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Just two more questions?


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Gurfateh

At the risk of irritating Shaheediyan Veer :LOL: I just wanted to ask two more questions. I appreciate the answers given in the other thread and I just wanted to explain why I believe Im so confused before asking two more questions.

I am from a very religious family close to Nanaksar, and Ive been brought up with listening to the Mahapurukhs bachan and have knowledge of Kirtan and Bani at some very lowly level and I still have doubts, its something my family members consider almost a sin (when I ask them things) as Im expected just to know and 'get on with it'. Before I was married I had an unfortunate dialogue through the net with someone who was out to destroy whatever faith I had in Sikhi. This shook me and I has very misled at that time, I found with Guru Ji's grace a wonderful life partner who is a practising Amritdhari Singh. He understands my doubts but as he never questioned a lot of what I do, he tries to support me however he can. He's even said I could wear a dastaar if I wanted even though my in laws would not like it.

Now, with the birth of our twin daughters after my son Im scared for them. Ive seen too many Amritdhari kids cutting off their hair and not knowing what they were doing. I spoke to my Dad about certain things and I keep getting the same answer, dont bother with the doubts just follow what is true. I know reading the Bani is the 1st step but I hope I can clear a few things by posting here so Il feel better. I just want my kids to have a solid foundation and leave them to make up their minds knowing Ive provided them with good things and things which make sense. My mum used to tell me I cant cut my hair but after you're married, do what you want. I love my family, but we cant keep answering kids the same way, its not working clearly. I am doing as much as I can (whenever I have time from changing nappies lol) to read and find out things.

I dont want to cause any arguments and these are genuine questions, I hope people here with so much knowledge can answer them for me.

1. The Namdhari Sikh dont believe in the Gurgaddi being given to Guru Granth Sahib Jee, what is their reasons? And how do we prove that the Gaddi was in fact given to the Shabad Guru?

2. A cousin of mine told me the line 'saabath soorath dastaar sira' proved we should keep kesh and wear dastaar but when my husband and I researched this we found sikhitothemax explained it as soorath being awareness and that it should be awareness donned on the head like a dastaar and according to prof sahib singh's teeka (I hope I got that rite) he explains it as a sermon to the muslims where Guru Sahib refers to the futility of circumcision and shaving of the moustache and that they should be saabath soorath (complete form as created by God) if they want to wear a dastaar (a symbol of respect in those days)? Is this the correct translation?

Thanks

gurfateh!

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Bhenji, you can ask as many questions as you like, and this is indeed the way to go - inquiring mind. All I am saying is don't get get lost in history - the confusion never ends. It's only worth looking at history ni depth (if you wish to) once your faith and beliefs have been developed - once your prem is concrete - because until then - this clever mun will keep distracting us.

1. The Namdhari Sikh dont believe in the Gurgaddi being given to Guru Granth Sahib Jee, what is their reasons? And how do we prove that the Gaddi was in fact given to the Shabad Guru?

This discussion has been had on this forum - N30 Singh could you provide a link for Bhenji. There is no ponit initiating a new discussion. Namdhari are a marginal sikh group who have very strong Sikh traditions but differ on their view of history. The rest of the Panthic Sampradai/Jathai are unanimous i.e. Nirmalai, Seva Panthi, Nihangs, various Taksaals and new movements.

2. A cousin of mine told me the line 'saabath soorath dastaar sira' proved we should keep kesh and wear dastaar but when my husband and I researched this we found sikhitothemax explained it as soorath being awareness and that it should be awareness donned on the head like a dastaar and according to prof sahib singh's teeka (I hope I got that rite) he explains it as a sermon to the muslims where Guru Sahib refers to the futility of circumcision and shaving of the moustache and that they should be saabath soorath (complete form as created by God) if they want to wear a dastaar (a symbol of respect in those days)? Is this the correct translation?

I agre with respected Prof Sahib Singhs translation. The only people that don't in fact agree with it are AKJ - which is a modern reformist Sikh movement - even though they also mainly have good Sikh traditions.

All the factions of the Panth (inc traditional) agree on Kes as Kakaar, only AKJ believe that Keski is Kakaar - this is due to Bhasauria influence - again this discussion has been had here also, someone kindly provide the link for Bhenji. Again, as I said - religigious rituals evolve - do whatever your heart agrees with - the arguements will continue until the cows come home. It makes no difference to your bhagti whether you wear Keski or not. From what I have learnt - it was only the rare Nihangniyan that ever wore keski - so that the enemy could not tell the difference - also as they were shatardhaari and training - they were treated as men in teh Khalsa fauj. Otherwise Skihniyan were no different to their Hindu counterparts in appearance bar kirpan, kara etc.

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To be honest Bhen Ji, if you still have access to them, you will learn more from listening to the Bachans of Mahapursh than on here or any forum.

There are a number of traditional Sampardas that stretch back to Guru Ji's time. They all agree that Guru Gaddi was given to Guru Granth Sahib Ji. For me, this is enough proof. There are written accounts as well. The rest is your own faith.

You are right that the Tuk you mention often gets misinterpreted but there is also no doubt that Kesh must be kept uncut and covered.

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its not that the tuk gets misrepresented. Its cos there are many different meanings of tuks in gurbani. There are lines in Guru Granth Sahib that can have more than one meaning, and i remember Sant Gurbachan Singh once saying that there are some lines which have upto 12 different meanings.

So the above line saabat soorat that Bhenji has given, i wouldnt say any1 translation is absolutley wrong, its just the angle throu which we look at them that differs from others.

But it is hard to keep kids on the path. i do worry a little about my kids not being pakka in sikhi.

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Neo Jee could you please post the links to the past threads on Keski and Namdharis, thankyou

sorry for long wait here:

Here is the link on discussion of namdharis forum had couple of years ago:

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...topic.php?t=897

As far as keski discussion goes, there are multiple discussion/debates on keski, here are the links just go through them whenever time permits:

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...highlight=keski

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...highlight=keski

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...highlight=keski

enjoy !

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