Simran Question

[dalsingh101]

When doing simran is it preferable to concentrate on the sounds in the original or the actual meanings of what is being said?

When listening to say Japji Sahib, we could solely concentrate on the sound of the bani, say by simultaneously reading a gutka. In my case this will mean I will not understand large chunks of what is being said. Alternatively, with modern technology (such as youtube) we can simultaneously read an English translation. This involves a lot of code switching between Panjabi and English though. There seems to be compromises in each approach whilst each approach also seems to have advantages over the other.

If anyone in the online sangat has sustained experience of simran, especially at amrit velah, I would appreciate some feedback.

[Kaljug]

When doing simran is it preferable to concentrate on the sounds in the original or the actual meanings of what is being said?

When listening to say Japji Sahib, we could solely concentrate on the sound of the bani, say by simultaneously reading a gutka. In my case this will mean I will not understand large chunks of what is being said. Alternatively, with modern technology (such as youtube) we can simultaneously read an English translation. This involves a lot of code switching between Panjabi and English though. There seems to be compromises in each approach whilst each approach also seems to have advantages over the other.

If anyone in the online sangat has sustained experience of simran, especially at amrit velah, I would appreciate some feedback.

It sounds like you are intellectualising the experience too much. IN the words of the Nike advertisement - Just do it. ;-)

When doing paath, your mind should understand what you are saying while your ears concentrate on the sound and rhythm.

For simran, it helps if you do a few malay of Mool Mantra while concentrating on the meanings of each word first, then just listen to yourself recite the Waheguru Gurmantar with full attention. Then let any experiences unfold in their own time.

You may find that your technique changes with increasing experience, which is all good.

K.

K.

[dalsingh101]

Thanks for that advice Kaljug

I heard some people say it is better to repeat the bani out loud instead of in your mind? Is their any substance to that?

[Kaljug]

Thanks for that advice Kaljug

I heard some people say it is better to repeat the bani out loud instead of in your mind? Is their any substance to that?

That's right. Gurmantar is internalised in 4 stages or vaanis which perform a natural progression. These are roughly as follows:

1. Vaikhari, or reciting it aloud

2. Madhyamaa), or uttering it under your breath so that it fills the mind

3. Pashyanti, when Gurmantar fills the universe and ego disappears

4. Paraa, when simran becomes ajapaa jap.

Here's what Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh says about these stages:

The rasna (tongue) of Punj Pyare with Naam Kamaayee (one's who have earnings of Naam) is the rasna of Guru Sahib. Hearing the Naam Gurmantra from the holy and Amrit-drenched tongue of Punj Pyaare with Naam Kamaayee, under the leadership of Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee, causes wonderous, spiritually-attracting Paaras Kala (condition) and immediately after hearing the Naam with ears, the current of Naam Abhyaas runs in the seeker and this current then never stops flowing in the seeker. In every cell of the seeker spiritual Naam convulsions take place. All organs including the mouth, the tongue, the lips and the throat indulge in Naam Abhyaas. This is the greatness of hearing Naam that the seeker indulges in Naam abhyaas without effort. All by itself, effortless Jaap of Naam starts in the seeker. While Japping (reciting, chanting) Naam, the sound or dhuni of Naam too is heard simultaneously. Hearing of Naam and chanting of Naam both become integral part of the seeker for eternal time and every moment the seeker is indulged in Naam.

This hearing and accepting of Naam continues in all works of the seeker. No moment goes by in which the seeker is not reciting Naam and not hearing it. From the most micro dhuni to most moderate dhuni, and from most Para and most Pasanti baani, Swaas abhyaasi Naam just continues. Whatever kind of Naam Abhyaas(i.e. Baikhree, Madhma, Pasanti or Para), that's the kind of dhuni one hears. The main thing is that this dhuni must be heard. To listen to the Naam Jaap roopi Shabad (baani) through your ears, no matter how micro (sooksham tau sooksham dhuni i.e. from Baikhree to the most sooksham i.e. Para) the dhuni, this is what is referred to as Shabad Surat Naam Abhyaas in Gurmat. The Naam dhuni originating from Naam Abhyaas and containing Paaras Kala definitely and surely attracts the surthee of the seeker and as the seeker becomes one with the dhuni, in the same proportion the seeker's surthee gets coloured in the high divine colours. The abhyaasi seeker himself becomes the one uttering Naam and simultaneously becomes the one hearing it.

The fortunate ones, who right from the time they meet Punj Pyaare, have their surthee one with Shabad Dhuni, they have to make no effort to bring their surthee in Naam dhuni because the mystical attracting power of Naam automatically attracts the surthee into the dhuni of Naam. But ones whom Naam has been done Drir at Amrit Sinchaar and have full faith on Naam, but have not yet received Naam Rass (divine taste of Naam) they have to beat or Khadkaa the khanda of Naam with full vigour with Rasna or with Swaas Swaas and with full effort get the surthee to hear the dhuni (sound) of Naam.

It is of utmost importance to get the surthee to hear the dhuni of Naam. Ones who are misled by some misled persons and by persons not knowing about Naam Abhyaas, start getting their surthee tuned to imaginary pictures of the Gurus, they stay devoid from the Gurmat path of Shabad Surat. By placing the imaginary picture in front of the eyes, the condition of having full surthee on Naam Dhuni is never fulfilled and this wrong doing leads them astray from the path of Gurmat. Except for Shabad Surat technique related to Gurmat, all other meditations and contemplating is Buth-Prasthee (idol worshipping). Trying to make an imaginary picture of unreachable and unfathomable Parmeshar is a futile act. Neither this way one gets dhyaan nor one's surthee gets focused. The whole effort goes waste and rather indulging in this act is doing mockery of Vaheguru. To discover the spiritual secrets only Gurmat technique of Shabad Surat can help.

Regards,

K.

[Matheen]

Dalsingh, can you read Gurmukhi? I could point you to some good info?

edit: listen to these (part 1 and 2): http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audio/katha/katha.php?q=f&f=%2F01_Puratan_Katha%2FSant_Ishar_Singh_%28Rara_Sahib_wale%29%2FAatamik_Bachan

and download and read this: http://www.rarasahib.com/downloads.htm#IAL

makes it clear, and it works too.

Edited December 20, 2009 by Matheen