Terms Used In Sri Dasam Granth

[singh2]

First line refers to Durga, second line refers to Chandi. maybe you need to go learn how to read Gurmukhi.

"ਚੰਡੀ ਕਾਲੀ ਦੁਹੂੰ ਮਿਲਿ ਕੀਨੋ ਇਹੈ ਬਿਚਾਰ ॥

Chandi and Kali both together took this decision;

"ਹਉ ਹਨਿਹੋ ਤੂੰ ਸ੍ਰਉਨ ਪੀ ਅਰਿ ਦਲਿ ਡਾਰਹਿ ਮਾਰਿ ॥੧੬੭॥"

I shall kill the demons and thou drinkest their blood; in this way we shall kill all the enemies."167.

page 220

i.e. Chandi, Kali and Durga are different Devi manifestations.

"ਨਿਰਖ ਚੰਡਕਾ ਤਾਸ ਕੋ ਤਬੈ ਬਚਨ ਇਹ ਕੀਨ ॥"

Chandika, seeing her, thus spoke to her;

"ਹੇ ਪੁਤ੍ਰੀ ਤੂੰ ਕਾਲਿਕਾ ਹੋਹੁ ਜੁ ਮੁਝ ਮੈ ਲੀਨ ॥੭੬॥"

O my daughter Kalika, merge in me.76.

As from above Kali arose from Chandi, likewise Chandi from Durga (if i recall corectly).

Words are to be interpreted per the context. same word will mean differently per the context.it has been told to you many many times. keep in mind.

[navjot2]

Navjot Ji,

What is Durga? Its not a trick question, I feel there may be crossed wires in this thread, I would be interested in your complete understanding of what Durga is in Hindu (I use the word loosely) mat and Durga in Guru Mat.

Dhanvaad Jeeo.

Hi

thanks for sincere question.

Durga, Bhavani, Sharada, Devi etc are all Shakti rupas (forms of SHakti) - Shakti is Akal's Shakti but differenetiated from Akal, who is beyond Shakti realm.

Its Akals Shakti. It serves Akal and one way of doing this is that it helps His Devotees. I am not disagreeing that there is Only One.

What I am saying is that if Guru used the word Bhavani we should respect that. Not psychologically censor it.

Guru ji is not limited to an ideology. This SIngh2 person is saying that nothing created is Akal. Yes that is one way that Guru describes it. But also Guru says that God is the sky, the water, the trees, in Anand Paath it says the universe is God's body. People only take this metaphporically, why?

a poet can make all kind of metaphorical claims about God without knwoing anything about Him. But Gurus say it how they see it. So it is wrong to treat Gurbani like poetry and say it is metaphorical just because it doesnt make sense to you personally.

'Ek Tu Hi'- One Only You.

[Kaljug]

singh2

firstly i studied panjabi when i was younger at panjabi school. maybe if you did that you wouldnt have to run to 'giana- jani-translated-dot-click '. and i already told you just ebcause you assert something doesnt make it true orr have any discursive value.

theres a difference between describing someone (as in an epithet) and adressing someone (where terms of respect are used). Even in common hindi phrasing they say 'hamara maat pita'.

LOL

You need to go back to Punjabi school. The male possessive is used when a group of related male and female nouns are being referred to, it's never used when only a female noun is present: you would never say "hamara mata" to refer to your own mother or "hamari pita" to your own father unless you were an illiterate barbarian or an RSS goon clutching at straws to try to prove his non-existent argument.

Go back to worshipping your stones and paying brahmins to tell you the most auspicious time to scratch your ass. Waheguru is greater than these little devis and devatas you are so fond of.

K.

[navjot2]

Fateh!

See here for an essay on the Nihang understanding of Shiva-Shakti:

http://nihangsingh.org/Shiv-Shakti.html

See in particular the quote from Baba Santa Singh's katha on Dasam Granth:

"We call that Shakti what Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji has written is the mother of the universe and who has created Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva (quotes 30th verse of Japji Sahib). God being confined within himself gave hukam (command) for his power to become manifest, that Shakti created the whole world and thus takes the form of the mother… some worship Shakti as Bhavani, others as Kalika and others as Chandi. We worship this shakti in the form of our weapons." (Audio Recording, April 1995)

He makes it clear that Shakti for Sikhs is Parmesar Himself.

See also the pankti from Guru Granth Sahib which explains the play of Shiv-Shakti being beneath Waheguru (and not identical with Him):

'There is no Shiva or Shakti, no water or wind, no world of form where the True Guru, the Yogi, dwells, where the Imperishable Lord Vaheguru, the Unapproachable Master abides.' (Adi Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 883)

Regards,

K.

Bhavani, Kallika and Chandi- all recognised as forms of this Shakti in Dasam Granth. This person is himself describing what i am. and he is doing it pretty sweetly.

Its no secret that Nihungs 'worship' literally their weapons. and that they read Dasam Bani. So you think when they read Dasam Bani every time they hear the word 'eight armed' or 'Bhavani' they are it only means a sword?

p.s. why have you censored whatever word Guru used for God in that SGGS quote with the word 'Vaheguru'?

also first you are saying that Parmeshar is that Shakti, then you are quoting to say the True Guru is beyond Shakti- hence beyond Parmeshar? See where your stupid ideological games are landing you?

no offence but you come across as seriously stupid.

[navjot2]

You don't have to say it, my Hindu friend, you just have to imply it by claiming that there is no issue with being a Sikh and worshipping stones, or that Dasmesh Pita propitiated some Hindu goddess.

Matey, you are the one getting all excited by some fictional multi-armed chick from heaven, and you claim I am the one with the fantasies? Bwahahaha!

And please keep throwing around your Hinduphobe and fanatic labels for anyone who disagrees with your ridiculous RSS-inspired theories. In the absence of evidence and proof, hurling such insults is the only thing holding your posts together.

K.

you pitiful state of affairs is that you have reduced yourself to learning from blogs etc. so it is one idiot teaching another. so what exactly have you absorbed? Gurmati or some random persons overactive imagination? and exactly whose chela have you become in the process?

'multi armed chick' as you put it is described in Dasam Bani. FACT. see above.

bye!

[navjot2]

LOL

You need to go back to Punjabi school. The male possessive is used when a group of related male and female nouns are being referred to, it's never used when only a female noun is present: you would never say "hamara mata" to refer to your own mother or "hamari pita" to your own father unless you were an illiterate barbarian or an RSS goon clutching at straws to try to prove his non-existent argument.

Go back to worshipping your stones and paying brahmins to tell you the most auspicious time to scratch your ass. Waheguru is greater than these little devis and devatas you are so fond of.

K.

Kalika is being refered to as part of a couple. idiot.

maybe you savages dont understand terms of respect. do you even know panjabi?

[Kaljug]

Guru ji is not limited to an ideology. This SIngh2 person is saying that nothing created is Akal. Yes that is one way that Guru describes it. But also Guru says that God is the sky, the water, the trees, in Anand Paath it says the universe is God's body. People only take this metaphporically, why?

No, God is visible in the sky, the trees, the universe for those with dib drisht - but these things are not equivalent to God. That is why it is a metaphor, and that is why Gurbani forbids worship of murtis, devatas, and any other created creature.

Similarly, God is in you and me, but no one worships you as God and no one worships me as God (well, not unless I pay them lots of money first). It's the same with all of the devis and devatas. In Sikhi, they are described as creations of Akal, but the Gurus considered them as beings unworthy of worship as they all sought to have people worship them as God.

K.

[navjot2]

Shiv in Gurbani always mean akal purakh who does not take birth and does not die.

do you think Shaiva think that their Godhead takes birth and dies?

[Kaljug]

no offence but you come across as seriously stupid.

No offence, but you come across as constantly premenstrual. Perhaps it is as a result of your devotion to Durga and the principle of becoming what you worship.

K.

[Kaljug]

do you think Shaiva think that their Godhead takes birth and dies?

No doubt they don't, but that is why they are Shaivites and we are Sikhs. Dasam Bani makes it clear that all these Devatas will die, and that they have lied to their devotees about being God himself.

K.

[navjot2]

No, God is visible in the sky, the trees, the universe for those with dib drisht - but these things are not equivalent to God. That is why it is a metaphor, and that is why Gurbani forbids worship of murtis, devatas, and any other created creature.

Similarly, God is in you and me, but no one worships you as God and no one worships me as God (well, not unless I pay them lots of money first). It's the same with all of the devis and devatas. In Sikhi, they are described as creations of Akal, but the Gurus considered them as beings unworthy of worship as they all sought to have people worship them as God.

K.

lol. what happened to you? thats actually a very sweet response.

again this is you 'interpretation'.

i think the point is not to limit God to anything. then he is EVERYTHING.

"ਬ੍ਰਿਛਸ ਤੁਹੀਂ ॥ ਪਤਸ ਤੁਹੀਂ ॥ ਛਿਤਸ ਤੁਹੀਂ ॥ ਉਰਧਸ ਤੁਹੀਂ ॥੧੪॥੬੪॥"

O Lord! Thou art the tree. O Lord! Thou art the leaf. O Lord ! Thou art the earth. O Lord ! Thou art the sky. 14. 64.

obviously the above does not mean do worship of leaf or the sky, unless of course you are worshipping Him in/as this form.

I am actually not denying that Parmeshar Itself is Shakti. Never have. What I am pointing out is that they have been differentiated in parts of Dasam Bani. duh.

'TU HI BHAVANI- you are Bhavani'. These are all His forms Alone.

[Kaljug]

you pitiful state of affairs is that you have reduced yourself to learning from blogs etc. so it is one idiot teaching another. so what exactly have you absorbed? Gurmati or some random persons overactive imagination? and exactly whose chela have you become in the process?

'multi armed chick' as you put it is described in Dasam Bani. FACT. see above.

bye!

Your pitiful state of affairs is that you have only your own inflated ego to guide you. You have dismissed everything that every Sikh on this forum is telling you, that the Nihangs, the greatest scholars of Dasam Bani , are you telling you, that the greatest Sikh of the last century Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale tells you, and even the tuks in Gurbani are telling you about the haumai of the deavatay.

Keep on worshipping your devatay and see where they lead you. Until you abandon your worship of them, you are nothing but a Hindu slave disguised as a Sikh.

Namaste!

K.

[Kaljug]

lol. what happened to you? thats actually a very sweet response.

again this is you 'interpretation'.

i think the point is not to limit God to anything. then he is EVERYTHING.

"ਬ੍ਰਿਛਸ ਤੁਹੀਂ ॥ ਪਤਸ ਤੁਹੀਂ ॥ ਛਿਤਸ ਤੁਹੀਂ ॥ ਉਰਧਸ ਤੁਹੀਂ ॥੧੪॥੬੪॥"

O Lord! Thou art the tree. O Lord! Thou art the leaf. O Lord ! Thou art the earth. O Lord ! Thou art the sky. 14. 64.

obviously the above does not mean do worship of leaf or the sky, unless of course you are worshipping Him in/as this form.

All fine until the bolded section. In Sikhi, there is no "worshipping him in/as any form" except as shabad guru and shastar.

K.

Edited August 27, 2009 by Kaljug

[singh2]

do you think Shaiva think that their Godhead takes birth and dies?

Do not play tricks here. I said that Siva when referreed in Gurbani always referes to god who is ajoni( Does not take birth).

That siva is totally different from Hindu demigod shiva. I really do not care what youyr shaivites say.

Do you agree to above or not with context to gurbani?

Edited August 28, 2009 by singh2

[singh2]

lol. what happened to you? thats actually a very sweet response.

again this is you 'interpretation'.

i think the point is not to limit God to anything. then he is EVERYTHING.

"ਬ੍ਰਿਛਸ ਤੁਹੀਂ ॥ ਪਤਸ ਤੁਹੀਂ ॥ ਛਿਤਸ ਤੁਹੀਂ ॥ ਉਰਧਸ ਤੁਹੀਂ ॥੧੪॥੬੪॥"

O Lord! Thou art the tree. O Lord! Thou art the leaf. O Lord ! Thou art the earth. O Lord ! Thou art the sky. 14. 64.

obviously the above does not mean do worship of leaf or the sky, unless of course you are worshipping Him in/as this form.

I am actually not denying that Parmeshar Itself is Shakti. Never have. What I am pointing out is that they have been differentiated in parts of Dasam Bani. duh.

'TU HI BHAVANI- you are Bhavani'. These are all His forms Alone.

Yes in the same way as Gur essar, gur gorakh , Gur parbati mai. It means all these demigods are creation of God.

So is Bhavani and Durga. That does not mean we start worshipping these deities.

[navjot2]

Your pitiful state of affairs is that you have only your own inflated ego to guide you. You have dismissed everything that every Sikh on this forum is telling you, that the Nihangs, the greatest scholars of Dasam Bani , are you telling you, that the greatest Sikh of the last century Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale tells you, and even the tuks in Gurbani are telling you about the haumai of the deavatay.

Keep on worshipping your devatay and see where they lead you. Until you abandon your worship of them, you are nothing but a Hindu slave disguised as a Sikh.

Namaste!

K.

blah blah blah and you call me premenstrual.

Bhindrawale was an egoist. if you want to idol worship him its your tragedy.

you idiots have debased yourselfs by folowing all these stupid people. you can only be described as stupid since i dont even think you have comprehended what i am saying all this time, hence the lack fo coherent arguement in response.

which devtay am i tellng you to worship? are you argueing with my or your imagination? the latter is out of my hands sorry dont project it on me.

are you still crying because i told a Hindu devotee he doesnt have to stop his Shiv Puja to read Gurbani? arent you the arrogant prat who then went and started up a thread about Shiva so you could air your views about him or whatever? Oh yeah really sensitive. Because thats the kind of filth that you are.

Whoever Akal wants to worship Him, He Himself arranges for them. Your 'ideology' is nothing.

[navjot2]

All fine until the bolded section. In Sikhi, there is no "worshipping him in/as any form" except as shabad guru and shastar.

K.

so what is Guru ji doing in this Paath you idiot?

[singh2]

Siva as akal purakh in gurbani

ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਨਾਚੈ ਸਕਤਿ ਨਿਵਾਰੈ ਸਿਵ ਘਰਿ ਨੀਦ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥

: Anadin naachai sakti nivaarai siva ghar need na hoee:

One who dances (or remains) night and day in Divine Consciousness, he eradicate the spell of Maya (Sakti), from within; once linked to the Supreme Being within, Siva, one will not fall asleep to Maya's delusion again

SGGS 506.

Siva a Hindu deity in Gurbani

ਕਰਣ ਪਲਾਹ ਕਰਹਿ ਸਿਵ ਦੇਵ ॥ ਤਿਲੁ ਨਹੀ ਬੂਝਹਿ ਅਲਖ ਅਭੇਵ ॥:

Karan palaah karahi siva dev. Til nahee boojhahi alakh abhev:

Siva and other demigods lament and moan.

But they know not even an iota of the Invisible and Insscrutable Being

SGGS 867

[navjot2]

Yes in the same way as Gur essar, gur gorakh , Gur parbati mai. It means all these demigods are creation of God.

So is Bhavani and Durga. That does not mean we start worshipping these deities.

yes no one is telling you to start doing puja to Bhavani or Durga. is that what you are so scared of?

let me make it simple for you- Bhavani, Durga- you can take these as epithets of Akal ok?

but if you think these words are different from the Hindu words you are living in denial land

[singh2]

so what is Guru ji doing in this Paath you idiot?

Guru ji is praisng the greatness of akal purakh.

[navjot2]

Do not play tricks here. I said that Siva when referreed in Gurbani always referes to god who is ajoni( Does not take birth).

That siva is totally different from Hindu demigod shiva. I really do not care what youyr shaivites say.

Do you agree to above or not with context to gurbani?

You are playign a game with yourself trying to rid these words completely of their Hindu connotations. so why use the word Shiva in the first place?

Yes theres a difference between Shiva as in The Supreme and Shiva as in the Personality. As in Shaiva

Are you going ot tell me that the word Atma has a completely diff meaning in sikhi than in Hindu dharams?

[singh2]

yes no one is telling you to start doing puja to Bhavani or Durga. is that what you are so scared of?

let me make it simple for you- Bhavani, Durga- you can take these as epithets of Akal ok?

but if you think these words are different from the Hindu words you are living in denial land

They may be anything but Guru ji does not ask boon from such deities anywhere repeat anywhere in Dasam granth.

[navjot2]

Guru ji is praisng the greatness of akal purakh.

where do the words Akal and Purakh appear here? outside of your imagination i mean?

i think you need to differentiate/have respect for between what is actually said and what your imagination or your essays try and say he says

heres some help- whats written on the page is Gurubani, what is written elsewhere/thought is not.

[singh2]

do you think Shaiva think that their Godhead takes birth and dies?

I said that Siva when referreed in Gurbani always referes to god who is ajoni( Does not take birth).

That siva is totally different from Hindu demigod shiva. I really do not care what your shaivites say. They say that there is no God above shiva. he is absolute God. Sikhism trashes that.

Guru sahib is very clear that demigod shiva takes birthj and then die a miserable death. why miserable because He had not been able to come out of maya.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਮਹੇਸਰ ਬਿਸਨ ਸਚੀਪਿਤ ਅੰਤ ਫਸੇ ਜਮ ਫਾਸਿ ਪਰੈਂਗੇ ॥

ब्रहम महेसर बिसन सचीपित अंत फसे जम फासि परैंगे ॥

Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu and Consort of Sachi (Indra) would ultimately fall in the noose of death.

akal ustat, Dasam granth

Edited August 28, 2009 by singh2

[singh2]

You are playign a game with yourself trying to rid these words completely of their Hindu connotations. so why use the word Shiva in the first place?

Yes theres a difference between Shiva as in The Supreme and Shiva as in the Personality. As in Shaiva

Are you going ot tell me that the word Atma has a completely diff meaning in sikhi than in Hindu dharams?

focus on the discussion of siva. Siva in gurbani is always God as is Ram. Do not try to wiggle out from this.

These words are not patented by Hindu thugs. If so show us?