Did Baba Deep Singh Ji Do Havan?

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

I don't believe for one second that sri guru gobind singh ji did havan at Naina Devi, there was no need for guru avtari pursh to do havan to invoke shakti etc, they were highest sargun avtar saroop of akaal purkh even for hari avtar saroop of sri akaal purkh such as ram chandar ji or sri krishan ji most likely didn't do any havan themselves to invoke naina devi, shakti or anything, lets just say even if they did, they probably did so to maintain yug dharam maryada in their respective yugas..fast fwd to kalyug or current yug yudh dharam maryada- Naam abhyas, sri dasam granth yudh compositions such as chandi di var, chandi charitar, shastar naam mala etc banis along with Kshatriya tradition like chatka- shastar puja trumps havan, hom at naina devi/kali devi etc. Sikh shouldn't wrap their head around too many rituals but rather concentrate on tat gyan teachings of gurbani and sri dasam granth sahib yudh banis.

Listen to Gyani Inderjjet Singh Ji's katha. He extensively mentions devi did not appear but aad-shakti. Some aspects in history are metaphorical others are not. Baba Jagjeet Singh Ji Harkhowal wale also concurs though he does not explicitly adopt Gyani Ji's mode of thought. He mentions add-shakti though in the form of a sword manifesting.

[jaikaara]

I don't believe for one second that sri guru gobind singh ji did havan at Naina Devi, there was no need for guru avtari pursh to do havan to invoke shakti etc, they were highest sargun avtar saroop of akaal purkh even for hari avtar saroop of sri akaal purkh such as ram chandar ji or sri krishan ji most likely didn't do any havan themselves to invoke naina devi, shakti or anything, lets just say even if they did, they probably did so to maintain yug dharam maryada in their respective yugas..fast fwd to kalyug or current yug yudh dharam maryada- Naam abhyas, sri dasam granth yudh compositions such as chandi di var, chandi charitar, shastar naam mala etc banis along with Kshatriya tradition like chatka- shastar puja trumps havan, hom at naina devi/kali devi etc. Sikh shouldn't wrap their head around too many rituals but rather concentrate on tat gyan teachings of gurbani and sri dasam granth sahib yudh banis.

Very well said ..however there are different aspects to view this and different people prefer different mediums. Even though the Gurus stressed on no rituals ..is the prakash of Guru Granth sahib ji not a ritual ? however ..it is needed ..why ? because unless there is some ritual attached people will not learn to respect . A big example is the ISKON....they distribute Bhagvad Gita free at times ..asking people to read ..which is a good thing..there is no ritual attached ...what happens ? many of those freely distributed Bhagvad Gita copies are found lying near the feet of paper scrap dealers ! Similarly with Bible distribution.

People have evolved however many things will remain....the Shakti/Mother worship is in most of the religions in one way or the other. Nature worship needed emotions so they called it 'Mother' Nature ...now is nature a istree or purush ?? None !

The freedom movement of India was given a form of worship and a devi was made out of the land of Hindustan calling it 'Bharat Mata' , just like Dharti Mata ...why ? because giving it a religious and emotional angle ignited emotions and passion in many. They could not feel the same in the image of a map of a piece of land.

Sounds and visuals have effects ...the sound of the blowing of the conch...the trumpet ..the ringing of the bells ..they all have the impact ....it is like sound therapy.

On a personal sadhana level, as stated by our Gurus , also scriptures like Bhagvad Gita ...that Naam Simran is the simplest and most effective form of Saadhana..specially in this Kalyug when all the yagyas will fail.

Just sharing my 2 cents ..Bhula chuka muaaf karni ji...if anyone is hurt by my thoughts.

Siri Akaal Sahaai

[SAadmin]

Listen to Gyani Inderjjet Singh Ji's katha. He extensively mentions devi did not appear but aad-shakti. Some aspects in history are metaphorical others are not. Baba Jagjeet Singh Ji Harkhowal wale also concurs though he does not explicitly adopt Gyani Ji's mode of thought. He mentions add-shakti though in the form of a sword manifesting.

I agree with aad shakti. However, Aad shakti cannot be confined in naina devi temple or in one pictorial representation. Aad shakti, shiv shakti are all synonymous term of daiv shakti of akaal purkh have different forms- such as shiv shakat, bhaguati, shakti-shakta aspect, it goes quite deep.

What i am arguing here over importance given going to naina devi temple as a tirath after going to anand pur sahib, there is no need to go to any devi temple and perform those rituals to invoke shakti before yudh whereas khalsa is already given bhaugati and bhaugati is central theme to invoke daiv shakti...thats pretty much it..going beyond it, its wrapping your head around it, wrapping your head around any rituals and confining akaal purkh in the ritual is condemned in gurmat.

[chatanga1]

Listen to Gyani Inderjjet Singh Ji's katha. He extensively mentions devi did not appear but aad-shakti. Some aspects in history are metaphorical others are not. Baba Jagjeet Singh Ji Harkhowal wale also concurs though he does not explicitly adopt Gyani Ji's mode of thought. He mentions add-shakti though in the form of a sword manifesting.

Isnt the sword the true roop or primal roop of aad shakti, according to Chandi ki waar?

I agree with aad shakti. However, Aad shakti cannot be confined in naina devi temple or in one pictorial representation. Aad shakti, shiv shakti are all synonymous term of daiv shakti of akaal purkh have different forms- such as shiv shakat, bhaguati, shakti-shakta aspect, it goes quite deep.

What i am arguing here over importance given going to naina devi temple as a tirath after going to anand pur sahib, there is no need to go to any devi temple and perform those rituals to invoke shakti before yudh whereas khalsa is already given bhaugati and bhaugati is central theme to invoke daiv shakti...thats pretty much it..going beyond it, its wrapping your head around it, wrapping your head around any rituals and confining akaal purkh in the ritual is condemned in gurmat.

Yes i would agree with that neo bhaji. but i would like to ask can aad shakti be confined to the Sword?

[SAadmin]

but i would like to ask can aad shakti be confined to the Sword?

I don't think it can be confined to the sword only just like it cannot be only confined to shiv shakat/devi. There are many aspects of aad shakti in gurbani such as parloa, maha parloa- destruction, kaal and maha kaal, narsingh representation. I don't think its meant to be confined to only one aspect.

I consider its a never ending flow- folding and unfolding itself from shabad/nirgun to sargun- rajo, tamo, sato and from sargun- rajo, tamo(aad shakti), sato back to nirgun.

I think for that same reason, nihang raw shastar pooja was criticized by bhai vir singh ji, you cannot capture/confine flow of divinity into shastar pooja only or any rituals for that matter, its flow supposed/meant to be connected to our human consciousness and our human consciousness should be one with the flow..i m not against shastar pooja or any kind of sargun rituals- i m more concerned with devote state of mind/road blocks which are created doing those rituals for lack of understanding...students definitely need a mahapursh to clear all the doubts or talk about their state of mind..if we listen carefully to sant gurbachan singh bhindranwale of 21st asthapadi of sukhmani sahib, its beautiful its 45 minutes long..he goes through asthapadi each pauri , i consider its a guidance for people who idolize things and create road blocks for themselves, make no mistake sargun and nirgun are one, its never ending flow of advait ikongkar.

[SAadmin]

Found this amazing art below...interpretation of death and life, interpreted as ignorance(darkness), bhramgyan(light), also could be interpreted as shiv shakti , aad shakti and also could be interpreted as illustration of nirgun and sargun in visible form..look beyond shiv- put dumalla on the picture for all i care, put khanda on the hand.....many hidden messages behind the pictorial representation below, vibrations at the bottom appear sound/dhun vibrations like- ongkar dhunni as from ongkar shabad dhuni everything came..!!

Another one i forgot - kaal and akaal together..!!!!!!!!

[BhagatSingh]

Sikh shouldn't wrap their head around too many rituals but rather concentrate on tat gyan teachings of gurbani and sri dasam granth sahib yudh banis.

Think of ritual as a space rather than an act like a computer table, or a kitchen. Once you start a ritual you create a space that is separate from other activities of your life. This allows you to focus on what you do in that space rather than be distracted by entangled spaces or so-called multitasking.

I was reading Manu Smriti one day, I have only read a little bit but in the part I was reading, Rishi Manu says,

51. Having collected as much food as is required (from several

persons), and having announced it without guile to his teacher, let him

eat, turning his face towards the east, and having purified himself by

sipping water.

52. (His meal will procure) long life, if he eats facing the east [north?];

fame, if he turns to the south; prosperity, if he turns to the west;

truthfulness, if he faces the east.

53. Let a twice-born man always eat his food with concentrated mind,

after performing an ablution; and after he has eaten, let him duly

cleanse himself with water and sprinkle the cavities (of his head).

54. Let him always worship his food, and eat it without contempt;

when he sees it, let him rejoice, show a pleased face, and pray that he

may always obtain it.

55. Food, that is always worshipped, gives strength and manly vigour; but eaten irreverently, it destroys them both.

You start by performing a serious of actions and you end by performing another series of actions, this creates a space in between where you do nothing but eat. Probably the best way anyone can eat. Absolutely brilliant.

Anyways, Brahmgyanis don't have any issues with rituals. They do what is instructed to them by Sri Hari. If that means doing havan, then so be it. So you cannot answer the Op's question with "Brahmgyanis are too good for rituals", they maybe but they might still do them as you admit yourself (you provided one reason, to uphold dharmic values). Op's question requires that we look for any evidence that is available of such an event. How do we get this evidence is the question.

Another one i forgot - kaal and akaal together..!!!!!!!!

I believe it's called Ardhnarishwar, the half-woman lord. It's Shiv and Shakti together. Not sure you can separate them into kaal and akaal since Shiv ji is both kaal and akaal in Shaivism, he is Mahakaal.

Edited May 16, 2013 by BhagatSingh

[Lazy Sewadar]

I asked regarding havan or hom to sant jagjit singh ji harkhowal- If baba deep singh ji did hom or havan? Thats what baba ji responded back. It perfectably make sense. It does not make sense for bhramgyani/atamgyani to do hom or havan..he is already above all these sargun rituals..!!

A bit of a delay in responding... but i thought this was an interesting post; because if true it stands directly opposed to what Sant ji wrote in his book, The Society of Saints, where at p.16 he wrote

After some days he passed away. Baba Jawala Singh ji held a “Yag”, holy fire, in his remembrance. He called people from fifty villages by announcing the ceremony with the aid of a drum.

As far as i know Sant ji considers his own teacher (i.e. the above-mentioned "Baba Jawala Singh") to be a puran BrahmGyani. I wonder why he would be undermining his own teacher in private?

[Guest]

A bit of a delay in responding... but i thought this was an interesting post; because if true it stands directly opposed to what Sant ji wrote in his book, The Society of Saints, where at p.16 he wrote

As far as i know Sant ji considers his own teacher (i.e. the above-mentioned "Baba Jawala Singh") to be a puran BrahmGyani. I wonder why he would be undermining his own teacher in private?

Havan sargun ritual with full samrgi

Ultimate form of Havan- nirgun - hvan of mind is biggest havan where you put your thoughts as samagri in havan and with fire of bhramgyan burned them into ashes.

As far as i m concerned baba deep singh ji probably might have done both. Sant jagjit singh ji harkhowale are not against sargun havan ritual, nor they try to downplay it, they mentioned the above more from gyan perspective than historical perspective.

[Lazy Sewadar]

Aha!

I obviously mistakenly took your previous comment to mean that Sant ji does not believe a BrahmGyani should perform external rituals, when in fact what he conveyed to you was that external rituals are fine so long as they are accompanied by an internal sincerity and corresponding internal shift?

Accordingly Baba Deep Singh may have performed both an external/physical havan whilst simultaneously performing an internal havan of the mind?

That's perfectly in line with Santji's narration of the actions of his Murshid.

[Guest]

I don't think baba deep singh ji did physical havan for his personal own spiritual development but rather might have done havan/agyna with shabad jaap (ritual to invoke shakti) for dharam fateh yudh morcha /prior to going to yudh, he probably have done agyna along with 125,000 jaap of gobinde mukhande udare apare.

According to my research in gurmat , Sargun ritual of havan/hom/agna along with jaap of gurbani for one's spiritual development holds probably same significance as one doing jaap with mala, having pitcher of water, incense, cocunut, jot beside you while you are doing jaap etc..meaning these are not mandatory rituals should be looked as aids for beginners to set the spiritual mood right of a seeker (for lack of better word) as it attract positive energies (be it devi devta or shahid singhs).

[GtLoc]

Nothing wrong with paath around fire it's a warrior thing.

Also, if Sikhs have been saying for centuries that he did are we neo sikhs now researching but ultimately doubting it.

Combining panth and quom is ultimately the worst christian reform that leads to this stuff.

[Sukhdev Singh]

On 3/31/2013 at 1:11 PM, BhagatSingh said:

Ok I see. Well as far as I know, in a havan, the materials are offered to God with the fire as the transport. They are carried and not "burnt to ashes" like the phenomenon of undesired mental activity slowly dissolving in simran. When the materials are placed in the fire, it is said that Agni Dev Himself takes them to whichever God they are intended for.

 

Does gurbani differentiate between sargun and nirgun rituals?

Wouldn't this be the opposite of Guru Nanak Dev Ji opposing Brahaman's offering water to the Sun?

[Singh2022]

On 7/15/2022 at 11:30 PM, Sukhdev Singh said:

Wouldn't this be the opposite of Guru Nanak Dev Ji opposing Brahaman's offering water to the Sun?

Well said Bhai Sahib