sukrit kaur Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 Gurbani is the truth. ਕਾਚੇ ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਹੂਆ ॥Through a false guru, liberation is not found. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh I said MAN MADE sources.Don't add Gurbani in this.I take it as a disrespect.And Yes ,from beginning I'm talking about a True Guru ,everyone knows a false Guru cannot help us. Gurfateh!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) Gurbani is the truth. ਕਾਚੇ ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਹੂਆ ॥ Through a false guru, liberation is not found. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh I take that to mean man made Gurus who would mislead in order to control the masses. I totally lump those in there who try to push back women into subservient and subordinant role. False Gurus lead us away from finding the Divine within ourselves. They mislead us into thinking we cant find the truth within ourselves... The True Guru is within us. Consider this when you read the next few lines of that same shabad you quoted Paapiman...in fact the VERY NEXT few lines right after the line you quoted: ਕੇਤੀ ਨਾਰਿ ਵਰੁ ਏਕੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥ Keṯī nār var ek samāl. There are so many brides of the One Husband Lord - consider this. ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਮਰਣੁ ਜੀਵਣੁ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਨਾਲਿ ॥ Gurmukẖ maraṇ jīvaṇ parabẖ nāl. The Gurmukh dies, and lives with God. ਦਹ ਦਿਸ ਢੂਢਿ ਘਰੈ ਮਹਿ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ Ḏah ḏis dẖūdẖ gẖarai mėh pā▫i▫ā. Searching in the ten directions, I found Him within my own home. Edited May 23, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukrit kaur Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) I take that to mean man made Gurus who would mislead in order to control the masses. I totally lump those in there who try to push back women into subservient and subordinant role. The True Guru is within us. Here are the next few lines of that same shabad you quoted Paapiman...in fact the VERY NEXT few lines right after the line you quoted: ਕੇਤੀ ਨਾਰਿ ਵਰੁ ਏਕੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥ Keṯī nār var ek samāl. There are so many brides of the One Husband Lord - consider this. ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਮਰਣੁ ਜੀਵਣੁ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਨਾਲਿ ॥ Gurmukẖ maraṇ jīvaṇ parabẖ nāl. The Gurmukh dies, and lives with God. ਦਹ ਦਿਸ ਢੂਢਿ ਘਰੈ ਮਹਿ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ Ḏah ḏis dẖūdẖ gẖarai mėh pā▫i▫ā. Searching in the ten directions, I found Him within my own home. Waheguru!! Waheguru!! Waheguru!! Dhan Guru Ramdass Patsahh!! Brides mean true souls ,gurmukhs,who have turned one with their husband(god)) Dhan hai oh mahapurkh ,gurmukh pyare!! Dhan Guru Dhan Guru Pyare!! And when one gets darshan of true naam in his own home(body),then he becomes another bride of one husband... Wahhh!!! May we get marry soon and get called as Brides!!! Dhan Sache patsahh!! Edited May 23, 2015 by sukrit kaur 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 I said MAN MADE sources.Don't add Gurbani in this.I take it as a disrespect.And Yes ,from beginning I'm talking about a True Guru ,everyone knows a false Guru cannot help us. Gurfateh!! sukrit kaur, on 23 May 2015 - 03:03 AM, said: I'm not a Hater.Hatred is not a principle of sikhism.. hey sache patsahh!!!! Who has promoted hatred in this topic? Can you please elaborate? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) papiman veerji but namdhari respect guru granth sahib too. i had seen thakur daleep singh ( present leader of namdhari faith[jeevan nagar] ) bow down to guru granth sahib and he is trying to unite the panth. Namdharis had given shaheedi to stop the bucherkhana which was made near harmandir sahib by britishers. they give full respect to women not like ddt. Bro, I am guessing, there are many hindus out there too, who respect SSGGSJ. But the problem is that, Naamdharis equate Baba Ram singh jee (a saint) to Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev jee Maharaaj. They have the freedom to do so, but then we cannot classify them as Sikhs. Namdharis did sacrifice a lot in the past. No one can deny that. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Edited May 23, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukrit kaur Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 sukrit kaur, on 23 May 2015 - 03:03 AM, said: Who has promoted hatred in this topic? Can you please elaborate? To talk about other sects in the manner you did,made me to think about hatred.I might be wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 To talk about other sects in the manner you did,made me to think about hatred.I might be wrong. No I took it the same... to use the word cult on another sect is huge disrespect. He doesnt actually know the meaning of cult. Cults brainwash their members, isolate them from family, drain their whole money and possessions, abuse their members to insight fear and submission, and make them think that if they ever left, they would go to hell or threaten to exile or shun them rest of their life. I knew someone who had to be rescued from an actual cult and deprogrammed. It was horrible. None of the Sikh sects fall under this term in any sense of the word! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 To talk about other sects in the manner you did,made me to think about hatred.I might be wrong. I am not promoting any hatred. I will respect a Radhaswami, Naamdhari or a Sant Nirankari, if he is a better human than me. The point of focus - how can a person affiliated with Naamdhari cult, who believes in a false theory - Baba Raam SIngh jee is the 12th guru of Sikhs - attain Brahamgyan? It is not possible. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 I am not promoting any hatred. I will respect a Radhaswami, Naamdhari or a Sant Nirankari, if he is a better human than me. The point of focus - how can a person affiliated with Naamdhari cult, who believes in a false theory - Baba Raam SIngh jee is the 12th guru of Sikhs - attain Brahamgyan? It is not possible. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Paapiman as far as I know Naamdhari do not fall under the meaning of cult: Cults brainwash their members, isolate them from family, drain their whole money and possessions, abuse their members to insight fear and submission, and make them think that if they ever left, they would go to hell or threaten to exile or shun them rest of their life. I knew someone who had to be rescued from an actual cult and deprogrammed. It was horrible. None of the Sikh sects fall under this term in any sense of the word! You are only using the term cult because you disagree with them. You dont actually know the meaning of the word!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) No I took it the same... to use the word cult on another sect is huge disrespect. He doesnt actually know the meaning of cult. Cults brainwash their members, isolate them from family, drain their whole money and possessions, abuse their members to insight fear and submission, and make them think that if they ever left, they would go to hell or threaten to exile or shun them rest of their life. I knew someone who had to be rescued from an actual cult and deprogrammed. It was horrible. None of the Sikh sects fall under this term in any sense of the word! Naamdhari is a cult as they believe in a false theory. AKJ is a cult, as some of its members, do not believe that Sri Raagmala Sahib jee is Gurbani. Simple definition of a cult: Quote a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader. Unquote [1] [1] - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cult?s=t Edited May 23, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukrit kaur Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 I am not promoting any hatred. I will respect a Radhaswami, Naamdhari or a Sant Nirankari, if he is a better human than me. TheWaheguru jee kaa KhalsaWaheguru jee kee Fateh Yes this what a true sikh is ought to do!! Then taking my words back!! Gur fateh!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) Naamdharis are a cult as they believe in a false theory. AKJ is a cult, as some of its members, do not believe that Sri Raagmala Sahib jee is Gurbani. Simple definition of a cult: Quote a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader. Unquote [1] [1] - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cult?s=t Sooo DDT is a cult then too by that definition because they have extremist views of women, which are false teaching that go against total equality in Gurbani. I'd much rather belong to a supposed cult (using that definition) that is only considered as such because *some* of its members disagree on one prayer, than to belong to a group who have an extreme view of women as being inferior to men and go against nearly the full SGGSJ where it states that women and men are equal (false teaching). Edited May 23, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukrit kaur Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 Naamdhari is a cult as they believe in a false theory. AKJ is a cult, as some of its members, do not believe that Sri Raagmala Sahib jee is Gurbani. Simple definition of a cult: Quote a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader. Unquote [1] [1] - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cult?s=t Here I'm again thinking about hatred.. You know some questions we can't answer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) Here I'm again thinking about hatred.. You know some questions we can't answer. That is why I said earlier, hatred is different from truth. If one says Naamdharis should be killed/beaten/discriminated/made fun of/punished for their belief - that is hatred. Stating the fact - Naamdhari is a cult - Truth. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Edited May 23, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 That is why I said earlier, hatred is different from Truth. If one says Naamdharis should be killed/beaten/discriminated/made fun of/punished for their belief - that is hatred. Stating the fact - Naamdhari is a cult - truth. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Then DDT is also a cult... truth. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramgharia Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) I am not promoting any hatred. I will respect a Radhaswami, Naamdhari or a Sant Nirankari, if he is a better human than me. The point of focus - how can a person affiliated with Naamdhari cult, who believes in a false theory - Baba Raam SIngh jee is the 12th guru of Sikhs - attain Brahamgyan? It is not possible. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fatehnamdharis follow the guru granth sahib as there holy granth and you can't call them cult. they follow the true meaning of bani they give full respect to women they do wake up at amrit vela and do 1 hour naam simran daily and do 5 banis with chandi ji di vaar in there nitnem the follow the tru gurmat sangeet maryada. at the there head quater bhaini there is a place where naam jap proyog is done 24*7. Edited May 23, 2015 by ramgharia 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) I'd much rather belong to a supposed cult (using that definition) that is only considered as such because *some* of its members disagree on one prayer, than to belong to a group who have an extreme view of women as being inferior to men and go against nearly the full SGGSJ where it states that women and men are equal (false teaching). The reason I say "some" of its members (see below) is because some members of AKJ do believe in Sri Raagmala Sahib jee. "AKJ is a cult, as some of its members, do not believe that Sri Raagmala Sahib jee is Gurbani." Edited May 23, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukrit kaur Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 That is why I said earlier, hatred is different from truth. If one says Naamdharis should be killed/beaten/discriminated/made fun of/punished for their belief - that is hatred. Stating the fact - Naamdhari is a cult - Truth. Waheguru jee kaa KhalsaWaheguru jee kee Fateh To say who is a cult or not is out of my " under progression" mind.So,I can't put any comments. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted May 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 A member of Naamdhari has just as much chance as anyone else of achieving Brahamgyan because the answer is WITHIN US. Paapiman will consider anyone who is not DDT / Nihang as a cult because he will just call all of them false. But he doesnt realize that DDT how they treat women is also false. Making DDT a cult by his own definition. The reason I say "some" of its members (see below) is because some members of AKJ do believe in Sri Raagmala Sahib jee. "AKJ is a cult, as some of its members, do not believe that Sri Raagmala Sahib jee is Gurbani." And DDT is a cult because nearly ALL of its members treat women as inferior, want women to bow to men to signify and show that inferiority, and restrict women from doing a lot of seva. That is false teaching and against Gurbani. Nearly ALL of SGGSJ speaks of equality of ALL humans. Guru Gobind Singh Jis 52 Hukams does not distinguish inferiority of gender. Man made rhetnamas like Chaupa Singh were sexist and based on their own views (in Chaupa Singhs case he was of Brahmin background!). DDT go against full equality, teach that only THEIR view is right, threaten others if they dont believe the same or name call etc... and this is more of a cult description than Naamdharis, or AKJ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 namdharis follow the guru granth sahib as there holy granth and you can't call them cult. they follow the true meaning of bani they give full respect to women they do wake up at amrit vela and do 1 hour naam simran daily and do 5 banis with chandi ji di vaar in there nitnem the follow the tru gurmat sangeet maryada. at the there head quater bhaini there is a place where naam jap proyog is done 24*7f Bro, just following SSGGSJ is different from worshiping it, as a living God. How can one call someone a Sikh, if he believes his human guru/sant is equal to Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev jee Maharaaj? This is utter blasphemy. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukrit kaur Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 . "AKJ is a cult, as some of its members, do not believe that Sri Raagmala Sahib jee is Gurbani." Bhai Randhir Singh ji thought so..So you are classifying him under group of " CulTs".. I'm completely disagree with you at this point.. Completely!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) Paapiman will consider anyone who is not DDT / Nihang as a cult because he will just call all of them false. Don't spread false information. Edited May 23, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 Bhai Randhir Singh ji thought so..So you are classifying him under group of " CulTs".. I'm completely disagree with you at this point.. Completely!! Do you believe in Sri Raagmala Sahib jee? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukrit kaur Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 Nihangs who eat meat are Tankhayiae in my vision.That's the Only doubt in my mind about any sect..To take life of someone is a biggg sin.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramgharia Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 PAPIMAN VEERJI AND SATKIRAN PENJI weather you belong to akj or ddt if you follow guru nanak dev jis teachings you are an unbreakable part of sikhi. don't called eachothers belifs as cult like we can't heard bad about guru granth sahib namdharis brothers also can't heard bad about there faith. papiman veerji AKJ also follow guru granth sahib and satkiran penji ddt are also sikhs we all are brothers please don't spred hatred. DDT=AKJ<GURU GRANTH SAHIB= AKAL PURKH 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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