Genie Singh

I'm guessing some Sikhs have shanka - doubts over sikhi to the point they don't even believe in those kurbanis (acts of sacrifice/martyrdom) because there are instances of miracles and the super natural makes people doubt the entire thing, like Baba Deep Singh picking up his own head to fight.
But with that there have been Sikhs who have been beheaded in Pakistan and Afghanistan recently, perhaps people put that down to minor disputes, not one my caste/relative. Perhaps people are wrapped around the media so much that if the mainstream media don't cover Sikhs being killed in Afghanistan it never happened for them, but at the same time we don't hear about the beatings the taliban give to other muslims like lashing going on.

Maybe Sikh history is depressing and you can get away from it but getting away from mainstream media is hard, but with many media stories they get forgotten about over time, current affairs don't always make it to the history lessons of tomorrow.

Perhaps due to some sikhs feeling xenophobia/racism/contempt as of late due to mistaken identity with islamists and increase in coverage of islamist atrocities, many people want an apology from those with the islamist kin, we can't always separate ourselves from other humans and some people just have businesses, careers, education relationships to maintain and build and it's easier to say sorry for something you have nothing to do with or have relation with then to actually explain that you have nothing to do with it. I think many "Asiatic" religions have been brushed over to be branches of islamism at the moment by some less than affluent folk who have become a vocal minority.

http://www.sikhawareness.com/uploads/monthly_02_2015/post-10552-0-42647600-1423234747.jpg

I wonder if it says something else after Nanak, since there is concatenation [...nanakdasranjit...] taking place "Nanak dasran jit" - but it's more likely ranjit, I wonder if ranjit here is a name, instrument, or the meaning behind it of victor of the battlefield.

nanakdasranjitabi ?charo | eiochrkrbhan Is the yellow ink medieval tipex(correctional fluid) or damage that has been caused accidentally, from some reaction (ink, paper, time) or possibly intentional damage.

http://imgur.com/E86R2ts
This one mentions "Nanak" several times in the body of the text, Baba Nanak a couple. Baba Nanak speaking to a pandha (pandit) (guesses could be Pandit Hardyal or Pandit Gopal). Could be wrong...

so with the usual tons of mistakes this is what I can see at the moment (taking out the concatenation requires a good vocabulary before hand as well and some of the words aren't in use in modern Punjabi).

2nd line onwards dhajee Nanak noprou | maitaegeebahuvsaevakarg| ta padhae kahiaa bhlajeetb padha epteelikhidi tee || ta Sri Guru Nanak ji eikadeenprad(?)jaedin chupkarirhae | tapadhaekahia Nanak ji radaki ounhee | ta Guru Nanak Ji kahiaa padh ji toopaji aahaijrmainoopraavdahae | ta padhae kahiaa jeemaes bhooakaechpariaah | smakharcholaekhapdeeaapree sabhoaemainoaavdahai || ta Sri Guru Baba Nanak ji kahi [then Sri Guru Baba Nanak ji said] aaeaenepreegaeifahaepoudaehainia || dharmraeidae thadhajadahaieaehuprnabadhai | ta Sri Guru Ji ou jobfeikasigiraagvichikahiaa || jalimohughasimsrkarimatikagafarisar bhaouklmkaguchivlaekhagigrrpachlikhrvee chag | likhrnmsal ? likhrlikhrantrnpacha

I wonder if this is a part of a manuscript which has been lost in time entirely or never before seen manuscript, if so it would be worth trying to digitize as much as you can, before such a beauty is lost to time. Perhaps it maybe the key to answering an authenticity study on certain texts still in circulation.

Thank you sir for the reply and the insight,
I'll try scanning more pages if I can or take pictures, as you can see the second one is in very poor shape and the pages very delicate and brittle.

All I can tell is that these along with some other family heirlooms were passed down to my grandmother from her family,
she used to say that these were giving as a gift to her ancestors from the founding members of some "misls".
she was very protective of these and also asked me not to give these to anyone whatsoever,
Her family were of landowners in peshawar before the partion of india, her grandfather was in british army and her father was a physics professor at fc college, Lahore.
After the partition they moved to Amritsar, India and then after sometime to South-Africa.

Hi Peter, I have seen very similar manuscripts kept in the British Library under great care. You can go there register with proof of ID, wait an hour or a few days, it gets ordered in for you to see there with great care, there are rules in place but it's open to public access.

http://explore.bl.uk/primo_library/libweb/action/search.do?dscnt=0&frbg=&scp.scps=scope%3A%28BLCONTENT%29&tab=local_tab&dstmp=1423072443255&srt=rank&ct=search&mode=Basic&vl(488279563UI0)=any&dum=true&tb=t&indx=1&vl(freeText0)=janam%20sakhi&vid=BLVU1&fn=search
There are many scans of similar manuscripts on Punjab digital library if you register you can view it, it's a got alot of gem of texts scanned.
http://www.panjabdigilib.org/
One thing about such manuscripts I don't understand yet is the binding in leather, today people prefer cardboard based/or plastic instead.

It's difficult to read, since it's using laarivar (the Punjabi is concatenated, apparently the spaces between words came in later on around the time of the printing press). And I am too used to typed writings rather than handwritten.

One of them (I will edit it to correct what I can make of it)- my reading skills need much work.

The last one is something else the style of writing from me speculating looks like a different writer, different year as well.
Looking at this one, my initial guess a gutka (prayer book) possibly extracted shabad (hymn) from Guru Granth Sahib - from my limited look at the type face being split away from it's concatenation and running a search I can't find it in a search of Guru Granth Sahib. http://www.srigranth.org/ So it maybe from a Janamsakhi
http://imgur.com/gXQKY1a

ੴ ਸਤਿ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ Ik Onkar sat gur prasad There is one god known by the grace of the true Guru ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਗਿਆਨੁ raag ramkali gian In the musical meter of Raag Ramakali ... Wisdom(http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Ramkali) ਮਹਲਾ ||੧ || saraed mahala || 1 || pakhotam ... composed by the first House (Mehal) || ਪ੍ਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਪੂਰਨ ਬਿਸਵਾਥੀ parmatma pooran beesvathee God (the one above the soul) ... complete s || adpurkh abeechalee http://imgur.com/oSd7V48 tuheetaehinivaouooseesa | 1 || ouanachrkhatahosoh achrjan | nihach rasuashrhtataheekom naan|2 || taheeekou (NEXT PAGE) manalgatidinsurtl 2 gavuai | apaaapabosa avarnheeseesnivavhu 3|| Nanak das matkaht haiagmanigmkeeseeakha| http://i.imgur.com/QrhqzbD.jpg sarodaiagiaanabicharit baiprmpdpaei | 3364 || alikhtmakimnamighaliakhi aabhutpeetkarikaealikha eiaakisnnae || bholchukbkhstee (next page) akhrsodhiprrna | 95 simta | 1879 ||jaegoadi narveea ramramjee ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH || bolavneesboohooi khalsae jeenooa If that page is part of the same manuscript then it can't be from Guru Granth Sahib the phrase Khalsa is very rare in Guru Granth Sahib and the phrase "VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH " is not in Guru Granth Sahib it can be found in other texts post Guru Gobind Singhs time. There are some mistakes in what I've tried to get but the khalsa fateh can easily be seen.

You sound like you know what you are doing!


Good luck brother!

Wishing you every success. I think having multiple searchable Gurmukhi texts available will be an immense step in the development of the language.

It would especially useful to try and isolate semantic meanings of words that have fallen out of modern use for instance.

hmm thanks but it also states

"Later, Hargobind, son of Arjan Mal, ate meat and took tohunting. Most of their [the Gurus] followers adopted his practice
.
Mobad’ Dabistan-I Mazahib 1645-46" ???

Holy! Ancient Indians also wore turbans and
And

Interesting links:
Baudhāyana, (fl. c. 800 BCE)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baudhayana
Indian writings talk about pythagorean theorem way before Pythagoras (c. 570 BC – c. 495 BC)



I am guessing Pythagoras was inspired by Indians quite a bit, and he took a part of our culture with him to Greece.

He appears here aswell, perhaps Muhammadens removed him out of history and we seem to have him accounted for which should suggest some literature referring to him must exist or it's an alias/nickname for him. The geography is confusing because we see a mix of Turkey and Medina which both came under the ottoman empire but are very distinct places in today's world.

page 346-350 Baba ji gae rum shair - Baba ji went to the city of Rom
(before 346 you have the Mecca sakhi and after 350 you have the Baghdad Sakhi)

http://www.scribd.com/doc/209844046/Guru-Nanak-Janamsakhi-Bhai-Mani-Singh-Gian-Ratnawali-Gyan-Ratnavali-in-Gurmukhi-Punjabi

HA HA SO FUNNY

Taqiya is a big part of Islam. Here we have a stunningly authentic example of the commandment in play. This individual is trying to deceive us into investing in a middle-eastern sanitation corp run by Shias where we will be forced to convert to that fraternity. Secondly we will also learn the knowledge of practising the dictums of the Quran using our own toilet (mass emphasis here my child) with wood! Now whether toilet extends to faecal matter is altogether another matter. Rest assured however that old Tava Boothi will get his knickers in a twist if he sees this post. Now one cheer for Imam Ali and tissue paper constructed out of wood!!!! An ingenious invention of the east.

Wonder if there is a middle-eastern branch?

Yes, the almighty devta Armitage Shanks

You must have had a terrible hangover when you wrote all that gibberish.

Don't knock toiletism guys

We all laugh and joke about it until we get a bout of Delhi belly and the toilet god is what we all search for!

Because I remember the speeches coming from the loudspeakers during his day. The utter poison he was putting into his communities mind at the behest of Pakistan was disgusting.

It seems we swapped places.

I still despise him.