Pakhand of Ultra Jew orthodox in airline- these type of nutbars everywhere..!!!

[SAadmin]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/porter-airlines-seat-change-may-have-been-sparked-by-religious-accommodation-says-passenger-1.3171114

A former Halifax chef wants an apology from Porter Airlines, alleging she was asked to move from her seat to accommodate a man who did not want to sit beside a woman for religious reasons.

Christine Flynn, 31, said she was buckled in and waiting for Porter Airlines Flight 121 from Newark, N.J. to Toronto to take off early on Monday morning when an ultra-Orthodox Jewish man approached.

Christine Flynn believes she was asked to move from her assigned seat on a Porter Airlines flight because the man sitting next to her, an ultra-Orthodox Jew, did not want to sit next to a woman. She said the man did not speak to her directly or make eye contact. (CBC)

"He came down the aisle, he didn't actually look at me … or make eye contact. He turned to the gentleman across the aisle and said, 'Change.'"

Flynn said she was confused at first, wondering why the man was speaking to the other passenger and gesturing toward her. The man didn't speak to her directly, but Flynn said it's clear to her that he didn't want to sit next to her because she's a woman.

Flynn said she might have been willing to accommodate the man had he spoken to her directly and politely asked her to switch seats. She admits language may have been a factor — saying his English "wasn't terrific" — but said his refusal to even make eye contact was offensive.

 

"He could have made a plan, he could have put in a request," Flynn said in an interview Wednesday on CBC Radio's Metro Morning. "When someone doesn't look at you, and when someone doesn't acknowledge you as person because of your gender, you're a lot less willing to be accommodating.

"Leaving it to the last minute and expecting me to move is appalling. He's expecting me to fall in to that archetypical feminine role and acquiesce." 

'This is ridiculous'

When the first passenger refused to switch seats, the man then asked another passenger in the row behind to switch with her, she said.

Finally, she said, a flight attendant approached and asked if there was a problem. 

'I should not have to move because someone has a problem with my uterus.'- Christine Flynn

"I said, 'This man is refusing to sit next to me because I am a woman.' At that point, another man behind ... offered to switch with me and the airline attendant said, 'Would you be willing to move? and I said, 'Absolutely not. This is ridiculous,'" she said. "I was without words."

Eventually the man was seated next to another male passenger and the flight departed.

Religion 'rarely' a factor 

Flynn says she's frustrated she was asked to move and upset others on the flight were willing to help the man.

"I have a problem with that. He [the flight attendant] probably, maybe, didn't realize that asking a woman to move because the fact she had a uterus made the man next to her uncomfortable ... I don't think he even would have put it together that that's kind of insulting and maybe even discriminatory," she said.

"If someone had refused to sit next to me because I was gay and maybe they were some kind of old-school religion that doesn't like gay people no one would have switched with him. It would have been off the table," she said.

Porter Airlines spokesman Brad Cicero confirmed that the situation occurred but said the flight attendant "did his best to manage the situation as efficiently and reasonably as possible in order to avoid an unnecessary delay."

Porter does its best to accommodate seating preferences, he said in an email Tuesday.

"Most often, this involves families wanting to sit near each other, or something as simple as a passenger preferring a window seat. Religious preferences are very rarely a factor."

He said because the flight was almost full, there were limited options to move anyone.

Other passengers asked to assist

"Only a few seats were available, and no row was entirely unoccupied," Cicero said. "The flight attendant politely asked Ms. Flynn if she would be able to change seats. She declined, so the flight attendant began asking other passengers if they would be willing to assist. Someone did agree to move and it was not perceived to be a particularly contentious situation by the flight attendant."

Flynn said she hopes to hear from the airline.

"I'd like an apology," Flynn said. "There really should be a policy around this. If people are going to get on flights and demand that they sit next to someone of the same sex, there should be an area where they can go. I should not have to move because someone has a problem with my uterus."

 

According to an April 9 article in the New York Times, conflicts between ultra-Orthodox Jewish men and female passengers on flights are becoming more common, with several flights from New York to Israel being delayed or disrupted over the past year.

[SAadmin]

This is not first time this has happened:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/ultraorthodox-jews-cause-11hour-long-nightmare-on-board-flight-to-israel-9756899.html

 

Ultra-Orthodox Jews cause '11-hour long nightmare' on board flight to Israel

 

 

 

 

 

The Haredi passengers delayed the flight by refusing to sit next to women

LOULLA-MAE ELEFTHERIOU-SMITH

 

 

 

Friday 26 September 2014

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A A A

A flight from New York to Tel-Aviv descended into an “11-hour long nightmare” after ultra-orthodox Jewish passengers on board refused to sit next to women, delaying take-off and causing further disruption during the flight.

On Wednesday, the eve of Rosh Hashanah, the El Al flight to Israel was carrying a large number of ultra-Orthodox Jews intending to celebrate the Jewish New Year in Israel, alongside a number of secular Jews.

But the flight did not take off on time, according to Shalom Life, after a group of Haredi Jewish passengers refused to sit next to women, believing that men and women should be segregated.

“People stood in the aisles and refused to go forward,” a passenger on board the flight, Amit Ben-Natan, told the publication.

“Although everyone had tickets with seat numbers that they purchased in advance, they asked us to trade seats with them, and even offered to pay money, since they cannot sit next to a woman. It was obvious that the plane won’t take off as long as they’re standing in the aisles,” he said.

The Haredi passengers agreed to sit in their assigned seats for take-off, but one passenger described the overall experience as an “11-hour long nightmare,” referring to the difficulty before take-off and the ensuing disturbances on board, caused by the Haredi passengers “jumping out” of their seats when the fasten-seatbelt sign was switched off.

The airline said that “El Al does everything it can to give its passengers the best possible service all year-round.

“These days bring with them a peak in air traffic to Israel, and our crews on the ground and in the air are doing the best they can to address the needs and requests of all our travellers while trying not to fall behind schedule.”

In the UK, the ultra-Orthadox Jewish community in London has come under criticism in the streets of Stamford Hill, north London, after signs requesting women to walk on a certain side of the street were erected, promoting segregation for a Torah parade.

The posters were deemed “unacceptable” by Stamford Hill’s council and were removed. Further posters, erected by a local film-maker, stating “women, please feel free to walk wherever you want… it’s 2014”, were later recorded being removed by members of the Haredi community.

 

 

[SAadmin]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/cbsa-allowed-religious-travellers-to-avoid-female-guards-1.2730402

 

Canada Border Services Agency managers at Toronto's Pearson airport allowed a small group of Hindu priests to avoid screening by female border guards to comply with their religious beliefs, CBC News has learned.

A CBSA officer, outraged that such a request would be considered, spoke exclusively to CBC News about what happened at Pearson's Terminal 3 on the evening of Monday, July 28. Fearing she could be disciplined for speaking out, the officer spoke on the condition that her name and identity be withheld.

The officer said she and her colleagues — whose job involves screening passengers for entry into Canada after they arrive on international flights — were told before their shift not to switch work stations with other officers without first asking a supervisor.

"The reason given was that there were five individuals coming in who had requested only to be served by male officers," said the CBSA officer in an exclusive interview with CBC's Nil Koksal.

The five male travellers who made the request to CBSA are Hindu priests, called sadhus. Sadhus follow a strict lifestyle that requires them to avoid any contact with women.

Customs worker and local union president Mark Weber said many of his members are 'furious' that a group of travellers were allowed to avoid female border guards for religious reasons. (CBC )

When CBSA officers on shift that night asked their managers why the group's request was being accommodated, they were told the men were not allowed to have contact with women for religious reasons.

The CBSA officer told CBC News that managers took steps to ensure the sadhus were processed separately and were only interviewed by male officers.

'Everybody is upset' CBSA officer says

The officer said she and her colleagues are outraged such a request would be considered by CBSA management.

"Everybody is upset that this request was even entertained by the CBSA," she said. "People are saying 'What is next? If white supremacists come through, do we move all non-white officers from the line?'"

The officer said granting such a request could undermine border guards' efforts to prevent criminals, terrorists and illegal immigrants from entering the country.

"The nature of the request is offensive to me as a woman," she said. "You are a guest in my country. What do you mean you don't want to deal with me because I'm a woman? We are considered law enforcement officers. I can't imagine any police force entertaining something like that."

Customs worker and local union president Mark Weber said he's received complaints from members across the country about the incident at Pearson.

"This has turned into a big issue for a lot of people," he said. Weber also said he was personally involved in an almost identical incident four years ago.

Weber said his union is considering making a complaint to the Canadian Human Rights Commission and wants a meeting with CBSA managers to clarify the policy regarding such requests. 

CBC News put questions about the incident to federal Public Safety Minister Steven Blaney, whose office is responsible for CBSA.

A spokesman for Blaney said "we expect the CBSA to apply the same rules to all persons seeking entry to Canada." The spokesman also said the minister "has asked the CBSA to investigate these allegations and act accordingly."

The spokesman added that CBSA does not comment on how individual passengers are processed.

The CBSA officer speaking out said many of her colleagues — both male and female — are angry about the incident but afraid to speak out. She said CBSA's code of conduct forbids officers from speaking to the media without approval from management.

"People are very, very scared for their jobs," she said. "I had to think long and hard before I [came forward] because I hope to have a long career in front of me with many more years to go. I will not have one if they find out who I am."

[SAadmin]

From gurmat point of view - We don't beleive in that non sense kind of segregation, Guru maharaj has give us raj-yog-gristh jevan to engage in world yet de-attached all though some level of renunciation is allowed/parvan in gurmat but extreme renunciation is not  part of Gurmat not per Gurbani.

[Singh123456777]

Crazy Pakandh 

[Koi]

Just to play devil's advocate here, what about those who just are simply uncomfortable with being screened by the opposite gender? Do they not have the right to at least request as such? The seat thing was ridiculous, but the screening thing is not as black and white  (and this goes for both genders).

[kdsingh80]

From gurmat point of view - We don't beleive in that non sense kind of segregation, Guru maharaj has give us raj-yog-gristh jevan to engage in world yet de-attached all though some level of renunciation is allowed/parvan in gurmat but extreme renunciation is not  part of Gurmat not per Gurbani.

What about Amritdhari's who refuse to eat from the hand of non amritdhar's ?

[paapiman]

From gurmat point of view - We don't beleive in that non sense kind of segregation, Guru maharaj has give us raj-yog-gristh jevan to engage in world yet de-attached all though some level of renunciation is allowed/parvan in gurmat but extreme renunciation is not  part of Gurmat not per Gurbani.

Bro, the Jews might have been wrong in this case, but extreme asceticism and segregation of sexes have their place in Gurmat.

Examples of extreme asceticism - Srimaan Sant Baba Nand Singh jee Maharaaj Kaleranwale did not allow any of the Singhs in the jatha, to talk to any lady, other than one's sister and mother. Babajee also removed a Singh from the jatha for laughing. It is not very common among Sikhs, but it has its importance, especially in Jathas.

 

Segregation of sexes - Women and men sitting separately in Sangat is a good example. Extreme segregation might not be part of Gurmat, like for example, refusing to work with women, doing seva with them, etc. 

 

Additionally, Sikh men are not allowed to touch any woman, other than one's wife, mother and sister. That would imply -- not shaking hands, no patting, no hugging, etc. One can term that as extreme.

 

The below can be classified as extreme too.

 

What about Amritdhari's who refuse to eat from the hand of non amritdhar's ?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

 

 

Edited August 4, 2015 by paapiman

[SAadmin]

Just to play devil's advocate here, what about those who just are simply uncomfortable with being screened by the opposite gender? Do they not have the right to at least request as such? The seat thing was ridiculous, but the screening thing is not as black and white  (and this goes for both genders).

I agree with you veer, that should be done in very courteous considerate manner without inconvenience other passengers or hold line up as they say - as soon one of freedom of speech/freedom of religion infringes on other right's then there is a problem. For most part, usually ultra rigid religious types have no consideration for others who does not fit in their world view as they have very small world they live in, even smallest disagreement to their world from outside is seen an serious threat to their well being, they unfortunately live in fear.

I think as far as sikhi is concerned we have strict rules as well no doubt but our strict rules are not rigid its circumstantial, room for transcendence and flexibility. Our sharia is intertwined with tariqat, marfat and hakikat more intimately, more lucid flow blended together compare to other cultural other religious traditions where their shariat which is mass solid, rigid not connected with other levels which leaves no room for transcendence or flexibility.

Our dharam is off internal naam - not bound by outside external objects, situations, circumstances.Maharaj has given great transcendence updesh for us -

Sabh Karam Fokat Jan, Subh Dharam Nefal Maan. 

Bin Aik Naam Adhar, Subh Karam bharam bechar || (Sri Akaal Ustat)

Know all the Karmas (actions) as useless, consider all the religious rites are of no value. Without the prop of the only God’s Name, all the Karmas be considered as illusion.20.50

With that being said, its every sikh duty to defend people rights, regardless if its compatible nor compatible with gurmat.

[paapiman]

I think as far as sikhi is concerned we have strict rules as well no doubt but our strict rules are not rigid its circumstantial, room for transcendence and flexibility. Our sharia is intertwined with tariqat, marfat and hakikat more intimately, more lucid flow blended together compare to other cultural other religious traditions where their shariat which is mass solid, rigid not connected with other levels which leaves no room for transcendence or flexibility.

 

Bro, can you please provide an example? That would be great.

Thanks

Bhul chuk maaf

[SAadmin]

Gurbani example, Guru maharaj here redefines shariat, tariqat, marfat and hakikat religious framework towards higher reality - one pointedness. Uthanka states its a updesh to muslim but gurbani essence is eternal it applies to all as most religious people follow have similiar framework of their religion and often do get stuck at shariat, tariqat level:

 

Ang- 1083

 

saraa sareeath lae ka(n)maavahu ||

Let your practice be to live the spiritual life.

 

thareekath tharak khoj ttolaavahu ||

Let your spiritual cleansing be to renounce the world and seek God.

 

maarafath man maarahu abadhaalaa milahu hakeekath jith fir n maraa ||3||

Let control of the mind be your spiritual wisdom, O holy man; meeting with God, you shall never die again. ||3|

[kdsingh80]

I agree with you veer, that should be done in very courteous considerate manner without inconvenience other passengers or hold line up as they say - as soon one of freedom of speech/freedom of religion infringes on other right's then there is a problem. For most part, usually ultra rigid religious types have no consideration for others who does not fit in their world view as they have very small world they live in, even smallest disagreement to their world from outside is seen an serious threat to their well being, they unfortunately live in fear.

I think as far as sikhi is concerned we have strict rules as well no doubt but our strict rules are not rigid its circumstantial, room for transcendence and flexibility. Our sharia is intertwined with tariqat, marfat and hakikat more intimately, more lucid flow blended together compare to other cultural other religious traditions where their shariat which is mass solid, rigid not connected with other levels which leaves no room for transcendence or flexibility.

Our dharam is off internal naam - not bound by outside external objects, situations, circumstances.Maharaj has given great transcendence updesh for us -

Sabh Karam Fokat Jan, Subh Dharam Nefal Maan. 

Bin Aik Naam Adhar, Subh Karam bharam bechar || (Sri Akaal Ustat)

Know all the Karmas (actions) as useless, consider all the religious rites are of no value. Without the prop of the only God’s Name, all the Karmas be considered as illusion.20.50

With that being said, its every sikh duty to defend people rights, regardless if its compatible nor compatible witI don't get your point 

What is circumstance. Is it ok to remove kirpan if the circumstance is not allowing them to wear ? Is it O.K to cut hair because of circumstance? At present Sikhism is the religion that give most importance to outward appearance. . Any person with khulla dara and turban is considered as great follower of sikhism

[paapiman]

Any person with khulla dara and turban is considered as great follower of sikhism

Bro, Khulla dara and turban are bare minimum requirements to be called, as a Sikh.

Bhul chuk maaf

Edited August 5, 2015 by paapiman