GuptSingh1699

Puratan sources confirm the fact that Sukha Singh and his son were expert at imitating the handwriting of Guru Gobind Singh and earny money that way. Sukha Singh's son added 5 KHas Patras (which he himself wrote imitating Guru Ji's handwriting) etc. I don't know, read Pandit Tara Singh on Sarbloh Granth. It is a fact that he said that. You want to know more about it, so research it.

I am not from Sikh Philosophy. Banned from SikhSangat though haha. Well why is phereh important? Isn't reading the Bani in front of SGGS enough? Phereh seem to make an idol out of SGGS We Matha Tek to Bani to show it respect, because Shabad Guru Surat Dhun Chela. Simran, Kirtan and Seva are part of Gurmat, thus no Bahmanvaad. I don't like this logic of saying yes Hindu breathe so we shouldn't breath. Thing is about PHILOSOPHY, anything that contradicts Gurmat, wheter its from Hindus or NOT shouldn't be part of Sikhi.

Pandit Tara Singh Narotam.

Those questions are still valid. JvalaSingh, those are no answers. When was Sarbloh Granth written? 1698 as some Nihangs say? Or In Guru's previous life and digged up later on? Both are fake. Sarbloh Granth was written by Sukha Singh Patna.

But so it is proven that the phereh thingy wasn't started by Guru Ji... I am not against reading Raag Suhi Lavaan, but phereh seem Brahmanvaad to me. Guru Granth Sahib is not an idol. What does Prem Sumarg say? (Its oldest copy is only from 1800 tho)

I have read it in his own words. I make nothing up.

No one is denying ANAND KARAJ ceremony here. There is no doubt Sikhs used to get married by Anand Karaj ceremony... As is also evident from Mukatnama which is said to have been uttered by Guru Ji and also from several other Puratan works. Question is, HOW was it done? In Guru Granth Sahibs presence? Around fire? Lavaan read? Some say that Lavaan is not even about a marriage but about the soul... Phereh? (taking 4 tours, one after each laav)

How was Anand Karaj done in Guru's times? The Bani was read in a Dharamshala and thats it? Isn't the taking rounds around SGGS more of a Brahminised thing? Nirankaris say they started it (later on, after Sikh Gurus), which is right. Please don't mind and discuss from a Gurmat/Historical perspective.

Oh was Krishan fighting against Adharm with Gopis in water? Stories are stories and Dhur Ki Bani is Ilahi Bani.

Gyani Gyan Singh got really sick and there were no chances that he would survive. Bhai Vir Singh along others coexed Gyani Gyan Singh into signing all his (unpublished) works to his society and also promised a pension of 12 rupees a month. Nothing less than a miracle, Gyan Gyan Singh started to get well... Alas it was too late... His expunged articles were published by Bhai Vir Singh in his newspapers. Gyani Gyan Singh tried to get back his effort filled material for 17 years, but most of it had been published, lost or destroyed. Spiritual experiences for stealing others works?

Muslims are a bigger threat than Goras in most European countries. UK might be an exception. Anyways why argue who is the bigger enemy if both are enemies? An enemy is an enemy, no matter big or small... It will alway try to hurt you. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Bhai Vir Singh did some nice jobs. I have read that he DID edit out various portions of Panth Parkash. Howhever he only put footnotes in Suraj Prakash Granth. Bhai Vir Singh was not really a great Gursikh, as he stole works of Gyani Gian Singh and published them as articles. Not really what a Gursikh would do. Chandi thing is anti Gurmat, whether its stated in Puratan work or not. Not all Puratan works are authentic, most have been tampered with and some other wrote with other agendas. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Interesting topic. What about doing Seva of putting All Puratan Birs in the world in Cyber format. I mean scanning or taking pics and putting in PDF formats. And look into their history aswell, their authenticity etc. By this work will be easier. I don't think SGPC will bother doing anything, all they are concerned with is Maya. The Salok is in Bhai Mani Singh's bir under Patshahi 10 and in Baba Deep Singh's as Mahalla 10. There are many such birs, howhever many perished during Operation Blue Star. The earliest Teeka of SGGS by Gyani Badan Singh also mentions this. Kam, awaiting to read your articles.

Balbir Singh, enemy of wisdom. Read following translations of the KUB / POET identifying himself. Beer Douhoo Diss Kay Kub Shyam Mukh Ouppar Dhaalan Ko Dhurr Jootay| Baan Kmaan Dhray Muthsaan Aaparmaan Juaanan Kay Run Shootay| ...| 11| Poet Shyam says, warriors from both sides were dueling with others using their shields. Strong warriors were firing countless arrows with their bows. … 11. Is Charitar talk all you learn from DG ? Poet Shyam doesn't occur in Bhagwat Puran because Poet Shyam is the one adapting Bhagwat Puran.

Read it and you'll see.

Again DeraWadi translations. What about: Ang 759 Satgur Mera Sadaa Sadaa Na Ave Na Jaye Oh Abhinaasi Purakh Hai Sabh Mein Reha Samaaye My True Guru, forever and ever, does not come and go. He is the Imperishable Creator Lord; He is permeating and pervading among all. BTW, You can understand that without translations as well.

Inder, Read Bhagwat Puran and you will know. Anti Gurmat stuff? Does god incarnate? ਤਬ ਤਬ ਦੇਹ ਧਰਤ ਅਵਤਾਰਾ ॥ तब तब देह धरत अवतारा ॥ Then the Lord manifests himself in physical form; Page 413 from Dasam Granth. Waheguru does not come nor go according to Gurmat. Balbir, open chariter 110. Beer Douhoo Diss Kay Kub Shyam Mukh Ouppar Dhaalan Ko Dhurr Jootay| Baan Kmaan Dhray Muthsaan Aaparmaan Juaanan Kay Run Shootay| ...| 11| Poet Shyam says, warriors from both sides were dueling with others using their shields. Strong warriors were firing countless arrows with their bows. … 11. He clearly says KUB SHYAM. Kub means Poet and SHYAM is SHYAM. Enemy of wisdom... Don't you see that?

Poet Shyam is writer of Dasam Granth. He worshipped 4 armed Mahakaal. That is an attack on MOOL MANTAR - essence of Guru Granth Sahib Ji - itself. Mool Mantar says Waheguru is Ajooni. It says Waheguru is Akaal Moorat... Then from where do these 4 arms, anklets, etc come from? The poet worshipping a four armed creation is already enough anti Gurmat stuff. It is BASED on Bhagwat Puran. Read it, understand it and you will see! The Bible says that one shouldn't indulge in adultery, this doesn't mean that it is Gurbani, same way few things in accordance to Gurmat doesn't make it Gurbani.

1)Can you tell us who was poet shyam if not Guru ji He was some person. I am not interested in his life as he wrote anti Gurmat stuff. 2) You claim having read krishna avtar.When you say krishna avtar is translated from bhagwat puranas. What does it exactly mean It means what it means. translation = translation. What part of that word is difficult to understand? trans⋅la⋅tion   /trænsˈleɪʃən, trænz-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [trans-ley-shuhn, tranz-] Show IPA –noun 1. the rendering of something into another language or into one's own from another language. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/translation

I am not fooled one bit by that. Why? Because I have read Krishan Avtar. When Gurbani says KAHAI NANAK, its third person, isn't that the Guru Sahibaan? You have a flawed logic. What other Granth written by Krishan are you talking about? If you had enough Gyaan, you would know that it is based on Bhagwat Puran. I would rather urge you to read Bhagwat Puran itself that Poet Shyams edited translations of it. You guys really love third party stuff, don't ya?

Oral sources say a lot of stuff. Give me Puratan WRITTEN sources. I don't care about other cultures, for me only thing that matters is Sikhi and Sikh Itihas. Group of Sikhs in Africa doing same since 1900s? Which country, city and give their Gurdwara(s) address. You make no sense. Community is not equal to Panth. I think you are talking about the Punjabi community rather than Sikh Panth. Yes. Guru's hukam is IKA BANI IK GUR IKO SHABAD VEECHAR. SHABAD GURU SURAT DHUN CHELA. BANI GURU GURU HAI BANI. ~~ You do not seem to follow that. Aren't the 5 Pyaras form of Guru? Mahapurkhs? Some of your MahaPurkhs were pro Raagmala some were Anti. Many other differences. Who was right? "MahaPurkhs" aren't my Guru, Guru is Guru Granth Sahib. DG contradicting Guru Granth Sahib can NOT be 10th Nanak's writings. Yes next time and I get oppertunity, I'll surely meet Nihangs. No need to do here. You won't get many DG Chelas. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Garja Singh is also known as Mota Singh in some Puratan works. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

I know there was an adopted son called Ajit Singh Paalit. But Bhatt Vahis said SAHIBZADA Ajit Singh had a son. Ajit Singh Palit was never a Sahibzada. Only 4 sons of Guru Ji were Sahibzada's. Other adopted sons like Zorawar Singh Palit (martyred in battle) and Ajit Singh Palit weren't Sahibzadas. I don't want to take a course in poetry or literature to understand Poet Ram and Shyam's poetry. When was Sri Gur Katha discovered then? Traditional sampardas such as Nihangs also drink Mahakaal drink (cannabis) and their oral traditions are not very reliable. How do you know they have been following same routine since 1699? Yes, DO read 5 Banis in Amrit Sanchaar, but don't include Dasam Granth compositions. Read 5 Bani's from Guru Granth Sahib. Oral tradition are not academically accepted in a debate. Panth is Guru. 5 Singhs ordered Guru Ji to get out of Chamkaur Garhi, and Guru Ji obeyed that. As long as Panthic decisions are on line of Gurmat they are equal to Hukams of Guru Ji. I am not based in UK, and I am lucky that I'm not living in a country full of DG worshippers. When time comes we will remove DG from Gurdwaras all over the world, just like we removed the idols some decades back ! Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

If Bhatt Vahis are authentic then you believe that Sahibzada Ajit Singh had a son? Gur Kian Sakhian was written in 1790, 91 years after Amrit Sanchar. Tell me what other sources between those 91 years tell about the Bani's recited during the Amrit Sanchar? I can also take Bansawalinama, and say that the author's family were Diwans in Guru Ji's court and thus his account of Japji Sahib and Anand Sahib being read during Amrit Sanchar is correct. But I do not make such foolish statements. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

You are a big time joke. I ask you to give me their names. I know of their existence. I don't believe in Rehatnamas that contradict GurBani (kachehra came from Hanuman, etc). Since you are such a staunch believer of Bhatt Vahis, do you agree that Guru Gobind Singh had a grandson named Hathi Singh (son of Sahibzada Ajit Singh)? If you don't then same logic can be applied (from my part) on the 'banis recited during Amrit Sanchaar 1699'. Sri Gur Katha was discovered only recently. Any research has been conducted upon its authenticity? NO, so don't talk about that document to me. There is much chance that you never ever have seen it yourself, but your talking of it because of some posts of Bijla Singh. Same logic WILL BE APPLIED on Mahakaal, once you show me ATLEAST 1 PLACE IN SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI that uses MAHAKAAL for Waheguru. I have an open mind, that why I am anti DG. I am not the mouthpiece of anyone. Lakhwinder; "Fareeda Je Tun Akal Lateef, Tan Kaley Lekh Na Lekh, Apnarey Girehvaan Mein Sir Nivan Kar Dekh"... But you only remember "ਕੈ ਤੁਹਿ ਕਾਟਿ ਕਰੈ ਸਤ ਖੰਡਾ। ਕੈ ਦੈ ਮੋਰਿ ਭਗ ਬਿਖੈ ਲੰਡਾ। - Either I will cut you into seven pieces or place your penis (lundaa) into my vagina (bhug) - Chariter 312, Dasam Granth) And this is what your Mahakaal looks like; ਚਮਕਹਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਣੰ। ਅਭੂਤੰ ਭਯਾਣੰ। ਧੁਣੰ ਨੇਵਰਾਯੰ। ਘੁਰੰ ਘੁੰਘ੍ਰਯਾਣੰ। ੩੧। ਚਤੁਰ ਬਾਹ ਚਾਰੰ। ਨਿਜੂਟੰ ਸੁਧਾਰੰ। ਗਦਾ ਪਾਸ ਸੋਹੰ। ਜਮੰ ਮਾਨ ਮੋਹੰ। ੩੨। ਸੁਭੰ ਜੀਭ ਜੁਆਲੰ। ਸੁ ਦਾੜਾ ਕਰਾਲੰ। ਬਜੀ ਬੰਬ ਸੰਖੰ। ਉਠੇ ਨਾਦੰ ਬੰਖੰ। ੩੩। ਸੁਭੰ ਰੂਪ ਸਿਆਮੰ। ਮਹਾ ਸੋਭ ਧਾਮੰ। ਛਬੇ ਚਾਰੁ ਚਿੰਤ੍ਰੰ। ਪਰੇਅੰ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰੰ। ੩੪। He has four beautiful arms. The hair is tied in a knot on head. The mace which he has is astonishing. It intrigues the hearts of messengers of death. 32. His tongue is red; resembling fire from a volcano. His grinding teeth are scary. Drums and conches are sounding. They produce a whistling sound similar to the high tide waves in oceans. 33. His dark face looks befitting. It is the house of honorable. His look is beautiful. It is purer than it can be imagined. 34. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh