paapiman Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) Sangat jee - If this Gyani Amritpal Singh believes that the so-called SRM is the right maryada, then there is a hypocrisy in his view. He says that the "ritual of holding a palla is created by people not by guru".In the so-called SRM itself, it is clearly mentioned that the girl has to hold the sash of the boy and the girl is suppose to follow the boy. Please have a look below: On one hand, this Gyani is referring to this so-called SRM (to support women in Panj Pyaray) and on the other hand, he is going against it. This might be hypocrisy. Bhul chuk maaf Edited October 9, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) Sangat jee - If this Gyani Amritpal Singh believes that the so-called SRM is the right maryada, then there is a hypocrisy in his view. He says that the "ritual of holding a palla is created by people not by guru".In the so-called SRM itself, it is clearly mentioned that the girl has to hold the sash of the boy and the girl is suppose to follow the boy. Please have a look below: On one hand, this Gyani (so-called) is referring to this so-called SRM (to support women in Panj Pyaray) and on the other hand, he is going against it. Isn't this hypocrisy? Bhul chuk maaf In fact he is not against SRM at all. All he said was the ritual of holding the palla was created by humans and not by Guru Ji - he said that Gurbani states we are ALL to hold the palla of Guru Ji and not any human. ...So from this holding the palla can only be taken in a symbolic context to illustrate this connection of human (all of us) to Guru. It is not an action designed to publicly make a statement of who becomes the 'doormat' in the marriage... but nice try Paapiman! If you wish to challenge him on it, please fell free to contact him you can easily Google his name... he also has a full Youtube Channel... Edited October 9, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted October 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Actually in all fairness, women should have been allowed at darbar sahib to do kirtan right after 3ho women were allowed to do kirtan at darbar sahib under supervision of baba nihal Singh Ji.I agree Neo, that it's unfair to stop females from doing kirtan at Sri Darbar Sahib, but that is not my point. This Giani says that females are allowed to do it so he should press his point. after all he is kashmeri, who have been allowing females to do Panj Pyare sewa, so why stop there? He should go to Sri darbar with a female jatha and ask to do kirtan as per the Panth Parwan RM, and see the response. Baba Nihal Singh never supervised the women bro, he protected them from the SGPC employeeswith his nihang jatha, so they backed down., Yes the same SGPC who's RM says that women can take part in any sewa in SIkhi. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) I agree Neo, that it's unfair to stop females from doing kirtan at Sri Darbar Sahib, but that is not my point. This Giani says that females are allowed to do it so he should press his point. after all he is kashmeri, who have been allowing females to do Panj Pyare sewa, so why stop there? He should go to Sri darbar with a female jatha and ask to do kirtan as per the Panth Parwan RM, and see the response. Baba Nihal Singh never supervised the women bro, he protected them from the SGPC employeeswith his nihang jatha, so they backed down., Yes the same SGPC who's RM says that women can take part in any sewa in SIkhi.He is not from Kashmir... Giani Amritpal Singh Ji is from Ludhiana but currently he is residing in UK. Also SGPC HAD taken the decision to allow women to do kirtan there, but DDT opposed it...http://www.sikhtimes.com/news_081805a.html Edited October 9, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted October 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Chatanga you just don't get it do you? Gurus were NOT humans that were 'chosen'. In fact all of the Gurus carried the same one light... The light they carried is irrelevant in this conversation. It's who it was passed to that is relevant. And that is even more hypocritical of you. The Gurus were the same light yet you insult the teachings of Guru Gobind Singh. Why? The ONE Guru chose to come to earth in a male form, in a time when females were seen so lowly that a female never would have been listened to or taken seriously, and then in that male form spread the message that females are equal. That is your own opinion, and it is not borne out by fact. If women would never have been listened to why were women in charge of some of the Manjis? What would have been better ? To say that women are equal in everything and deny them certain sewa ( as evidenced in your precious all-inclusive RM) or to delineate sewa and put it in practice as per "my" exclusive Taksal maryada? And yes it is related to caste because discrimination is discrimination it doesn't matter what the reason behind it is. your false argument does not stand on caste. Bhagat Kabir, Ravidas, Dhanna and Namdev. 18 years you claim?Why does this have to be repeated every other post? It's far more likely that Sukrit Kaur Bhenji has just not encountered the discrimination... she said she has never felt discriminated in her family. She has not said that she or her family follows DDT or similar ideology, or even which RM she follows. Yes cos you know all about her life.You are free to stay in your exclusionary version of Sikhi. I am free to follow mainstream. End of story... we have to part agreeing to disagree. I'm happy where things are laid out and followed, rather than talked about and ignored as per your RM and your Giani.Can you send me his number?As for Darbar Sahib it's atrocious how women are kept from kirtan, palki sahib seva, washing sanctum sanctorum etc when there is nothing stating they are disallowed. And you know who the biggest opposers are of women doing any seva there? DDT and Sant Samaj are the ones who lodged a complaint and kicked a stink when Akal Takht declared openly several years ago that women were not barred from kirtan there. If you think that Sant Samaj have that kind of control at Sri Darbar Sahib, the first thing they would have done was start re-reading of full Nitnem and Raagmala. How can Sant Samaj challenge Sri Akal Takht Sahib and any gurdwaras under its control? They can't. If they have then take your Gyani there and he can explain to them why.Actually though, a Bibi did do kirtan there indirectly (recently)... Bhai Sahib Bahi Nirmale Singh Khalsa Pipli Wale (artist) did kirtan there - with his sister Bibi Arvinder Pal Kaur backing him and she also did a shabad on her own. This was last year I think and they too caused a brief ruckus because I don't think anyone knew in advance that she was accompanying him.Surely Nirmal Singh knew that no offence had been committed as per the SGPC rm? (whether or not you agree with their background being neeldharis) fact is they both have amazing voices and kirtan is kirtan... So arrogant, assuming that i will agree or not with someone given their background. Its one of the reasons you are despised here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted October 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 He is not from Kashmir... Giani Amritpal Singh Ji is from Ludhiana but currently he is residing in UK. Ok so what is his number?Also SGPC HAD taken the decision to allow women to do kirtan there, but DDT opposed it...http://www.sikhtimes.com/news_081805a.htmlSo what if Taksal oppowsed it? Sri Darbar Sahib is not under their control. If it's written in RM it is ok to do it, isn't it? It's not in Taksals so why isn't SGPC implementing its own maryada that took 13 years and input from hundreds of Sikhs to form? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted October 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 In fact he is not against SRM at all. All he said was the ritual of holding the palla was created by humans and not by Guru Ji - he said that Gurbani states we are ALL to hold the palla of Guru Ji and not any human. ...So from this holding the palla can only be taken in a symbolic context to illustrate this connection of human (all of us) to Guru. so why hold his palla in your wedding? You wouldnt have lost your way around Guru Sahib would you? And what about your holding the palla controlling your husband like a potter controlling a donkey? Was that symbolic as well? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Is there any statement in any Rehatnama or Hukamnama by master, which prohibits women from doing Kirtan seva at Sri Harmandir Sahib jee?ThanksBhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 I have never insulted any teachings of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. I question whether or not "some writings" which are attributed to him are actually authentically written by him! BIG BIG BIG DIFFERENCE! Because if something was passed off as writing of our Gurus that wasn't really written by them, it would be just as much a crime as insulting their actual teachings would it not?? The light of the Guru was not PASSED to a human... the fact that you say 'who it was passed to' shows you are still thinking in terms of duality. You make it sound like all human males had a chance to be Guru like it was some competition. It wasn't because all ten were in fact the same ONE soul. There was no light like a torch that was passed to a different person. They were all one and the same. If the RM you follow is so fair, then in this delineation of seva where is the equally prominent seva reserved only for women? Surely if there is seva reserved only for males then there should be seva also reserved only for females which is equally high status?? The sheer fact that more rights are given to males than females is discrimination. You can dress it up and call it what you want it's still discrimination. And hate is a strong word... no Sikh should ever espouse hatred. Least of all to someone who is trying to advocate equality and message of ONEness. You can Google Giani Ji's name and find his info. I'm not posting his contact info on here for him to be attacked by you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Where does Baba Hari Singh Ji say that a woman can NEVER do seva of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji? I don't think he said that at all. Satkiran is somebody who never actually listened to baba hari Singh cause she can't understand punjabi. She just reads other peoples posts and thinks they are right. He said that bibi's can do seva of maharaj Ji just not when they are on their period. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted October 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 I have never insulted any teachings of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. I question whether or not "some writings" which are attributed to him are actually authentically written by him! BIG BIG BIG DIFFERENCE!No you doubted them. You supoorted the heretics openly. I bet you never in heart fought forgiveness from Guru Sahib for your heresy, nor have you been brave enough to admit that you were wrong, as were the others about Sri Dasam Granth.That is the BIG BIG BIG DIFFERENCE!Because if something was passed off as writing of our Gurus that wasn't really written by them, it would be just as much a crime as insulting their actual teachings would it not??The crime was that you supported the heretics because of your personal mentality. The Panth has never questioned Sri Dasam Granth being the work of Guru Sahib. Only heretics in the last 100 odd years have doubted it. If you didn't know then you shouldnt have written in support of the heretics. The light of the Guru was not PASSED to a human... the fact that you say 'who it was passed to' shows you are still thinking in terms of duality. You make it sound like all human males had a chance to be Guru like it was some competition. Was Bhai Lehna given the Gurgaddi, or did he prove himself worthy of it. You could learn a lesson or two from Bhai Lehna's dedication to the word of Baba Nanak. Nothing was EVER refuted, or doubted, even if it didn't make sense to Bhai Lehna. Yet here you are, having doubted Guru's words and probably in your heart still do. It's called laying your false intellect at the Guru's feet and asking for the true knowledge. It wasn't because all ten were in fact the same ONE soul. There was no light like a torch that was passed to a different person. They were all one and the same.NO they weren't. They were 10 different bodies united by One light. Guru Gobind Singh has said "Gurgaddi passed as a candle lights another candle". If the RM you follow is so fair,I don't follow it, I'm not a member of the Taksal. And hate is a strong word... no Sikh should ever espouse hatred. Least of all to someone who is trying to advocate equality and message of ONEness.You light matches, be prepared for fires. You are not trying to advocate equality and message of oneness. You are trying to advocate your own message of what you think Sikhi is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted October 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 You can Google Giani Ji's name and find his info. I'm not posting his contact info on here for him to be attacked by you.Well don't hold him up on pedestal as the only beacon of truth on Sikhi.On the other hand you are welcome to Hari Singh's number if you wish to ask him any question. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 This is the only giani amritpal Singh ludhiana vale I found. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Satkiran yes DDT did oppose bibi's doing Kirtan at darbar sahib but it was up to akal takhat and not up to DDT to make a decision. AKal takhat NOT DDT made the decision to not allow bibi's to do Kirtan. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Satkiran is somebody who never actually listened to baba hari Singh cause she can't understand punjabi. She just reads other peoples posts and thinks they are right. He said that bibi's can do seva of maharaj Ji just not when they are on their period.I'm not talking about the recent videos, I was referring to the original katha he did a few years ago... and though I was not there I know someone who was there in person. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Satkiran yes DDT did oppose bibi's doing Kirtan at darbar sahib but it was up to akal takhat and not up to DDT to make a decision. AKal takhat NOT DDT made the decision to not allow bibi's to do Kirtan. Under duress from both DDT and Sant Samaj. You light matches, be prepared for fires.You are not trying to advocate equality and message of oneness. You are trying to advocate your own message of what you think Sikhi is.No I am following Sikh Rehet Maryada, which says that males and females deserve equal treatment and opportunity and agrees 100% with Gurbani. SRM is the only RM accepted by Akal Takht so anyone supporting it should not be ostracized like you guys have been doing, while pushing the RM of a jatha which is not accepted and doe snot agree with Gurbani. (and yes I disagree with Akal Takht not enforcing it at Darbar Sahib. In fact what they are doing does not fall in line with any RM that I know of.) Anyway I am getting tired... none of you will ever change your minds anyway and you will always see me as just another woman who won't accept her place as lower than you. I don't really care... do what you want. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) Is there any statement in any Rehatnama or Hukamnama by master, which prohibits women from doing Kirtan seva at Sri Harmandir Sahib jee?ThanksBhul chuk maaf If there is no Rehatnama or Hukamnama by master, which prohibits women from doing Kirtan seva at Sri Harmandir Sahib jee, then they must be allowed to do this seva; as long as they don't do it, when they are on their periods (hygiene protocol).Gurparsaad, Daas will try to make a detailed post regarding menstruation and Sikhism.Bhul chuk maaf Edited October 9, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) If there is no Rehatnama or Hukamnama by master, which prohibits women from doing Kirtan seva at Sri Harmandir Sahib jee, then they must be allowed to do this seva; as long as they don't do it when on their periods (hygiene protocol).Gurparsaad, Daas will try to make a detailed post regarding menstruation and Sikhism.Bhul chuk maafYou do know there exists hygiene products which prevent any blood from coming out so there is no hygiene issue at all... it's not the dark ages where people didn't have hygiene products and just let the blood run out freely on their clothes... Or else no woman would be able to go out in public for a few days every month LOL at least you now admit it was never a "spiritual impurity" issue... yet that is what Hari Singh Randhawa was calling it. Hygiene is essential for everyone... wash your hands, wear hygiene products if needed... its not rocket science. Besides who's going to check every female going to do seva to see if they are on their period?? LOL Edited October 9, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 I'm not talking about the recent videos, I was referring to the original katha he did a few years ago... and though I was not there I know someone who was there in person. Hahahaha stop lying. The video in question is from the 90s lol. And you knew somebody who was there from the 90s? Stop lying Satkiran. Wow Satkiran you have stooped to a new low. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted October 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 I'm not talking about the recent videos, I was referring to the original katha he did a few years ago... and though I was not there I know someone who was there in person.haven't you learnt the lesson from relying on others views too much? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koi Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Firstly, I don't think Baba Hari Singh ji has said that anywhere. If he has, please send us the link. Secondly, as much as I respect DDT, I do not agree with their opinion to ban women from doing sukhasan sewa in harmandir sahib. That's just wrong. I don't think Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji would have approved of such a thing... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted October 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 No I am following Sikh Rehet Maryada, which says that males and females deserve equal treatment and opportunity and agrees 100% with Gurbani. SRM is the only RM accepted by Akal Takhtso what does that tell you about the SGPC? and the RM? They only give lip-service to it, and use Sant Samaj as an excuse.As you have said, majority of panth follows RM so why worry about Sant Samaj? Try reading between the lines if you can. If you brain can come up with trash like it has you shouldnt have much trouble there. Under duress from both DDT and Sant Samaj. Just an excuse. Someone convenient to blame.Sant Samaj and Taksal are both against Purewals fraud calendar. Did that get stopped ? No. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted October 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Secondly, as much as I respect DDT, I do not agree with their opinion to ban women from doing sukhasan sewa in harmandir sahib. That's just wrong. I don't think Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji would have approved of such a thing...Taksal do not have the clout to change anything at Sri Darbar Sahib. If they did, the first thing they would change would be to read full Rehras and Raagmala. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Taksal do not have the clout to change anything at Sri Darbar Sahib. If they did, the first thing they would change would be to read full Rehras and Raagmala. they read Raag Mala at darbar sahib. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Hahahaha stop lying. The video in question is from the 90s lol. And you knew somebody who was there from the 90s? Stop lying Satkiran. Wow Satkiran you have stooped to a new low.I'm not talking about a video at all.... I'm talking about when he was in Surrey a few years ago. There is no video... I'm not referring to any videos 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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