Negative Stereotypes Of Sikhs In Media

[dalsingh101]

Look at this comic, stereotypical portrayal of a Scottish man.

What I find amazing is how the Scots are confident enough about themselves with this. What do you make of it in context of how we are frequently portrayed in film?

I know one big difference here is that the producers of this show seem to be Scots themselves whilst those people who make us look like clowns are outsiders.

Would it help to create our own comic character(s) that dealt with our own issues using black comedy? Somehow I doubt I people have the wit and humour for such a thing?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kHWDraHADA&feature=related

Edited May 8, 2011 by dalsingh101

[kdsingh80]

I know one big difference here is that the producers of this show seem to be Scots themselves whilst those people who make us look like clowns are outsiders.

Are Punjabi Film makers outsiders? they do 5 times more damage than bollywood films as the audience Punjabi Films and albums are sikhs yet we prefer to blame outsiders

[dalsingh101]

Are Punjabi Film makers outsiders? they do 5 times more damage than bollywood films as the audience Punjabi Films and albums are sikhs yet we prefer to blame outsiders

What are Punjabi films today anyway? They just appear to be films about clean shaven Jatt men with characteristics that are (I imagine) reflective of ideal models of behaviour in the target audience community? Probably also reflect the ongoing concerns of the target audience too.

How do you think they damage Sikhs (other than the obvious constant caste reinforcement)?

Edited May 8, 2011 by dalsingh101

[kdsingh80]

What are Punjabi films today anyway? They just appear to be films about clean shaven Jatt men with characteristics that are (I imagine) reflective of ideal models of behaviour in the target audience community? Probably also reflect the ongoing concerns of the target audience too.

How do you think they damage Sikhs (other than the obvious constant caste reinforcement)?

Yeah but the fathers,elder brother of these jatt sikh men are turbaned and bearded,also not to forget gUrpreet ghughi type character also wear turban and sport beard.So What impact a sikh man will get that either a Turbaned Sikh is comedian or just an elder and also not not forget many times villians are turbaned sikh sometimes with long beards.If that is the image of Sikh men is presented by Punjabi films then i am not surprised that 90% of youths prefer to become clean shaven in Punjab.

[dalsingh101]

If that is the image of Sikh men is presented by Punjabi films then i am not surprised that 90% of youths prefer to become clean shaven in Punjab.

Let's be real. The causal factors behind what you're referring to here are multifaceted and complex. It's not a one or two issues that cause this but multiple ones, that span over a wide time frame.

[kdsingh80]

Let's be real. The causal factors behind what you're referring to here are multifaceted and complex. It's not a one or two issues that cause this but multiple ones, that span over a wide time frame.

Agree with it But as a Sikh I am tired of seeing Turbaned sikhs as ,comedian ,elder ,sidekicks etc Why can't Films especially Punjabi one can show turbaned sikh in lead role .A lot of time discussions are there on Sikh sites about sikh women not liking sardar.Don't you think Films plays an important role in it.When Hardly any woman in world see a Sikh in romantic role then it is obvious that many woman may start thinking like that sardar cannot be romantic.

Punjabi films may not be fully responsible but they have lot to answer why they don't give lead role to sardars

[dalsingh101]

Agree with it But as a Sikh I am tired of seeing Turbaned sikhs as ,comedian ,elder ,sidekicks etc Why can't Films especially Punjabi one can show turbaned sikh in lead role .A lot of time discussions are there on Sikh sites about sikh women not liking sardar.Don't you think Films plays an important role in it.When Hardly any woman in world see a Sikh in romantic role then it is obvious that many woman may start thinking like that sardar cannot be romantic.

Punjabi films may not be fully responsible but they have lot to answer why they don't give lead role to sardars

I tell you what, I've seen plenty of women swooning over good looking sardars, so I don't think its that.

[kdsingh80]

I tell you what, I've seen plenty of women swooning over good looking sardars, so I don't think its that.

May be you have seen some when but the fact is this issue keeps on coming.Infact even in matrimonial site some specifically quote about this demand .

The point I am making is if we want more youths to wear turban then they certainly want to see their kind of people in films in roles of Good B/fs,husbands

sons ,fathers which they don't.Giving only some specific kind of roles will only have negative impact on men and women.

As Sikh consider Punjabi their own language why can't Punjabi films do that?Just look at south India.their heros are dark skinned with moustache .Thes type of men are not liked in North India.But still they stuck to their own men for the role of hero on the other hand Punjabi film heroes copy the style of bollywood heroes.This clearly shows that Sikhs even don't like the own image of sardar

[dalsingh101]

May be you have seen some when but the fact is this issue keeps on coming.Infact even in matrimonial site some specifically quote about this demand .

Maybe a part of this is also related to how so many Sikh boys grow up to be quite nerdy these days? All I know is, when a guy is confident, good looking and looks like he is affluent, turban or not, he will get girls.

Something not spoken of often is that maybe a lot of Sikh guys don't get socialised with females very well and thus don't know how to act around them. I don't know what it is like now, but a generation ago, Sikh parents would go an extra mile to keep males and females apart. In the modern context (whether we approve of it or not), a lot relationships seem to stem from initial social interactions. If Sikhs guys have been prevented from learning about this from a young age...well the consequences are obvious in university campuses in England where Sikh girls get attention from everyone (but apnay). We have that mentality that this stuff is wrong, other quoms don't.

The point I am making is if we want more youths to wear turban then they certainly want to see their kind of people in films in roles of Good B/fs,husbands, sons ,fathers which they don't.Giving only some specific kind of roles will only have negative impact on men and women.

What can we say. We are so far behind in so many fields it is unbelievable. Panjabi films are really casteist vehicles with nothing intelligent or witty to say. Other communities seem to be able to create nonEnglish films that get respected like the Chinese and Japs, we can't. Visually, what we produce sucks. See a Panjabi film with western eyes, and you'll agree. Compare it to some lavish, stylish Chinese/Japanese production. So even if we put a sardar in a lead role, the film would probably be so shit by the time we made it, it would just further compound the problem it tried to resolve.

Plus when Sikh men do try and pull, the conservatives object to it being 'kaami'. lol

As Sikh consider Punjabi their own language why can't Punjabi films do that? Just look at south India.their heros are dark skinned with moustache .Thes type of men are not liked in North India.But still they stuck to their own men for the role of hero on the other hand Punjabi film heroes copy the style of bollywood heroes.This clearly shows that Sikhs even don't like the own image of sardar.

I still say personal experiences and the attributes of apnay are more important than films (though these can help). If women frequently met 'sexy', great looking, stylish Sikh guys with attractive personalities, and prospects - they would be a catch and they would talk about them positively amongst themselves. But I imagine, these days they probably view sardars as conservative, no fun, bores - who are probably momma's boys? That being said, my best mate for a long time was a sardar, who used to pull birds all the time (the tart)! From all races.. Okay he was trimmed, but it does show you, that it's not impossible and individual personalities make a big difference. But one one hand, the communities conservative values stops guys 'pulling' girls, whilst on the other hand it complains that girls aren't going for the guys. Something seems askew with this, but I can't put my finger on it though?

But going back to my OP. Maybe we need our own Sikh 'clown' character, but one that has something interesting to say about us and society in an intelligent, witty and humourous way. Like Rab C Nesbit.

I just realised, Sikhs are really shite at writing things like that. And as for acting.........

Edited May 9, 2011 by dalsingh101

[kdsingh80]

I still say personal experiences and the attributes of apnay are more important than films (though these can help). If women frequently met 'sexy', great looking, stylish Sikh guys with attractive personalities, and prospects - they would be a catch and they would talk about them positively amongst themselves. But I imagine, these days they probably view sardars as conservative, no fun, bores - who are probably momma's boys? That being said, my best mate for a long time was a sardar, who used to pull birds all the time (the tart)! From all races.. Okay he was trimmed, but it does show you, that it's not impossible and individual personalities make a big difference. But one one hand, the communities conservative values stops guys 'pulling' girls, whilst on the other hand it complains that girls aren't going for the guys. Something seems askew with this, but I can't put my finger on it though?

In love marriages a lot depend on personality but what about arrange marriages.If Sikh Girls will start putting specific demand of clean shaven guys then how can even sardars show them personality.

Let me tell you a case which happened with my chachi's distant relative.She forced her parents to find a clean shaven guy sikh/hindu.As the Clean shaven sikh guys are difficult to find in cities her parents have to select a hindu boy

.Just before the marriage One relative of Boy told the parents that this Hindu guy is weird your daughters life will be ruined ,so they broke the marriage but then the boy came to them and created the whole emotional drama and the marriage was performed .Anyway what the person told was found to be true the guy was totally weird , unemployed and also a wife beater.The life of that girl became hell forcing her to leave her law education to physical beating and not even giving her proper clothes in winter.Now whatever she and her parents are going through is just because of a clean shaven face which she wanted. my chachi was also telling that if she wanted then there were truck load of educated high earning sardars were available to marry her but she ruined he aswell her parents life.

Whether you agree with me or not but Films ,TV serials do play a big role in psyche of Young people.Indian people especially women watch lot of TV serials and Films and if they always Only clean shaven guys in lead role then their mentality of sikh girls are definately going to towards them.Do you know once it

was mention in an article that the impact of film Dilawale dulahaniya le jaayenge on Punjabi women was so much that many of them starting keeping karva chauth in Punjab even if their husband don't like it.

Tell me why sikhs in India love the film Singh is king because upto this time that is the only film which has romantic songs of a sardar with most beautiful

heroine of bollywood

Films in present time are very important tool to put an impact on psyche of young sikhs .We can't dictate bollywood ,we can only protest what we don't like

but certainly our Punjabi film industry has lot to answer why are they playing negative role.

[dalsingh101]

Let me tell you a case which happened with my chachi's distant relative.She forced her parents to find a clean shaven guy sikh/hindu.As the Clean shaven sikh guys are difficult to find in cities her parents have to select a hindu boy

.Just before the marriage One relative of Boy told the parents that this Hindu guy is weird your daughters life will be ruined ,so they broke the marriage but then the boy came to them and created the whole emotional drama and the marriage was performed .Anyway what the person told was found to be true the guy was totally weird , unemployed and also a wife beater.The life of that girl became hell forcing her to leave her law education to physical beating and not even giving her proper clothes in winter.Now whatever she and her parents are going through is just because of a clean shaven face which she wanted. my chachi was also telling that if she wanted then there were truck load of educated high earning sardars were available to marry her but she ruined he aswell her parents life.

I don't know how relevant your story is. I mean, I've known plenty of sardars to slap up their missus too. That is just a luck thing, she could have gone with a keshdhari and still got slapped about. But okay, I get the point that girls are requesting clean shaven boys these days.

Whether you agree with me or not but Films ,TV serials do play a big role in psyche of Young people.Indian people especially women watch lot of TV serials and Films and if they always Only clean shaven guys in lead role then their mentality of sikh girls are definately going to towards them.Do you know once it was mention in an article that the impact of film Dilawale dulahaniya le jaayenge on Punjabi women was so much that many of them starting keeping karva chauth in Punjab even if their husband don't like it.

What is karva chauth? Most women are dense like that anyway. Once at uni (where normally they will not say a single word against women), I remember a social psychology class where the lecturer admitted that studies proved women were infinitely more likely to be influence by media and certain types of social pressure than blokes. And this was a women saying it.

Tell me why sikhs in India love the film Singh is king because upto this time that is the only film which has romantic songs of a sardar with most beautiful heroine of bollywood

Indian Sikhs seem to like any old shit Bollywood makes. They'd even watch a film with a derogatory portrayal of an apna no problem. To me any apna who regularly watches Bolly films has a screw loose.

Films in present time are very important tool to put an impact on psyche of young sikhs .We can't dictate bollywood ,we can only protest what we don't like but certainly our Punjabi film industry has lot to answer why are they playing negative role.

Okay, You've sold the culpability of Punjabi films in all this to me, but these do just seem to be 'modern Jatt' films. Plus I have to say, I do see strange people very similar to those sardar clowns in our actual community, like guys with lime green turbans with matching shirts.......wtf!! No sense of colour, style or reserve. Plus something has happened to the way Sikhs tie paghs these days, they don't look as good as like my fathers generation's did, who wore them in varying styles. Now every last person's pagh looks identical to this one! (apart from gol dastar wearers)

Even worse is when grown men or boys well into their teens are still rocking a patka - wth! When I was teaching only one boy used to wear a dastaar, the rest had patkas. All of them all the time. Then you have brothers who wear a patka and put the joora on the front?? This makes them look like they are wearing one of them coal miners helmets with the fog light on the front.

When I went to Paunta Sahib, they showed me a special place where Guru Gobind Singh ji used to have competitions to see who could tie the best dastaar. Truth is that certain brothers don't seem to make much effort in this department. That can't help with the girls. Some better media portrayals may help to an extent, but still, sardars could do a lot more at ground level too?

[Mithar]

Let me tell you a case which happened with my chachi's distant relative.She forced her parents to find a clean shaven guy sikh/hindu.As the Clean shaven sikh guys are difficult to find in cities her parents have to select a hindu boy

.Just before the marriage One relative of Boy told the parents that this Hindu guy is weird your daughters life will be ruined ,so they broke the marriage but then the boy came to them and created the whole emotional drama and the marriage was performed .Anyway what the person told was found to be true the guy was totally weird , unemployed and also a wife beater.The life of that girl became hell forcing her to leave her law education to physical beating and not even giving her proper clothes in winter.Now whatever she and her parents are going through is just because of a clean shaven face which she wanted. my chachi was also telling that if she wanted then there were truck load of educated high earning sardars were available to marry her but she ruined he aswell her parents life.

This reminds me of this story. A few years ago, my family knew this one educated Kesadhari NRI boy. My mother wanted one of her relative's girl to marry him from India since the boy was a very good boy. My mother told the parents of the girl in India about the boy and the parents liked the proposal. Then when parents asked the girl, she refused saying she will only marry a clean shaven NRI boy. The proposal was dropped. So the rejected Kesadhari boy did go to India and married another girl.

Our relative's girl also found a Rishtaa with a clean shaven NRI boy who drives a truck with no education background. When the girl came to Canada she began to have all these restriction imposed on her. All of a sudden she was not allowed to communicate with her relatives in Canada or even her parents in India. While the girl who married to educated Kesadhari NRI boy is living the good happy life with no restrictions.

I'm not saying that clean shaven are bad. Plenty are good, they are no different from kesadhari boys, it is just Sikh girls who don't see it that way. But he moral of the story is that Sikh girls are one of the dumbest species out there. No offense to Sikh girl members of this forum. I have seen Kesadhari boys having no problem attracting the attention of Hindu and Muslim women, but Sikh girls seem to avoid kesadhari boys like they are not even Sikhs themselves. Sikh girls suffer from the worst inferiority complex ever!

I would say that since child hood, most of my friends have eventually cut their hair. The reason they give is that they are cutting it because Sikh girls like Sikh guys who are monaas. It is one thing to have Sikh religion decline because of outsiders, but this declining trend of Kesadhari boy is mainly because of Sikh girls. That is mainly why Sikh boys of marriageable age are mostly all monaas. Sikh girls have done the most disservice to Sikh faith in my opinion.

Edited May 9, 2011 by Mithar

[kdsingh80]

I don't know how relevant your story is. I mean, I've known plenty of sardars to slap up their missus too. That is just a luck thing, she could have gone with a keshdhari and still got slapped about. But okay, I get the point that girls are requesting clean shaven boys these days.

Dalsingh

My chachi's family is like a pack of wolves you dare to touch any of their girl and they will attack the house even if the girl is falsly accusing the family.I have all the drama's when my chachi used to call them .It is not like they use voilence but round the table confrence .I must say if any sardar marry in their family never even dare to mistreat their women that is the power of family.Now in the above case No one is coming to her help and why should they .Had she married a keshdhari sardar their could have been roundtable confrences and even arm twisting

What is karva chauth? Most women are dense like that anyway. Once at uni (where normally they will not say a single word against women), I remember a social psychology class where the lecturer admitted that studies proved women were infinitely more likely to be influence by media and certain types of social pressure than blokes. And this was a women saying it.

My god you don't have any knowledge of karva chauth? quite strange

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karva_Chauth

Indian Sikhs seem to like any old shit Bollywood makes. They'd even watch a film with a derogatory portrayal of an apna no problem. To me any apna who regularly watches Bolly films has a screw loose.

Haha I regularly watch films .we are living in India .Bollywood is one of the few entertainment available to us ,so nothing wrong in watching it.90% + films don't have any sardars so why to hate them.Yes there are few films in which Sikhs are portrayed in derogatory manner but they are on finger tips

[HSD1]

Anybody seen Fists of Fury?

[Guest zulu]

my best mate for a long time was a sardar, who used to pull birds all the time (the tart)! From all races.. Okay he was trimmed

I totally agree, Singhs with dhari or trimmed can get girls, there are PLENTLY of girls who love singhs be it goria apnia or even spanish

My best mate who wears a pugh but does trim pulls every night, all the girls love him because hes very confident, good personality and didnt think I would say this but he is good looking.

Girls even love me, I kid I kid lol.

Plus something has happened to the way Sikhs tie paghs these days, they don't look as good as like my fathers generation's did, who wore them in varying styles. Now every last person's pagh looks identical to this one! (apart from gol dastar wearers)

Well, I must say the singhs who tie a 2/3 laar pugh just look stupid and its too small, I tie a kenyan pugh as most of my family is from kenya and I learnt to tie it in the kenyan style, but the singhs who arent from africa and who try to copy the afrikkki pugh just fail at it! its either too small, looks horrible!

Edited May 9, 2011 by zulu

[dalsingh101]

Anybody seen Fists of Fury?

If you're talking about Bruce Lee's film? Yes many years ago.

[kdsingh80]

I have seen Kesadhari boys having no problem attracting the attention of Hindu and Muslim women, but Sikh girls seem to avoid kesadhari boys like they are not even Sikhs themselves. Sikh girls suffer from the worst inferiority complex ever!

I would say that since child hood, most of my friends have eventually cut their hair. The reason they give is that they are cutting it because Sikh girls like Sikh guys who are monaas. It is one thing to have Sikh religion decline because of outsiders, but this declining trend of Kesadhari boy is mainly because of Sikh girls. That is mainly why Sikh boys of marriageable age are mostly all monaas. Sikh girls have done the most disservice to Sikh faith in my opinion.

There is problem from the part of sikh community too.Sikhs also too much believe in gender similarity .Unfortunately women all over the world do weird things like marrying muslims or marrying aged men.Sikhs just believe that how men think women too think in the same way but unfortunately that is not true.

This is why I am saying that Films are very important .If films will start showing Turbaned sikhs in romantic way many Sikh girls too may change their perception.

There was even an article published in newspaper when Film Rocket singh was released many women started liking bearded men infact they specifically mentioned about a sikh girl who said that she always prefered clean shaven men

but after watching film she changed her perception and started liking bearded men too.

I would say that since child hood, most of my friends have eventually cut their hair. The reason they give is that they are cutting it because Sikh girls like Sikh guys who are monaas.

But why are they cutting hair only for Sikh Girls.Even a mona should try avoid marrying that type of sikh girl as much he can.If other religion Girls are available then just marry them why to run after own rotten stock

Edited May 9, 2011 by kdsingh80

[dalsingh101]

Thing is, if you are saying our own stock is rotten, then you have to be honest enough to admit a large part of the reason for this would be the way we are raising them.

Edited May 9, 2011 by dalsingh101

[kdsingh80]

Thing is, if you are saying our own stock is rotten, then you have to be honest enough to admit a large part of the reason for this would be the way we are raising them.

What do you mean by that? Do you want to say they are not getting equal treatment ,parents not giving them good education,or parents giving them too much freedom

Anyway I have already written it in my post that many women don't think in that way as men do .so very few things are going to work in practical world

[HSD1]

If you're talking about Bruce Lee's film? Yes many years ago.

Does anyone remember the Singh who tries to stop Bruce Lee going into the park? Had a quick look on Youtube and cant find a clip.

[dalsingh101]

Does anyone remember the Singh who tries to stop Bruce Lee going into the park? Had a quick look on Youtube and cant find a clip.

Yeah I remember him, a stocky oriental fellow who was 'blackened up' lol!

Colonial guard dog I tell you!

[HSD1]

Colonial guard dog I tell you!

That's what the director and Bruce Lee were trying to imply.

[dalsingh101]

That's what the director and Bruce Lee were trying to imply.

I remember in the film he craps his knickerh at Brucie and starts blowing his whistle to get 'back up'.

There is no need to imply by the way, plenty of our people's were Anglo's 'smelly lackeys' (That's cockney rhyming slang by the way - try and work out for what!)

I've actually been struggling to read Ommisi's book of Indian soldier's letters because the sycophancy is so unadulterated from our lot, it's embarrassing. Cringe worthy.....

Sikhs played a conspicuous role in China, especially during the Opium wars. No wonder they remember us like that. If India and China ever went to war, they'd probably start pumping propaganda about the perceived insults and injustices they received at the hands of the pendu 'storm troopers'. Funny thing is that if you go to any West London Singh Sabha Gurdwara they'd probably be remembering these things as some sort of glory days. lol

Edited May 9, 2011 by dalsingh101

[kdsingh80]

This thread should be renamed as from scotland to China .ITs quite strange how discussion moves.

[dalsingh101]

This thread should be renamed as from scotland to China .ITs quite strange how discussion moves.

There is an actual unifying thread in all this. The portrayal of Sikhs in the media.

I'm glad HSD bought that old school reference up. Brought back memories. Brue Lee rocks!

And you know what, no matter how good media might be able to make us look theoretically, if the portrayed image is generally unreflective of how people perceive sardars when they meet them in the flesh, people will soon see through the bullshit.

Along with media perhaps we need to reflect on and foster positive changes in Sikh man's thinking and behaviour?