Morpheous

Gurfateh peeps i think the site has some advantages - however these are heavily outweighed by the MAMMOTH CLOSSUS of disadvantages. You guys seem to have pointed out the main fallacies concerning www.whyichosesikhism.com, its great to see you guys exercising your critical thinking skills! My suspicions about the site started with the web address, Why i Chose Sikhism ? This itself is contrary(in my humble opinion) to the teachings of the Guru, in the sense that SIKHI CHOSE US, this whole perception of us making the choice actively to become a sikh is an illusion - i would love to back this point with some solid quotes from Guru Ji however my limted knowledge does not allow me to do so off the top of my head - i will try to provide aquote for this. Furthermore we must COLLECTIVELY URGE THE WEBMASTER TO WITHDRAW THE 'FALLACIES OF ISLAM' SECTION, WHO ARE WE TO JUDGE A RELIGION? WE MUST BE HIGHER THAN THE RELGION ITSELF TO JUDGE IT! Ill put it bluntly - the section PROVIDES FUEL FOR FUNDIMENTALIST MUSLIMS BECAUSE IT SHOWS INSECURITY ! CAN YOU IMAGINE A NON SIKH READING THE CONTENTS OF THAT SITE - WHAT SORT OF IMPRESSION WOULD IT GIVE ?!!!! IT IS FULL OF NEGATIVITY AND SUPPORTS DIVISION AMONG RELIGION IN FACT IT EVEN SAYS; 'Sikhism is the only faith which shows the path to realisation of Akaal (timeless god)' the ONLY FAITH ?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that provides a link to the timeless, NONESENSE! it sounds like a FUNDI CHRISTIAN OR MUSLIM CHATTING !!!!!!!!! ask yourself honestly - has god given us a monopoly so that we can only access him?!! what happened to all the people before sikhism - did they not realise god - ie buddha..........? Please peeps, we need to make a combined effort to sort this site out before it deludes the youth - Harpreet ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mod note: Please, don't use "CAPS' because in internet world it is known as shouting and in order to present your point you don't need to yell. Thanks!

What about souls and re-incarnation then ? If everything else is going round in cycles why not souls ? - plants, oxygen, nitrogen, water, sun, stars, what about the souls? are they not in a cycle, because everything else seems to be ?

paaji - the question of all these religions - well i may be able to give you my angle - whether it helps or not ...... who knows!? Erm, why are religions formed ? well hmmmm My personal(nothing is personal about this view, this is an introductory bootstrap - all borrowed knowledge) view is that it all depends as to what you define as a religion If you say religion is a search for the truth - righteousness - dharam - then there is only 1 religion - - TRUTH And using 'ik hai fir anek hai' - this is from Jaap Sahib - composed by the Tenth Nanak - one tranlsation for this line is Oneness in manyness and manyness in oneness - or even unity in diversity, diversity in unity Therfore we could say that God(the existance) can be REALISED in numerous ways because he(the existance) is so diverse And important the common element within all these methods being the search for the TRUTH - which exists in everything Perhaps we could use this analogy - a maala - it has different bead(religions) but the same thread runsthroughout it(Truth) So from the above we can deduce that the message of True Religion is Constant - this leads to the question - why so many religions? One arguement could be that the prophets were sent by God(the existance) to inform lost souls how to get home Different religions were formed because the prophets were born in different times and places - cultures influenced the way in which the path was practiced etc For instance - Visualize 2 men they have different clothes (representing different religions) - but the bodies they are made up of still consists of the SAME ELEMENTS. The difference in clothes can be explained, they come from difference places and time zones! Hmm... perhaps that aided your cause.... Gurfateh

Someone once said this to me Harpreet: 'prove the existance of god !' Uncle: (Smiles) - ' you are a funny boy, well, tell me one thing HARpreet, do you exist?' Harpreet:(Confused expression on his face) - 'well yes, of course' Uncle: So you also agree that in order for you to exist there must be a existance ? Harpreet: (still baffled) - well yes i suppose Uncle: (Smiles again) - the existance is sometimes known as HAR ............... HAR - some people refer to that as god too - in fact - your name has HAR in it . I dont know what you guys make of that but to me it made perfect sense. Gurfateh PS please forgive me for my silly comments - as i am clinically thick

Sorry singh didnt mean to offend you Please forgive, sorry for not answering your question

fair point - what page is this on ?

Here here Niranjana !

Cool ! numerous names but not one particular name - sounds cool

Hmm Singh you got me thinking man ! In Jaap sahib it says many times 'aname' hai ! nriname hai! To my understanding - that means god has no name ? I suppose waheguru means different things to different people - To me it means 'wow dispeller of darkness' ! But then again im dead so i wouldnt take my word for it ! A wise man once told me there is no name of god - look at Guru Gobinds Singhs Jaap Sahib - he then went on to say - Harpreet people say that a child is doing simran in the mothers womb right? i said yes he then said - do you think he is japping waheguru ? i said no- 'how could s/he possibly know of that mantra - He then smiled And that was that! Thoughts please Rupz

Singh i think i got the wrong end of the stick in my understanding of Nirankaar - Tell me what you think - could you see it as without a particular form ? rather than with no form? Because if you say without form then thats like saying that God cant exist in most object because most objects have no form hunna ? whereas with you say with no PARTICULAR form then God can exist but not exist in the same place and the same time - you get me ? I think i may be losing it here - please help! Harpers

please sir correct me if i am wrong - there appears to be a mistake of fact; Adi Granth was complied 400 yrs ago wasnt it ? Guru Granth Sahib jiwas complied by Guru Gobind Singh Maharaj in 1706 - Bhai Mani Singh being the scribe One may inquire, ' what is the different between the two?' To what ive heard there are two main differences between the Adi Granth and SGGS 1. In SGGS there has been the addition of the Sopurakh in rehraas sahib 2. Guru Tegh Bahadurs Bani has been added to SGGS by Guru Gobind Singh Ji - it is not in Adi Granth I read this somewhere but i cant pin point the source - Sangat please rectify me so i can discard it from my memory.

It says nowhere in Gurbani to do paat 5 times a day. We have become Sikhs of Men not the Guru Ask yourself who is the Guru ? the panth ? you seen the state of them ? Guru for me is SGGS Singh its a good question - doing paat 5 times a day? - you tell me - forget what anyone else says - you have the answer inside you - take this thought for instance If your doing paat 5 times a day how on earth will you find time to reflect upon it ? Bani becomes dead - you just do it like a robot - we become like sheep The Doctor(Guru) has given us(sikhs) a prescription - we have then made numerous copies of that precription(Gutkahs) and then put it in our pockets - in the morning we READ THE PRESCRIPTION BACK OUT TO THE DOCTOR - how foolish are we - take the medicine! BANI IS ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IN ORDER FOR BANI TO BE ALIVE IN US WE HAVE TO WAKE UP! TRY TO GET HOLD OF YOUR MIND FIRST! One asks, how is this done - well sir, you find the steering wheel of your mind! what is that ? YOUR BREATH - what about it - observe it - become the witness - witness how the breath occurs automatically, without thought, without you na am japo Without I - without Ego When your thought runs away - take a deep breath - timelessness - egolessness - thoughtlessness Once you have developed this focus type meditation - read Mool Mantar - you will FEEL it - you wont be SAYING it you will be FEELING it Then you will begin to develop your own understanding of bani - it will be alive because you will be alive ! The above method sounds better than doing 5 banis to me? perhaps you guysstill prefer sticking to the 'Guru panths' maryada - please not the panth is the gurus - based on gurus teachings - you seen yourself what goes on thier - so are they really the 'gurus panth'? NAUJWAN ITS TIME TO WAKE UP AND BECOME ALIVE! Gurfateh Pls note i have nothing against people cussing my views - because they are not mine - im still dead ! my knowledge is borrowed - bani is not alive in me yet - so feel free to cuss me ! If we wake up then our knowledge will be alive and GROWING NOT DEAD Muah i love you peeps xxx

It is this writers contention that its not quantity - its quality you could do 6,000,000 paats - doing paats will make your ego bigger - page 476 SGGS - why not get one shabad and swallow it ? Why lick the cup on the outside(mechnical reading and repetition) - why not drink the water inside it ?(meditate on the shabad, contemplate it !) 1 swallowed shabad = infinite mechanical paats Food for thought perhaps Gurfateh

gurfateh sangat ! Todays talk was mind blowing - we will stick up the audio in the next couple of days - watch this space !!! Gurfateh

here you go email me at the sikhstudent@hotmail.com for further information Wednesday 4th Feb Queen Mary university Engineering Building, Room 324 - 3rd floor - MS Cheema talk - on meditation - unconventional techniques The talk will be held in the 3rd Floor of the Engineering building in room 324. The Engineering building is at the mile end campus (see below). Underground The College is within a five minute walk of both Mile End station (Central, District, and Hammersmith & City lines) and Stepney Green station (District, and Hammersmith & City lines). · Mile End station is east of the College on the opposite side of the Mile End Road. Turn left out of the station and cross Burdett Road and Mile End Road at the traffic lights, continue along Mile End Road until you reach the College buildings on the right. The Engineering building is on the top of Bancroft Road. · Stepney Green station is to the west of the College. Turn left out of the station, cross Globe Road and continue along Mile End Road. The East London line runs from south of the Thames (New Cross station) and terminates at Whitechapel station, where there is a connection to Stepny Green and Mile End stations gurfateh

kidha muggers! I should have the time and location(lecture theatre) by tomorrow night- watch this place about 11pm Friday night for final details, its going to It will be at Queen MAry University of London, Mile End Road, Mile End E1 Central Line and District Line Station:Mile End we will confirm the other details tomrrow when the uni let us book a room, til then Gurfateh

i would like to withdraw theabove comment - please forgive - i have no knowledge in this subject - sowee

why are you trying to dicuss something which cannot be put into words ?

P S Get ready for Fishes, the ocean and the salt x

Gurfateh seekers of the truth... Mr Cheema is coming to our University next week(gurkirpa) We will try to record the talk and we'l upload it, look out for the lin in a week or two x waheguru

Gurfathe peeps, i would like to submit the booklet written by M S Cheema(Romford) called the Paradox of Evil. Cheema uncle appears on a weekly basis on Sukh Sagar Rado - channel 900(Sky - uk) Saturdays from about 10 to 11 - a very deep guy - http://www.sikhifm.com/sikhismevil.htm Waheguru

Gurfathe peeps, in relation to your dicussion i would like to submit the following extract taken from a booklet written by M S Cheema(Romford) called the Paradox of Evil. Cheema uncle appears on a weekly basis on Sukh Sagar Rado - channel 900(Sky - uk) Saturdays from about 10 to 11 - a very deep guy - also visit http://www.sikhifm.com/sikhismevil.htm for full booklet Chapter V PART 1 - IS THE WILL FREE? Apparently it seems that the will IS free. That is, we choose whether to be good or bad because the individual has control over his behaviour. The word ‘will’ itself suggests that when we exercise will there are forces working against what we want to do and we have to exercise our personality to execute the task. Let us find what personality is. After all our behaviour is our personality in action. During our development our inherited propensities act and react with the environment and consequently the foundation of the personality is laid and the evolution continues. The process is seldom uniform and a far cry from integration. The analysis of the personality shows that different shades of personalities are produced and during the development of ourselves we often find that to more or less similar solutions our response is different and sometimes we are surprised what one is; one or multi-individual! For example if one is in a crowd the personal behaviour is suppressed and the leader controls one's behaviour with powerful slogans charged with emotions. The leader makes us to do, what ordinarily, we cannot even dream of doing. During riots one can be very cruel or brave and so on. The variable company results in very different behaviour. On further reflection of the behaviour we find that we have not got one personality but we have got several personalities and sometimes there is conflict between the personalities that creates tension in our mind. A personality can have two or move equally strong components and if the tension is great, the uniting thread of the individual ruptures or breaks and results in a ‘split personality’. Thus our basic concept of the personality shatters. Therefore the idea of ‘a’ personality becomes very illusive and consequently ‘a’ personality brought into action (that is the behaviour) becomes illusive and it becomes difficult to calculate the resultant behaviour or to find which personality has a free ‘will’. The subject seems to be growing in complexity and situations beyond our control eliminate the idea of ‘a’ free ‘will’. Now let us make it a bit simple. A personality is formed by the action and reaction of one's propensities (in heritance) to the environment. Let us say a wrestler’s son is likely to be a wrestler because he inherited strong physique from his father and the father provides optimum environment both physically and mentally. This motivates him to do excercise and nourishes the body thus a wrestler is produced. On the other hand a wrestler's son may become an orphan at a very early age and he is brought up by a father who encourages him and provides him an environment to become a scholar. He goes to the library and reads books which cater for an intellectual and at home the topics discussed are intellectual in nature. The result is likely to produce an intellectual rather than wrestler. On further examination we find it difficult to assess how for the inheritance (H) or the environment (E) will affect. It is impossible to detach either of the factors of ‘H’ & ‘E’. At most, we can say that a person is a product of inheritance and environment. Thus: Person = H xE Now let us see the nature of each of them separately. No-body had a choice to select the parents. They had been already selected before birth. Whether either parent was healthy, or either or both of them were weak or strong. Whether either of them had white skin, brown or black and so on and the list of variance may be enormous and each of the characteristics is likely to bring variation in the development of the personality resulting into no choice in the behaviour because after all, behaviour is personality in action. Now let us examine the environment (E). The factor of the environment starts from birth. The mother's environment, financial, social and religious, affects her mind and it in turn affects the child's placing amongst the siblings and the interactions which largely depend upon the siblings is beyond the child's control. So it affects his/her future personality. At school, which teachers teach, what they teach, how they teach; inspire, dictate, be indifferent or enthusiastic, their behaviour can be versatile and variable. It is beyond his choice and hence the development. Though somewhat predictable, this is beyond one's choice. We have seen the whole environment is beyond his control. We have seen that both ‘H’ and ‘E’ are beyond one’s control then how on earth their product ‘H x E’ will be under their control. Whatever personality has been formed it is not one's choice, so personality in action can never be one's choice and the question of a free will is simply an illusion and hence it seems clear that one who has a ‘free will’ is over simplification on unconscious display of ignorance of the believer. CHAPTER VPART 1 - FREE WILL IN VARIOUS RELIGIONSModern Christianity believes in ‘free will’. However the ancient did not. Saint Paul was the closest associate of Jesus; who writes that ‘If I want to do good, I find only doing some thing bad. It is only by His Grace that I can do good." So where is the free will? It is only His grace.Hindu scriptures fluctuate between ‘free will’ and ‘His Grace’ and in depth it is only his grace.In Islam, Muslims means one who voluntarily surrenders his will to Allah. Once the will is surrendered it belongs to Allah so the will is not free for him to be used.In Buddhism the first step is to surrender to the Arhants or the Buddha’s. So question of free will is finished at the beginning. In Judaism when Moses went to see God, he was asked to leave the shoes behind and along with the shoes he left behind his will and only His Grace prevailed.In Sikhism, Guru Nanak Dev Ji’s philosophy revolves around 'Gurparsad' – the Gurus Grace.Thus on deeper understanding of the religions we find that the ‘free will’ is absent. It is only His Grace but because of the difficulty in explaining the paradox, Hindus created Maya (illusion) Christians created Satan, and Muslims created Satan but the reality is otherwise; No free will. Does it mean we are only robots? CHAPTER 5PART 3 - ARE WE THE ROBOTS?In order to understand it we have to understand the Existence. We are part of the Existence. Once we surrender to the Existence (Hari) we start playing in His team. Those who do not surrender they live in illusion and say ‘I do it’. On meditation we ultimately find that there is nothing like ‘I’ in our body and together with that the misconception of ‘my’, ‘mine’ and ‘me’ disappears.To the degree where we discard of ego, we are happy and we are members of Hari’s team and the vice versa is true as well.It is only by dissolving our ego we are happy and enjoy His Grace and vice Versa. So the sooner we lose the idea of ‘free will’ the better will be the degree to which we surrender our will so we are nearer to God. This ‘will’ is the insulation which apparently separates us from God. As the wall of ego starts dissolving, the Grace starts becoming effulgent and whatever we wish, it is granted. However I must admit that it is difficult to explain in words; it is to be experienced and enjoyed. Again it is finally a paradox. Those who surrender free will voluntarily merge with God and their ‘will’ prevails. Those who do not surrender are shuttle cocked between success and failure. The idea of free will and ego act as a thorn in the foot - and they suffer as they move. The wicked shaaktas, the faithless cynics, do not know the Taste of the Lord's Sublime Essence. The thorn of egotism is embedded deep within them. The more they walk away, the deeper it pierces them, and the more they suffer in pain, until finally, the Messenger of Death smashes his club against their heads. ||2|| (Kirtan Sohilla)So the comfort and enjoyment lies in surrendering the ‘will’. Accepting the idea of ‘free will’ very likely generates arrogance false pride and inflated ego.

I agree it i not mandatory to take Amrit. It appears that you seem to know a lot about Guru Nanak Dev ji's teachings.... So, in Japuji Sahib Ji Guru ji makes numerous references to 'Sunnai', Guru ji often stresses the important of listening( to the guru) and subbmitting to his hukam(some people consider this to be 'cosmic law')and becoming a slave help us listen! In fact Guru Ji takes this a step further, he offers us the secret to achieve this, to put it simply, drop your ego and you will be able to listen and submit to hukum! So how does this link in with Amrit? Well, many consider it to be a gift, in the sense that when taking Amrit you are accepting death( to your ego), you effectively chop your head off and place it aside. Only then you feel the full fruit of Guru's teachings, why? Because once you chop your head off and place it aside only then can you truly listen So you could say that AMRIT IS UNIQUE AND A GIFT FROM GURU JI! and its designed to act as a ego basher!(Although it had adverse effect on some Amritdharis - mainly due to lack of understanding of gurubani) Furthermore, in my opinion, i think TRUE AMRIT occurs for people who have love for Guru Ji(now in the form of Guru Granth Sahib Ji). They read and absorb bani, and think to themselves WOW!(waheguru), they fall in love with Guru Ji! When you fall in love with someone you may notice that when they are present your focus is entirely on them! you dont even think about yourself because they are sooooo beautiful! Similary, people fall so much in love with guru ji that they begin to forget about themselves, their ego drops, hence the THIRST FOR AMRIT GROWS, they WANT TO GIVE THEIR HEAD !!! 'Oh Waheguru,dispeller of darkness, i love you! I dont care about me! im a blind child without your guidance! TAKE MY HEAD PLEASE' Guru Ji's gift!!!! and we are considering it to be a chore!! We are considering it to be an Issue a BURDEN!!! THAT IS OUR PROBLEM - !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! True Amrit is the key to success(spiritual) in Kalyug!!!!! AND WE SIKHS HAVE GURU JI and AMRIT!!! IF HE ASKS US TO KEEP HIS HAIR SO WHAT THE HELL!!! ALL THE FRUITS HE HAS GIVEN US, HE AS NEVER TURNED HIS BACK ON US!!!! DO YOU THINK HE WOULD EVER DO SOMETHING DETRIMENTAL TO US!!! NO!!! PS IM NOT A AMRITDHARI and feel hurt when people(who havebeen forced to take amrit) make it seem like a chore! how can you force people to take amrit! CAN YOU FORCE SOMEONE TO LOVE SOMETHING! NO THAT IS ANOTHER PROBLEM; so we N30 Singh we have lackof understanding of BANI Results in Lack of understanding in Amrit

WJKKWJKF hey there, i cut my hair, and i can tell you why. I have recently starting getting into sikhi. About a year ago i was under the impression that the turban was a culteral thing and thought it didnt really effect your spirituality. Additionally, nobody in my family kept their hair, therefore as a kid i when i was growing up i saw neither my dad or my baba wearing turbans and consequently i didnt really consider them to be important. Furthermore, the gorae at school used to call my Singh mates with patkae on "buns heads" and to be honest i didnt want to get the piss taken out of me. Oh, how could i forget i was convinced boys with turbans had problems pullin. Thats why i cut my hair. I have now come to realise the fact that the above arguements for cutting are indeed fundementally flawed, they are based on vanity, fear from social isolation and reflect ignorant aswell as a weak attitude. The last time i cut my hair i nearly cried, i was sitting there on the hair dressers chair i shut my eyes. When i opened them there were tears in my eyes, i saw Bhai Taru's painting in my head and asked myself what the hell am i doing? By cutting our hair what are we doing? --- from what i experienced that day i will summerise -- we are turning our back on our Gurus. We are turning our backs on the beautiful sikhs who gave thier lives rather than cut their hair! NOW WE ARE GOING TO MUSLIM HAIR DRESSERS AND PAYING THEM TO CUT OUR HAIR! so to the pahjis who ask why we cut our hair? Cos we are cowards, ignorant and weak. Lets grow back our hair and become Singhs! Brave, Intellects with big strong hearts! Waheguru ji ka khasla Waheguru ji ki fateh !