Kishen Bishen In Sri Dasam Granth

[bhooliya]

I came across "Bishen" during my search for mythology. The following I found for it. Guru Sahib mentions "Kishen-Bishen".. Is it possible that he was referring to simply "Krishana and Vishnu"?

BISHEN m Indian (Sikh)

Variant of VISHNU

Source: http://www.behindthename.com/nmc/ind.php

Source: Click here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishen

'Mai na ganeseh pritham manaoon, kishen bishen kabhoon na dhianonn.

I don't recognize Ganesh, Krishana or Vishnu... It's just my curiosity as it goes very well with the whole sentence. I hope Sri Dasam Granth scholars may shed some light on it.

Edited February 12, 2010 by bhooliya

[singh2]

Vishnu is also known as bishen.There are various other names for vishnu namely Madhav, Vasudeva, Prabhu, Chatur Bhuj.

Krishna is an avtar of vishnu.

Guru Gobind singh ji writes in Dasam Granth that he does not recognise them as God. He is only a believer in akal purakh.

[HarjasDevi]

ਮੈ ਨ ਗਨੇਸ਼ਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਮਨਾਊਂ ॥ ਕਿਸ਼ਨ ਬਿਸ਼ਨ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨਹ ਧਿਆਊਂ ॥ਕਾਨ ਸੁਨੇ ਪਹਿਚਾਨ ਨ ਤਿਨ ਸੋਂ ॥ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੀ ਮੋਰੀ ਪਗ ਇਨ ਸੋਂ ॥੪੩੪॥

मै न गनेशहि प्रिथम मनाऊं ॥ किशन बिशन कबहूं नह धिआऊं ॥कान सुने पहिचान न तिन सों ॥ लिव लागी मोरी पग इन सों ॥४३४॥

I do not adore Ganesha in the beginning and also do not mediatate on Krishna and Vishnu; I have only heard about them with my ears and I do not recognize them; my consciousness is absorbed at the feet of the Supreme Kal (the Immanent Brahman).434.

ਮਹਾਕਾਲ ਰਖਵਾਰ ਹਮਾਰੋ ॥ ਮਹਾ ਲੋਹ ਮੈਂ ਕਿੰਕਰ ਥਾਰੋ ॥ ਅਪਨਾ ਜਾਨ ਕਰੋ ਰਖਵਾਰ ॥ ਬਾਹਿ ਗਹੇ ਕੀ ਲਾਜ ਬਿਚਾਰ ॥੪੩੫॥

महाकाल रखवार हमारो ॥ महा लोह मैं किंकर थारो ॥ अपना जान करो रखवार ॥ बाहि गहे की लाज बिचार ॥४३५॥

The Supreme Kal (God) is my Protector and O Steel-Purusha Lort ! I am Thy slave; Protect me, considering me as Thy own and do me the honour of catching my arm.435.

~Shri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji p. 733

The Supreme Kal (God) is my Protector and O Steel-Purusha Lort !

Why have they added (God)? If not to de-emphasize Naam of a devata? Of course the meaning is God, but so is it the same meaning in the devata. Devata in this symbolism IS God!

The Supreme Kal is my Protector and O Steel-Purusha Lord!

"I do not recognize (devatay)," "but am absorbed in the Supreme KAL." And who is KAL if not Kal Bhairavi or feminine counterpart KALIKA? There is no other KAL as a NAAM of anyone else. The same ALL-STEEL, or rendered ALL-IRON is the same as the Kali of Kalijuga, the Devata of the Iron Age. She is the same sarblohi shakti of Jhatka sacrifices who is the Supreme triumph of the battlefield. But it would be interesting to analyze how this tuuk differs from the Gobind Sadhan one.

In Hinduism, Purusha (Sanskrit puruṣa, पुरुष "man, Cosmic man", in Sutra literature also called puṃs "man") is the "self" which pervades the universe. The Vedic divinities are considered to be the human mind's interpretation of the many facets of Purusha.

Purusha

So the Purusha Lord is actually meaning the devatay which the limited human mind perceived the infinite to be. So you can't be referring to the Purusha Lord as NOT being a form or devatay. And the deva form is actually the All-pervading infinite consciousness expressed, underlying, manifest within that finite form. Moreover, it is illogical to have a STEEL infinity. Obviously Steel is a finite form. So the Purusha Lord is the Divine infinite Consciousness in the form of STEEL/KAL.

KALA -(Sanskrit): Time, fate, death (Yama), fate, fragment

Kalim -(Sanskrit): Fight, quarrel

Kali -(Sanskrit): Black, iron

Kali-purusha. Personification of the kali-yuga, the evil age.

The Supreme Kal is my Protector and O Steel-Purusha Lord!

Hymn To Kali. III. Commentary

Ka is Brahma, A is Ananta, La is Atma of the universe, I is subtle, Ka is Brahma, A is Ananta. (Tantrabhidana). Thus it is said that Mahadevi is the subtle, beginningless and endless Atma of the universe. 'Thou who art Brahman without beginning or end.' In the Asitastotia in the Adbhutarainayana shri Rama says, 'I bow to that Thine aspect which is Purusha without beginning and end. the unmanifest Kutastha superior (to Thine aspect) as Prakriti, the Atma of the universe appearing in multiple and differing forms.' Karpuradistotram: Hymn-To-Kali

Another traditional view of the Kali Purusha is that of Kalki. So Purusha is meaning that which the Divine infinite has taken form, and KAL meaning that destructive power which is also protective and has the nature of being the Mother of the Universe. So the forms of KAL, as Kal Bhairava, Kalika, or Kalki are symbolizing the Supreme Lord in the violent protective aspect through the ages to right the balance by destroying wrong-doers.

The eschatological Hindu text Divya Maha Kala Jnana ("The Divine Knowledge of Time") allegedly was composed circa 1000 AD by Jagas Guru Srimad Virat Potaluru Veera Brahmendra Maha Swami. The book describes social conditions before the arrival of Kali Purusha, the Kalki Avatar, by the Kali year 5101 (~ 1999 AD). That being is the incarnation of Kali, the destructive and procreative female aspect of Brahma. At that time, Kali Purusha will be called Sree Sree Sree ("Thrice Great") Veera Bhoga Vasataraya Maha Swami. The text Kala Jnana also describes the current world conditions of sexual perversion and horrid disasters that precede the end of this era of errors. Prophecies

Kali (Sanskrit: काली, Bengali: কালী, both Kālī), also known as Kalika (Bengali: কালিকা, Kālikā), is the Hindu goddess associated with eternal energy. The name Kali means "black" but has, by folk etymology, come to mean "force of time (kala)." Kali is today considered the goddess of time and change. Although sometimes presented as dark and violent, her earliest incarnation as a figure of annihilation still has some influence. More complex Tantric beliefs sometimes extend her role so far as to be the "ultimate reality" or Brahman. She is also revered as Bhavatarini (literally "redeemer of the universe"). Comparatively recent devotional movements largely conceive Kali as a benevolent mother goddess.

Kali is represented as the consort of god Shiva, on whose body she is often seen standing. She is associated with many other Hindu goddesses like Durga, Bhadrakali, Sati, Rudrani, Parvati and Chamunda. She is the foremost among the Dasa-Mahavidyas, ten fierce Tantric goddesses. Kali

The rendering is problematic because look at the context of the tuuk in relation to the pauri. Whole pauri is calling the God as being the very power of the devatay, as acting through them to accomplish heroic deeds and slay the wicked. It is exclaiming that the Divine is also in His creation, and in His Mayajog. It says clearly God is the power of Bhavani, Parvati and Kartekheya/Muruga. He is Durga and Ram and Krishna.

And then it says... I do not recognize ... devatay?

Even as whole pauri is claiming HE IS THE DEVATAY AND ACTING THROUGH THEM AS THEIR UNDERLYING POWER?

ਤੁਹੀ ਰਾਜਸੀ ਸਾਤਕੀ ਤਾਮਸੀ ਹੈ ॥ ਤੁਹੀ ਬਾਲਕਾ ਬਿੱ੍ਰਧਣੀ ਅਉ ਜੁਆ ਹੈ ॥ ਤੁਹੀ ਦਾਨਵੀ ਦੇਵਣੀ ਜੱਛਣੀ ਹੈ ॥ ਤੁਹੀ ਕਿੰਨ੍ਰਣੀ ਮੱਛਣੀ ਕੱਛਣੀ ਹੈ ॥੪੨੮॥

तुही राजसी सातकी तामसी है ॥ तुही बालका बि्रधणी अउ जुआ है ॥ तुही दानवी देवणी ज्छणी है ॥ तुही किंन्रणी म्छणी क्छणी है ॥४२८॥

Thou art Rajas, tamas and Sattva, the three modes of maya; Thou art the three ages of life i.e. childhood, youth and old age; Thou art demoness, goddess and Dakshini; Thou art also Kinnar-woman, fish-girt and Kashyap-woman.428.

ਤੁਹੀ ਦੇਵਤੇਸ਼ੇਸ਼ਣੀ ਦਾਨਵੇਸਾ ॥ ਸਰਹ ਬ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਟਣੀ ਹੈ ਤੁਹੀ ਅਸਤ੍ਰ ਭੇਸਾ ॥ ਤੁਹੀ ਰਾਜ ਰਾਜੇਸ਼੍ਵਰੀ ਜੋਗ ਮਾਯਾ ॥ ਮਹਾ ਮੋਹ ਸੋ ਚਉਦਹੂੰ ਲੋਕ ਛਾਯਾ ॥੪੨੯॥

तुही देवतेशेशणी दानवेसा ॥ सरह ब्रिशटणी है तुही असत्र भेसा ॥ तुही राज राजेश्वरी जोग माया ॥ महा मोह सो चउदहूं लोक छाया ॥४२९॥

Thou art the power of gods and the vision of the demons; Thou art the steel-striker and wielder of arms; Thou art Rajrajeshwari and Yogmaya and there is the prevalence of your maya in all the fourteen worlds.429.

ਤੁਹੀ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮੀ ਬੈਸ਼ਨਵੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਭਵਾਨੀ ॥ ਤੁਹੀ ਬਾਸਵੀ ਈਸ਼੍ਵਰੀ ਕਾਰਤਕਯਾਨੀ ॥ ਤੁਹੀ ਅੰਬਕਾ ਦੁਸ਼ਟਹਾ ਮੁੰਡ ਮਾਲੀ ॥ ਤੁਹੀ ਕਸ਼ਟ ਹੰਤੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕੈ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਲੀ ॥੪੩੦॥

तुही ब्राहमी बैशनवी स्री भवानी ॥ तुही बासवी ईश्वरी कारतकयानी ॥ तुही अमबका दुशटहा मुंड माली ॥ तुही कशट हंती क्रिपा कै क्रिपाली ॥४३०॥

Thou art the power the of Brahmani, Vaishnavi, Bhavani, Basavi, Parvati and Kartikeya; Thou art Ambika and the wearer of the necklace of skulls; O Goddess! Thou art the destroyer of the sufferings of all and also gracious towards all.430.

ਤੁਮੀ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣੀ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਹਿਰੰਨਾਛ ਮਾਰਯੋ ॥ ਹਰੰਨਾਕਸ਼ੰ ਸਿੰਘਣੀ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਪਛਾਰਯੋ ॥ ਤੁਮੀ ਬਾਵਨੀ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਤਿਨੋ ਲੋਗ ਮਾਪੇ ॥ ਤੁਮੀ ਦੇਵ ਦਾਨੋ ਕੀਏ ਜੱਛ ਥਾਪੇ ॥੪੩੧॥

तुमी ब्राहमणी ह्वै हिरंनाछ मारयो ॥ हरंनाकशं सिंघणी ह्वै पछारयो ॥ तुमी बावनी ह्वै तिनो लोग मापे ॥ तुमी देव दानो कीए ज्छ थापे ॥४३१॥

As the power of Brahm and as the lion, Thou didst overthrow Hiranyakashipu; Thou didst measure the three worlds as the power of Vaman an Thou didst establish the gods, demons and Yakshas.431.

ਤੁਮੀ ਰਾਮ ਹ੍ਵੈਕੈ ਦਸਾਗ੍ਰੀਵ ਖੰਡਯੋ ॥ ਤੁਮੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਕੰਸ ਕੇਸੀ ਬਿਹੰਡਯੋ ॥ ਤੁਮੀ ਜਾਲਪਾ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਬਿੜਾਲਾਛ ਘਾਯੋ ॥ ਤੁਮੀ ਸੁੰਭ ਸੁੰਭ ਨੈਸੁੰਭ ਦਾਨੋ ਖਪਾਯੋ ॥੪੩੨॥

तुमी राम ह्वैकै दसाग्रीव खंडयो ॥ तुमी क्रिशन ह्वै कंस केसी बिहंडयो ॥ तुमी जालपा ह्वै बिड़ालाछ घायो ॥ तुमी सु्मभ सु्मभ नैसु्मभ दानो खपायो ॥४३२॥

Thou didst kill Ravana as Ram; Thou didst kill the demon Keshi as Krishna; Thou didst annihilate the demon Biraksha as Jalapa and Thou didst destroy the demons Sumbh and Nisumbh.432.

ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥

दोहरा ॥

DOHRA

ਦਾਸ ਜਾਨ ਕਰਿ ਦਾਸ ਪਰਿ ਕੀਜੈ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਅਪਾਰ ॥ ਹਾਥ ਦੈ ਰਾਖ ਦੈ ਰਾਖ ਮੁਹਿ ਮਨ ਕ੍ਰਮ ਬਚਨ ਬਿਚਾਰ ॥੪੩੩॥

दास जान करि दास परि कीजै क्रिपा अपार ॥ हाथ दै राख दै राख मुहि मन क्रम बचन बिचार ॥४३३॥

Considering me as Thy slave, be Gracius towards me and keep Thy hand over my head and protect me with Thy mind, action, speech and thought.433.

ਚੌਪਈ ॥

चौपई ॥

CHUPAI

ਮੈ ਨ ਗਨੇਸ਼ਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਮਨਾਊਂ ॥ ਕਿਸ਼ਨ ਬਿਸ਼ਨ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨਹ ਧਿਆਊਂ ॥ਕਾਨ ਸੁਨੇ ਪਹਿਚਾਨ ਨ ਤਿਨ ਸੋਂ ॥ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੀ ਮੋਰੀ ਪਗ ਇਨ ਸੋਂ ॥੪੩੪॥

मै न गनेशहि प्रिथम मनाऊं ॥ किशन बिशन कबहूं नह धिआऊं ॥कान सुने पहिचान न तिन सों ॥ लिव लागी मोरी पग इन सों ॥४३४॥

I do not adore Ganesha in the beginning and also do not mediatate on Krishna and Vishnu; I have only heard about them with my ears and I do not recognize them; my consciousness is absorbed at the feet of the Supreme Kal (the Immanent Brahman).434.

ਮਹਾਕਾਲ ਰਖਵਾਰ ਹਮਾਰੋ ॥ ਮਹਾ ਲੋਹ ਮੈਂ ਕਿੰਕਰ ਥਾਰੋ ॥ ਅਪਨਾ ਜਾਨ ਕਰੋ ਰਖਵਾਰ ॥ ਬਾਹਿ ਗਹੇ ਕੀ ਲਾਜ ਬਿਚਾਰ ॥੪੩੫॥

महाकाल रखवार हमारो ॥ महा लोह मैं किंकर थारो ॥ अपना जान करो रखवार ॥ बाहि गहे की लाज बिचार ॥४३५॥

The Supreme Kal (God) is my Protector and O Steel-Purusha Lort ! I am Thy slave; Protect me, considering me as Thy own and do me the honour of catching my arm.435.

~Shri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji p. 733

Hindu's traditionally propitiate Ganesh in the beginning, before any prayer or offering. And Vaishnavis worship Krishan-Bishan as Supreme. But the Tuuk, rather than negating devatay seems only to be saying that YOU Kalika, are the Supreme and my source of solace, which makes sense if the emphasis is on propitating Devi before a war. I'm wondering if our Gurmukhi fluent veers could kindly translate the Govind Sadhan tuuk and analyze what differences there might be in the Punjabi translation.

siri-dasam-granth-sahib

Because, as it stands, the Singh Sabha mainstream interpretation and translation seems oddly out of sync with the rest of the pauri. I think too much emphasis is being given to de-legitimize the sanatan symbology and importance of the Divine manifest and acting through sargun forms of devatay and avtaray. And the only purpose this would serve would be the propaganda one such as expounded from SGPC supportive websites such as Dasam Granth Totally Explained which emphasizes among other things:

Condemnation of the concept in Hindu theology that God takes various incarnations

Condemnation of Idol Worship

The very heart of the controversy over the authenticity of the Shri Dasam Granth IS THE SANATAN SYMBOLOGY! And by down-playing certain elements or refering to particular yuuks which support the Singh Sabha anti-sanatan view, the entire Shri Dasam Granth is made to sound like a Tat Khalsa version. So it is CRITICAL for the whole Panth to know what are the controversial elements in the translation and why are there oddly out of place verses in the translation and do they or do they not match up with the version by the Udasi scholar, and why not?

Does it really de-legitimize the bani if sanatan symbology is there? Does it give any ammunition to critics of the bani such as radical Tat Khalsa ideologues such as Kala Afghana and Inder Ghagga if it does? IS Sikhi less distince as a Panth if it does? See this IS THE HEART OF THE CONTROVERSY. But the real question, the true question, apart from the vested interests is:

What does the bani actually say? What does it say in the Braj Bhasa and do we even know any more if out of 32 birs there were discrepancies? What does the Punjabi translation change if anything? And do the SGPC translations match with the Udasi Govind Sadhan translations? That IS an honest question. Also curious to know why it took a hundred years to develop a Punjabi translation of the bani of Tenth Master.

M.A. McAuliffe, the British Deputy Commissioner of Punjab, was the first scholar to raise questions about the Dasam Granth. He states:» "It seems, at any rate politic to place before the Sikh soldiery their Guru's prophecies in favor of the English and the texts of their sacred writings which foster their loyalty." He along with some Sikh scholars, help create the Tat Khalsa movement . This included Giani Gian Singh who expressed in his book the Panth Prakash published in 1880 AD that the style expression in some of the works doesn't match that of the Guru. Sarup Das Bhalla also expressed similar views in his book Mahima Prakash. From 1895 to 1897, different scholars and theologians assembled at the Akal Takht, Amritsar, to study the 32 printed Dasam Granths and prepare the authoritative version. They met at the Akal Takhat at Amritsar, and held formal discussions in a series of meetings between 13 June 1895 and 16 February 1896. A preliminary report entitled Report Sodhak (revision) Committee Dasam Patshah de Granth Sahib Di was sent to Sikh scholars and institutions, inviting their opinion. A second document, Report Dasam Granth di Sudhai Di was brought out on 11 February 1898. Basing its conclusions on a study of the old handwritten copies of the Dasam Granth preserved at Sri Takht Sahib at Patna and in other Sikh gurudwaras, this report affirmed that the Holy Volume was compiled at Anandpur Sahib in 1698 . Further re-examinations and reviews took place in 1931, under the aegis of the Darbar Sahib Committee of the Shiromani Gurdwara Prabhandak Committee they too vindicated the earlier conclusion (agreeing that it was indeed the work of the Guru) and its findings have since been published...On 20 February, 2000, at Gobind Sadan, Virsa Singh released the first complete Punjabi translation of the writings of Guru Gobind Singh, plus other scholarly works about the life and teachings of Guru Gobind Singh. "Jaap Sahib" "Tawprasad Sawayeya" and "Kabiobach Bainty Chawpaye" are compulsory for reciting in nitnem of a Khalsa (baptised Sikh) every morning. These writings are also recited during Sikh baptism. http://dasam_granth....yexplained.com/

At the heart of the controversy is the radical Tat Khalsa Singh Sabha proposition that the sanatan symbology is a contradiction to "Nanakian philosophy" which is what they term "Gurmat." It isn't literal bani of Guru Granth Sahib, but their interpretation of what Guru Sahib's philosophy is. Gurmat to the Singh Sabhas is that which must reject sanatan symbology. But this isn't really "Gurmat," It's Singh Sabha Mat which has no independant existence of it's own and exists solely to negate sanatan heritage. It is truly paranoid in it's denunciation of anything from Sikh history which has sanatan associations. But when you wipe out all the sanatan literature, what are you left with which is a historical record of Sikhs? Nothing much except some comments by Mughal historians. And that blank slate is the false history on which Singh Sabha ideology is written in denial of the obvious heritage.

"What Jakobsh considers "Sikh history" is literature like janam-sakhis, Bansavlinama, Gurbilas Patshahi 6, Gurbilas Daswin Patshahi, Rahitnamas and Dasam Granth! This plethora of spurious literature was written by: schismatic groups, detractors and other opponents of Nanakian philosophy like the ascetic orders of Udasis and Nirmalas. There may have been some works by Sikhs that were interpolated later on! Why would any scholar undermine her/his own research by using this spurious information?" A Critical Analysis: Baldev Singh

Then the accusation becomes, well the sanatan heritage is there BUT, the schismatics, the brahminvaadis, the corrupted Mahants took advantage of the absence of the brave Tat Khalsas fighting in jungles and put it there behind their backs...when they weren't looking. And then broad claims that the Mahants were working with British interests and that the British were responsible for all the sanatan symbology in purataan Sikh history. But an honest look at the evidence reveals a different picture. It was the British and their toadies, the sepoys who were suppressing the Indian Nationalist movement. And it was the British trying to weaken this growing nationalist movement by driving a wedge between Indian communities on the basis of caste and religion so that fighting each other and end up supporting British interests. It was the BRITISH sponsored Tat Khalsa movement which overthrew the Sanatan Singh Sabha and undermined entire sanatan heritage which existed during the time of the sanatan Sikh Raj under Maharaja Ranjit Singh. And it was this political movement of Singh Sabhias which marginalized the traditional sanatan sampradayas such as Nirmalay, Namdharay, Udasay and Nihangs. All of whom history records as being in violent opposition to the British.

Can anyone tell me the reason why Shri Sarbloh Granth was kept gupt?

Macauliffe gives three reasons for the translations from Hindu mythology and the hindu epics:

• To dispel cowardice and incite to bravery by filling the minds of his followers with heroic examples.
• To show what a brave woman (the goddess Chandi) could achieve in battle so as to spur brave men on to surpass her achievments.
• To have his Sikhs see the inferiority of the Hindu sacred writings and so appreciate those of their own Gurus more. Dasam Granth

It's more than abundantly clear what interest the British had in dividing the Sikhs from any support for "mutinous" Nationalist unity movements together with Hindu majority. But it's shocking that modern Khalsa Panth still relies on the British Chrisitian viewpoint to interpret "inferiorly and with disgust" the traditional Sanatan symbology. And it is more than critical that the modern Panth should analyze in what ways the Singh Sabha reform movement has deliberately distorted this sanatan Sikh heritage for the sole purpose of over-emphasizing a separate identity. But any editing we analyze from the Singh Sabha scholars is SIKH and not British intervention. The critical question is what exactly was done or changed and why. If this is in fact bani of the Tenth Master, and changes have been made then we are analyzing a crisis in the Panth. A crisis which would change the face of the religion. And a crisis which the highest levels of Sikh authority have suppressed.

So, is this a nonsense issue? Or have there been changes? I'm not fluent enough in Gurmukhi to analyze the differences. Why don't the respected veers who are fluent analyze and compare if this one tuuk from p. 733 is different in the SPGC version from the Govind Sadhan version and kindly post it here to resolve any doubts:

ਮੈ ਨ ਗਨੇਸ਼ਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਮਨਾਊਂ ॥ ਕਿਸ਼ਨ ਬਿਸ਼ਨ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨਹ ਧਿਆਊਂ ॥ਕਾਨ ਸੁਨੇ ਪਹਿਚਾਨ ਨ ਤਿਨ ਸੋਂ ॥ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੀ ਮੋਰੀ ਪਗ ਇਨ ਸੋਂ ॥੪੩੪॥

मै न गनेशहि प्रिथम मनाऊं ॥ किशन बिशन कबहूं नह धिआऊं ॥कान सुने पहिचान न तिन सों ॥ लिव लागी मोरी पग इन सों ॥४३४॥

I do not adore Ganesha in the beginning and also do not mediatate on Krishna and Vishnu; I have only heard about them with my ears and I do not recognize them; my consciousness is absorbed at the feet of the Supreme Kal (the Immanent Brahman).434.

ਮਹਾਕਾਲ ਰਖਵਾਰ ਹਮਾਰੋ ॥ ਮਹਾ ਲੋਹ ਮੈਂ ਕਿੰਕਰ ਥਾਰੋ ॥ ਅਪਨਾ ਜਾਨ ਕਰੋ ਰਖਵਾਰ ॥ ਬਾਹਿ ਗਹੇ ਕੀ ਲਾਜ ਬਿਚਾਰ ॥੪੩੫॥

महाकाल रखवार हमारो ॥ महा लोह मैं किंकर थारो ॥ अपना जान करो रखवार ॥ बाहि गहे की लाज बिचार ॥४३५॥

The Supreme Kal (God) is my Protector and O Steel-Purusha Lort ! I am Thy slave; Protect me, considering me as Thy own and do me the honour of catching my arm.435.

~Shri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji p. 733

How does it read in the Govind Sadhan translation please? Anyone?

As to veerji's earlier question, yes Bishan refers to Vishnu and Baisano refers to Vaishnav. Krishan-Bishan refers to the unity of the All-pervading Maha Vishnu with Krishan avatar which is a Vaishnava perspective. Whereas references to KAL and to the All-STEEL reflect more of a Shakta one which is keeping in context with other granths written of Sikh history such as Suraj Prakash and Panth Prakash taking about pimacy of Devi to the Panth and explains loose sanatan ends such as jhatka and shastar tilak in goats blood done in Hazoori Sahib, and keeping sarbloh bibek which actually are ancient Shakta practices originating with Rajput Khsttriya worship of Devi as Battle God.

It comes down to interpretation of who is KAL. It can't be that the pauri is discussing AKAAL PURAKH as unborn when it is calling the same as PURUSHA LORD, meaning the one Divine who takes form, form of sword, form of steel/iron/sarbloh.

Edited February 12, 2010 by HarjasKaur

[bhooliya]

I read one article long time back on Kalki Avatar. Please see attached article. It explains Kalki Avtara very well.

Kalki_Avataar.zip

Edited February 12, 2010 by bhooliya

[bhooliya]

Thanks! For the reply. I believe it's clear that Guruji mentioning "Vishnu" as Bishen here. I have seen posts on other forums where they have shown this line as derogatory. Actually, Guruji is not disrespecting but simply reminding of almighty's worship.

Edited February 12, 2010 by bhooliya

[Kaljug]

Krishan Bishen refer to Krishna and Vishnu. As to the identity of Kal, it's pretty clear tha the reference is to Akal Purakh and not any devata or devi.

To anyone who was wondering, the Gobind Sadan Dasam Granth pothia have exactly the same tuk and exactly the same translation as given above. See page 402 of the 2648 pdf of all the pothia or angs 148-149 of their version of Krishan Avatar.

As to the hindu mat being propagated above by the poster who claims that Kal is a reference to kali:

:-D

K.

Edited February 12, 2010 by Kaljug

[singh2]

kal of dasam Granth is akal and not any devi or devta.

ਕਾਲ ਹੀ ਪਾਇ ਭਯੋ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਸੁ ਜਾਗਤ ਯਾ ਜਗ ਜਾ ਕੀ ਕਲਾ ਹੈ ॥

काल ही पाइ भयो भगवान सु जागत या जग जा की कला है ॥

At the instance of KAL, Vishnu appeared, whose power is manifested through the world.

ਕਾਲ ਹੀ ਪਾਇ ਭਯੋ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਸਿਵ ਕਾਲ ਹੀ ਪਾਇ ਭਯੋ ਜੁਗੀਆ ਹੈ ॥

काल ही पाइ भयो ब्रहमा सिव काल ही पाइ भयो जुगीआ है ॥

At the instance of KAL, Brahma appeared and also at the instance of KAL the Yogi Shiva appeared.

ਕਾਲ ਹੀ ਪਾਇ ਸੁਰਾਸੁਰ ਗੰਧ੍ਰਬ ਜੱਛ ਭੁਜੰਗ ਦਿਸਾ ਬਿਦਿਸਾ ਹੈ ॥

काल ही पाइ सुरासुर गंध्रब ज्छ भुजंग दिसा बिदिसा है ॥

At the instance of KAL, the gods, demons, Gandharvas, Yakshas, Bhujang, directions and indications have appeared.

ਔਰ ਸੁਕਾਲ ਸਭੈ ਬਸ ਕਾਲ ਕੇ ਏਕ ਹੀ ਕਾਲ ਅਕਾਲ ਸਦਾ ਹੈ ॥੮੪॥

और सुकाल सभै बस काल के एक ही काल अकाल सदा है ॥८४॥

All the other prevalent object are within KAL, only One supreme KAL is ever Timeless and eternal.84.

Bachitra natak