osingh1

Suryadev ji I am 100% in agreement with bhai Hari Singh. Tilak is only mentioned in relation for purpose of Gurgaddi. Even the example you mention is for purpose of giving Raaj to Ranjit Singh. So for what purpose is Niddar singh wearing this tilak? What position has he assumed or which raaj has he acquired. The real tilak is applying the dust of the Sadh Sangat on one's forehead. Rabb Rakhe

Jaikaara ji "if the tilak is an issue than all the sikhs of Hazur sahib and Hazur Sahib itself will be a non sikh asthaan, right from applying tilak on their foreheads to tilak to the shastars of guru maharaj...i dont understand why we gettting so islamic" Recently on Sikh Channel, bhai Hari Singh Randhawa of Damdami Taksal clearly stated that this ritual of applying tilak of blood from killing of an animal is wrong. He said this problem lies with the management committee at sri Hazur Sahib. Whatever is according to Gurmat and Guru Maharaj ji's rehit we should adopt. Just because some tradition has been going on for a long time or is performed at a certain asthaan does not make it right. Rabb Rakhe

Any person from Sikh background gets excited when they see a Sikh on telivision or website, especially on s popular website such as the BBC. My cousin who is of Sikh background but not rehitvaan also showed me this on his iphone. He thought I would be interested but then I explained to him that I already know about this person. What could I say to him? How is this person a Sikh when he wears a tilak on his forehead? Also on his website he has picture of Ram ji and Sita ji. Maybe these Hindu/Sikhs may have some influence on those who do not have a good graps of Gurbani of Sikh History. Anybody that has read Gurbani and Sikh History will not be interested in the views of this group. Rabb Rakhe

What can Hardeep Singh Kohli tell us about Sikhi. This guy wears a pagh and thats about it. How can Niddar Singh be the last Sikh warrior? Kohli quote - "I find it hard to justify knives being allowed in schools – be they Sikh ceremonial symbols or otherwise" yet Niddar singh is going to an interview woth a guy that questions the kirpan? More quotes from same article in the Guradian: - "Sir Mota believes that it is wrong to stop schoolkids wearing the secreted, ceremonial dagger into school and believe that it is an infringement of a child's right to practise their religion. Let me repeat that: he thinks it's OK for kids to take knives to class." "But I'm simply not comfortable with knives being allowed into school." Strange person to be doing a story on Sikh warriors when he himself questions the Kirpan. This guy has no background in terms of rehat, knowledge on sikhism and sikh history. Is it worth doing a story just for the sake of publicity? In the article he also suggests that Kirpan was neccessary because of the situation with the Mughals. It frustrates me when members of our own community question our Kakars, this is due to ignorance. Only Rehitvaan Sikh can appreciate the true value of Kakars like Kirpan. Outsiders just see a knife and thats it. Kirpan has practical and spiritual significance, it is used to prepare panch amrit Karah Parshad and also Amrit for Amrit Sanchar. Only Guru Sahib know the full value of our Kakars. Rabb Rakhe

I was thinking of visiting Gurdwara Akhand Parkash in December - sangrand to have darshan of Gurdwara and Giani ji. I wonder if they still do katha on Sangrand now that they are in old age? If not it looks like I will not have chance to have darshan of Giani ji. They must be one of the spiritually most advanced people on the face of this earth yet not many people know of Giani ji. They just dedicated themseleves to bhagti. I wish that Giani ji had written some literature too, they have so much gyan. The only book I know of is Gurbani Paath Darshan which was published by Giani ji and I also think they published some gutka's of Gurbani. Also on the ucharan section for bhindra, I used to think it was Giani Mohan Singh ji giving santhiya but it is not. I think it is his student - 'dhudike' giving the santhiya and answering questions. Thanks for the update veer ji, keep up the good work! Rabb Rakhe

Kam veer ji Does Giani Mohan Singh ji still do katha on Sangrand? How old are they? Giani ji published Gurbani Paath Darshan, but has Giani ji written any material themselves? Keep the good work veer ji. Although I am more inclined to arths through viakaran I still listen to arths done by Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh ji, I try and take laha from all jathebandis. Gurmatveechar is a great source for learning Gurmat. Rabb Rakhe

"Could be wrong, but I think the oldest saroop at Sri Hazur Sahib has 1430 Angs." I think it was SGPC that set the number of pages, how they came to this conclusion I don't know. Looking at puratan saroops of Guru Granth Sahib ji on PDL, page numbers vary. The only way to come to a firm conclusion is to find the original Damdami Bir. I would also like to note that there are many saroops that claim to be from Baba Deep Singh ji, however when comparing the saroops side by side they don't match in term of handwriting. There is a saroop that claims to be from Baba Deep Singh ji on PDL yet their is no indication in the actual saroop that it is written by them. Regardless, more research needs to be carried out in this area. Rabb Rakhe

Thanks for the post veer ji. For the 2nd pic it is the same likhari (writer) on both pages, the akhars on both pages match. Also the 2nd pic is of jap ji sahib, if you notice there is a bindi on top of the word kaha, in: kudrat kawan kaha vichar. This bindi is not present in the standard saroop of today yet this bindi is correct for this word and should be part of ucharan. The bindi makes this into pehla purakh/first person. This matches with the sakhi above of there being more bindi's present in the Kartarpuri Bir, it is a fact that there are more bindis present in puratan saroops. This proves that bindis need to be put in the correct places as part of gurbani ucharan. Also puratan hand written saroops vary in regards to number of pages. The page numbers were standardised when SGPC started to print saroops of Maharaj. If we had the Damdami Bir a lot of questions could finally be answered ie Ragmala, Mangals etc More research needs to be done into puratan saroops. Anyway thanks for the pics and post any more you have. This particular saroop has clear handwriting, well done to the likhari! For me all saroops should be hand written in larivar form. Even today I think the Torah is still handwritten. Doing pad-ched was a mistake, I think Sant Samaj of that time opposed doing pad-ched of Guru Granth Sahib ji. Rabb Rakhe

"tell me more about the dates you have written ie the 2 years." You have misunderstood ji, what I meant was: 1939 - bikrami date (indian calender) 1882 - solar calender (western calender used today) This is just a guess, I have just removed a 1 to make 1939. Also the saroop has excellent handwriting, very clear akhars (letters). I am currently going through all the puratan saroops on PDL website. The only problem is that they don't have many 17th century saroops digitised at the moment, which would be interesting. Also did the saroop contain only Ragmala or were there any other additional banis such as jit dar lakh ....which in many cases procede Ragmala. Make sure you post the other pictures when you get them veer ji.

Chatanga ji I think JUMLA means total. In some tatkara I have seen JUMLA - 46 amd JUMLA - 49, in tatkara there a 46 headings, ie sri Raag, raag maajh....., therefore Total/Jumla = 46, I have also seen tatkara with again 46 headings with JUMLA - 49. I understand Jumla/Total - 46 but not Jumla/Total 49. As for date I have seen this once before but haven't worked out why there are two 1's. I can only guess the date is 1939/1882. Have you taken any pictures with words that have bindis? There is a sakhi that when sri Guru Gobind Singh ji was dictating bani for Damdami bir to bhai sahib bhai Mani Singh ji, bhai sahib noticed that there was a difference in this granth Damdami Bir in relation to Kartarpuri Bir which bhai sahib had done darshan of. He noticed that there were less bindis than in the Kartarpuri Bir. Maharaj replied by saying that GurSikhs will have to concentrate more when reading bani in order to put bindis in correct place when reading bani. This could mean that this particular granth is a copy of the Kartarpuri Bir. Rabb Rakhe

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh Muslims as kaum, in my opinion are furthest from Ekta out of all religions. Blowing up each others mosques, killing Shia pilgrims......... The criminals that perform these acts are not Muslims, same goes for all relgions. The moment a person murders an innocent person he ceases to be Sikh, Muslim, Christian etc. Unfortunately no religions have been spared from divisions. All religions have sects/divisions ie protestant/catholic, sunni/shia. However, when you step back and look, the differences between various jathas in Sikhism is quite small. Some Shia and Sunni's literally hate each other. Shia's despise Sunnis because Sunnis are oppressing Shia's in Bahrain, Saudi Arabia. Sunni's despise Shia's because of their belief in intercession of Imams and visiting graves of Imams. This is just Sunnis and Shia, nevermind the persecution that Sufi's have suffered. Having said this, not all Muslims despise each other and I greatly respect Muslims that walk on their respective paths, there are good and bad people of all faiths. There are good Sunni's, Shia's, Sufi's as there are good AKJ, Taksal, Nirmale, Missionary. I look at the karam (deeds) and gunns (qualities) of people before I look at their sect/jatha. May Guru Sahib bless Sikhs and all Dharams with Ekta. Sacha Pathshah Mehar Karo!

I hear that giani ji doesn't leave his room much and stays engaged in bhagti. I think he still does katha every Sangrand at Gurdwara Akhand Parkash, bhinder kala. In this area, gupt Mahapurakh Baba Khazan Singh ji who did massive jap tap and who was father of sant Sundar Singh ji. Here is a great article written by bhai Kulbir Singh ji of Tapaban: http://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,182 I hope one day to have darshan of this Gurmukh who is over 90 years of age but still keeps rehat to the max. It would be good to listen to any recent katha they have done and I'm sure when he does katha it is recorded. Hopefully Kam Singh veer ji can upload more katha. Rabb Rakhe

Kam1825 jeeo When will you be uploading more katha of Giani Mohan Singh ji Bhindranwale. Listening to their katha is pure anand. I know that Giani ji published 'Gurbani Paath Darshan' written by Giani Gurbachan Singh ji, but I was wondering if Giani Mohan Singh ji has written any literature himself? Does Giani ji still do katha every sangrand? Do you have any literature relating to Giani ji? Information on giani ji is scarce. It would be interesting to read anything in relation to the jeevan of Giani ji. Please reply this time bhai sahib : ) Rabb Rakhe

Suryadev ji How can you say this is wrong on part of ss.com. Sikh awareness has discussed plenty of controversial concepts. Its clear that you agree with concepts of sanatan sikhi and thats why you object to ss.com discussing it. Having a picture of Ram ji and Sita ji as opening page of a Sikh site is just strange. Why not have Gurbani? Time and time again in Gurbani, the importance is stressed on japping naam of Akal Purakh. We do not need to do puja of avtars of other dharams to reach Akal Purakh. Satguru has bless us with Naam and Gurbani. In kaljug, doing kirtan of Gurbani, Gurbani Path and simran of Gurmantar are our main tools to reach the highest destination. Firstly we should develop a good understanding of Gurbani and Rehat. At this time, parchar of fundamentals of Gurmat are required. Not niche concepts propogated through this sanatan sikhi. For me the ideology of sanatan sikhi is strange and doesn't make sense. My understanding of Gurmat is that to reach Akal Purakh one has do good karams, follow rehat of Guru Sahib, japp naam etc. Simple concepts but hard to execute. We do puja, aradhna, bhagti of Shabad Guru not devtas of other faiths. Sure we can admire certain gunns(qualities) of other avtars, prophets but our faith lies in Akal Purakh and Guru Sahiban. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

I dont see what's funny. Also the sarbloh.info is garbage and has attacked nearly every panthic jathabandi, is their any link between sarbloh.info and this shaster vidya website?

Kam1825 jeeo When will you be uploading more katha of Giani Mohan Singh ji Bhindranwale. Listening to their katha is pure anand. I know that Giani ji published 'Gurbani Paath Darshan' written by Giani Gurbachan Singh ji, but I was wondering if Giani Mohan Singh ji has written any literature himself? Does Giani ji still do katha every sangrand? Do you have any literature relating to Giani ji? Information on giani ji is scarce. It would be interesting to read anything in relation to the jeevan of Giani ji. Please reply this time bhai sahib : ) Rabb Rakhe

I sent e-mail to (Panjab Digital Library) PDL asking situation regarding digitisation of manuscripts at SGPC. I asked which particular manuscripts PDL were denied access to. Also I asked about digitisation of manuscripts from bhai Sarabjot Singh Bedi ji. I asked whether certain granths such as Kartarpuri bir could be digitised. Here is reply from recent e-mail : Vahguru ji ka Khalsa Vahguru ji ki Fateh SGPC and its staff has its own reasons, we can only create awareness and not force anybody. We will digitize only those mansucripts of which we are provided access. You understand our situation. It is good that most of the manuscripts has been digitized. The manuscript with Guru Hargobind ji's signature has been digitized. Thanks for sending list of important manuscripts. We are trying for many years to digitize these manuscripts with no success yet. All the manuscripts from the collection of Baba Sarabjot Singh ji Bedi has been digitized. We expect to upload over 2 million pages more on website next about 6 months. It depends upon the funding we get for the purpose. At the moment going tough on the funding front. You can also support PDL by adopting some books for digitization.. http://panjabdigilib.org/webuser/adopt/AdoptDocList.jsp Thank you for writing to us. Regards Parminder Singh SGPC has a huge budget, they should be helping out PDL with funds. All manuscripts should have been digitised at SGPC. Neverthless, I agree with PDL that we should appreciate the manuscripts that have been digitised. It seems as if digitisation is an expensive process but well worth it, especially after Sikh Reference Library was burnt. I hope PDL get the funding they need in order to continue their seva for panth. Guru kirpa karo. The granths I would most like to see digitised would be Kartarpuri Bir, Aad Bir Guru Arjan Dev ji dictated to bhai Gurdas ji and Goindwal pothis used by Guru Arjan Dev ji to compile Aad Granth Sahib. These Granths could be studied worldwide to see if they are authentic or not. However its unlikely custodians of these Granth's could be persuaded to have them digitised. I think it vital that they are, especially in light of the fact that other rare granths have gone missing/stolen. SGPC should be working to preserve/digitise our heritage. Guru Mehar Karan

There is a mistake in the above news article. It is not Jathedar Ram Singh of Damdami Taksal but genereal secretary of Akali Dal Maan who has switched over to Akali Dal Badal party. Here is the link- http://newspaper.ajitjalandhar.com/ Simranjit Singh Maan would definitely be the best choice for SGPC. However it seems Badal will just distribute liqour and drugs and this way win the votes required. What's sad is that Congress has more chance of winning than Sardar Simranjit Singh.

Now Badal has the support of both leaders of Taksal. Just great news for the panth.

Badal will easily win the SGPC elections. Its dissapointing that Sant Samaj have united with Akali Dal Badal party. After all the damage Badal has done to Sikh Panth he now has the support of Sant Samaj headed by Harnam Singh Dhumma. People defended Harnam Singh Dhumma when he attended funeral of Surinder Kaur (wife of Badal) saying it was out of respect and that Sant Samaj opposes Akali Dal Badal. However this is clearly not the case. Sant Samaj will be contesting seats through Akali Dal Badal. I see this as an opportunistic move on part of Sant Samaj to implement their version maryada on the panth through SGPC. This is not a panthic move and will not help the panth. Siding with Parkash Badal can never be good for the panth. http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-08-09/india/29868076_1_sant-samaj-second-list-sad-leaders and Talking to The Tribune, Jasbir Singh Rode, who is holding parleys with the SAD on behalf of the Sant Samaj, said they have demanded 30 seats from the ruling party and have twice met the SAD leadership over the last couple of days. He said they have already got Valtoha seat for their candidate Baba Avtar Singh. He, however, denied that they have sought both Sirhind and Banga seats. “We have only demanded Sirhind seat for Baba Hari Singh Randhawa,” he said. Among the other seats sought by the Sant Samaj are Budhlada for Baba Sukhchain Singh, Longowal for Baba Buta Singh and Garshshankar for Baba Charanjeet Singh. I think this all stems from Jasbir Singh Rode siding with Badal. We are living in strange times. May Guru Sahib bless the panth with victory and chardi kala. Guru Sahib Mehar Karan

Here is news link - http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Undoing-the-damage-Clergy-orders-removal-of-cement-plaster-from-Tharra-Sahib/articleshow/9536670.cms Kar sewa baba's have done good seva in Panjab. However when it comes too preserving original buildings, kar seva have been to rash and naive. When doing any work to a Gurdwara their should be proper consultation first. SGPC should overlook any work done to any Gurdwara, especially historical Gurdawara's. These sort of incidents will only give fuel to anti-baba, dera Sikhs. In this instance Kar Sewa were definetely to blame along with SGPC and Akal Takht Jathedar. At least they are going to remove the plaster from the Thahra Sahib. I don't think Kar Sewa are intentionally trying to damage our historical sites. I think its a Panjabi mentality where they think shiny marble gold things looks better. Kar Sewa needs to briefed on the importance of preserving historical structures. Rabb Rakhe

Why have Sant Samaj joined forces with Akali Dal? The current situation is very bleak. Simranjit Singh Mann has little chance of winning. That leaves Sarna and Badal! What has the panth come to. It is widely know that intoxicants are distributed during electionss. The people standing for SGPC positions are politically minded and have no spiritual mindset. Not all SGPC members must be bad their must be some good candidates but in the end Badal is the boss and he has ultimate power it seems. To make situation even worse is that Sant Samaj seem to have joined forces with Akali Dal Badal. One thing for sure is that Sant Jarnail Singh ji would never had sided with Badal. Can anybody shed more light on this, is Sant Samaj really siding with Badal, their must be more to this. Please if anyone has any more information on current situation regarding Badal and Sant Samaj please post. SGPC is a vital institution for the panth. However the institution requires a solid leader and good members. They have the capacity to revive Sikhi especially in Panjab through good parchar. SGPC should be producing Gurmat books and supporting organisations that are preaching Gurmat principles. Just look at recent beadbi taken place at sri Akal Takht Sahib with the plastering over of the historic thahra (platform of masonory)that was buit with the pavittar hands of Guru Hargobind Sahib, Bhai Sahib Bhai Gurdas ji and Baba Buddha ji. More info on http://punjabitribuneonline.com. SGPC allowed our history to be plastered over with no consultation from the panth. Singh Sahib Jathedar Gurbachan Singh has released statement saying that no liqour or intoxicants should be distributed during elections. He should be telling Parkash Badal this face to face. Yet Badal was recently given the honour of laying the foundation of new langar hall at sri Darbar Sahib in presence of Jathedar Sahib. Why do our panthic leaders support Badal, it makes no sense. I don't understand this khel of Waheguru. Maharaj! Panth Nuu Change Sache Suche Leader Baksho

'its their cult mentality.. They claim to respect the panth maryada etc yet when they dont recognise other amritdharis as equals they show their true beliefs. Its cult mentality at its worst. Kamalroop Singh did a blog on this once talkin about how they re-initiate people who have taken amrit from taksal, akal takht etc.' Amardeep ji this response is so disappointing. This 'cult' has produced Gursikhs like bhai Fauja Singh and bhai Rama Singh. Bhai Fauja Singh along with 12 other singh gave their life for Guru Granth Sahib when protesting against the nirankaris. What to say of the contribution of bhai sahib Bhai Randhir Singh who was honoured by all four takhts including Akal Takht sahib. I dont have the kamai or jeevan to write about bhai sahib so I will stop here. 'basically, their beliefs about naam dhrir are only held by akj. no one else in the panth believes that this kind of thing is required.' This is totally false. Before even AKJ was organised as a jatha, bhai Randhir Singh was japping naam with bau Mal Singh and they used swaas swaas technique. Amrit Sanchaars before AKJ used to impart swaas swaas technique. Sant Attar Singh used swaas swaas technique to japp naam (biography of Sant Attar Singh ji written by Sant Teja Singh ji): 'The methods of reciting naam (naam japan dee jugath) have been passed down from Gursikh to Gursikh. But this daas has only seen it written in two places. In Sau Sakhi its says that Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj tells Mata Jeetho Ji that the tip of the tounge (jeeb di teesy), with force (jOr naal), should touch the roof of the mouth (thaloo naal), and at all times keep saying Waheguru Waheguru. Shaheed Bhai Mani Singh, the one who sat and listened to the recitation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji by Sri Guru Gobind Singh himself, in Bhai Gurdas Ji's 'yarwee waar' in 'sheeha thay gajan dee sakhee', has written that when our breath goes in we should say 'Wahe' and when our breath goes out we should say 'guru'. So from these two sources, and from talking with maha purkhs, I have learned that there are three ways of japping naam: (1) very very slowly moving the lips and tongue say waheguru together with each breath. (2) the tip of the tounge (jeeb di teesy), with force (jor naal), should touch the roof of the mouth (thaloo naal), and (holy holy) very very slowly keep saying Waheguru. (3) with every inward breath say 'wahe' and with every outward breath say 'guru'. (4) ajapaa jaap. This come naturally and can't be explained. Our consciousness and shabad become one." ====== Many weaknesses have crept into amrit sanchars. For example amrit sanchars used to be carried infront of larivar saroops only. All handwritten saroops are larivar. Who else apart from AKJ are upholding using larivar saroops? Sant Samaj were against printed padd-chedd saroops also. G Kaur ji in my opinion refusing someone to enter a naam simran programme is wrong. However not all akj oppose people from participating in naam simran. Here are some of bhai Kulbir Singh(Tapoban) views: "The bottomline is that you can't stop people from coming to Guru Sahib's darbar. That would be manmatt." "Swaas Swaas Naam Abhyaas is done in the main diwan hall of Gurdwara Sahib and as thus no one can be stopped from coming there. Every now and then a non-amritdhari person or a non-akj person comes to abhyaas but no one is stopped. There are no pehredaars standing outside to stop anyone from coming. Whoever wants to come comes. The bottomline is that no one can imitate anyone and learn the correct way of doing Naam Abhyaas. One has to learn it directly from the Punj Pyare." I seriously can't believe the attitude towards AKJ on this forum. Just look at how much AKJ have contributed to the panth through kirtan seva and shaheedi. I would expect to hear these views on Sikh Philosophy but not on here. Amardeep ji what kind of enjoyment do gain from attacking AKJ. What have they done to hurt you? Even today, AKJ organises so many kirtan programmes, rainsbais, amrit sanchars. One thing for sure is you can attack AKJ as much as you want but you can't take away their conrtibution to the panth. Bhai Sahib spent 16 years in jail for the panth. Lets see what Sant Gurbachan Singh (Damdami Taksal) thinks of bhai sahib: Sant ji refers to bhai sahib as 'Sant' and 'Dhan Guru Piarey'. Look at how much pyaar there was between Gursikhs before as compared to now. Chall vei, if you want to keep on slandering AKJ go ahead. I doubt this will bring unity to the panth. And we wonder why this board is losing trafic....... Maharaj kirpa karan and bless the panth with chardikala. Rabb Rakhe Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

I think Guru Maharaj was the shakti behind previous avtars. For example when Dropadi/Panchali's honour was saved when Dushasana under the orders from his brother, Duryodhna attempted to remove all of her clothes. Her honour was saved, they couldn't remove all of her clothes. According to Mahabharata it was sri Krishan that saved Dropadi, but according to Gurbani it was Guru jyoti - Guru form, that saved her honour. Guru maharaj worked through sri Krishan ji or directly to save her Dropadi's honour. Sri Raam ji and Sri Krishan ji however are not pooran avtars and made mistakes. Just reading bhatta de swaiye one realises the greatness of Guru Sahiban. As bhai Gurdas ji states it is sri Satguru Baba Nanak ji that has come in kaljug to guide bhagats to salvation. Also I think it is relevant to mention that Dropadi did receive udhaar, mukhti in the sense that her honour was saved. This doesn't mean she was delivered into Sachkhand. There are many levels of udhaar, maybe one gives up drugs and alcohol through abhiyaas of naam and baani, this is one type of udhaar. When sri Prahlaad was saved from his father, when sri Kabir ji was saved from drowning etc There are different levels of udhaar. The highest udhaar is to reach Sachkhand. I have no doubt that sri Prahlad and sri Dhroo are residing in Sachkhand. Many rishis, sufis, sadhus etc may have been reborn and recieved khande de pahul or charan amrit from Guru Sahiban and in this way reached Sachkhand. Also Guru Sahib may have also given naam to bhagats prior to 1469 in gupt form. However now we know for sure that Guru Nanak has come in Kaljug. Bhai Gurdas ji has clearly stated that Guru Nanak dev ji recieved naam directly from Akal Purakh in Sachkhand, look at my previous post. Again, I ask the question which other prophet or avtaar recieved this honour? May Guru Sahib bless this insect and fellow forum members with Gurmat Naam. Rabb Rakhe

'Gurbani mentions dhroo prahlad etc to be gurmukhs, how does that make sense when Guru Nanak only took birth in 1469?' Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj has been existence before 1469. Guru Nanak dev ji is the guru-form of Waheguru, therefore he has been existence since aad, right from the beginning. Again Guru Nanak dev ji is 'sabb te vadda', none other than Sri Guru Arjan dev ji says this. Now at this present time Guru Granth Sahib is Guru in this age of Kaljug. As bhramgiani bhai sahib bhai Gurdas ji states: ਕਲਿ ਤਾਰਣ ਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਆਇਆ Guru Nanak came to redeem kaljug ਬਾਬਾ ਪੈਧਾ ਸਚਖੰਡਿ ਨਉ ਨਿਧਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਗਰੀਬੀ ਪਾਈ Baba reached the region of truth wherefrom he received Nam, the storehouse of nine treasures and humility. Guru Nanak recieved naam from Sachkhand. What more is there to say. Tell me which other avtar, prophet received naam from sachkhand. Dhan Dhan Guru Nanak Dev ji! We do not need any other religion to guide us to Sachkhand the highest spritual abode. In the end Satguru Nanak has shown us the path to Sachkhand. May Guru Sahib to do kirpa and bless this insect with Gurmat Naam. Maharaj mehar karan (I make a benti that when discussing these topics lets refrain from attacking religions or attacking each other. These are the debates we should be having. Even though we might disagree with each other I still respect memebers on this forum. In the end we all have love for Guru Nanak Dev ji, we can all agree on this.)