paapiman Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 And where is this written Paapiman? I said SHOW ME IN GURBANI. GURBANI is ABOVE any man made maryada. This is someone's own interpretation and not truth. Husband should not have status higher than his wife. If thats how it was I would never get married simply out of principle! Because I would never want to be second status to someone. How could a husband and wife have a loving relationship as a couple, if one was always made to feel lower status than the other? It would not feel like an equal partnership that its supposed to be and instead would feel like a business proposition, or master / servant relationship. That is NOT how marriage should be. One should NOT be made to feel inferior to the other or have lesser status. That's just WRONG and you know its wrong. You are just trying to grasp straws to justify it because you believe personally that you are superior to women.And Spiritual birth does not take gender. Spiritual birth is about SPIRIT - which is GENDERLESS. Makes no sense that a penis would be required! Tell me how a penis is needed for spiritual birth??? Parents should BOTH be respected equally. Not one over the other. This is a cultural thing and not religion thing. Again, the Gurbani verse was provided to you in the past. If you have time to go around in circles, then you can keep doing it. Time is very precious in life.Anyways, let's stay on the topic.Bhul chuk maaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) Back to Islam, just go to ANY Islamic run country and see the position of women... You are posting from Islamic apologetics who try in media to smooth over the Image of Islam. But in actual Islamic countries, see how it's actually PRACTICED! Thats what matters. Muslim women in rich Islamic countries like Kuwait, Bahrain, UAE and Qatar enjoy life a lot. I know people, including non-Muslims, who have lived there. They drive luxurious cars, live in beautiful houses, shop around, etc.Roaming around half- naked and dressing provocatively, does not mean that a woman's position in society is really great.Bhul chuk maaf Edited June 12, 2015 by paapiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Again, the Gurbani verse was provided to you in the past. If you have time to go around in circles, then you can keep doing it. Time is very precious in life.Anyways, let's stay on the topic.Bhul chuk maafThat one tuk you keep twisting? That shabad is not about physical husband and wife, its about soul brides. And even by those who take it to mean 'see husband as God' they also take it to mean that its inferred that the husband is also to see his wife as God. You are the one who is taking it wrongly. And, Kuttabanda2 just posted that the original DDT GRM prior to this edited version doesn't even have that sexist line in there!!!!!!!!!!! Meaning it was added only recently. And I mean seriously if we could twist every line of Gurbani of of context to mean what we want, then I could also show you verses that put you in the low position too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 That one tuk you keep twisting? That shabad is not about physical husband and wife, its about soul brides. And even by those who take it to mean 'see husband as God' they also take it to mean that its inferred that the husband is also to see his wife as God. You are the one who is taking it wrongly. And, Kuttabanda2 just posted that the original DDT GRM prior to this edited version doesn't even have that sexist line in there!!!!!!!!!!! Meaning it was added only recently. And I mean seriously if we could twist every line of Gurbani of of context to mean what we want, then I could also show you verses that put you in the low position too! Off-topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Can we lock this topic as its going off-topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Here you go... "you wanted to leave and only stayed because you were asked to stay. Can't you go because :a - you wanted tob - because you are being asked to. I am sure there are other feminist centric places you can go. I see you have conveniently ignored this . Why have you deliberately tried to mislead the members here satkirrin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Again, 'it doesn't happen because I didn't see it'. Isn't that a stupid thing to say?maybe. i am speaking just from i saw. same as in my house. only the males touch the feet or knees of elders. the females never touch feet or knees of elders.nor did i see it happening at Mehta Chowk the few times ive been there. just seems very weird to have it written there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) I come from a Taksali background and have never seen it either though. Edited June 12, 2015 by SikhKhoj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Dear SA While shopping on my break I observed Muslims preaching words from the Quran and trying to convince passers that Islam is the truth.As long as they stay civilized, a Sikh should have no problem with Muslims preaching Quran. One can learn a lot from the Quran. It is a beautiful book.Some Muslims might think that they are doing parupkaar (mercy) on others by telling them about their ethics and values. It is understandable.Bhul chuk maaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuttabanda2 Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 its to do with a hadith of the holy prophet of islam "when you have discovered the truth do not keep it concealed to yourself but reveal it to others."He was a holy man. There is no doubt about it.Bhul chuk maaf.Dasam Patshah says something totally different about Muhammed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuttabanda2 Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Again, can you please provide references?Dude, just read at least 4-5 chapters of Koran, it's like a manual of totalitarian and supremacist evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuttabanda2 Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 WhateverBhai Gurbachan Singh DDT, happy?It's not necessary for you shove your hatred for him up our @sses at any given opportunity. Yeah, we get it. You have a grudge against him. Move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuttabanda2 Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Do you know, who has translated the above verses? This website seems to be a hate promoting website. Promoting hate is a big sin in Sikhism. Please refrain from posting from such websites, in the future.Have you talked with an Islamic scholar, regarding the above mentioned verses?There are certain tuks in Gurbani, that can also be misinterpreted.For example,ਜੋ ਸਿਰੁ ਸਾਂਈ ਨਾ ਨਿਵੈ ਸੋ ਸਿਰੁ ਕਪਿ ਉਤਾਰਿ ॥੭੧॥The head which does not bow to the Lord - chop off and remove that head. ||71||The above tuk can be easily misinterpreted, so as to mean, kill all the non-believers.Bhul chuk maafActually, the Arabic is in prose, however, there are no other sound, rational, accurate, reasonable, or logical interpretations of those verses because Koranic language is quite simple and clear, there are little to no reasonable allegories or metaphors in this instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuttabanda2 Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 As long as they stay civilized, a Sikh should have no problem with Muslims preaching Quran. One can learn a lot from the Quran. It is a beautiful book.Some Muslims might think that they are doing parupkaar (mercy) on others by telling them about their ethics and values. It is understandable.Bhul chuk maafThe Qur'an is not a beautiful book, rather it's a devilish and nightmarish constitution sheer Totalitarianism and Muslim Supremacy. It's time people stop lying to themselves and blindly accepting precepts. The Qur'an's violent verses are really clear, there is no ambiguity regarding it's violent verses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuttabanda2 Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Did you know that a Sikh killed another Sikh, during the times of seventh master and was forgiven by him?Did you know that a Sikh (Baba Joga Singh jee) was about to go to a prostitute? If yes, then why cannot Prophet Muhammad make a mistake in his life? I never said that he was perfect. How do you know that Srimaan 108 Sant Baba Gurbachan SIngh jee Khalsa Bhindrawale, lied about Prophet Muhammed? It could be a true story. Are you not being a hypocrite too? On one hand, you are saying that Prophet Muhammad looted and murdered and on the other hand, you are unable to digest the sakhi of the Prophet and the sadhu? It is the duty of every Sikh to show respect to all other people, especially the spiritually enlightened ones, irrespective of their faith. A spiritually enlightened person, who has not reached Brahamgyan, can also make mistakes. That does not mean, we must stop respecting them for their good deeds.Hypocrisy or giving due respect?Bhul chuk maafHow is pedophilia, genocide, rape, looting, upon other atrocities mistakes? No one is insulting the religion, they're criticizing it, there's a fine line between criticism and Slander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuttabanda2 Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Chatangea, its written in Taksal book. You not having seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen; it is allowed in theory... And if showing logical fallacies make me stupid then proud to be stupid.Again, 'it doesn't happen because I didn't see it'. Isn't that a stupid thing to say?And yes, Sandhu did have 2 wives, the first one became Shaheed during Blue Star.Which Taksal book? Which publisher? and what year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSD1 Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Insecure people tend to hate things that counter their views or make them feel bad. Muslims have always had a chip on their shoulder due to being a load of nonsense thought up by a desert madmen and practiced by his barbarians as they ravaged the Eastern Roman and Sassanid Empires. Dawah allowed them to attack these people and take their 'stuff' without having to feel bad about it. The Spanish were the first to adopt this method which they called the Requerimiento, which they had learned after the Reconquista, to use against the Native Americans. A notorious example was when they held the Inca King hostage and told him to convert. He didnt so the Spanish used that as a reason to ransom him for gold, kill him, rape his wife and kill her before repeating this on his population just because they wouldnt accept Christ. Obviously they would have done it anyway if the Inca became Catholic, but the Dawah/Requiremento was always about giving the enemy an offer that even if you know they wont accept will absolve you of any sins when you murder, rape and loot from them. Ultimately it all boils down to the inherent jealousy, entitlement and privilege that Abrahamics feel towards others. THe rest of the posts in this thread need to be deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 The Qur'an is not a beautiful book, rather it's a devilish and nightmarish constitution sheer Totalitarianism and Muslim Supremacy. It's time people stop lying to themselves and blindly accepting precepts. The Qur'an's violent verses are really clear, there is no ambiguity regarding it's violent verses. Bro, I am not a scholar on Islam, so I won't be able to explain those verses to you.I don't think, there is any verse in Gurbani which states that Quran is a false book. On the other hand, there is an indication in Gurbani that Quran is not a false book.ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਕਹਹੁ ਮਤ ਝੂਠੇ ਝੂਠਾ ਜੋ ਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false.Bhul chuk maaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Insecure people tend to hate things that counter their views or make them feel bad. Muslims have always had a chip on their shoulder due to being a load of nonsense thought up by a desert madmen and practiced by his barbarians as they ravaged the Eastern Roman and Sassanid Empires. Dawah allowed them to attack these people and take their 'stuff' without having to feel bad about it.The Spanish were the first to adopt this method which they called the Requerimiento, which they had learned after the Reconquista, to use against the Native Americans. A notorious example was when they held the Inca King hostage and told him to convert. He didnt so the Spanish used that as a reason to ransom him for gold, kill him, rape his wife and kill her before repeating this on his population just because they wouldnt accept Christ. Obviously they would have done it anyway if the Inca became Catholic, but the Dawah/Requiremento was always about giving the enemy an offer that even if you know they wont accept will absolve you of any sins when you murder, rape and loot from them.Ultimately it all boils down to the inherent jealousy, entitlement and privilege that Abrahamics feel towards others.THe rest of the posts in this thread need to be deleted.Bro, if some evil people have used religion for their selfish motives, it does not mean that those religions are false.Bhul chuk maaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSD1 Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Sikhi is anti-dogmatic. Guru Nanak insulted religion and belief the world over that did not fit his world view. If that's too controversial for your left wing views then good for you, but I will always value human life over human belief no matter what. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Sikhi is anti-dogmatic. Guru Nanak insulted religion and belief the world over that did not fit his world view. If that's too controversial for your left wing views then good for you, but I will always value human life over human belief no matter what.Can you please provide examples, where Satguru jee insulted other religions?Satguru jee was against hypocrisy and falsehood, not against any religion.Bhul chuk maaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSD1 Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Pointing your feet at the Kabah was insulting and jumping in a river to mock the traditions of others is pretty rude from other people's point of view. What if religions are built on hypocrisy and falsehood? Centuries after the Khalsa was formed it looks like some Sikhs have found new holy cows. Religion is not an infallible construct above criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Pointing your feet at the Kabah was insulting and jumping in a river to mock the traditions of others is pretty rude from other people's point of view.What if religions are built on hypocrisy and falsehood? Centuries after the Khalsa was formed it looks like some Sikhs have found new holy cows. Religion is not an infallible construct above criticism.Maharaaj pointed feet at Kabbah to teach Muslims a lesson. He did not do it, to insult them, but to show them the truth that God exists everywhere. Intention is the key. If a person like me, starts pointing his feet towards kabbah (If I am in Mecca), that would be stupidity and against Gurmat principles.Jumping in a river? Are you talking about the incident at Haridwar, where Satguru jee started throwing water in the other direction?Bhul chuk maaf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSD1 Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 It doesnt matter whether they learnt their lesson or not as it quite clearly offended them. It caused offence and you cant deny that. Why cant you point your feet at the Kabah? Are you saying you cant follow the meaning of Guru Nanak's teachings? Anyway you're not even allowed in Mecca so dont start talking about Gurmat principles in situations that would no longer arise. The other time is when the water was thrown in the other direction, dont you feel that some of the people their would have been offended at having their ritual mocked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 It doesnt matter whether they learnt their lesson or not as it quite clearly offended them. It caused offence and you cant deny that. Why cant you point your feet at the Kabah? Are you saying you cant follow the meaning of Guru Nanak's teachings? Anyway you're not even allowed in Mecca so dont start talking about Gurmat principles in situations that would no longer arise.The other time is when the water was thrown in the other direction, dont you feel that some of the people their would have been offended at having their ritual mocked?But, Satguru jee were able to explain them, why he did it. It must have caused offense initially, but then he showed a miracle. All the people, who saw that miracle had no option left, but to bow before him. Do you think, you or me can do it?Bro, we need to follow Satguru's teachings, not try to mimic his acts.Pointing feet was an example. Non-muslims are not allowed in Mecca, but they are allowed in Medina.Bhul chuk maaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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