How Do We Define 'brahamgyani'?

[CdnSikhGirl]

The eighth Ashtapadee in Sukhmani Sahib gives us a definition of Brahm Giani and a yardstick to measure if an individual has achieved this state of spiritual attainment and enlightenment.

Shalok: The True One is on his mind, and the True One is upon his lips. He sees only the One. O Nanak, these are the qualities of the Brahm Giani. ||1|| Ashtapadee:

The Brahm Giani is always unattached, as the lotus in the water remains detached. The Brahm Giani is always unstained, like the sun, which gives its comfort and warmth to all. The Brahm Giani looks upon all alike, like the wind, which blows equally upon the king and the poor beggar. The Brahm Giani has a steady patience, like the earth, which is dug up by one, and anointed with sandal paste by another. This is the quality of the Brahm Giani: O Nanak, his inherent nature is like a warming fire. ||1||

The Brahm Giani is the purest of the pure; filth does not stick to water. The Brahm Giani mind is enlightened, like the sky above the earth. To the Brahm Giani, friend and foe are the same. The Brahm Giani has no egotistical pride. The Brahm Giani is the highest of the high. Within his own mind, he is the most humble of all. They alone become Brahm Giani, O Nanak, whom God Himself makes so. ||2||

The Brahm Giani is the dust of all. The Brahm Giani knows the nature of the soul. The Brahm Giani shows kindness to all. No evil comes from the Brahm Giani. The Brahm Giani is always impartial. Nectar rains down from the glance of the Brahm Giani. The Brahm Giani is free from entanglements. The lifestyle of the Brahm Giani is spotlessly pure. Spiritual wisdom is the food of the Brahm Giani. O Nanak, the Brahm Giani is absorbed in Gods meditation. ||3||

The Brahm Giani centers his hopes on the One alone. The Brahm Giani shall never perish. The Brahm Giani is steeped in humility. The Brahm Giani delights in doing good to others. The Brahm Giani has no worldly entanglements. The Brahm Giani holds his wandering mind under control. The Brahm Giani acts in the common good. The Brahm Giani blossoms in fruitfulness. In the Company of the Brahm Giani, all are saved. O Nanak, through the Brahm Giani, the whole world meditates on God. ||4||

The Brahm Giani loves the One Lord alone. The Brahm Giani dwells with God. The Brahm Giani takes the Naam as his Support. The Brahm Giani has the Naam as his Family. The Brahm Giani is awake and aware, forever and ever. The Brahm Giani renounces his proud ego. In the mind of the Brahm Giani, there is supreme bliss. In the home of the Brahm Giani, there is everlasting bliss. The Brahm Giani dwells in peaceful ease. O Nanak, the Brahm Giani shall never perish. ||5||

The Brahm Giani knows God. The Brahm Giani is in love with the One alone. The Brahm Giani is carefree. Pure are the Teachings of the Brahm Giani. The Brahm Giani is made so by God Himself. The Brahm Giani is gloriously great. The Darshan, the Blessed Vision of the Brahm Giani, is obtained by great good fortune. To the Brahm Giani, I make my life a sacrifice. The Brahm Giani is sought by the great god Shiva. O Nanak, the Brahm Giani is Himself the Supreme Lord God. ||6||

The Brahm Giani cannot be appraised. The Brahm Giani has all within his mind. Who can know the mystery of the Brahm Giani? Forever bow to the Brahm Giani. The Brahm Giani cannot be described in words. The Brahm Giani is the Lord and Master of all. Who can describe the limits of the Brahm Giani? Only the Brahm Giani can know the state of the Brahm Giani. The Brahm Giani has no end or limitation. O Nanak, to the Brahm Giani, bow forever in reverence. ||7||

The Brahm Giani is the Creator of the entire world. The Brahm Giani lives forever, and does not die. The Brahm Giani is the Giver of the way of liberation of the soul. The Brahm Giani is the Perfect Supreme Being, who orchestrates all. The Brahm Giani is the helper of the helpless. The Brahm Giani extends his hand to all. The Brahm Giani owns the entire creation. The Brahm Giani is himself the Formless Lord. The glory of the Brahm Giani belongs to the Brahm Giani alone. O Nanak, the Brahm Giani is the Lord of all. ||8||8||

This is my own observation:

According to Sukhmani Sahib, a Brahamgyani remembers the ONE with every breath, sees ONLY THE ONE, looks upon ALL ALIKE (there is no exception for gender here). A Brahamgyani has no Egotistical pride (like wanting to be worshipped as God or bowed to - s/he would rather be seen as a commoner doing good for others), and remains unnattached (focusing on God - not human relationships like physical husband/wife - or telling others to do things that would cause them to form attachments - like worshipping another human as God), and ONLY those who reach this state only the Brahamgyani themselves can ever possibly know since this state can not be described to others. Since the Brahamgyani has fully espoused the qualities of God, there is no difference between them and God (even if only the Brahamgyani themselves know this truth).

This is how Sukhmani Sahib describes a Brahamgyani. Have we abandoned this description, and instead started using the term on any leader of whatever specific sect or jatha we decide to follow? Those from one sect, are highly unlikely to acknowledge someone from another sect as a Brahamgyani. (This has been recently evident on here) So the term has instead become a way to simply describe anyone who is seen as a spiritual leader and has full knowledge of the practices of a specific sect, a measurement of how many rules from that sect someone can follow (we've heard a lot lately the statement 'anyone can talk the talk of a Brahamgyani, but not walk the walk' - sorry to pick on you again Paapiman), then they are given that label by that sect, and then everyone hangs on that label taking their every word as the unadulterated word of God.

But who is truly quialified to give the label of Brahamgyani to someone? Sukhmani Sahib tells us since only those who reach this state can ever know, nobody is qualified to label someone a Brahamgyani. And the true Brahamgyani would be too humble to ever make this statement of themselves since they are 'steeped in humility'.

A Brahamgyani in my thinking would be someone who would do uttmost guide others to reach that same state, without ever calling themselves a Brahamgyani or looking for recognition as such and could equally be the poor person on the street side who still gives his last piece of bread to help another, as someone we might recognize as a leader of specific sect or jatha. In fact, one does not even need to be a Sikh to reach the state described above.

Is this state out of our reach as suggested by someone on here recently? We are told in Gurbani THIS is our chance to meet God. THIS human life... this is our purpose. Not to blindly follow rules and hope that in some future life we meet God. We are told that HERE AND NOW is our chance. Those who would say that 'we can never hope to reach this state' are wrong and are only trying to divert us from the path, delay our spiritual progression. Use this chance... this RARE chance at human life to find God within yourself. See God in everyone and everything. Realize the truth to reality and your own soul. It IS entirely possible but only you can make it happen and only you will know when you have reached this state! Your journey is YOURS alone!

Edited May 20, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur

[Guest]

Agree with the most of post above but like to caution on these statements

true Brahamgyani would be too humble to ever make this statement of themselves since they are 'steeped in humility'.

A Brahamgyani in my thinking would be someone who would do uttmost guide others to reach that same state, without ever calling themselves a Brahamgyani or looking for recognition as such and could equally be the poor person on the street side who still gives his last piece of bread to help another, as someone we might recognize as a leader of specific sect or jatha. In fact, one does not even need to be a Sikh to reach the state described above.

Whats our definition of humility and what humility actually is may varies. Our conditioned mind box humility certain way but what we need to realize - there are NO patterns, logic, rational bhramgyan follows thats why gurbani keep its open not closed or confined.

When bhramgyan(pure god realized knowledge) dawns on lucky one, it literally consumes the ego conditioned mind/ personality, its literally indentity shift there is NO you or me there is only bhramgyan/truth-undivided non dual real self and from the body its only truth/bhramgyan that flows but there are literally no rules, conditioned patterns , logic, rational you can throw on bhramgyan. Truth cannot be defined as soon truth is defined, we have conceptualized it- made it to idea, boxed it, truth cannot be defined, it could only be realized

[CdnSikhGirl]

agree ^ this is why I say it's wrong to box in the meaning of Brahamgyani as someone who can follow the most rules of a specific sect etc. or because of which granths they believe in etc. It's not about that... it's about realization of the truth.

And only that person which achieves that state can ever truly know for themselves.

What I was trying to say ref humility, was that someone who achieves this state would not care to brag about it for recognition... and this is just my own thoughts on it.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur

[ramgharia]

a brahamgiani is not bound to any religon brahamgianis are for all humanity. he/she knows the divine.

[ramgharia]

Brahmgiani is the conferrer of the way of liberation, the perfect being, rewarder of deeds.

Brahmgiani is the succourer of the helpless;

Brahmgiani affords protection to all.

All creation is Brahmgianis image;

Brahmgiani himself is the Supreme Being.

Brahmgiani alone is deserving of his high repute;

Of all is Brahmgiani the overlord, sayeth Nanak.

(GG, 273-74)

[paapiman]

A Brahamgyani will make an impact through his speech, katha, kirtan, seva, actions, talk, jokes, etc. A person (who has qualities of a jagayasu) will feel something different, when he/she is in company of him as compared to others

In my opinion, it is very hard for a Brahamgyani to hide his powers, except if he/she is Gupt.

ਐਸਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਰਤਨੁ ਨਿਰਮੋਲਕੁ ਪੁੰਨਿ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥

Such is the Naam, the Name of the Lord, the invaluable jewel, the most sublime wealth, which I have found through good deeds.

ਅਨਿਕ ਜਤਨ ਕਰਿ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਰਾਖਿਆ ਰਤਨੁ ਨ ਛਪੈ ਛਪਾਇਆ ॥੧॥

By various efforts, I have enshrined it within my heart; this jewel cannot be hidden by hiding it. ||1||

For example, when Srimaan 108 Sant Gyani Sundar Singh jee Khalsa Bhindrawale used to do katha, some people used to attain samadhi. This is called a Brahamgyani.

That is why Srimaan Sant Baba Nand Singh jee Maharaaj Kaleranwale used to refer to him, as Darghai Purush.

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

Edited May 20, 2015 by paapiman

[CdnSikhGirl]

A Brahamgyani will make an impact through his speech, katha, kirtan, seva, actions, talk, jokes, etc. A person (who has qualities of a jagayasu) will feel something different, when he/she is in company of him as compared to others

In my opinion, it is very hard for a Brahamgyani to hide his powers, except if he/she is Gupt.

ਐਸਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਰਤਨੁ ਨਿਰਮੋਲਕੁ ਪੁੰਨਿ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥

Such is the Naam, the Name of the Lord, the invaluable jewel, the most sublime wealth, which I have found through good deeds.

ਅਨਿਕ ਜਤਨ ਕਰਿ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਰਾਖਿਆ ਰਤਨੁ ਨ ਛਪੈ ਛਪਾਇਆ ॥੧॥

By various efforts, I have enshrined it within my heart; this jewel cannot be hidden by hiding it. ||1||

For example, when Srimaan 108 Sant Gyani Sundar Singh jee Khalsa Bhindrawale used to do katha, some people used to attain samadhi. This is called a Brahamgyani.

That is why Srimaan Sant Baba Nand Singh jee Maharaaj Kaleranwale used to refer to him, as Darghai Purush.

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

'Katha' can be done each and every day through our every words and actions to others. Katha means simply speak, narrate, impart knowledge to others. It doesn't have to be done from a podium in a gurdwara or even in front of a big public group. It can be though many mediums... including the internet! It can be in writing as easily as speaking voice! When someone who is spiritually realized shares their experiences with others, and gives them insight into how they themselves can attain the same realization, that is Katha.

I don't think anyone who is spiritually realized, would ever 'hide' this fact. But they won't go around looking for kudos and pats on the back. They won't look for people to bow to them and call them with the label 'Brahamgyani' because they are beyond physical, they are beyond ego. They are seeing things from the point of view of everything is ONE.

[paapiman]

If some people can share their personal experiences with Brahamgyanis or spiritually elevated persons, that would be great.

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

[CdnSikhGirl]

We can never know truly if someone is Brahamgyani.. Sukhmani Sahib tells us this! So you can know what someone says they have experienced but the only way you cxan understand the experience is to experience it for yourself. The whole point is that many many people may have reached Brahamgyani state and because a sect doesn't label them as such, you'd ignore them. But we are told nobody is qualified to give this label to anyone. Only those who actually reach that state can know. Do u understand?

Instead of hanging on the words of every baba or sant, listen to ALL those who have spiritual experiences. Try to actually find that experience yourself. Don't keep telling people they could 'never' reach that state... as the whole point of us being here in this human form is to realize that truth for ourselves! Not in some distant future life, but here and NOW!

[Ragmaala]

Firstly, I agree that we cannot know who is a Brahmgyani or not, but we can definitely know who is up there or not. Our subject is to get guidance & benefit from that spiritual person. Any saint or Baba who made a big difference in your Spiritual Life is definitely something.

We definitely need a guide who can take us to Guru. Only a guide who has met the Guru can take us to him. That is why sometimes murshads are needed.

Thus, the issue is not how do we define Brahmgyani, the issue is how do we find a complete being who can make a difference in our lives & take us to the Guru.

A journey of the Sikh ends in the feet of Guru, & brahmgyani is a guide who take us to Guru.

Dhan Guru Nanak!

[Ragmaala]

And there is a simple formula if you want to make a spiritual being your guide, or if you want to know that spiritual being can help you in your spiritual journey.

Before meeting that person, stand in front of Guru Granth Sahib Ji and do ardass that if that Sant is pooran or complete please let him solve a question or doubt in mind. You can present that doubt to Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. Now if that Sant is really a brahmgyani or complete , Guru Granth Sahib Ji will call that Sant and tell him that this devotee is coming to you please solve his doubt. If that sant is not a brahmgyani or incomplete that doubt of the devotee will not be answered. This is a 100% guaranteed method given by Baba Nand Singh JI to test if someone is worth surrendering to or not.

I personally tried this method on 2-3 mahapurakhs, it didn't work. So, I have not met a complete saint yet in my life. Even though I do believe some of them are very spiritual, but not complete yet. And then I stopped doing this method.

Anyways, this will open the FLOOD GATES, and I am not interested in engaging in debates regarding the issue of Sants & Mahapurakhs .

Those who are wise or have had company of Sants will understand, and those who are still new might find this absurd.

Thank you very much!

Dhan Guru Nanak!

[CdnSikhGirl]

i had said that if a SIKH wants brahamgian. for a non sikh then he she should read there books.

And my point stands... that if someone who is not even Sikh can attain the same state, then the books / granths are not the deciding factor.

We are taking about a spiritual awareness. Not a label of respect given to someone or a position of leadership etc. It's the spiritual awakening that is referred to as Brahamgyan. Not a label given to someone who is a spiritual leader or in a position of power, or revered by a certain sect etc.

The term Brahamgyani refers to someone who has attained that pure spiritual state of awareness. So a Sikh who has never read Dasam Granth, yes they can still attain this state. Some people have attained it through following organizaed religion at all and just were born blessed and had spiritual awakening.

Now if you want to simply refer to someone who is a leader of a sect or dhera etc and label them as a Brahamgyani, then you are changing what the word actually means. But in that case I think baba or sant is more fitting... someone who knows and follows fully that sects Rehet Maryada, knows all the literature etc. That's a Sikh scholar... just because someone is leader of s a sect, and has read all three granths and follows their RM to a tee... doesnt make them a Brahamgyani. And to attain the spiritual awakening that is a Brahamgyani, it can happen without any specific beliefs at all, though once it happens, that person would no longer be individual and would essentially be one with God.

Now, yes we were given the truth in granth form to help us as Sikhs to attain this state. However, arriving there is not dependent upon following them. Can you see the difference?

[jaikaara]

Would you call a person proven scientifically to have his kundalini awakened as a brahmgiani ?

And my point stands... that if someone who is not even Sikh can attain the same state, then the books / granths are not the deciding factor.

We are taking about a spiritual awareness. Not a label of respect given to someone or a position of leadership etc. It's the spiritual awakening that is referred to as Brahamgyan. Not a label given to someone who is a spiritual leader or in a position of power, or revered by a certain sect etc.

The term Brahamgyani refers to someone who has attained that pure spiritual state of awareness. So a Sikh who has never read Dasam Granth, yes they can still attain this state. Some people have attained it through following organizaed religion at all and just were born blessed and had spiritual awakening.

Now if you want to simply refer to someone who is a leader of a sect or dhera etc and label them as a Brahamgyani, then you are changing what the word actually means. But in that case I think baba or sant is more fitting... someone who knows and follows fully that sects Rehet Maryada, knows all the literature etc. That's a Sikh scholar... just because someone is leader of s a sect, and has read all three granths and follows their RM to a tee... doesnt make them a Brahamgyani. And to attain the spiritual awakening that is a Brahamgyani, it can happen without any specific beliefs at all, though once it happens, that person would no longer be individual and would essentially be one with God.

Now, yes we were given the truth in granth form to help us as Sikhs to attain this state. However, arriving there is not dependent upon following them. Can you see the difference?

Edited May 21, 2015 by jaikaara

[CdnSikhGirl]

Would you call a person proven scientifically to have his kundalini awakened as a brahmgiani ?

Not sure if this is possible? (scientifically proving I mean) But I think level of Brahamgyani might be more than kundalini energy rising... but I admittedly don't know much about 3HO and kundalini yoga (I never came to Sikhi through them), for myself I go by the definition of Brahamgyani in Sukhmani Sahib... it doesn't mention kundalini in that definition, even though other parts of SGGSJ do mention kundalini... so I honestly don't know.

Perhaps you can tell us what exactly does it mean when someone is kundalini awakened? I have heard of kundalini 'rising' as the coiled serpent (energy) at base of spine and the energy rises to crown chakra, activating all the other chakras in procession. As to what is exactly experienced or what one is 'suppsoed' to experience when this happens I don't know...

I have had several spiritual experiences myself... OBEs being one, hearing things during simran being another, feeling connectedness to everything, seeing through closed eyes somewhere distant (remote viewing?)... but I don't distinctly remember any spinal sensations etc.

[jaikaara]

http://koausa.org/kundalini/articles/index.html

[CdnSikhGirl]

One cannot call himself a Sikh, without taking Khanday da amrit. How will such a Nigura (person without a guru) reach Brahamgyan?

Quote

pRQm rihq Xih jwn KMfy kI pwhul Cky ] soeI isMG pRDwn Avr n pwhul jo ley ]

prathham rehith yehi jaan kha(n)ddae kee paahul shhakae ||asoee si(n)gh pradhhaan avar n paahul jo leae ||

To drink the Ambrosial Nectar of the Khanda (Amrit) is the primary instruction for the Sikh. He who abandons all other initiations is truly a great Sikh.

Rehatnama Bhai Desa Singh

Unquote [1]

[1] - http://www.sikhitothemax.com/rehat.asp?id=92

Non-Sikhs are a different case.

Because becoming Brahamgyan isn't restricted to only Sikhs! Amrit is instruction for Sikhs. Becoming Brahamgyan (reaching that state) is not reserved for only Sikhs. And there is no rule God made saying that if you are a Sikh you can never reach that state without doing this rule or that rule etc. The term is being misused I think. You guys are trying to attach a label of someone who follows a set of rules, is learned in certain Sikh traditions, and calling THAT Brahamgyani. But the Brahamgyani is above all religions! They are people who have become spiritually realized. And yes even a Sikh who has not taken Amrit can become spiritually realized. We are told that the truth is within ourselves. So anyone can find this truth. Finding this divine truth is Brahamgyan. Not following RMs, how many rules you can follow, how many things you can lock yourself away from or deny, how much literature you can read. That does not make someone a Brahamgyani. Brahamgyani is someone who becomes one with God... and acts as God in everything they do, say, and think even. They treat ALL equally, do only good for others, charity, see all humans as one and dont think any evil in any way. They have realized the truth. Nowhere is there a requisite that to reach this state you have to believe in ANY specific book or granth, or even be Sikh. And if you are Sikh, you can STILL find this truth... having never read Dasam Granth or taken Amrit.

It's not a label given for 'most dedicated Sikh' it's a spiritual realized state where that person no longer sees themself separate from God. You are using wrong meaning of the term Brahamgyani!

How would nonsikhs be any different? Truth is truth. Becoming Brahamgyani is not a rule or mere label given for following a speciific set of rules. It's referring to the actual spiritual state itself.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur

[paapiman]

Because becoming Brahamgyan isn't restricted to only Sikhs!

How would nonsikhs be any different? Truth is truth. Becoming Brahamgyani is not a rule or mere label given for following a speciific set of rules. It's referring to the actual spiritual state itself.

Read the above post carefully.

[jaikaara]

Maalko ..post please move kar deyo ji..oh link wali post vi ..

We are going off-topics guy, there is special thread made by satkiran penji regarding bhramgyani. Jaikara veer posted a interesting thought provoking question, can you please post there veer? or i can move off topics regarding bhramgyani on that thread. I read a sage katha regarding kundalini awakening and bhramgyan..i will try to get commentary on it today.

[paapiman]

Before meeting that person, stand in front of Guru Granth Sahib Ji and do ardass that if that Sant is pooran or complete please let him solve a question or doubt in mind. You can present that doubt to Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. Now if that Sant is really a brahmgyani or complete , Guru Granth Sahib Ji will call that Sant and tell him that this devotee is coming to you please solve his doubt. If that sant is not a brahmgyani or incomplete that doubt of the devotee will not be answered. This is a 100% guaranteed method given by Baba Nand Singh JI to test if someone is worth surrendering to or not.

Dhan Guru Nanak ---- tu heen Nirankaar

[sukrit kaur]

People who believe that their human guru is greater than SGGSJ, can also reach Brahamgyan?

Don't talk about non-Sikhs. That is a different topic.

If you say Guru Nanak patsah greater than SGGSJ or SGGSJ greater than Guru Nanak patsah or u say Guru Ramdass patsah greater than Guru Gobind singh JI maharaj and vice versa.Does that make sense????

When one jot(of any jeev atma) merges with true/greatest jot of akal purkh,then there remains no difference between two.

As garbage on dissolving in ocean ,remains with no existence ,same happens in case of brahmgyan.But still we can ONLY talk ,can't put the TRUTH in words.

So,it's quite better to ask waheguru Ji for any doubts rather than to blame this and that.

WJKKWJKF!!

Edited May 21, 2015 by sukrit kaur

[CdnSikhGirl]

If you say Guru Nanak patsah greater than SGGSJ or SGGSJ greater than Guru Nanak patsah or u say Guru Ramdass patsah greater than Guru Gobind singh JI maharaj and vice versa.Does that make sense????

When one jot(of any jeev atma) merges with true/greatest jot of akal purkh,then there remains no difference between two.

As garbage on dissolving in ocean ,remains with no existence ,same happens in case of brahmgyan.But still we can ONLY talk ,can't put the TRUTH in words.

So,it's quite better to ask waheguru Ji for any doubts rather than to blame this and that.

WJKKWJKF!!

Exactly, a Brahamgyani has become one with Creator. It doesn't matter from which path they arrived at this end state, what matters is only that they DID arrive at this state! And again, Sukhmani Sahib tells us we can never know. It's not up to us to say whether someone can or can not attain this state. It's for every individual themselves. We can't go attaching rules and this and that and making statement that if someone doesn't follow DDT/Nihang etc they can't relize the Universal truth... who are we to tell anyone that they are allowed or not allowed to reach spiritual realization? Our Holy Granths are there to help people realize this state (all of us), but if someone arrives there by different means, who are we to denounce them??!

Paapiman, I know you are beating around the bush hinting *rather strongly* that only so called 'orthodox' sects can produce a Brahamgyani. But its not up to you, it's not up to leaders of any sects... it's up to every individual within themselves and it's between they and God alone. We as human can not put restrictions on anyone saying they can't ever attain this state unless they belong to a certain sect etc.

Truth is Universal and anyone can find it. Read description in Sukhmani Sahib... that should be all you need to know...

[sukrit kaur]

She believes Nirankaris, Naamdharis and Radhaswamis can also reach Brahamgyan. Can someone comment on it?

You mean Nirankaris,Naamdharis or Radhaswami can't attain brahmgyan???,and why??

[Guest]

Would you call a person proven scientifically to have his kundalini awakened as a brahmgiani ?

This is what i have gathered by listening to sage katha:

Kundalini awakening is by product of spiritual awakening process leading to bhramgyan but not always, you don't need kundalini awakening in order to reach bhramgyan. Kundalini awakening is higher reality but not absolute reality, its landmark not destination.

Bhramgyan is direct immediate awakening to fundamental reality - who we are? Whereas Kundalini is awakening of subtle body so that it can functions as high level capacity of body, by product of awakening

Whats important here to question? Who is having the experience- kundalini awakening? If answer is dream character - separate I than regardless how many mystical experience, kundalini awakening one has that will not lead to bhramgyan until actually separate I - is addressed.

Enlightenment is consciousness is lets go of its dream character separate I and realizing itself (man tu jot saroop, apna pool painchain), its self realization of self/surat- consciousness permanent abidance in stateless state-prior to anything experience, perceivable- rather than whats being experienced, its lucidness of dream- light behind dream which supports all not the character itself-separate I.

[harsharan000]

Usually people call brahmgyani, to someone who has attained access to inner reality to an extent, and has quite a good spiritual knowledge also.

But as usual, Gurbani has the answers here to this topic.

I am going to reproduce just a few lines from Sukhmani Sahib, regarding the status of a Brahmgyani.

Brahmgyani sang sagal udhar: In the company of a Brahmgyani, all are saved.

Nanak, Brahmgyani, japai sagal sansaar : O Nanak, in the company of a Brahmgyani, everyone learns to worship and remeber God.

Brahgyani kai Naam adhaar: The Name of the Lord, is the support of the Brahmgyani.

Brahmgyani, Brahm ka betá. Bramgyani ek sang hetá: The Brahmgyani is the knower of God. The Brahmgyani is loves God alone.

There is much more mahima in the Bani, of a Perfect Being like a Brahmgyani...to the extent that, Guru Sahiban, in the end proclaims:

Nanak, Brahmgyani sarab ka Dhani. O Nanak, the Bramgyani is the Lord Himself.

I suggest all, to read again and again Sukhmani Sahib, just reproducing a few lines, does no justice to the Mahima of a Brahmgyani.

We by ourselves can never ever know or judge someone of that spiritual heights. The Bani is utterly beyond any beauty that one can imagine.... It is like, giving gur to a dumb person and ask him, how is the taste of it.

As the Bani says: Brahmgyani ka daras, vadbhagee paeeyey. To be in the company of a Brahmgyani and have His Darshan, is not in our hands either, it by good fortune, by His blessings, that we get drawn at the Lotus Feet of such a being...

The Bani of our Guru Sahibans, is not just for to read it like parrots, but, to take the "rus of Amrit" of each singe word in it, which are sweeter than any honey, as it is the Pure paviter Bani, chanted by our very Guru Sahibans, and Bhagats of the Highest spiritual order.

Sat Sree Akal

Edited May 21, 2015 by harsharan000

[paapiman]

If you say Guru Nanak patsah greater than SGGSJ or SGGSJ greater than Guru Nanak patsah or u say Guru Ramdass patsah greater than Guru Gobind singh JI maharaj and vice versa.Does that make sense????

When one jot(of any jeev atma) merges with true/greatest jot of akal purkh,then there remains no difference between two.

As garbage on dissolving in ocean ,remains with no existence ,same happens in case of brahmgyan.But still we can ONLY talk ,can't put the TRUTH in words.

So,it's quite better to ask waheguru Ji for any doubts rather than to blame this and that.

WJKKWJKF!!

SSGGSJ is the current form of Satguru Sri Guru Nanak dev jee Maharaaj. There is no difference between them.

Who said SSGGSJ is greater than Satguru Sri Guru Nanak dev jee Maharaaj or fourth master is greater than tenth master?