Narsingha

Incidentally, for anyone who has actually READ the entire Charitropakhyaan/Treh Charittar of Sodhibans Bajjawalley Dasmesh Pitah Akali Nihang Guru Gobind Singh ji, they will quickly realise that these works are not to insult or undermine the status of women... Rather, give the reader more respect for womankind and for what they represent within creation. For example, Guru Maharaj states that women are four times more intelligent than men (in a given situation), and are better at coming up with schemes, plans and deceptions. *dreams of being a woman* (..kidding..) Many moronic self-proclaimed scholars have taken many of these beautiful stories out of context, and selectively mis-quote in order to propagate their own paranoia about not violating any Victorian taboos that exist within mainstream modern Sikhi. Then again, it appears today that once a person joins the fold of modern mainstream Sikhism, they are automatically stripped of their sexuality, sensuality and ability to think creatively.

Incidentally, Charitropakhyaan is also known as "Treh Charittar" amongst the Akali Nihang Singh Khalsa. "Treh" refering to women, and "Charitar" refering to attributes/schemes (hopefully lalleshvari can expand on this further..)

Sukhbir, aside from your petty attempts and humour and trying to educate the masses, I have been waiting a while for the in-depth analysis of www.sarbloh.info you promised me a while ago. Still, as yet...nothing.. With regards to Mr Blue, I am well aware of his "column" in the Sikh Times. Contrary to professional journalistic practices that require presentation of FACTS, TRUTHS and EXPERIENCE as a basis for opinions, Mr Blue seems to base his articles on false propaganda, paranoia, rumour, here-say and baseless opinions. Calling his work "journalism" is an insult to every journalist out there. Ironically it also highlights our own bais against Sanatan Sikhi as you are willing to resort to using such feeble articles in order to bolster your discussions. With regard to his article you posted in an attempt to discredit Nihang Niddar Singh, I for one, would like to know what "personal experiences", facts and experience Mr Blue has utilised with regards to writing such an article on Nihang Niddar Singh. Perhaps you can ask Mr Blue yourself, seeing that you consider his work to be viable and a genuine representation of the facts. If you are based in the UK, I implore you to come to one of the 4 Sanatan Sikh Shastar Vidiya Savya Rakhsha Akharas based in the Midlands and the South East and meet Nihang Niddar Singh for yourself. ...who knows, you may even learn a thing or two

Try contributing your time and effort to the gurudwara instead of your money ..and in time committees will realise that they have nothing to argue about.

what colour? :shock:

Whoever said they are "contradicting" each other? :?

try the following links: http://www.sarbloh.info/htmls/durbar_dasam.html http://www.dasamgranth.org

Mr Blue's article is entertaining to say the least. One obvious question would be to ask Mr Blue what made him an expert on Sikh history, scripture and martial arts. Would he kindly do us the honour of stating the lineage of his Vidiya Gurdevs. For anyone who has met Nihang Niddar Singh, it will be evident that Mr Blue has a severe case of intellectual consitpation, coupled with a delusion of self-importance and paranoia (as are those who take his articles as being of sound research and fortitude) To clarify the claim by Mr Blue that Udhasis are not Sikhs, I would like Mr Blue to visit the following link: http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20021210/main7.htm ..it appears even the Angrez Sikhi that Mr Blue is very fond of recognises the udhasis (big up to the Udhasis!)

I wonder what the reaction would be when Charitropakyaan becomes more widely available to the Sikh youth? Linkz: http://www.sarbloh.info/htmls/durbar_dasam7.html http://www.sarbloh.info/htmls/durbar_dasam8.html http://www.sarbloh.info/htmls/durbar_dasam9.html *ponders*

For more info: http://www.shastarvidiya.org/htmls/holla.html

My personal opinion on Khalistan doesnt matter, it wont change or alter history or the future As for what the Akali Nihang Singh perspective, be patient for www.nihang.com. As yet, www.sarbloh.info and www.shastarvidiya.org are already proving too much to handle for some. :twisted:

The politics, pre- and post 1984, and the role of the Akali Nihang Singh Khalsa within Sikh History and politics will be discussed on www.nihang.com in full. ..once the website is up, you have our word that ur queries will all be dealt with

yup, there are old paintings/sketches and pics of shaheedi degh and chatka...they will be revealed all in good time. Most of them will be making an appearance on www.nihang.com ...as for quotes, there are plenty of non-Sikh quotes provided on both www.shastarvidiya.org and www.sarbloh.info. Also, have a skim of the bibliography of books such as Warrior Saints, Arts of the Sikh Kingdoms, etc. for a quick starter on books that describe these practices from a non-Sikh perspective. Also, there are many non-Sikh sources used by Ganda Singh in his books on Sikh history. Have a look at his references. Also have a read of the following (and the sources they list): Through the Sikh Wars, by G. A. Henry Jassa Singh Ahluwalia, by Ganda Singh Sketch of the Sikhs by Malcolm Correspondence of Maharaja Duleep Singh by Ganda Singh The Fall of the Sikh Empire by Alaxander Gardner A History of the Sikhs by JD Cunningham Western Image of the Sikh Religion: A Source Book/edited by Darshan Singh History of the Sikhs by Hari Ram Gupta Sikh History From Persian Sources: Translations of Major Texts. edited by J.S. Grewal and Irfan Habib

There are many aspects of Giani Gian Singh Nirmala's works that do not entirely tally with the Akali Nihang oral tradition. However a comparative study will be revealed on the websites in future for all to read....they can draw their own conclusions... Many authors use sources and end up writing against the views of thier sources...such is reality.

Giani Gian Singh Nirmala's writings with regards to the Naamdhari movement was to document the oral tradition of the time, and to write down what the Naamdharis considered to be true according to their traditions. It is not for a historian to decide what is Gurmat or not...that is for the philosopher. A true historian documents events around him/her without prejudice and bias. What is done with this knowledge and how it is interpreted depends upon what the agenda is. There are many aspects of Giani Gian Singh Nirmala's writings that the Akali Nihangs do not agree with, but it is common knowledge that Giani Gian Singh Nirmala was not a big fan of Akali Nihang Singhs (....this is common knowledge thru Akali Nihang oral tradition..whether you accept this or not is your wish). Within Sanatan Sikhi, perception of Gurbaani (and hence its transiliteration and interpretation) is dependend on one's intellect as Akali Nihang Guru Gobind Singh ji explains in Dasam Guru Durbar. We must all appreciate that we are all different beings, and hence our interpretation may not sit well with others....however, we also need to learn not to enforce our beliefs onto others.. I ask you Bikramjit, how much of the websites do you actually agree with?

Firstly, Bikramjit, please try to understand that it is not "my" view that is being presented on the websites. The websites are there to present historical and scriptural truths and Sanatan Sikhi. Personal opinions without any backing have no basis. Besides, I do not claim to be any authority on Sanatan Sikhi. If people see me as such, that is their own perception and I am not going to go around convincing people of anything.... If you can manage to stick to being rational and objective and avoid personal insults (as you normally tend to resort to) then go ahead and post what you wish. With regard to being spoonfed, maybe its time you looked within yourself rather than pointing faults in others. As is evident, if you consider Prof. Sahib Singh's works as being irrefutable, then, its clear you are biased against Sanatan Sikhs (so your arguments as such will also be skewed and not objective). At the end of the day, regardless of how much you cry against Sanatan Sikhi, it will continue to exist. It was around before we came, and will continue to exist long after. In the greater picture, ur personal opinion (and mine) dont really count for much. I assume if you consider Giani Gian Singh Nirmala's works as being of dubious nature, then do you also consider the following line as being incorrect? "Aageya Pey Akal Kee Tabey Chalayoh Panth, Sabh Sikhan Koh Hukam Heh Guru Maneyo Granth" That is simply one of many aspects within Sikhi that has stemmed from Giani Gian Singh Nirmala's works. ...the fact that Giani Gian Singh Nirmala's works are the basis for most modern day texts on Sikh history, including much of Prof Sahib Singh's works too seems to suggest that there is a sound basis for the validity of his works. Why reject one bit of his work and accept another simply because it may or may not agree with ur view of what is correct?

forgot to mention ..regardless of what people may think, these traditions and maryada will continue regardless...they are Sanatan.... If people wish to accept them, or not, or respect ..or not... doesnt really affect the Akali Nihang Singh Khalsa or the Sanatan Sikhs...it will continue on regardless as maryada is above anyone's personal opinions or petty insults. Bottom line, we are simply providing information, what u wish to do with it is ur choice...if u wish to ignore it...exercise ur freedom and move on to wat u may consider greener pastures.. If u wish to learn more...there is more... If however, all u wish to do is insult it (or the individuals promoting it) then dear fellow, thats cool too...it just motivates us more to continue to ensure this maryada is kept alive....be it at the expense of our lives. :twisted:

I mentioned that you have to ACCEPT and RESPECT these aspects, not practice them. There is a difference. Never is any individual forced to consume meat or shaheedi degh against their will. Great warriors such as Paindeh Khan never consumed chatka but remained eaters of Halal. Akali Nihang Singh Khalsa do not preach that all HAVE to eat meat, that has never been the case. There are plenty of Akali Nihang Singhs who are vegetarians, but unlike the fanatic vegetarian mainstream Sikhs I refer to, these Akali Nihang Singhs do not enforce their vegetariansim on others, nor do they actively preach against meat. Unlike other groups that exist within mainstream Sikhi, vegetarianism or partaking of Mahapraasad is not enforced upon an individual within the Akali Nihang Khalsa Panth The term "fanactic vegetarians" is apt as it refers to those people who enforce vegetarianism on people and consider meat eating as being anti-Gurmat simply because it does not appeal to their version of Sikhi.

Whether a person is a vegetarian, or meat eater doesnt matter ....what does matter is when people enforce their vegetarianism on others and claim to be doing it for the good of Sikhi. I dont see anyone forcing people toe at meat, so why shud anyone force others to abstain from it?

Sri Akaal Ji Sahai Bikramjit, try not to drag people to ur low level thinkin of petty insults. I know this is the only way you can gain any credit but at least make an effort. Your buttons are easier to push than a calculator designed for the partially sighted. Get over it. Are you aiming to receive a Siropa from the SGPC for your efforts in trying to malign my reputation? Newsflash for Bikramjit: No one really cares what you think of me...! All you are capable of doing is throwing petty personal insults on internet dicussion forums. This is the extent of your "discussions" and "debates". For those who will read that thread on the Sikh History Website, they will realise this for themselves. I encourage people to read that thread, as it reveals the level of discussion Bikramjit wishes to utilise. With regards to my Punjabi, that is none of your concern. You are in no position to make such an assessment, but, then again, seeing that you are a moderator on a website, this must be adequate qualifications for your opinion to become gospel (yeah right) The question remains, who's research would one trust? Professor Sahib Singh, a stooge of the SGPC with an education from the British Raj, or Giani Gian Singh Nirmala, who was taught the traditional Sanatan way and knowledgable in ancient scriptures and historical texts. Even Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha states the authenticity of Bhai Bhano Wali Bir. If you wish to stick to Professor Sahib Singh, then good on you, however it may be worthy to research the credentials of Professor Sahib Singh and Giani Gian Singh Nirmala to find out who's opinion has more credibility. It may also be worthy to note that Prof Sahib Singh was extremely pro-chatka (ironically his translations are used by puritanical fanatic vegetarian mainstream Sikhs). The reason there cannot be any debate with you is because as is evident from the thread on Sikh History forum which you started, all you are capable of doing is hurling insults everytime something does not go your way. No doubt you will attempt to reduce the quality of this forum to your low level thinking too, as you have done on the Sikh History thread. Time will reveal this to be the case... Continue your petty rantings Bikramjit....should it acheive anything for you. You are but a child in need of attention.

..wait for www.nihang.com that will deal with: a) the FULL history of the Akali Nihang Singh Khalsa Panth (focus on 96 Crore Budha Dal) Impact of the British Raj on Sanatan Sikhs (with special emphasis on Akali Nihang Singh Khalsa) and history of the subsequent creation of British-Raj nurtured Sikhism and factions/individuals (A.K.J., Taksal, Sant Samaj, SGPC, 3HO, Nirankaris, etc.) c) Exposing the full series of events leading to 1984, during 1984 and post-1984 c) The Akali Nihang Singh Khalsa perspective on 1984 and Akali Nihang Baba Santa Singh's role during this entire period d) An insight into the Akali Nihang Singh Khalsa way of life (codes of conduct, traditions, heritage, uniform, stories of famous warriors, etc)

With regard to this posting, Akali Nihang Baba Santa Singh refused to comply with the wishes of the SGPC. This is simply propaganda by SGPC. Chatka and Shaheedi Degh will never leave the Akali Nihang Singh Khalsa Panth. Evidently this and other issues will be clarified on www.nihang.com

Before doing any sports/physical activity, it is always a good idea to get advice from a qualified doctor. If you are suffering from any condition that may affect your performance, or may hinder ur health, then get some good professional advice. As with any physical activity, there is scope for injury, but as long as you're sensible and dont do anything daft, then you should be fine. We have people with asthma training, and they are sensible (ie, they keep their inhalers with them and are careful to know not to exceed their limits). Just stick to the professional advice and you should be fine. "Jung-di-Vidiya" is far more physical and strenuous, and during sparring, there is a chance of being "winded", poked in the eye, sprains, cuts, bites (yeah, we bite too), bruises, etc etc, so that is recommended if you cannot handle this kind of environment. :twisted:

www.shastarvidiya.org will be updated soon to include information on all Savya Rakhsha Akharas (times, locations, what to wear, etc). Savya Rakhsa is not a "watered down" version of Shastar Vidiya, it is a branch of it. Its designed to be picked up quickly by most people, and caters for a wider audience. For people who wish to learn how to look after themselves in the street (self defence) then Savya Rakhsha is enough. For those wishing to move to "Jang-di-vidiya" then Savya Rakhsha is a prerequisite course as this forms the basis of more advanced techniques. "Jung-di-vidiya" also requires more physical fitness than Savya Rakhsha (and a more focused mindset) ..stay tuned! :twisted:

Sri Akaal Ji Sahai There are Savya Rakhsha classes planned for the London Area in July 2003. Savya Rakhsha is pure self-defence, and is open to ALL people, regardless of faith, creed, colour, caste (for those into this), socio-economic status. NO one is expected to become a "Nihang" by learning this. It is PURE technique. In case anyone is wondering, it takes a minimum of 2 years of Savya Rakhsha before one wishes to progress onto "Jundi-di-vidiya" (the full Sanatan Sikh Shastar Vidiya). "Jungi-di-vidiya" also means people come face to face with the full Akali Nihang Singh Khalsa traditions of Chatka, Mahaprasaad (meat), Sukka, Dasam and Sarbloh Guru Durbar, etc., and as such this will not be palatable to those who do not agree or accept these aspects.