Narsingha

Sorry, the email server has been playing up...trying to get it sorted.. www.shastarvidiya.org/htmls/akhara_locations.html has the details of the location of the Slough Akhara. If you have any trouble, you can check out the map at www.streetmap.co.uk. Turn up (Saturdays 1.30pm start for men)

Singh47, you may wish to ask the Nihangs in India WHY they do what they do. It appears you are very clued up on the activites of the Nihangs in India so please share the information with us. Perhaps we can all learn from your research. With regards to techniques, if you wish to discuss them, please turn up to one of the Akharas and we can happily discuss them in depth.

http://www.shastarvidiya.org/htmls/akhara_locations.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------

N30, the Nihangs aware of Shastar Vidiya who do gatka will admit that their art is for entertainment and they wont market it as the REAL fighting art. Even Nihang Singhs such as Akali Nihang Baba Santa Singh, and Baba Gurbachan Singh Khalsa 'Bhindrawaley', himself a one time Budha Dal Nihang Singh have made that distinction in the past. If you disagree, then I suggest you take it up with the Nihang Gatkabaj you know, and let them know about Nihang Niddar Singh or send them to Akali Nihang Baba Santa Singh. That seva would be appreciated. Is it so difficult for people to understand the concept of Hadh Torh? The Hadh Torh Challenge is not for entertainment/sports or personal gain. As explained (countless times), it is for the betterment of the Khalsa battle arts. The art is designed for combat and the battlefield, but skill is improved and perfected by sparring according to the traditions of the KHALSA. No disrespect is meant to the competitors as they are skilled in their own right and possess great virtues and skills based upon their own style of martial arts. However, UFC is not adhere to Khalsa traditions. It is a media event designed for personal gain of the competitors (status, prize money, ego), entertainment and is classed as a sport (hence it appearing on sports channels). Rather than arguing about Shastar Vidiya, why not learn it, and if you dont agree with the views regarding the Hadh Torh Challenge then enter the UFC yourselves....rather simple isnt it?

The "Hadh Torh" challenge violates a lot of the media fighting championship rules (eg, eye gouging, groin attacks, weapons). These lead to permanent damage in many cases and are hence banned. In Shastar Vidiya, the fighters expect such damage to occur, and as such breed humility and respect...this is a tradition that is carried forward from Kyshatriya Maryada. The Khalsa fighting arts are distinct, include weapons such as karas, salotars too. As Akali Nihang Guru Gobind Singh ji said, the Khalsa is distinct (Niara) and as long as that distinction remains, then the Khalsa will succeed with His blessing. If we dilute, mix and match, or alter the arts of the Khalsa (eg, gatka) from their original form to suit others, then we loose our distinctiveness. Its also an insult to Guru Maharaj...

Shastar Vidiya is a killing combat art...not for entertainment/sports/personal gain.... You have gatka for that...

Singh47, please ask the "real" Nihangs what the term "KULLAH BAANA" is and what it implies. Perhaps it may shed some light on your prejudice. In addition, I dont think that you are monitoring the Nihangs in the UK 24/7 to state that they do not eat Chatka meat. Its always dangerous to generalise and draw assumptions based upon sheer ignorance. Please let us know what information you uncover...we await the results of your findings.

Singh47, please do present more information with regards to "real" Nihang practices, along with sources (if possible). Perhaps you can educate us all with the ways of the "real" Nihangs... Thank you in advance...

Actually, as a side point, I posed the question regarding DamDami Taksal's lineage a while ago and asked for evidence of this prior to Damdami Taksal Ithihas Sankep and received no reply. As far as historical records go, the existance of Damdami taksal at Metha is dubious before Baba Kartar Singh Bhindrawaley's sanctioned text. In short, where is the evidence (written or otherwise) that traces DamDami taksal's lineage to Akali Nihang Guru Gobind Singh ji? Piara Singh Padam's text listing historical Sikh jathas and sampardas, and even Mahan Kosh does not mention the existance of Damdami taksal which modern Taksalis claim to be linked to Akali Nihang Baba Deep Singh Shaheed.

http://www.shastarvidiya.org/htmls/keski_introduction.html ...more coming soon on the 'K's and Nihang uniform...

As a general point, musclebound hunks are easiest to kill within Shastar Vidiya. Execssive strength or muscle bulk is more a disadvantage when it comes to combat with weapons.... ..one needs balance of strength, flexibility, agility, balance, stamina...but most of all needs sharpness of mind and intellect. Without the mind, muscle becomes a waste...excessive muscle becomes an excessive waste...

There is more to being a "Nihang" than getting registered, or carrying licences, or eating meat and wearing baana. These are "novelties" to those newly introduced to the Nihang ideology. Just ensure this isnt the reason for wanting to join the Dal Panth. From speaking to numerous veteran Nihang Singhs, being a "Nihang" is a state of internal Yudh...the mind becomes Yudhbhoomi and destruction and chaos are sought (for without these you cannot obtain order). What I say may be overvcritical but sadly most "Nihangs" within the UK and West in general still adopt "ferengi sikhi" attitudes but convince others they are now "Sanatan" or "Nihang" simply because they have taken Amrit from the Budha Dal (or Tarna Dal). These individuals are easy to spot. There are a different kinds of Nihang Singhs depending on the duty they have been given, their character and their past. For example, some prefer being single, some marry, some remain deattched from society. What brings them together is Dharam Yudh... Caveat Emptor.. as within every Army/Socio-Political order in the world, there are many dark elements within Nihang Dals..and nothing is what is seems.

Have a look at the Sarbloh.info and Shastarvidiya.org websites. The latter is searchable using the Google engine. The Sanjamkiriya.org website will be up later this year and provide an online resource for health/training/spiritual techniques, etc based on Akali Nihang Khalsa training regimes and Ayurdeva. There's a lot more coming, but given the vast scope of the projects involved we ask that you be patient....

Just a small query, which "Panth" are you referring to exactly? Within mainstream Sikhi for example, there are many groups who consider themselves as being "part of the Panth" yet differ in significant ways, eg, Taksalis, AKJ, Singh Sabhias (the majority), numerous Sants and their respective followers, Nishkam Sevak Jatha, 3HO, etc etc. Then you have others such as Naamdharis, Ramgharias, Ravidasis who are not affiliated with any organisation other than their own. Their views on Sarbloh Guru Durbar are not clear as they have no official position to my knowledge. Finally the Sanatan (traditional) Sikhis such as Nihangs, Nirmalas, Seva Panthis and Udhasis who do not recognise the authority of the S.G.P.C or their progeny. The Sanatan Sikhs who's sampardas are blessed by the Gurus themselves accept Dasam and Sarbloh Guru Durbar as Gurbani unquestionably. Once again, please clarify who's perspective you are speaking on behalf of.

From past experience, there will be people who will find the following information unpalatable due to their own prejudice towards Akali Nihang practices. Some will even accuse Nihang Singhs of being "Hindu" and agents of the RSS....once again, the result of hatered and ignorance. The "Farla" is a sacred Akali Nihang institution. This, like almost every other Akali Nihang tradition will probably get stolen and abused by non-nihangs in the future who will claim that it is theirs... As Akali Nihangs are considered as "Shiv Swaroop" (the very form of Shiva), the Farla represents "Ganga Mata". Just as Shivji has Ganga sprouting from his hair, so too, the Akali Nihangs (representing Shiv Swaroop) have the Dark Blue Farla atop their dumallas. The "Aad Chand" (half-moon cresent) adorned by Akali Nihangs ALSO represents Shivji and Parvati in union, ie, the trishul (trident) of Shivji. In addition, with regards to the Farla : 1) It is, and was historically given out by the Jathedar of the Budha Dal (like it or not), and no one else. Today, the "Farla" is given out by 96 Crore Jathedar Singh Sahib Akali Nihang Baba Santa Singh Ji 2) It represents transition from a "Nihang Singh" to an "Akali Nihang Singh"/"Mahakal" Singh through service (traditionally a minimum of 14 years) 3) It also represents the "Neela" (dark blue) Budha Dal Nishaan Sahib (various Sakhis that confirm this). Nishaan Sahibs of the Budha Dal are spears, and are therefore weapons. The Akali Nihang Singh, with his Dumalla covered in weapons becomes a walking Nishaan Sahib. It is reserved for those who have taken amrit from the Akali Nihang Singh Khalsa Panth. Once a Nihang Singh has accepted the Farla and becomes an Akali Nihang Singh, traditionally he would remain celibate, eat ONLY Jhatka Meat, Bibecki Rehit (food only made by himself or Ardasia Sikhs) and have Shaheedi Degh made according to Akali Nihang Singh maryada. There will be an article coming shortly on www.shastarvidiya.org regarding the K's that will delve further into this and provide AMPLE quotes, both historical and scriptural. Thats all for now..

Oh dear... Mr Singh, before commenting on other people's character and employment status, please polish up on your basic comprehension skills. It appears that you suffer from a severe form of foot-in-mouth disorder. It seems to be contagious... Bhai Desa Singh's Rehitnama is what you quoted from initially as evidence for what a Sikh should adhere to. This was YOUR choice. I simply provided more material from the SAME source (with references to the Rehitnama itself). So techinically, were we to employ Bhai Desa Singh's Rehitnama as you suggest, we should all TOLERATE Chatka, Shaheedi Degh, Apheem, and Dasam Guru Durbar, etc, etc, as being inherent within a Sikh's life. You now claim the rehitnama has "weird sections" simply because certain sections do not agree with your views on what a Sikh can and cannot do, or perhaps because you lack the necessary knowledge to correctly interpret and contextualise the document. Furthermore, are we to assume you now acccept Macleod's opinions on Sikh documents by airing his views on Bhai Desa Singh's Rehitnama, or you picking and choosing again? There is not much point discussing anything with you, Mr Singh, because time and again as you have proved (on many forums) that you ignore anything that doesnt fit in with your dogma, still continue to argue and asking for more proof anytime your bubble is burst. When it comes to the crunch, insults prevail... I am sure such methods of debate work well on other forums where subjective opinion devoid of truth are given more weight over truth, historical and scriptural evidence, or logic and reason. Enjoy the debate... PS. Should you wish to make any clever remarks in order to save face, please feel free to do so...

Ah Yes, the famous "Bhai Desa Singh's Rehitnama", used by many groups to justify their use of "Sarbloh" cooking vessels.... Bhai Desa Singh also mentions the following in his Rehitnama: With regards to Cannabis and Opium: "One ratti of Opium and massa of Cannabis. Eat them always happily. Increase drug take more than this. Increase of drug intake then mansuffers." ...from 'Rehitnameh', edited by Piara Singh Padam, Pa.148 ("ratti" = 8-grain weight of rice, "massa" = 3 ratti) With regards to alcohol: "Dohra - Another's wife, gambling, falsehood, theft, alcohol - know these to be the five vices in the world, he who forsakes them, know him to be a Singh. If going to battle drink alcohol. Any other day do not mention its name." ...from 'Rehitnameh', edited by Piara Singh Padam, Pa.149 With regards to Chatka: "If you eat a goat then do so after Chatka only." ...from 'Rehitnameh', edited by Piara Singh Padam, Pa.148 With regards to Adi Guru Durbar and Dasam Guru Durbar: "The scripture that is in both Granths, memorise" ...from 'Rehitnameh', edited by Piara Singh Padam, Pa.149

Maybe a minor correction is in order... What you had was not "shaheedi degh", you had "Shardaee". Shardaee is taken all around India as a nonm-intoxicating protein drink just as in the West we would have a cup of chai. Shaheedi Degh made according to Akali Nihang Singh Khalsa maryada has CANNABIS (hence it being called "DEGH", the DEGH referring to the cannabis!!) in it....5 leaves to be exact.

Guess this kinda poster would appeal to those conditioned by ideals of modern society. If a muscle-bound weight lifter who's overdosed on steroids and wearing a turban is one's idea of a "Khalsa" then thats great for them....just hope the steriods dont relapse... An expression of what one considers to be the image of Khalsa varies with the generation of that time frame...gone are the days where Khalsa were such as that described within Pracheen Panth Prakash. Is there much point in designing such posters when they are just fairy-tale idealistic images with no relation to reality? *rolls eyes*

..and latin :wink: btw, interesting post....

Shasterkovich Could you also for the record state what experience you have had with weapons (ie, which weapons) and which martial art systems so we can at least know whether you speak with experience or whether you are just stating hollow opinion. I assume from your first posting that you have turned up to Nihang Niddar Singh's classes as you are making a comparison between Shastar Vidiya and other arts....please let us know which Akhara you came to. In addition you stated: "I would'nt use the kirpan to fight anyone (except in self-defense or in defense of honour). " ..who's honour is that? And where did you pick this "rule" from? Does this mean if someone insulted you this would mean you will strike out at them at the first given opportunity? ...thats what it sounds like considering the context in which you speak. If this is the case, considering your previous postings on this forum that reveal your inherent hatred and insecurities towards muslims, and afro-carribean people, you are a serious menace to society and a danger to yourself. It is also apparent you lack the ability to control your emotions and think with a clear head when cornered in a discussion (hence your warning). This lack of self-control is a serious handicap when it comes to learning ANY martial art and a platform for a lofty ego. ...just my observations....no insults intended...

Its a known and proven fact, those who wish to believe in caste will continue to do so regardless of any scriptural or historical evidence presented to them. Those who belive in the caste system are inherently pig-headed and arrogant (by the very fact that they wish to believe in a system that categorises people according to their birth and not by action or virtue). Ironically some who claim not to believe in caste for the sake of political correctness will bring up caste when it comes to marrying off their kids of getting married themselves. Let these people be....who really cares what such people think or believe? If you know better then move on and develop yourselves. If Akali Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj used the "I dont wanna hurt my parents..bla bla bla" or "I dont believe in caste BUT...bla bla bla" excuses with regards to caste, then I doubt he would have broken free of the shackles of Brahminism. grow up people...

"Granth" refers to a bound volume/text...and refers not only to scriptures, but to historical texts, eg, Suraj Prakash Granth...etc. It is not a term ideally used by Sanatan Sikhs who are aware of maryada (traditions) to refer to sacred scriptures. Sanatan Sikhs consider Guru as King of Kings, ie "Guru Maharaj". When in any King's presence you are in the "Durbar", ie, Court of the King. Therefore, when we are in Guru Maharaj's presence ("Hazoori") listening, reciting, contemplating the message from the mightest of ALL Kings, we are within the "Durbar". In the case of Sanatan Sikhs, the Durbars are Adi Guru Durbar, Dasam Guru Durbar, and Sarbloh Guru Durbar, all of which are considered Guru for they contain the Guru's words. Also, taking this further, the "Golden Temple"/ "Hari Mandir" is also often referred to as "Durbar Sahib". Hope that helped..

...right click aon ANY picture nd select the "zoom in" function ..you'll see why the pics take time to load...and why simple html and css arent used ..enjoy

Manochal, try not to get personal...it seems this is a technique people start employing when they realise they cannot persue a dicussion with facts. For the sake of future benefit, could you provide the times, dates and location where Baba Nihal Singh said what you claim. Also, could you list the topics he covered and state his views (which you "apparently" heard). Also, please provide an email address so I can get in touch with you...mine is on my profile. I can attempt to have this confirmed when I, or others who I know do meet him in person and can get Baba Nihal Singh's opinions regarding this event on tape. This is probably the best way to put an end to these rumours....going to the source directly. Thanks..