Lucky

Totally agree I mentioned the simran technique of the pavan(pran/life force) and navel, because I was trying keep basic/simple as to mention the beginning step of ultat and ALSO because... somewhere (I can't find or locate) i came across an explanation ....saying that before we are born, the Mind comes first (jyot saroop) with shabad/word and through a series of process leads to pavan/pran(life force for sustenance), such that this pavan is via the navel and umbilical cord whilst in womb. It explained in such a manner, as to state that the para, pasanti, madhma and baikhri happens in reverse order as to how we approach it with simran ..ie.baikhri 1st, then madhma..etc The pavan is what we have to save and bank in the right place to get going towards Waheguru ji. Thanks for that link on kundalini rising because it is valuable in the manner it simplifies the explanations....brilliant ! (one of the best i've seen so far)

I don't want to go off-topic here, but think of simple positive and negative energies. Our subtle sareer has layers of these energies, and during day to day life we pick up pollution of negative energies from surroundings that cause an imbalance, but we can also pick up much positives as well that help bring down the negative imbalances- this is why gurbani stresses on the company of sadh sangat (where pure positive absorption is obtained) You can look at some material on 5 koshas(layers of subtle sareer) and energies etc... but I wouldn't worry too much about it. There are the chakras which all have to balanced and be in positive activations. When this happens, the higher crown chakra/dasam duar opens and kundalini rises to merge the life stream with God stream.... the destination for sachkhand. But like I said, you don't have to worry and get concerned with what is balanced/activated as per yogic approach, because with the help of shabad and gurmantar..everything aligns itself automatically....Gurmat approach is to focus on shabad and shabad only. ang 1402 ਕੁੰਡਲਨੀ ਸੁਰਝੀ ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਪਰਮਾਨੰਦ ਗੁਰੂ ਮੁਖਿ ਮਚਾ ॥ The Kundalini rises in the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation; through the Word of the Guru, they enjoy the Lord of Supreme Bliss. kundlanee surjhee satsangat parmaanand guroo mukh machaa Sadh sangat promotes positive energies that help the sequence to kundalini rising. ang 333 ਉਲਟਤ ਪਵਨ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਖਟੁ ਭੇਦੇ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਸੁੰਨ ਅਨਰਾਗੀ ॥ I turned my breath inwards, and pierced through the six chakras of the body, and my awareness was centered on the Primal Void of the Absolute Lord. ultat pavan chakar khat bhayday surat sunn anraagee. I think the breath inwards is the pavan referring to the waheguru gurmantar in simran technique of breath in/out. Therefore, just the boat of the shabad will ferry us across through whatever chakras need conquering along the turbulent ocean(bhavsagar) Guru Nanak ji, also mentions this in sidh gosht to the siddas, claiming that he only needs the word of the shabad as his master and boat to get across, whereas they have many other strict regimes.

These sensations are quite normal and a good sign that you are tuning mind and body together. The ticklish sensations can sometimes be a little more than that but not quite be described as vibrations. This inbetween stage of sensation is a little like the individual cells buzzing or you could say fizzing ! As far as I am aware these are different areas of your body coming in tune with your raised consciousness, therefore it is a good and positive sign that your meditation is elevating your very own consciousness. I would advise that you still persevere and keep your focus on the simran and maintain that inner mind silence with only the sound of gurmantar happening. As you progress they should ease a little as your body's energy layers start stabilizing. But if in your day to day life you let emotions, feelings, joy/anger levels....etc...jump from higher ends of spectrum to lower ends, then you will find these affect the same energy layers to become unstable again. Therefore, you will find that the same tickling sensations repeat themselves in next meditations but maybe in different areas. So, in my opinion, I think you can use these as self markers to try and keep your emotions, feelings, anger/joy levels at some base levels by your adjusted self conduct in day to day life. This is why in addition to naam simran, it is important to read, contemplate and reflect on gurbani so that you conduct your self and your mind with MAX gurmat in day to day life.

Bhai Gurdas ji, Vaar 6 pauri 10 ਸਬਦ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਲਿਵ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਪੰਚ ਸਬਦ ਇਕ ਸਬਦ ਮਿਲਾਏ। The Gurmukh while immersing his meditational faculty in the Word listens to the Word alone even through the five types of sounds. sabad surti liv sādhsaṅgi pañc sabad ik sabad milāē . I understand this to be using the gurmantar of shabad along with panj shabad. ਰਾਗ ਨਾਦ ਸੰਬਾਦ* ਲਖਿ ਭਾਖਿਆ ਭਾਉ ਸੁਭਾਉ ਅਲਾਏ। Considering the ragas and nadas only as the medium, the Gurmukh discusses and recites with love. rāg nād lakh sabad lakhi bhākhiā bhāu subhāu alāē . ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਧਿਆਨ ਧੁਨਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਜੰਤ੍ਰ੍ਰੀ ਜੰਤ੍ਰ* ਵਜਾਏ। Only the Gurmukhs understand the melody of the knowledge of the supreme reality. gurmukhi braham dhiānu dhuni jāṇai jantrī jantr vajāē . ਅਕਥ ਕਥਾ ਵੀਚਾਰਕੈ ਉਸਤਤਿ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਵਰਜਿ ਰਹਾਏ। The Sikhs ponder on the words of the Ineffable, and abstain from praise and blame. akath kathā vīchāri kai ustati nidā varji rahāē .

Gurbani doesn't deny the chakras anywhere. Guru Nanak makes it known that chakras do not have to be activated or opened as per previous extreme postural yogic techniques. In gurmat the SHABAD will automatically open and align the chakras so that one reaches dasam duar. Crown chakra is the dasam duar as far as I know, and without the door opening, I'm not sure how one would get to sachkhand. Bhai Gurdas ji, vaar 1 pauri 2 ਪਉਣ ਪਾਣੀ ਬੈਸੰਤਰੋ ਚਉਥੀ ਧਰਤੀ ਸੰਗਿ ਮਿਲਾਈ। Air, water, fire and earth was put together. pauṇ pāṇī baisntarō chauthī dhartī saṅgi milāī . ਪੰਚਮਿ ਵਿਚਿ ਆਕਾਸ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਛਟਮੁ ਅਦਿਸਟੁ ਸਮਾਈ। The fifth element sky (void) was kept in between and creator God, the sixth one, invisibly permeated among all. pañcmi vici ākāsu kari karatā chaṭmu adisṭu samāī . ਪੰਚ ਤਤ ਪੰਚੀਸ ਗੁਨਿ ਸਤ੍ਰ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਮਿਲਿ ਦੇਹਿ ਬਣਾਈ। To create the human body, five elements and twenty five qualities opposite to each other were joined and mixed. pañc tat pañcīsi guni satr mitr mili dēhi baṇāī . This 25 qualities number comes from the panj shabad joining with each of of the 5 elements, so 5 x 5=25. ਖਾਣੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਚਲਿਤੁ ਕਰਿ ਆਵਾਗਉਣੁ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਦਿਖਾਈ। Four life originating mines (egg foetus sweatborn , vegetation) and four speeches(para, pasyanti, madhyama, vaikhari) were assimiliated into each other and the drama of transmigration was enacted. khāṇī bāṇī chlitu kari āvā gauṇu chrit dikhāī . The same four speeches above( vaikhri,madhma,paysanti and para) in opposite order is the method we use with the air/pavan energy to go back into the mool of origin. Therefore,I can't understand how we can bypass the same panj primordial sounds ? ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਲਖ ਜੋਨਿ ਉਪਾਈ ॥੨॥ Thus eighty four lacs of species were created. churāsīh lakh jōni upāī ॥2॥ As far as I'm aware, we need the shabad sound current to carry our consciousness to the destination. This starts by a complete balancing of all our energies via chakras, sukhmana steadiness..etc.. and then finally to the Ghar of sachkhand.

Yeh , i would say the same.. People automatically jump to increasing strength of enamel and bone, but if your gums are weak...then that's not going to help. The only dhesi tip that I know is to massage your gums with ginger root, or if you have problem grinding down fresh ginger, go for the powder. It works a miracle for sore gums.

Yeh, seriously.... it doesn't have to be street drugs because there are plenty of people hooked on prescription meds and they don't even realise it !

Both posts totally on track ! The end point of discussion should not be that elevated=veggie, veggie=elevated, or veggie-right compared to meat...etc..etc..... But the end-point should be that it is absolutely foolish to argue about the taste of tongue. Guru-Nanak ji says, that only fools argue about flesh and they KNOW NOTHING ABOUT MEDITATION. So, when you follow this to go and find out with practice of meditation, then you too will realize how foolish it is to argue about justifying veggie/meat or quite simply the 'rights for the taste of the tongue' So yes, chatanga ji is right to point that even justifying daal phoolka is itself, foolish talk about taste.

I'm not too sure about the above. I understand this void as a place where there are no thoughts whatsover. Because thoughts, themselves are maya. My idea is to find this place and let the 'sound' of waheguru manifest there. So, it doesn't actually become a void !

Gotcha ! That was real interesting shabad veechar, that's worthy of it's own thread alone !

Thats great work Bhagat Looking at your comments made me smile because it was very similar to what I kind of concluded. My vocab is nowhere as good as yours, as i'm still teaching myself. Nevertheless, I had a feeling you would be one of the few that would nail straight away, whereas I would have to read through it numerous times. But there were a few little points that I couldn't grasp where you said the translator messed it up. I'm not too sure, but looking at it both ways doesn't do any harm. Your post/work is in purple and the rest is me showing what I kinda made of it, and how i sorta got there..... ਜੋਇ ਖਸਮੁ ਹੈ ਜਾਇਆ ॥ Wife (Maya) and Husband (Hari) give birth (to the Son/Mun). ਪੂਤਿ ਬਾਪੁ ਖੇਲਾਇਆ ॥ The Father (Hari) gets the Son (Mun/Mind) to play. Father (Hari) is the Son's consciousness. Consciousness allows the Son to experience things, to think, and so on. This is the play that father plays with us. 1)does 'joe' mean wife ? .......i'm not too sure I think 'khasam' is husband/owner and ''jaaeiaa'' is go, taken, or ie. when someone says ''maa da jaaiaa''-son of a mother ! Putting these together...I get..- ''husband is son of wife'' ! 2)But, it is ''put baph khalaya'' -son plays the father....wouldn't it be 'baph puth khalayia'' if it were 'father gets son to play' ?? correct me if and where i'm wrong. Continuing....this is what i came to.. I said that wife/mother =Maya Father=soul/jeeva(Ego) Son= Mind bearing these in mind whilst reading..... ਜੋਇ ਖਸਮੁ ਹੈ ਜਾਇਆ ॥joe khasam hai jaaeiaa || The wife gives birth to her husband. ਪੂਤਿ ਬਾਪੁ ਖੇਲਾਇਆ ॥pooth baap khaelaaeiaa || The son leads his father in play. The wife (MAYA) gives birth to the husband (MIND) Such that the product of Maya is the MIND which is the sense of false ego/ haumai and also influenced by the 3 Qualities of MAYA. Remember that it is the MIND that itself enjoys the MAYA(it's mother) I think the 2 tuks above actually go a little further into differentiating the Son as the MIND, and the Father as the Soul,/jeeva (the EGO part) The Son (MIND) leads the father (SOUL) into play. Or let's say....The Mind(Son) gets the SOUL(father) into it's OWN play. But the Father(Soul) is supposed to be the leader and guide for the Son (mind). Then what happens is, that the Mind leads the Soul into it's own temptations (false Ego) ! ਬਿਨੁ ਸ੍ਰਵਣਾ ਖੀਰੁ ਪਿਲਾਇਆ ॥੧॥ The Mother (Maya) gets the Son (Mun/Mind) to drink milk* without having any breasts. Maya gives us the pleasures of life, this is the milk that the mother feeds us. She has no breasts. *The original word is kheer but in this context it means milk because the word that comes after it, is "drink" not "eat". ਬਿਨੁ ਸ੍ਰਵਣਾ ਖੀਰੁ ਪਿਲਾਇਆ ॥੧॥ bin sravanaa kheer pilaaeiaa ||1|| Without breasts, the mother nurses her baby. ||1|| ***Child drinks milk from mother breasts- FACT. I think here, he is saying that there is some milk/feeding that is not from breasts or not genuine milk. falseness, fake, illusion.....**** The MIND gets nursed by Mother(Maya). The 'without breasts' means irregular/not in order/ false/ not the real thing...etc.. So. the False qualities of maya nurse the false senses and demands of the MIND. The MIND starts 'milking' out the soul and taking the jeev out of jeeva in order to fulfill the false perceptions displayed by MAYA(mother) ਦੇਖਹੁ ਲੋਗਾ ਕਲਿ ਕੋ ਭਾਉ ॥ O people, watch this state of Kaliyug. ਸੁਤਿ ਮੁਕਲਾਈ ਅਪਨੀ ਮਾਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ The Son (Mun/Mind) thinks the Mother (Maya) belongs to him. ਦੇਖਹੁ ਲੋਗਾ ਕਲਿ ਕੋ ਭਾਉ ॥ dhaekhahu logaa kal ko bhaao || Behold, people! This is how it is in the Dark Age of Kali Yuga. ਸੁਤਿ ਮੁਕਲਾਈ ਅਪਨੀ ਮਾਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ suth mukalaaee apanee maao ||1|| rehaao || The son marries his mother. ||1||Pause|| My impression is that in this age of Kalyug, the MIND(son) marries the MAYA(mother) that gave birth to it in the beginning What exactly is this saying ? The MIND(son) is influenced by the 3 qualities of MAYA(mother). Then the Son-mind gets married to the same Maya-mother. What does the mind do in Kaliyug? The answers follow: ਪਗਾ ਬਿਨੁ ਹੁਰੀਆ ਮਾਰਤਾ ॥ The mind is without feet but jumps a lot. It fantasizes, it plans, it looks towards the future. ਬਦਨੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਖਿਰ ਖਿਰ ਹਾਸਤਾ ॥ The mind is without a mouth but laughs a lot. It indulges in pleasures through the five senses. ਪਗਾ ਬਿਨੁ ਹੁਰੀਆ ਮਾਰਤਾ ॥ pagaa bin hureeaa maarathaa || Without feet, the mortal jumps. ਬਦਨੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਖਿਰ ਖਿਰ ਹਾਸਤਾ ॥ badhanai bin khir khir haasathaa || Without a mouth, he bursts into laughter. These next few tuks confirmed the metaphor for MIND Since- Without Feet the MIND still JUMPS.........Just think how our MINDS jump from thoughts to desires and wants ? yet it doesn't even have any feet like everything else that jumps in this world ! Without a Mouth, the MIND bursts into laughter !......Again, Just think how it finds things so amusing and pleasing.....How often do we laugh at jokes and get amused with sudden pleasures, where we let the impulse take over ? This MIND gets pleased and amused by one pleasure and then tries to run and jump to the next....(like a frog jumping from one stone to the other) ਨਿਦ੍ਰਾ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਰੁ ਪੈ ਸੋਵੈ ॥ The mind sleeps without sleeping. The mind is ignorant of Hari and is thus asleep. ਨਿਦ੍ਰਾ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਰੁ ਪੈ ਸੋਵੈ ॥ nidhraa bin nar pai sovai || Without feeling sleepy, he lays down and sleeps. When we are sleepy, our eyes get tired, our body starts to tell us with physical warning signs. But the MIND doesn't have eyes that get tired or muscles that fatigue and have to relax for recharging. Instead, the MIND sleeps due to being Intoxicated from MAYA and the pleasures it gets. However, we try and feel that we are in control, we are not that attached to maya, we try to convince ourselves that we can be Free from Maya......etc.. BUT all this is Haumai and Ego. The MIND in it's True form without Ego is the Jyot Swaroop, and this is the true self from origin without the influences of maya. Sadly, the MIND has fallen asleep in this illusion of MAYA and masked as well as forgotten the True Self or Jyot swaroop. ਬਿਨੁ ਬਾਸਨ ਖੀਰੁ ਬਿਲੋਵੈ ॥੨॥ The mind stirs Kheer/milk without utensils. The mind through the (false/impermanent) body seeks pleasure. ਬਿਨੁ ਬਾਸਨ ਖੀਰੁ ਬਿਲੋਵੈ ॥੨॥ bin baasan kheer bilovai ||2|| Without a churn, the milk is churned. ||2|| The Churning of Milk without a churn is the MIND churning the desires and going into Ego. The MIND's wanderings and plans of fortune, wealth, success, retirement funds...ALL MAYA is the churning without the True source. Or, the false wanderings of the MIND and the plans to engage in even more maya. ਬਿਨੁ ਅਸਥਨ ਗਊ ਲਵੇਰੀ ॥ The cow lactates without udders. Maya (cow) gives pleasures (milk) without udders. ਬਿਨੁ ਅਸਥਨ ਗਊ ਲਵੇਰੀ ॥ bin asathhan goo lavaeree || Without udders, the cow gives milk. Again, as in the above... the milk seems to not be coming from true source. MAYA is the cow without udders that feeds the MIND. Significance of cow in this case is....- it gives us the 'Milk' that we were attached to from our mother. Then as adults we kind of get attached /linked to this same cows milk. Therefore, the Milk the cow gives is NOT the same as the milk from the original mother-MAYA. But still it keeps the MIND attached to it's more deceptive and falser illusion. Such is the play and attachment of our Minds into deceptive lures and attractions of more MAYA. ਪੈਡੇ ਬਿਨੁ ਬਾਟ ਘਨੇਰੀ ॥ The mind thinks the path is foggy, but in reality there is no path. The mind is the image of Hari but it thinks it dies and takes rebirth (the path). ਪੈਡੇ ਬਿਨੁ ਬਾਟ ਘਨੇਰੀ ॥ paiddae bin baatt ghanaeree || Without travelling, a long journey is made. ਪੈਡੇ ਬਿਨੁ ਬਾਟ ਘਨੇਰੀ ॥ paiddae bin baatt ghanaeree || Without travelling, a long journey is made. (He mentions bhaat or journey distance) The life journey can be much better if devoted to the Lord and our True source. Because it is not, life seems like a long hard journey that we keep making longer without even getting any nearer our source or Mool. Another way of looking at it,........ - If we just stay in one position without ever making any effort to travel the path, then the path or journey will just keep getting longer and difficult and the distance will continue to get bigger between Us and Waheguru. I am a firm believer that if we take just 1 step towards Waheguru, then he takes 10 steps towards us. But if we don't even attempt to take just 1, then we just keep making this distance even further. ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਬਾਟ ਨ ਪਾਈ ॥ ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਸਮਝਾਈ ॥੩॥੩॥ Without a guru, the path (Bhagti) can not found. This is what Kabir is trying to explain. ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਬਾਟ ਨ ਪਾਈ ॥ bin sathigur baatt n paaee || Without the True Guru, the path is not found. ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਸਮਝਾਈ ॥੩॥੩॥ kahu kabeer samajhaaee ||3||3|| Says Kabeer, see this, and understand. ||3||3|| Sant Kabir This kind of sums it up- The MIND that is heavily drowned and intoxicated with MAYA, keeps running and jumping in all directions looking for those comforts and pleasures. They come in many forms but the effect is ALWAYS temporary. If the ultimate peace and permanent comfort is missing, then life will always be miserable full of temporary moments. Our soul that contains the true mool conscience is the one that suffers and faces these consequences. However, the GURU guidance can help the MIND from misguiding the Soul into false and temporary directions. I think the 'bin satgur baath na payee' tells us that we should use the Shabad guru and bani as our guidance to keep us straight on the path. After we make this effort ourselves, then his kirpa and grace follows.

chitrgupt is the recorder and keeper of deeds as you know. Or, sometimes people refer to 2 beings being chitr & gupt keeping the balance like a scale with good and bad deeds on either side. They are recording the works of kaal. Where Kaal has played and sent us in doing deeds that go in opposite direction of God. In this sense, I can imagine them on a similar level, as one sends out the influences for deeds and the other records them. Then we have dharmraj on the throne who does a pre-karmic evaluation and is the keeper of the accounts. Only HUKAM from the Higher One (waheguru ek onkaar) decides the fate and runs the show ... (anyway,....that's my understanding. don't know if it helps ?) I also believe that Chitrgupt was son of Lord 'Brahma', who was the appointed creator of the world This brahma is not the same as waheguru-ek onkar. Brahma = four headed god who created 'Brahm' = the Waheguru God- formless (Again, this is my understanding so far, as I have only recently started to learn about these )

I think that the website has made an error there ! There are a couple of golden temples associated with Buddha, I know one is Bylakuppe. They have probably got mixed up with the Amritsar one. Gold is associated with Buddha hence, the golden statues There is a divine golden light that can be experienced in meditation. Also, on higher states of consciousness, some people have experienced groups of people meditating together whilst bathed in a golden light.- some people have coined this as a 'golden temple'

A similarity there..............after all, it is Kabirji ! I think that in both cases the metaphors are consistent, but slightly different to what you guys mentioned above ? I make it,- Mother/WIfe = MAYA Father= soul/jeeva (EGO part) and Son = MIND I did do veechar of this shabad some where, with a little more detail and depth. I'm not sure where this was, but I think I can still remember most of it.

Yes please ! Should you spend 58 mins listening to his foolish justifications about flesh, or should you spend that time meditating ? I know, what my answer is

Why, do you think Kaal can have influence when you are out of the 3 gunas of maya...ie.chuatha pad, turiya avastha...etc. ? cuz, I personally don't believe it can !

Are you referring to this shabad ? ang 1194 ਜੋਇ ਖਸਮੁ ਹੈ ਜਾਇਆ ॥ Jo▫e kẖasam hai jā▫i▫ā. The wife gives birth to her husband. ਪੂਤਿ ਬਾਪੁ ਖੇਲਾਇਆ ॥ Pūṯ bāp kẖelā▫i▫ā. The son leads his father in play. ਬਿਨੁ ਸ੍ਰਵਣਾ ਖੀਰੁ ਪਿਲਾਇਆ ॥੧॥ Bin sarvaṇā kẖīr pilā▫i▫ā. ||1|| Without breasts, the mother nurses her baby. ||1|| ਦੇਖਹੁ ਲੋਗਾ ਕਲਿ ਕੋ ਭਾਉ ॥ Ḏekẖhu logā kal ko bẖā▫o. Behold, people! This is how it is in the Dark Age of Kali Yuga. ਸੁਤਿ ਮੁਕਲਾਈ ਅਪਨੀ ਮਾਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Suṯ muklā▫ī apnī mā▫o. ||1|| rahā▫o. The son marries his mother. ||1||Pause|| ਪਗਾ ਬਿਨੁ ਹੁਰੀਆ ਮਾਰਤਾ ॥ Pagā bin hurī▫ā mārṯā. Without feet, the mortal jumps. ਬਦਨੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਖਿਰ ਖਿਰ ਹਾਸਤਾ ॥ Baḏnai bin kẖir kẖir hāsṯā. Without a mouth, he bursts into laughter. ਨਿਦ੍ਰਾ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਰੁ ਪੈ ਸੋਵੈ ॥ Niḏrā bin nar pai sovai. Without feeling sleepy, he lays down and sleeps. ਬਿਨੁ ਬਾਸਨ ਖੀਰੁ ਬਿਲੋਵੈ ॥੨॥ Bin bāsan kẖīr bilovai. ||2|| Without a churn, the milk is churned. ||2|| ਬਿਨੁ ਅਸਥਨ ਗਊ ਲਵੇਰੀ ॥ Bin asthan ga▫ū laverī. Without udders, the cow gives milk. ਪੈਡੇ ਬਿਨੁ ਬਾਟ ਘਨੇਰੀ ॥ Paide bin bāt gẖanerī. Without travelling, a long journey is made. ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਬਾਟ ਨ ਪਾਈ ॥ Bin saṯgur bāt na pā▫ī. Without the True Guru, the path is not found. ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਸਮਝਾਈ ॥੩॥੩॥ Kaho Kabīr samjẖā▫ī. ||3||3|| say Kabeer, see this, and understand. ||3||3||

In Giani ji's video above, another very important point he made was about the knowledge for abiysee and those on the atam marg. There are countless references by scholars, docs, professors, phd dudes...etc.. But they have NOT done the practical. So, when the practical seeker, seeks the guidance from these,...it quite often comes to a dead end ! The real answers and guidance for one's doing the practical is from the sant, mahapursh, gianis....etc.who have done the same practical themselves. You can't be a car mechanic by just reading the manuals, can you ?

Thanks for that Neo ji. I did come across that somewhere else recently along with other stages as well. There is a lot of overlap and then because the stages can overlap quite a bit, some of them class the overlapped part as a stage itself. The 7 planes of existence, 7 levels of consciousness, 7 chakras, 7 layers of subtle bodies or auric system...etc.. There always seems to be a lot of shadowing over each of them in terms of functions and grounds. However, I have not come across a simplified explanation where they have put them together to try and simplify. I suppose that would be like trying to get all the religions together and simplify as One, which may even be possible with the main cores, when you study the mystics/esoteric layers of metaphors and parables or stories told. going off topic.... may be another thread for looking into these layers again.

Bhagat, I think it's more of an issue of them getting the shaitan=kaal, rather than kaal=shaitaan. In other words, I think Das is saying what I think as well, that they make Devil as some kind of powerful opposite of God (like a duality) whereas, it's the attributes of kaal that have been wrongly misinterpreted as the devil or a very high fallen God angel that went evil. In that book mentioned, that none of us have, but I went through a long time ago, I concluded that it was Kaal - the same time bound negative entity in maya, that is classed as devil. KAAL only has affect in MAYA. When we are in turiya or chutha padh and out of the 3 gunas of maya, then we are also out of the bounds of kaal.

I'm just going to share some personal info and tips of how to try and counteract our own personal obstacles in simran. There are times when you just can't settle in, no matter how hard you try. On the other hand there are times when we settle right in without making much effort. Like everyone else, I have had very early mornings where I get up all psyched and ready to go battle the 5 thieves in the day ahead. Then after doing japji when i try and settle in to the simran...........Nothing !! The mind will wander.., i will start again........ and....... nothing again.. ...This then becomes an ongoing cycle and I will look at the clock and think ''why have i wasted 15 minutes trying to settle in.''? Sometimes, I tell myself that it's not going to happen now and I should maybe attempt later on. Whereas other times I will be adamant that I should be doing it, because even if i try going back to sleep.....I won't.! It almost becomes a corkscrew effect, because if I try and analyze what thoughts are coming in, they can be the thought of 'why can't I settle in, I was fine yesterday, i've slept, i'm fresh...''...etc So you end up thinking about your reason of not focusing, which itself prevents you focusing further.... I'm sure we have our own suggestions of what may work for us personally, but I thought I might suggest a few that i've tried successfully, that maybe you could try and think of next time ! 1) I start with just taking a real deep breath in and filling your chest up. 2) Hold your breath and suspend the chest, and try keep a stillness. -You should feel a settling in silence from within. 3) Then let the breath out slowly when you feel comfortable. (But don't hold it too long so that you reach a maximum point of where you have to get a massive sigh of relief when letting it out) 4) Repeat this about 4 times OR until you feel that little space of inner quietness and stillness when suspending/holding. Usually this should work and give you that 'tuning in' kick to get going. ****If this doesn't help, then I usually think back to what I used to do when I started in the earlier days ? For me, I tend to just picture a mental image of my favorite Guru Nanak portrait or some other Guruji picture in the house. NOTE- this is not ''idol worship'' stuff,- but a point of focus. The worship process starts when you bring the gurmantar in, in my opinion, i have never seen it as manmat ! ****Another little tip that could be useful after you have started and then seem to drift away is to- ....Just open your eyes and gaze right in front of you without moving your eyes around or looking around the room. - Just look at whatever object is in front of you for only a split second, and then close your eyes back. ****-I usually put my focus to a central point in between the eyebrows and slightly higher (agna chakra area). -Just look for this little dot of light or even a dot that is darker than the background screen you see. -When you see it keep your eyes on this, as it will help keep the eyes still. .....I know it gets painful for some people to look at that point, if so you could just look at any central point lower down in stead. This can be the bridge between eyes or the tip of your nose. ****Another method that I sometimes revert to is to put your Dhian on navel whilst listening to the 'Waheguru' gurmantar. This is useful if you are doing the saas graas /saas graas I explained in ealier post where the navel pull in/out is being used. I used to find this very useful when i started saas graas because i would get the sequence of -'navel in and wahe'- the wrong way round. The dhian on navel would help keep the correct sequence as well as the simran itself. NOTE- the above few techniques are about focus whilst paying attention to the sound/dhun of gurmantar. It's not happening if your dhian is on the navel/3rd eye and you are not paying attention to ''Wahe-Guru'' I will add some more little tips/techniques that i have found useful if you guys find these useful. Even now, I find that sometimes you forget what to do if you can't focus. So, it's a good idea to 'revise' these like a college student to remember them when needed. I often read through tips/techniques every now and again as a little refresher course.

Absolutely ! Thanks Namdhari veera, that was the most trusting and reliable video, that I really needed. He was absolutely spot on and can also prepare us for the long journey ahead. These naad that we are going through are just the lower stages of passing through the realms. I remember namdhari veerjee mentioning that when the True Anhad toor is heard in its pure form, then there will be no thoughts to distract. From what I gathered from the video,..the simran must carry on, and I assume silent jap/whisper. He mentioned the 8th avastha stage that sant jarnail singh ji had approached (4.30mins), Does anyone know what stages he was referring to here ? I needed the obstacle examples he mentioned, because lately I have been trying rom rom and have been experiencing the navel vibrations (not any pain though). Anyway i have been passing water like crazy for past few days and was planning to get my urine tested for glucose and ketones on Monday to check for diabetes ! (It's because One of the early symptoms of diabetes is passing excess urine and increase in thirst !) Well, I'm gonna leave it for now after what he said and see if it gets worst or persists ...........pheewww !

Yep, carry the pepper spray and hold it firmly in one hand whilst hand is in pocket at all times. If point of attack arises, then within 1-2 seconds it can be pulled aimed and sprayed. And always start shouting or screaming at the same time, as it will alert others and scare them away hopefully.

I can understand Harsharan ji. I always remember my elders and others saying that you want to put your head at Guru Nanak ji's feet if you have darshan. But I ALWAYS felt that I would want to just Hug him or better still, I imagined him (and still do), putting his arms out to hug me. Even know when meditating and getting distracted with thoughts, I sometimes try and bring myself back by Imagining him standing in front of me with his arms out along with a warming smile. Just the thought makes my heat thump !