Laura Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 I have a boyfriend who's an American Sikh, we do not have a sexual relationship but spend a lot of time together. I am not a Sikh, I'm a Buddhist, and we agree on most things. He's has many virtues for sure and does good for a lot of people, He's a good person. There is something he does that affects me a lot, and it is that even though he is really good to me, he likes to look at pretty women when they walk by... all the time, he doesn’t miss one! I've told him that I don't mind if he does that (all man do) but not to do it in front of me it’s all, he argues that beauty is beauty and that the same way it is ok to admire the beauty of trees and mountains, it is ok to admire the beauty of women. He doesn't understand that this hurts me. What could I tell him to make him understand that this is wrong? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valli singh Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Traditionally a Sikh man should lower his gaze when a woman not related to him is near by. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Guru Gobind Singh Ji says: "Par-Istri, Ma-Bhain, Dhi-Bhain, kar jaanani. Par Istri da sang nahi karna Recognize all other women other than your own, as mothers, sisters and daughters. Do not engage in marital behavior with them." If your boyfriend is not willing to listen to the advice of his spiritual father or master, then he is not really much of a Sikh. Share this with him and ask him if he would stare at and admire his own mothers and sisters beauty the same way he admires beautiful strangers.... If he says yes, then I think its pretty clear his ethics are not quite what you thought, if he says no, you win! Good luck. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 "Traditionally a Sikh man should lower his gaze when a woman not related to him is near by." Thats interesting, I can only think of one person I have met in my whole life who does that, a friends Father - its an amazing quality. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 "Traditionally a Sikh man should lower his gaze when a woman not related to him is near by." Thats interesting, I can only think of person I have met in my whole life who does that, a friends Father - its an amazing quality. That's true. Not many people follow these ways anymore. Our elders (grand perents generation) lived by these ethics. I'm fortunate that my perents instilled these ethics in me and my siblings. Also if you know anyone that knew a great Mahapursh like Sant Jernail Singh Bindrawala he also had this quality in him. He would lower his gaze or turn the direction of his eyes else where when a lady would be near him. I've confirmed this from my relatives who have met him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Thats cool. Sadly, most of the modern day Sants and Raagis I have come across, do not share this quality for whatever reason. I see this quality as a pure aspect of that Shahenshah, who would not even bless an aurath with his own hands nor allow one to touch his charan, instead choosing to bless her with a stick. Dasmesh-Pita was the epitome of marital devotion and moral standard. It was the practice of these types of discipline of the highest order, that made the Khalsa anmol and ready to sacrifice their all for dharma. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 I read a sakhi once where a woman comes to Guru Gobind Singh ji to recieve his blessings. He touches her with the tip of his arrow and she says something like "Maharaj ji, why did you not bless me with your holy hands" ... Mahaaraj answered "With these hands, i have never touched any woman besides my beloved wife"... beautiful story 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Posted May 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Thank you very much to all. Your words are very helpfull 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valli singh Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Posted May 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 In another forum somebody else replied this to me: "In Sikhism we believe that outside of marriage men and woman are to respect each other as brother and sister. A relationship without the commitment of marriage has blurred boundaries which foster feelings of vulnerability and insecurity such as you are experiencing." If he is a white american man, that was born into a traditional or "standar" white american family, how is he supposed to meet woman and start a family? As I said, we do not engage in sexual conduct and we have been together for about 2 yrs. is this wrong? (not for me ofcourse, I'm a buddhist) What do you all think about this person's commentary? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 The commentary provided by the other poster is true because in the traditional sense the family would be involved in the selection of a marriage partner for him. If he is from a white American background especially if he is from the Yogi Bhajan background then if he is born into a white American Sikh family then they do also take a hand in selecting a marriage partner. In the earlier days Yogi Bhajan used to choose the marriage partner for them. So technically a Sikh should not be in a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship although from what you have written yours is not what one would describe as the usual western boyfriend-girlfriend relationship which are known for the physical relationship. Your relationship seems to be one which some Punjabi Sikhs in the West would have no problem with their son or daughter having provided that the boy and girl have made a commitment to get married, ie they are engaged. As for his wandering eyes with regard to other women, I think this would be a problem for any women especially if she is with her man and he still looks at other women. The other posters have given you some very good background about the way a ideal Sikh should conduct himself. In the western environment where some women dress in such a way as to attract the attentions of men, it might be difficult for him to stop himself looking at these women but he should have enough self control to stop himself especially when he is with you. The reason for not staring at women is to do with the fact that it can be a short leap from 'admiring' the beauty of a woman to then having lustful thoughts about her. This is not to say that he is like that but this is the reason for the injunction. His excuse of comparing the beauty of trees and mountains with that of women is a clever excuse but he can't have lustful thoughts about trees and mountains but he can about women. Personally I think you will need in the end to let him know that what he does is bothering you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 In 3HO circles, its absolutely the norm for Sikhs within this modern Sikh group to date and marry, both Sikhs and non-Sikhs. In fact, the 1st generation Sikhs of this movement whose parents became the first white Sikhs, date etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Posted May 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 The commentary provided by the other poster is true because in the traditional sense the family would be involved in the selection of a marriage partner for him. If he is from a white American background especially if he is from the Yogi Bhajan background then if he is born into a white American Sikh family then they do also take a hand in selecting a marriage partner. In the earlier days Yogi Bhajan used to choose the marriage partner for them. So technically a Sikh should not be in a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship although from what you have written yours is not what one would describe as the usual western boyfriend-girlfriend relationship which are known for the physical relationship. Your relationship seems to be one which some Punjabi Sikhs in the West would have no problem with their son or daughter having provided that the boy and girl have made a commitment to get married, ie they are engaged. As for his wandering eyes with regard to other women, I think this would be a problem for any women especially if she is with her man and he still looks at other women. The other posters have given you some very good background about the way a ideal Sikh should conduct himself. In the western environment where some women dress in such a way as to attract the attentions of men, it might be difficult for him to stop himself looking at these women but he should have enough self control to stop himself especially when he is with you. The reason for not staring at women is to do with the fact that it can be a short leap from 'admiring' the beauty of a woman to then having lustful thoughts about her. This is not to say that he is like that but this is the reason for the injunction. His excuse of comparing the beauty of trees and mountains with that of women is a clever excuse but he can't have lustful thoughts about trees and mountains but he can about women. Personally I think you will need in the end to let him know that what he does is bothering you. Well, we've talked about it without success. He stoped being evasive with his speech and said that yes, he is human and yes, he looks at other woman but keeps denying that he was looking at any the other night (which is what started the argument). I've gone through this many times before with him, he got a little better about it but as you all see he still does it. I have observed myself and observed that I am not just obsessing about something that isn't there and probably seeing what my jelausy wants me to see, but it really does happen!! I swear, even when I think he might be looking at a atractive girl I ussualy don't care until I see him do it over and over again. Basicaly, I've doubted myself enough to know the difference between having a distorted view from jelausy and soemthing that is happening right in front of my eyes... Is it possible that he really doesn't realize of what he does to the point of just truly believing he doesn't? what is going on. This is a very inteligent man, and I mean VERY INTELIGENT, how could he not notice? Anyway, I might end the relationship, not just because of this of course, although I am trully tired of it, he also has other issues and talks too much about religion for someone that carries it like this. He is older than I too, I'm 23 and he is 50. The more I learn about sikhism the more I realize how sneaky he is, not to say that he's bad, I actually believe that he carries better than others, I've never sensed anger from him for example, in 3 years that I've known him, and he is all about helping others, and many other virtues... but he still has way to go if he's going to think of himself as a true sikh. I think for example that he should've never approached me now, i think he probably should've tried harder at trying to get his parents involve to find a wife. I've said enough. Thanks to everyone, your words thought me more about sikhism and helped me face the issue better with him. Blessings to all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valli singh Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.