pain and makes the soul see God, from whom all pleasures originate. The act of singing God's praises and focusing on the Naam is so supreme that all sins and pains break into pieces and disappear as the state of mind of those saints who are bound to the Naam enjoy a beautiful eternal calm and blissful ecstasy. The whole Pauri - Word by Word from Teeka ਨੋਟ: ਨੰਬਰ ੧੨ ਤੋਂ ੧੫ ਤਕ ਚਾਰ ਪਉੜੀਆਂ ਦਾ ਮਜ਼ਮੂਨ ਇਕੋ ਲੜੀ ਦਾ ਹੈ। O Naanak! Those saints who bind their consciousness with the Naam of the timeless beings, within the minds of those saints is always blissful joy, because by hearing the Naam, a humans pains and sins are destroyed. By attaching the consciousness to the Naam, of the timeless being, an ordinary everyday person, the deep knowledge of virtue is found. The exalted state of the Sheiks (religious leader) , Pirs (religous leader,enlightened one) and Paatshahs (Kings) is obtained. This is the result of hearing the Naam, that one who blind spiritually in wisdom, they too will find the right path to meet the Lord. By binding the consciousness with the Naam of the timeless being, the deep ocean which is this world, the reality of this world-ocean is understood. Meaning: Whoever binds the consciousness with the Naam, that human dives in the ocean of God's virtues. This world is an unfathomable deep ocean where the human, separated from the Lord, (slaps/hits) flaps around their hands and feet like a blind person. However, the being, the soul, who is attached to the Naam, they find the right path (to God. Note-Number 12 to 14, the muzmoon is in one ladhee. More Veechar Once again Guru Ji tells us the power of binding with the Naam. By binding with the Naam , the saint, becomes just like God. They take a deep dive into God's infinite virtues. A deep understanding of divine virtue is obtained. The soul reaches the greatness of the sheiks (religious leaders), Pirs (religious leaders/enlightened ones) and even the Patshaahs (kings.) The soul becomes part of God and through the Naam, all of God's virtues dwell within them. They transcend this world and become glorious. The Naam is so powerful that even those who know nothing about spirituality, those who are spiritually blind, they too find the right path. The Naam leads the soul onward to God. It directs the soul to it's permanent home. Without the Naam we drown in this world ocean. This world is full of pain and it is almost impossible to stay above it. We are caught in the whirlpool of life. We are stuck in pain and pleasure, birth and death. We die miserable and turn cold as we drown in the world's pain. We are like blind people trying to swim in an ocean. We waver here and there looking for a way out. It is only through binding with the Naam, that we can escape the world's pain and passions, we can escape lust, anger, greed , ego and attachment and it is only through the Naam that we can reach God. The Naam is the true pathway to God. Even those who are spiritually blind can reach God through this pathway. Through the Naam they find the right path easily and by attaching the consciousness to the Naam, this crazy world, which is like a deep ocean is understood. Through the Naam , the soul easily crosses this world ocean. They stay above pain and pleasures and reach the Lord with ease. Those saints who bind with the Naam are always in blissful joy, they never have to worry about drowning in this world. By binding with the Naam, they transcend all pain and reach greatness. They find the Lord, and through the Naam, they are free of pain and sin! Why not attach ourselves to the Naam? Why not swim across this world ocean? Without the Naam, there is only pain and anger? Why not use the Naam as a boat or plane, and rise above the worlds pettiness and pain to a level of infinite greatness? Why not bind with the greatest most powerful Naam? Without it we will surely drown? With it , we will rise to God's glory! Such is the greatness of the Naam!

You know I have to add. I think Islam is attractive to some because it is a genuine alternative to the western way of life. It operates in a parallel space to the west but outside of it.

Well, what are your personal experiences of growing up/living in the west? Now that I'm older and able to judge things with a little more objectivity, I feel that it generally sucks. Constantly being bombarded with images, media that just panders to the base instincts our dharam tells us needs curtailing. The rampant consumerist drive. The nihilistic reductionalist education/philosophy. In the end this white experiment leads to nothing but a deep sense of emptiness. At best we get temporary fixes based on sex and/or materialism. The western worldview even impacts on people's ability to have stable relationships in a wholesome way. I'm not surprised people are seeking something more profound to fill in the gap in their lives. In a hypothetical position where I had to choose between 'either white westernism' or Islam, I'd go for the latter just because of the discipline and structure and some acknowledgment of God. Expect more conversions in light of the impending collapse of westernism. Also, expect more conversions from our quarters too, unless we replace the shallow, dogmatic, cultural version of Sikhi as practiced by the majority with the deep, profound, spiritual version enshrined in SGGS ji. It is time to blossom surely.

Is there a list of Nirmala literature with dates I'm wondering? I'm sure tsingh would know but he seems to have gone 'gupt' recently.

You mean like an Indian metronome?

Certainly that fanatic, dominating, controlling white impulse needs to be checked. But exterminating all of them is an over reaction.

How are Nirmala sants different to other Sikh sants? I know that they may be linked to the people GGS Ji sent to Benares, but other than that I know nothing. They also have a lot of old literature too if tsingh is anything to go by?

Okay, I've avoided asking for too long now. What is a Nirmala exactly?

Sikhchic is seriously 'managed'. I've had comments I've posted edited by the admin to make them a bit more politically correct. I think they are seeking to be a conduit for interfaith/culture exchange. Which I have nothing against personally. But I think they are quite desperate for stories with a possible wide audience hence jumping on Nikki Halleys. That being said, I think the site does have some merit. It is like a 'pop' website for Sikhi. Something newbies can use for their first step in. I did read this 'Talking stick' thread about Japji on there once and there was some good stuff on it. In any case, why are you guys acting at all surprised that apnay and apneean are probably some of the most consummate materialists around these days?

Nice one brother. Normally can't get into Giani Maskeen, but saw a few of the vids and was impressed at the exegesis. What is that instrument thing in the background btw? I noticed it being used in religious stuff quite a bit? Does it serve a particular purpose? It seems to have a strange effect on the mind...

I've moved away from seeking answers to spiritual matters through reductionalist, scientific, material explanations. When it comes to the eternal soul, it seems to be beyond material dimensions so I don't think it is an appropriate perspective to use to gain insights.In fact I think they are actually more of a ball and chain. That isn't to say we should go to the other extreme and just go along with any old thing we are told like certain apnay do.

Haven't checked it out fully yet but looks like there's some interesting stuff here: http://www.panthrattan.com/simran.htm

Great seva paan ji. Just as a suggestion. Maybe try also introducing 'pad arth' or definitions of each word like Prof. Sahib Singh did? Also never make them too long, so people can get bite sized information on the go, or in short breaks. Just suggestions, feel completely free to ignore them.

Zulu, for the record, I thought the playground style "Your mum's a slag" stuff was hilarious myself....

I haven't read all of this yet but it seems quite interesting at places.

Okay but do we really want to be focusing on other quoms issues when we have enough of our own to deal with. For the record most Iranians and Iraqis I've met (hell, actually all of them), have been pretty cool. There is a certain mentality some of our people have that goes around making more enemies than necessary and out of people we don't need to have negative such relations with. It needs to stop. Francisco speaks for Iranians/Shiates as much as he spoke for Sikhs when he was masquerading as one. I actually feel sorry for him. I think we should all take a second and thank God that we feel so secure our religious identity.

I don't get why we need to dis Iran just because of this bundha? As long as Iran isn't messing with Sikhs I haven't got any problem with them. Insulting Iran because goray are, or because a another goray has 'joined' them and is talking crap about Sikhi doesn't seem warranted. Why are some of you going down that route?