BhagatSingh Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 what is "murti" (idol) in your opinion? is it just made of stone or metal? Dude that wasn't the point. That's a separate discussion. Let's start a new thread for that discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnPathToSikhi Posted October 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 what is "murti" (idol) in your opinion? is it just made of stone or metal? Yes, murtis are typically made of stone, wood or metal, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnPathToSikhi Posted October 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 you are wrong sir. idol Line breaks: idol Pronunciation: /ˈʌɪd(ə)l / noun 1 An image or representation of a god used as an object of worship. Cambridge dictionary: a picture or object that people pray to as part of their religion: No. Looks like you were looking for definition of murti as it pertains to God in a physical form. Which would still be of some material representation. If you are interested in a discussion specific to "God", as BhagatSingh has suggested, start a new thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatpalM Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 (edited) Hmm.. Edited October 18, 2014 by SatpalM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhagatSingh Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 "I have never read any of his books" Too quick judgement for someone who hasn't read the books. Which pretty much sums up this thread and the news article. I doubt the author bothered to check his sources and neither did the posters. Move along now, time to quickly judge the next thing, and the next thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amandeep Hindustani Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) It is not education they need to eradicate poverty, it is morality they are in need of. Education in the hands of right wing hindutva idiots is a very dangerous tool and we all know why. It will not be used to create 'educated citizenery' or even a 'trained workforce' as they would like everyone to believe. It will be used to brainwash the illiterates under the guise of being educated. The masses will be fed with hateful right wing fascist ideology and encouraged to regurgitate it out on the minorities and the marginalized. The world has already seen how they have managed to brainwash their child population with hatred towards the minorities. Hindutva does not like their religion consisting of 33 crore gods and goddesses insulted therefore it is out with any book that insults hinduism and in with Batra's books replete with right wing hindutva (hateful) ideology. An experiment sanctioned by the state to educate the dull masses. I have never read any of his books but I am positive he endeavours to depict a miserable hindu in a favorable way which fits nicely with the right wing fascist hindutva ideology. If his books assert the above mentioned lies then he is already on his way to a looney bin together with the dull and ignorant masses. Batra comes across as a typical mental case. Never heard of "Akhand Bharat" ever before, if his definition of this concept is correct then we already have future Mr Saddam Husseins in the making waging wars for lost territories and lands that once constituted the so called "Akhand Bharat" meaningless concept. So forget about celebrating birthdays with cakes and candles, it is not part of hindu culture present or ancient! I feel sorry for despondent students studying his books containing nothing but far fetched lies and fantasies. In few years time we will witness the whole nation gone crazy on prescribed psychotropic or psychotherapeutic drugs to control their madness! Your opinion is irrelevant. Hindustan will teach Hindu history. If you can teach Khalsa Raaj and the Moslems can teach Caliphate then I can teach Akhand Bharat. Edited October 13, 2014 by Amandeep Hindustani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatpalM Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) "I have never read any of his books" Too quick judgement for someone who hasn't read the books. Which pretty much sums up this thread and the news article. I doubt the author bothered to check his sources and neither did the posters. Move along now, time to quickly judge the next thing, and the next thing. How patronizing can you get? I will 'move along ' and 'judge' if and when the need to do so arises and you don't have any say in it! You are not here to tell people what to do. So blatantly rude. One has to be totally crazy to read his books anyways replete with right wing hindutva hateful fascist ideology? Are you crazy? Edited October 15, 2014 by SatpalM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhagatSingh Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 You mean his books replete with right wing hindutva hateful fascist ideology? Are you crazy? The stuff that the article talked about wasn't crazy if you put it in context and really take some time to look into it. So how or why you are coming to these judgements without reading it for yourself, I don't know. But what I do know is that this kind of behaviour is not healthy. To shut yourself off from something and condemning it without knowing anything about it, is dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatpalM Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) Oops Edited October 18, 2014 by SatpalM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdsingh80 Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 False Teachings for India's Students By THE EDITORIAL BOARD OCT. 8, 2014 Prime Minister Narendra Modi has promised India’s youth a bright future. As he is well aware, realizing that promise will depend on dramatically increasing educational quality and opportunity for the 600 million Indians under age 25, many of whom lack basic reading and math skills. In its 2014 Election Manifesto, Mr. Modi’s party, the Bharatiya Janata Party, called education “the most powerful tool for the advancement of the nation and the most potent weapon to fight poverty.” The question now is whether educational reform will be used not just to create an educated citizenry and trained work force but also to promote a particular ideology. While campaigning ahead of the May election, Mr. Modi, then the chief minister of the state of Gujarat, promised to bring the “Gujarat model” to national governance. Many voters understood this to mean a commitment to a more dynamic economy. But the Gujarat model has a less attractive side to it: a requirement that the state’s curriculum include several textbooks written by Dinanath Batra, a scholar dedicated to recasting India’s history through the prism of the Hindu right wing. In February, Mr. Batra led a successful effort to pressure Penguin India to withdraw copies of a book by Wendy Doniger, a religion professor at the University of Chicago, which he felt insulted Hinduism. Then, in June, the Gujarat government directed that several of Mr. Batra’s own books be added to the state’s curriculum. Mr. Batra’s teachings range from the trivial to assertions that simply cannot be taken seriously. His books advise students not to celebrate birthdays with cakes and candles, a practice Mr. Batra considers non-Indian. More troublingly, they instruct students to draw maps of “Akhand Bharat,” a greater India, presumably restored to its rightful boundaries, that include Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Tibet, Nepal, Pakistan and Afghanistan. Mr. Batra also believes that aircraft, automobiles and nuclear weapons existed in ancient India, and he wants children to learn these so-called facts. In 1999, the national government, then led by the Bharatiya Janata Party, put Mr. Batra in charge of rewriting history textbooks to reflect these and other views of the Hindu right. Now it appears that the party intends to pick up where it left off when it was voted out of power in 2004. Mr. Batra says Smriti Zubin Irani, the minister of human resource development, has assured him his books will soon be a part of the national curriculum. The education of youth is too important to the country’s future to allow it to be hijacked by ideology that trumps historical facts, arbitrarily decides which cultural practices are Indian, and creates dangerous notions of India’s place alongside its neighbors. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/09/opinion/false-teachings-for-indias-students.html?_r=0 Hindu day dreamers think that one day they will make Akhand Bharat Muslim day dreamers believe that one day they will make mughalistan and take over the world Sikh day dreamers believe that they will create Khalistan which will consist of Punjab , Haryana , parts of Rajasthan and Gujarat. though Sikh population in this area is only 10-12 % Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannmere Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) It is not education they need to eradicate poverty, it is morality they are in need of. Education in the hands of right wing hindutva idiots is a very dangerous tool and we all know why. It will not be used to create 'educated citizenery' or even a 'trained workforce' as they would like everyone to believe. It will be used to brainwash the illiterates under the guise of being educated. The masses will be fed with hateful right wing fascist ideology and encouraged to regurgitate it on the minorities and the marginalized. The world has already seen how they have managed to brainwash their child population with hatred towards the minorities. Hindutva does not like their religion consisting of 33 crore gods and goddesses insulted therefore it is out with any book that insults hinduism and in with Batra's books replete with right wing hindutva (hateful) ideology. An experiment sanctioned by the state to educate the dull masses. The books will be packed with lies and distorted history; history that will show the coward hindu masked in a costume/garb of a very brave warrior far too powerful to topple. It will not have any mention of slavery or colonization by foreigners. I can guarantee there will be no mention of East India Company!! I have never read any of his books but I am positive he will endeavour to depict a miserable hindu in a favorable way which fits nicely with the right wing fascist hindutva ideology. If his books assert even half the above mentioned lies then he is already on his way to a looney bin together with the dull and ignorant masses. Batra sounds like a typical mental case who needs his head examined. Never heard of "Akhand Bharat" ever before, if his definition of this concept is correct then we already have future Mr Saddam Husseins in the making waging wars for lost territories and lands that once constituted the so called "Akhand Bharat" meaningless concept. So forget about celebrating birthdays with cakes and candles, it is not part of hindu culture present or ancient! Good luck to all his despondent students studying his books containing nothing but far fetched lies and fantasies. In few years time we will witness the whole nation gone crazy on prescribed psychotropic or psychotherapeutic drugs to control their madness and fighting for lands such as Pakistan and bangladesh! India is a biggest lying nation in the world not only in terms of its population but also in terms of how it is going to lie to over a billion starving, uneducated, poverty sticken people who still live in slums about their history. Extremely perturbing state of affairs. The world has already witnessed actions motivated by right wing politics of hindtva BJP ie attacks on muslim minorities in Gurjrat and desecration of Babri Mosque. In the Punjab we see disregard for the sikh turban and the punjabi language which now have been replaced by clean shaven heads and hindi. This is why ideology of this kind is highly destructive. So any education reform initiated by the BJP is not going to aid in 'advancement.' It will promote everything that can be defined as 'hindu' or 'hinduism' and no room for opposition. This also means anyone objecting to their nationalist ideology will be silenced forever in the infamous jails of India where there exists the law of the jungle! With education reform in control of these pschotic BJP ideology followers we will see India heading towards the same destiny as Saddam Hussein and his mad wars ie Iran and Iraq war and his invasion of Kuwait and finally his demise. The ideology that breeds nationalism has followers that are fully deranged into believing that one day they will have 'Akahd Bharat' and I can assure you this is not just a mere dream but a goal motivated by this unpleasant right wing BJP politics. In this kind environment the question of celebrating birthdays western style with cakes and candles does not arise. Instead of candles they will introduce made in India deepaks and instead of cakes they will have by made in India mitayee! They will have India which has been fully and through and through hindueyeezd. Do not be surprised to see in another 5 years time they have also changed the name of the country which the British so lovingly named 'India' to either Akand Bharat or Hindu Bharat. We shall all wait and see which way this right wing hindutva politics blow the winds! Well done for pointing out concealed messages in the original article posted here on Sikh Awareness forum. This shows that our sikh brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, uncles and aunties living in India have to be informed to prepare for the worst. Anyone seen with a turban will be watched with suspicion. Sikh places of worship such as the sikh Gurdwaras will be mocked at. As you mention the 'minorities' will have no voice. Edited October 13, 2014 by Mannmere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannmere Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Hindu day dreamers think that one day they will make Akhand Bharat Muslim day dreamers believe that one day they will make mughalistan and take over the world Sikh day dreamers believe that they will create Khalistan which will consist of Punjab , Haryana , parts of Rajasthan and Gujarat. though Sikh population in this area is only 10-12 % Any dream that is motivated by right wing nationalism and has a majority in the government of the day is a dangerous kettle of fish. Hindutva BJP is that party, its only recently the US agreed to his visit. This kind of thinking will put hindus first because it is a hindu country and overlook the needs of the muslims, the sikhs, the budhists, the jainists, people with different sexual orientation and women etc. The mainstream culture will be immensely hindueyeezd which I know it already is anyway. It will be hindu this and hindu that, and this mentality will be exceedingly overt in every sphere of the Indian way of life. So next time when anyone buys air tickets to visit India they will have to take a flight to Akhand Bharat or Hindu Bharat!! Welcome to Bharat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaikaara Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 You seem to have better dreams than any Hindu ..! Any dream that is motivated by right wing nationalism and has a majority in the government of the day is a dangerous kettle of fish. Hindutva BJP is that party, its only recently the US agreed to his visit. This kind of thinking will put hindus first because it is a hindu country and overlook the needs of the muslims, the sikhs, the budhists, the jainists, people with different sexual orientation and women etc. The mainstream culture will be immensely hindueyeezd which I know it already is anyway. It will be hindu this and hindu that, and this mentality will be exceedingly overt in every sphere of the Indian way of life. So next time when anyone buys air tickets to visit India they will have to take a flight to Akhand Bharat or Hindu Bharat!! Welcome to Bharat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannmere Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 My dreams are motivated by true democratic values ie live and let live and to coexist peacefully with all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amandeep Hindustani Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Any dream that is motivated by right wing nationalism and has a majority in the government of the day is a dangerous kettle of fish. Hindutva BJP is that party, its only recently the US agreed to his visit. This kind of thinking will put hindus first because it is a hindu country and overlook the needs of the muslims, the sikhs, the budhists, the jainists, people with different sexual orientation and women etc. The mainstream culture will be immensely hindueyeezd which I know it already is anyway. It will be hindu this and hindu that, and this mentality will be exceedingly overt in every sphere of the Indian way of life. So next time when anyone buys air tickets to visit India they will have to take a flight to Akhand Bharat or Hindu Bharat!! Welcome to Bharat. The Moslem needs can never be met not in India not in Europe, amreeka or anywhere else. So now we are going in a different direction. You are doing us a favour by talking nonsense so continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannmere Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 The Moslem needs can never be met not in India not in Europe, amreeka or anywhere else. So now we are going in a different direction. You are doing us a favour by talking nonsense so continue. You are pathetic you know that, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatpalM Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) Well I never..................... Edited October 18, 2014 by SatpalM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatpalM Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) Huh! Edited October 18, 2014 by SatpalM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhagatSingh Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 If anyone wishes to reply to Satpal from my behalf you are welcome to. Satpal I have no intention of conversing with you or anyone in this thread. If you want to talk to me then PM me or make a new thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajputdamoonda Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) Edited October 19, 2014 by rajputdamoonda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashok kalia Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) Edited October 18, 2014 by ashok kalia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajputdamoonda Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 kiya baat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karma Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) Nothing new to add. Edited October 19, 2014 by karma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnPathToSikhi Posted October 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 The Problems With Systemic ‘Saffronisation’ Of Education In India Heeba Din August 4, 2014 Did you know that Qutub Minar was built by emperor Samudragupta and its real name was Vishnu Stambha, or that our original ancestors Manu and Shatrun gave life to this earth. That man took birth in Tibet, originally a part of India, and all beings were Aryan beings. Or that stem cell research was invented by India’s Dr. Balkrishna Ganpat Matapurkar, or that invention of television dates back to the Indian rishis using their yog vidya which would help them attain divya drishti for e.g. In Mahabharata, Sanjaya sitting inside a palace in Hastinapur and using his divya shakti would give a live update of the battle of Mahabharata, to the blind Dhritarashtra? These are few of the “Facts” about the world and national history that lakhs of students are learning as a part of their curriculum under RSS run schools all over India. One may laugh at or simply overlook the digressing ‘facts‘ mentioned above, but the underlying impact and erroneous amount of details and portrayals regarding minorities and different ideologies other than Hindus have set alarm bells ringing in the past. The National Steering Committee on Textbook Evaluation (consisting of a large number of experts from all over the country) appointed by the NCERT itself, a few years ago, came to the conclusion that ‘the main purpose which these books would serve is to gradually transform the young children into bigoted morons in the garb of instilling in them patriotism’. While The Rashtriya Swamayamsevak Sangh (RSS) has never deviated from its core ideology of forming a ‘Hindu Rastra’, it is the systematic attempt of rewriting history with saffron ink through its vast network of educational institutes like vidya bharti, one of the largest chain of private schools in India, catering mainly to lower middle class, Vanvasi Kalyan Ashram (VKA) which specialises in hostels for adivasi children along with other activities and Ekal Vidyalaya Foundation, which runs single pre-school teacher centres, where students are taught basic reading and writing of Sanskrit and Sanskrit behaviours, is a clear indicator of RSS’s slow but deliberate attempt of “saffronising” the education system of the country. And in the process, feeding large number of young brains with their core ideology of Hindutva. Now one might think how a right wing Hindu Nationalist group can rewrite the history of a mighty nation like India. The HRD ministry’s approval of creation of The Bharatiya Shiksha Niti Ayog (BSNA), which has been constituted by the RSS-affiliated Shiksha Sanskriti Utthan Nyas, that is mandated to “suggest corrective steps” to “Indianize” the education system, which will be headed by the controversial Dinanath Batra, the same person who advised Madhya Pradesh Chief Minister Shivraj Singh Chouhan to remove sex education from the state curriculum and got Penguin to pulp Wendy Doniger’s book “The Hindus: An Alternative History”, suggests which waves is the BJP led government riding. Coincidentally, the major attempts in recent past to change the course of Indian history and revamping the education system, where minorities were portrayed as main problems of the nation and Muslims, Christians and Parsis referred to as foreigners, where struggle for freedom was portrayed as war against the Muslims; all done in the name of instilling nationalism and national pride have been done in the last two terms of the BJP rule. First with Murli Manohar Joshi, the then HRD minster, going all out to saffronise the education system by bringing changes in NCERT text along with huge changes in the reconstitution of major educational bodies like Indian Institute of Advanced Studies, the NCERT and the Indian Council of Historical Research to include members having pro BJP/RSS stand. And now with Smriti Irani, the current HRD minster, trying to bring Vedas, ancient Hindu texts and Unpanishads in the syllabus of class 8th, 9th and 10th. One might profess that reading ancient texts and scripts has no communal aspect to it, but the agencies and institutions propagating the move are the one that need to be scrutinised. Created by the RSS in 1978, the Vidya Bharati, Akhil Bharatiya Shiksha Sansthan network, focuses on moral, extracurricular and physical education for “mind, body and spirit.” The Vidya Bharati educational mission is founded on the objective of training children to see themselves as protectors of a Hindu nation. The Vidya Bharati system supervises over 18,000 schools across India, with 1.8 million students and 80,000 teachers. A shared curriculum is used across the country. The Vidya Bharati operates 60 graduate institutions. About 5,000 Vidya Bharatis are endorsed by education boards primarily in states where the Bharatiya Janata Party is in power. Another organisation called Bhartiya Adhyapak Parishad, an offshoot of Vidya Bharti, has trained teachers on the ideology of Hindutva. Bhartiya Itihas Sanklan yojana was set up in 1973 to re-write Indian History of the past 5000 years to prove that the ‘Aryans’ are indigenous people, not the invaders. Samskar Bharti established in 1982 with the aim of preventing western influence on Indian culture has 900 branches. Akhil Bhartiya Vidyarthi Parishad, founded in 1948, was registered in 1949. Its sole objective is to channelize the energy of the students in the task of National reconstruction. Out of 30 Central Universities, it captured 15. Its activists played a major role in the 1992 demolition of Babri Masjid. With these organisations at the helm of affairs, the rabid distortions in historical texts and the influence on young minds under such ideology is capable of communalising the situation in no time and flaring up of sentiments in the name of patriotism and nationalism, and creating fundamentalists and extremists out of the innocent young children, who are constantly fed with an ideology of superiority of one sect and demonising of another. The fact that the government has failed to provide free education to children is also one of the contributing factors as to why such institutions and organisations are filled with students all year round. The poor, homeless illiterate parents have no option but to send their children to these schools backing a particular ideology, the only hope for their wards to have a future. Though BJP always took its stand against the previous ruling government’s inefficiency to stop the degradation of Indian culture and values, it is by bringing ancient texts and setting up a committee to “Indianise” education, that the current government seems to find solution to the problem. Mr. Batra, who will be heading the BSNA, a staunch advocate of revamping the whole education system with his campaign of Shiksha Bachao Andolan, which seeks to ban all ‘anti Hindu‘ books says, “NCERT textbooks will be rewritten according to the aim and objects of the nation so that it inculcates feeling of patriotism among children. Modernity is not westernisation. We want modernity with Indian base (marked by) patriotism and spiritualism.’’ What is the message that we send out to the growing child with these factual misrepresentations and deliberate exclusions of some historical events? The ICSE History and Civics textbook, Part II for Std. X, devotes a whole chapter to the ‘Formation of the Muslim League’. But there is no mention at all of Hindu communal organisations. It is in the same book that when assassination of Mahatma Gandhi is talked about, no mention or comment is made on Nathuram Godse or the ideology that drove him to assisinate Gandhi and neither the fact that the Government Of India banned RSS because of Godse’s close links with the organisation and the Hindu Mahasabha. Similarly, the Social Studies text for standard VIII of the Gujarat State Board has a tiny sub-section titled, “The Murder of Gandhi”. This reads thus: “After Independence there were severe communal riots in India. Gandhiji tried his utmost to suppress it. Many people did not like this. Gandhiji was murdered at the hands of Godsay on 30th January 1948.” On the other hand, the state government of Gujarat time and again has tried to meddle with the education system. On January 19, 2000, the Gujarat state education department sent out a GR directing all schools to subscribe to the RSS magazine, Sadhana. Sadhana is a monthly printed by the Gujarat unit of the RSS. Another circular brought out in December 2000 had insisted that all schools send their teachers to sanskrit training camps in preparation for the move to make the subject mandatory learning and teaching in schools. And the newly subscribed list of books for primary and secondary class is full with nationalist books written by authors like Dinanath Batra , which propagate epics and mythological instances as facts. Call it saffronisation of education, communalisation of education or politicisation of education, the basic fact remains that young minds are increasingly becoming laboratories for fundamentalists and extremists propagating their views and ideologies, while the innocent minds get fashioned in the beliefs which are inculcated in them and the result is creation of a generation which is fed half baked truths, misrepresented facts and distorted history. Is this the generation you want to be a part of? References: RSS sets up panel to supervise saffronisation of education http://www.youthkiawaaz.com/2014/08/problems-systemic-saffronisation-education-india/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karma Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) Whatever! Edited October 19, 2014 by karma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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