shaheediyan Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Pumpkins in the supermarkets are mega cheap at the moment due to the huge/bulk numbers in which they were bought and stored for Haloween. Great target practice for Chakkars/Karai etc, as well as for practicing sword cutting techniques. I am doing some research on a cost effective method of purchasing good sword cutting targets, Tameshigiri is great, but not cheap in the UK. A near identical option is to use straw beach mats. If anyone knows of any places to purchase these cheap in the UK, please share - I am looking for a unit price of around £1 (or less). Green bamboo is also a good target, but again quite costly in the UK. I am trying to get in touch with some local straw/hay/wheat bale dealers in and around London to see if the material they provide is suitable, and if so try and get it bundled into the right size etc. Any other input/help on this subject would be appreciated. Thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SURYADEV Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Do we get a share of the profits, equity, commision etc if we help you out? LOL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SURYADEV Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Suppose you could use those straw or reed mats they have in India that you sit on when your sunning yourself in the veranda. Rolled up very tightly and tied up with something like thin electrical cable (copper, plastic coated) to give it strength and support. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted October 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Thanks, yes, I have already mentioned those mats in my post above, here they are known as straw beach mats. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted October 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 I wasn't thinking of a profit making venture, I am far too busy in life to fit that in! I thought it would be good to fill some gaps (between us) in terms of seva. I am sure quite a few Singhs from this forum would benefit from putting their skills into 'practice' so to say, be in on an inanimate subject. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaljug Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh! Tatami isn't cheap, but this is the cheapest place I know: http://www.tameshigiri.co.uk/Tatamipage.htm It's cheaper if you can get a few friends together and buy in bulk. Another option is to approach your local Iaijitsu dojo and see if they'd be willing to sell a smaller quantity to you at reduced rates. I used to practice on those cheap yoga mats that you can get from a couple of pounds. Just wrap them around a thin tree branch (so that you have something that has the hardness of bone in the centre), soak them in water as you would tatami, then dry them in the sun before you cut them. I'll ask around and see if there's anything else the local sword guys prefer to cut. K. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted October 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Yes generally, for more realistic 'flesh' practice, bamboo covered by tightened straw is traditional in some Japanese circles. If you are talking about rubber yoga mats, not a fan, I prefer fibrous texture, it makes if more difficult to cut and more realistic me thinks, plus I am a traditionalist, lol. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaljug Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 (edited) Yes generally, for more realistic 'flesh' practice, bamboo covered by tightened straw is traditional in some Japanese circles. If you are talking about rubber yoga mats, not a fan, I prefer fibrous texture, it makes if more difficult to cut and more realistic me thinks, plus I am a traditionalist, lol. Nah, not the rubber ones, you can get cheap nasty ones made of some foamy material that swells and thickens when you soak them in water. It's a bit like cutting off the limb of a big-boned fatty. Straw or hay would also work fine if you soak them, but you are going to have to put in some work tying them up tightly enough. It's messy work, so not something I'd recommend doing in a living room. ;-) These days I prefer practising on Chavs. They are cheaper than tatami and easily available (they are especially plentiful in Greggs at lunchtime). K. Edited October 19, 2009 by Kaljug 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maha Singh Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Traditionally Ganneh (Sugarcane)and Coconuts were used as to practise cutting and target practise for Chakar throwing, that is why when Ganneh are cut during some Akhand Paats as they have a similar strength to bone and skull. Cutting and target practise is not much of a skill to perfect, as the target is standing still and all it takes is a sharp blade and repitition to aquire decent skill. In real indian swordsmanship you dont do big swings, all that is required to cut through flesh is placing the blade on the skin and drawing. What is more important is the meditation upon the different variables of a battle, and constant refinement of strategy, footwork, technique and counters in order to get to the point of killing. If you can hone your ability to practise actual combat for swordsmanship, then the cuts and kills will come automatically without having to purchase straw mats, bamboo, or Tameshigiri. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted October 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Maha Singh I totally agree that the most important part is Yudh Abyaas, but target practice is still very important in terms of acquiring accuracy, feel, touch, strength, technique for real cutting, striking, chopping etc. slashing through a leather jacket for example is not as easy as it seems, and stabbing and drawing (cleanly) is not simple, it requires practice, as does twisting a blade inside a target before pulling it out (this must make me sound like psychopath). accurate Hujs to small targets like the eyes and armpits etc require much practice on targets. Regarding throwing practice i.e. small chakkars or knives, it goes without saying, target practice is most important. Ganneh are basically identical to bamboo in terms of consistency and strength etc, shame you can't get them in the UK! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maha Singh Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 (edited) Maha Singh I totally agree that the most important part is Yudh Abyaas, but target practice is still very important in terms of acquiring accuracy, feel, touch, strength, technique for real cutting, striking, chopping etc. slashing through a leather jacket for example is not as easy as it seems, and stabbing and drawing (cleanly) is not simple, it requires practice, as does twisting a blade inside a target before pulling it out (this must make me sound like psychopath). accurate Hujs to small targets like the eyes and armpits etc require much practice on targets. Regarding throwing practice i.e. small chakkars or knives, it goes without saying, target practice is most important. Ganneh are basically identical to bamboo in terms of consistency and strength etc, shame you can't get them in the UK! Throwing Chakars, Karas and Knives requires little practise as they are suprisingly accurate if you know the technique on how to throw them. In the Danurveda it explains the different ways to improve accuracy and the different types of target. 1 - When both target and yourself are stationary 2 - When target is moving and you are stationary 3 - When both yourself and target are moving You could get to number 2 with straw mats, but the real practise is in 3, unless you put your straw mats on conveyor belts No issue with you trying, but I was thinking you could save yourself the money and mess. Edited October 19, 2009 by Maha Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted October 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 "You could get to number 2 with straw mats, but the real practise is in 3, unless you put your straw mats on conveyor belts" Lol, agreed. Catching and practicing on rabbits (which are plentiful in the UK) is next months topic! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 "You could get to number 2 with straw mats, but the real practise is in 3, unless you put your straw mats on conveyor belts " Sorry, just forgot to add, the mats are for sword practice (hence don't need moving targets), not projectile practice as per Dhanurveda, talking of which, are you familiar with any any other puratan Shastar Vidya granths, specifically open handed combat and sword/weapon combat... Dhanurveda focuses specifically on archery (also transposable to other projectiles i.e. chakkars) but it does make passing mentions of the other 6 forms of combat in Bahuyudha. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maha Singh Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 "You could get to number 2 with straw mats, but the real practise is in 3, unless you put your straw mats on conveyor belts " Sorry, just forgot to add, the mats are for sword practice (hence don't need moving targets), not projectile practice as per Dhanurveda, talking of which, are you familiar with any any other puratan Shastar Vidya granths, specifically open handed combat and sword/weapon combat... Dhanurveda focuses specifically on archery (also transposable to other projectiles i.e. chakkars) but it does make passing mentions of the other 6 forms of combat in Bahuyudha. There is very little if no texts available on Shastarvidiya, Sri Dasam and Sri Sarbloh Darbar speak of certain technqiues, Sooraj Parkash and Parcheen Panth Parkash also mention various techniques and strategies, however without the personal knowledge which is taught by the masters, it is hard to understand or grasp what these are. For example, the technique Chaddeh Gaateh is mentioned in Sooraj Parkash, its meaning is expanded upon briefly in Mahan Kosh (Lat Deh Jor Vich Hath Paakeh, GaRdan Teh Paar Pauna) however unless you have been taught the technique it would be hard to carry it out (mainly due to the skill required to get to the position of dominance to execute the move and understanding how to break structure and balance). Similarly you can learn all the Marams from books, but that doesnt teach you how to hit them in the correct way, how to combine multiple maram strikes together to break an opponents strength, how deep each maram is etc. Traditionally nothing was written down, it is passed to the students by the Gurdev, and the vidiya is learnt thru experience, this is something which you cannot learn through books, hence it would be pointless to write it down. I dont know how much experience you have at Shastarvidiya, but im sure you appreciate how hard it would be to explain, expand and write down the subtle tactics, strategies and footworks to defeat an opponent who can do a myriad of counters, responses depending upon his own skill, timing, and experience. This is why the vidiya is earnt through physical practise, meditation and sacrifice of time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Yes, I do understand and agree with what you say. Its just that Dhanurveda is a pretty comprehensive guide to archery, but I suppose the difference is that this vidya was practiced by Brahmans, hence the extensive written record, lance/spear, swords, mace and wrestling were considered lower forms of combat at that time. Chinese have excellent and detailed records on maram vidya, over a thousand years old... its just interesting to read, because there are so many related areas that one learns about re the habits, culture, atmosphere, training/exercises, breathing techniques, etiquette of that time etc... with basic info on postures etc, which one could use to verify what they are being taught today... I remember whilst researching this field, I came across references to quite a few ancient (2,000 year old) records stemming from Karnataka, which are kept in their University libraries - really comprehensive stuff covering a plethora of styles etc... Hopefully, one of our educated western Tamil brothers will do us the seva of translating them some day (soon)! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 (edited) Maha Singh, could you share with us your knowledge re abyaas on yudh, for me this involves meditating on what I have learnt in a certain session or where I have been caught out, and then visualising the scenario and focusing. Its amazing how different options present themself! Also, I find this method helps to fill in gaps in drills/techniques which one may have forgotten i.e. playing through it. This can obviously be done physically as well with a partner, but sometimes, peace, clarity of thought and focus seem a much better option to solve problems, create strategies (as per chess i.e. counters going up to a number of movements ahead etc)... one can also hone techniques by replaying them again and again in ones head. Some Chinese schools use these 'fight meditations' as part of their training also. Maybe start up a new thread on this topic in your response. Dhanvaad Ji. Edited October 20, 2009 by shaheediyan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Shaheediyan bro, are you just copy and pasting wikipedia and other stuff off the net? lol. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maha Singh Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 What else can be said apart from practise, practise and practise until your mind constantly ticks over with strategies and counters, counter counters etc. Such things are best discussed in person where you can demonstrate the variables. As with anything, you have to think when you first begin, but over time it becomes sutteya sidh. I have messaged you with a text book which you may find interesting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 By the way I have found a cost effective solution for cutting practice, the legendary Kabuli £1 shops sell Bamboo mats around 180cm long by around 80cm wide)! If you buy around 20 pieces or so from them, they may give you a decent discount (i.e. 10% = £2... woohoo)! They are designed to be rolled tight for storage and are made of thin bamboo strips! Just thought I would let any amateur practitioners know (like me, who want to create a mess in the garden). Ta. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 "Shaheediyan bro, are you just copy and pasting wikipedia and other stuff off the net? lol." I didn't know it was comical to make use of multiple sources? For your info (not that it matters), I have a translated Dhanurveda text - if thats what you are refering to - and it doesn't contain many references which which are mentioned in Wiki. Thanks for the info Maha Singh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zulu Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 grab your dhust and practice on him/her...its free...with a jail sentence 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Will have to wait for that, the Pumpkins are giving me a hard time at the minute, their dodging prowess is incredible! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SURYADEV Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 grab your dhust and practice on him/her...its free...with a jail sentence ....with roof over your head, three hot meals a day, AND and PS game-console....not a bad deal eh?! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zulu Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 ....with roof over your head, three hot meals a day, AND and PS game-console....not a bad deal eh?! dont forget random cavity checks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weedol Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 LOL I thought Rasta nah deal wi' violehnce 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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