paapiman Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 I am not suggesting that I am saying you want to apply argument against this for eggs/meat yet milk you are ok with it you are just accepting milk to uphold just because saint did so...either accept all or deny milk as well..sorry you cannot have both ways with your logic. Someone else has brought in the argument of mistreatment of animals in this topic, not me. Also, to say that milk is not meant for human consumption is anti-Gurmat.Bhul chuk maaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 Someone else has brought in the argument of mistreatment of animals in this topic, not me. Also, to say that milk is not meant for human consumption is anti-Gurmat.Bhul chuk maafSorry to say Paapiman, cow milk is actually meant for baby cows! Though we exploit them and use it for our own usage, and it's safe for human consumption... but it always was meant for the baby calves... those baby calves are killed so you and I can drink the milk that nature intended for them. You can't deny this!!! And it's not anti-gurmat!!! Stop saying that everything you disagree with is anti-gurmat! LOL And read once in awhile for yourself instead of just saying Saint Baba so and so said so, so it must be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 I am trying to show you the hyprocisy of rejecting eggs and meat, while still drinking milk, as Guru Nanak Dev Ji pointed out. But you are too thick headed to understand what he was saying!What about the other foods which you eat? Are you 100% sure that there is no forced labor/slave labor involved in it? Do you want us investigate our food every time?What about the other products which we use? Soaps, jackets, clothes, shampoos, belts, quilts? Do you want us to investigate all those too? Consuming dairy while saying meat is forbidden for spiritual reasons, while fully knowing the baby calves the milk was meant for are salughtered anyway so you can drink that milk, is being a hypocrite!!! The same hypocrisy that Guru Nanak Dev Ji spoke against in the shabad above!!!! So what should we do? Stop eating dairy products and not stay healthy? It is also possible that other foods too have moral issues. Should we starve to death?Bhul chuk maaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) Sorry to say Paapiman, cow milk is actually meant for baby cows! Though we exploit them and use it for our own usage, and it's safe for human consumption... but it always was meant for the baby calves... those baby calves are killed so you and I can drink the milk that nature intended for them. You can't deny this!!! And it's not anti-gurmat!!! Stop saying that everything you disagree with is anti-gurmat! LOL And read once in awhile for yourself instead of just saying Saint Baba so and so said so, so it must be true. So you are saying that Satguru jee was wrong in allowing Dairy products in langar? Are you above him?Bhul chuk maaf Edited September 22, 2015 by paapiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) What about the other foods which you eat? Are you 100% sure that there is no forced labor/slave labor involved in it? Do you want us investigate our food every time?What about the other products which we use? Soaps, jackets, clothes, shampoos, belts, quilts? Do you want us to investigate all those too? So what should we do? Stop eating dairy products and not stay healthy? It is also possible that other foods too have moral issues. Should we starve to death?Bhul chuk maafYou still aren't getting it! It's NOT NOT NOT NOT the food tself which is being spoken against! It's perfectly fine to drink milk, it's perfectly fine to eat eggs, and perfectly fine to eat meat! Just don't cause undue suffering to the animal in the process!!!! Meat must be jhatka. Eggs don't cause any harm to the animal because they were never fertilized, so there is no life there being harmed, and chickens lay eggs regardless if they are impregnated or not!You are falling into the EXACT hypocrisy that Guru Nanak Dev Ji was trying to warn about... blindy following rituals, saying eat this dont eat that for spiritual / religious reasons, while still turning a blind eye to the suffering you are causing in the process! It's fine to drink milk... we aren't saying not to! What I am trying to get you to understand is NOT to be ah ypocrite by consuming milk, while in the same breath claiming eating meat and eggs is bad, while you know fully that the calves the milk was meant for are slaughtered, and the dairy cows are treated horribly! Understand it's this hypocrisy and NOT the issue of meat you should be concerned with! Drop the meat / egg / milk issue and look at the hypocrisy!Here is a shabad which puts meat on the same level as ghee and all other food in fact, making the statement that all of these are of no use to us (spiritually or otherwsie) if the True Lord (Waheguru) does not abide in our mind... ਮਃ ੧ ॥ मः १ ॥Mėhlā 1.First Mehl: ਕਿਆ ਖਾਧੈ ਕਿਆ ਪੈਧੈ ਹੋਇ ॥Ki▫ā kẖāḏẖai ki▫ā paiḏẖai ho▫e.What good is food, and what good are clothes, ਜਾ ਮਨਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਸਚਾ ਸੋਇ ॥Jā man nāhī sacẖā so▫e.if the True Lord does not abide within the mind? ਕਿਆ ਮੇਵਾ ਕਿਆ ਘਿਉ ਗੁੜੁ ਮਿਠਾ ਕਿਆ ਮੈਦਾ ਕਿਆ ਮਾਸੁ ॥Ki▫ā mevā ki▫ā gẖi▫o guṛ miṯẖā ki▫ā maiḏā ki▫ā mās.What good are fruits, what good is ghee, sweet jaggery, what good is flour, and what good is meat? ਕਿਆ ਕਪੜੁ ਕਿਆ ਸੇਜ ਸੁਖਾਲੀ ਕੀਜਹਿ ਭੋਗ ਬਿਲਾਸ ॥Ki▫ā kapaṛ ki▫ā sej sukẖālī kījėh bẖog bilās.What good are clothes, and what good is a soft bed, to enjoy pleasures and sensual delights? ਕਿਆ ਲਸਕਰ ਕਿਆ ਨੇਬ ਖਵਾਸੀ ਆਵੈ ਮਹਲੀ ਵਾਸੁ ॥Ki▫ā laskar ki▫ā neb kẖavāsī āvai mahlī vās.What good is an army, and what good are soldiers, servants and mansions to live in? ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚੇ ਨਾਮ ਵਿਣੁ ਸਭੇ ਟੋਲ ਵਿਣਾਸੁ ॥੨॥Nānak sacẖe nām viṇ sabẖe tol viṇās. ||2|| O Nanak, without the True Name, all this paraphernalia shall disappear. ||2|| It's like trying to talk to a brick wall!!! Edited September 22, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 You still aren't getting it! It's NOT NOT NOT NOT the food tself which is being spoken against! It's perfectly fine to drink milk, it's perfectly fine to eat eggs, and perfectly fine to eat meat! Just don't cause undue suffering to the animal in the process!!!! Meat must be jhatka. Eggs don't cause any harm to the animal because they were never fertilized, so there is no life there being harmed, and chickens lay eggs regardless if they are impregnated or not!You are falling into the EXACT hypocrisy that Guru Nanak Dev Ji was trying to warn about... blindy following rituals, saying eat this dont eat that for spiritual / religious reasons, while still turning a blind eye to the suffering you are causing in the process! It's fine to drink milk... we aren't saying not to! What I am trying to get you to understand is NOT to be ah ypocrite by consuming milk, while in the same breath claiming eating meat and eggs is bad, while you know fully that the calves the milk was meant for are slaughtered, and the dairy cows are treated horribly! Understand it's this hypocrisy and NOT the issue of meat you should be concerned with! Drop the meat / egg / milk issue and look at the hypocrisy!Gurbani is against hypocrisy, but Gurbani also clearly rejects eating meat. If you want, keep eating meat and eggs (menstrual waste), it's your wish.Bhul chuk maaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) Gurbani is against hypocrisy, but Gurbani also clearly rejects eating meat. If you want, keep eating meat and eggs (menstrual waste), it's your wish.Bhul chuk maafGurbai does not actually reject meat... this is waht I am saying... read the entire shabad... the lines saying let naam be your meat (etc just as a paraphrase) those SAME lines can be found saying let virtue be your ghee etc! Page 553, Line 4ਗੁਣ ਮੰਡੇ ਕਰਿ ਸੀਲੁ ਘਿਉ ਸਰਮੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਆਹਾਰੁ ॥Guṇ mande kar sīl gẖi▫o saram mās āhār.Make virtue your bread, good conduct the ghee, and modesty the meat to eat.So.... reading the above tuk, is Ghee allowed or is it rejected in Gurbani??? Notice meat is put into the VERY same line, indicating that they are on par as far as the message being delivered is concerned! Case in point the line above looks at first instance to be saying that bread, ghee and meat are all rejected in Gurbani. However, read the entire shabad and you will find that the message is not that these things are forbidden... but to live a imple life, with God in our minds. Don't become addicted to these things, or rely on life's pleasures... because the real pleasure is in finding God. Keeping that in mind, its not saying to avoid these things either... it's just giving the message not to revel in the pleasures of Maya. I am ot surprised and LOL'd at your comment about menstrual waste, because of your contributions on this site make your hatred and contempt of women or anything to do with women very very obvious... it's not wonder you would find something gross about it and use a term like 'menstrual waste' LOL LOL LOL Edited September 22, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 Gurbai does not actually reject meat... this is waht I am saying... read the entire shabad... the lines saying let naam be your meat (etc just as a paraphrase) those SAME lines can be found saying let virtue be your ghee etc! Page 553, Line 4ਗੁਣ ਮੰਡੇ ਕਰਿ ਸੀਲੁ ਘਿਉ ਸਰਮੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਆਹਾਰੁ ॥Guṇ mande kar sīl gẖi▫o saram mās āhār.Make virtue your bread, good conduct the ghee, and modesty the meat to eat. The above is talking about good conduct and modesty, not about the foods, which are forbidden.This tuk clearly rejects meat eating: ਕਬੀਰ ਭਾਂਗ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਸੁਰਾ ਪਾਨਿ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਖਾਂਹਿ ॥Kabeer, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wineਤੀਰਥ ਬਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਕੀਏ ਤੇ ਸਭੈ ਰਸਾਤਲਿ ਜਾਂਹਿ ॥੨੩੩॥- no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. ||233|| ਭਾਂਗ - means marijuana, chicken meat, etc.ਮਾਛੁਲੀ - means fish meat, etc.ਸੁਰਾ - means alcohol, etc.ਪਾਨਿ - means to drink, Supari (Areca nut), tobacco leaves, etc. Bhul chuk maaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) Sorry to say Paapiman, cow milk is actually meant for baby cows! You should be ashamed of yourself of attacking our Satgurus on a Sikh forum. If Satguru jee knew that cow milk was only meant for baby cows and not meant for human consumption, why would he allow it in langar? Did he make a mistake? You think, you are above God? Insulting Gurbani, Sikh ethic and now Sikh gurus on a Sikh forum. Utter shame on you. 1 hour ago, Satkirin_Kaur said:just to satisfy our wants for a product (milk) that human adults were never meant to consume anyway. (There is a reason why many people are lactose intolerant!) HUman babies were meant to consume human milk only and only in infancy! 1 hour ago, Satkirin_Kaur said:The milk was never 'meant for human consumption' as you stated. You have a seriously flawed line of thinking.Bhul chuk maaf Edited September 22, 2015 by paapiman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) You should be ashamed of yourself of attacking our Satgurus on a Sikh forum. If Satguru jee knew that cow milk was only meant for baby cows and not meant for human consumption, why would he allow it in langar? Did he make a mistake? You think, you are above God? Insulting Gurbani, Sikh ethic and now Sikh gurus on a Sikh forum. Utter shame on you. Bhul chuk maafFigures you still aren't understanding.... sorry, but you have a one track mind and are focusing on the wrong things.... So you think cows were put here only to provide milk for humans?? Its OBVIOUS that the milk produced is for the baby cow!!!!!!!! Since the only way for a cow to produce it is to become pregnant!!!!! Its the very same biology that humans have as we are both mammals!!! I never attacked Satguru Ji AT ALL.... I said its perfectly fine to consume milk... but that you cant then apply your argument to eggs (or even meat) LOLyou just cant understand what I and Neo were saying... you keep jumping back to saying we are rejecting milk lol.... you need to learn to read.... and stop attacking people and making baseless accusations when you can't back your claims! And learn to read and interpret entire Shabads and get the actual message!!! The 'Utter Shame' is that you are entirely missing the messages in shabads because you want to pick and choose single tuks to fit your agenda. And anyone who doesn't agree with you is 'anti gurmat' LOLBy the way that shabad you posted... read it's entirety. It's speaking against rituals being useless. Marijuana, fish, wine etc were used in rituals (by various Hindu sects, fish specifically is Bengali I think for one...) but the shabad is saying no matter what pilgramages, fasts and RITUALS they follow, they will still go to hell (if they do not find God within themselves) Then it goes on to even say that God resides in your heart, is in every grain of sand... God is not obtained through these worldy shows, rituals etc. You are once again, taking one liners OUT OF CONTEXT of the shabad and making them fit your needs! It's not saying don't eat meat... LOL. Edited September 22, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 Can we close this topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted September 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 Resounding yes, this going on for too long..This topic is locked but please feel free to message us to re-open it if you have anything ground breaking/significant/scriptural evidence to add both for or against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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