Respect for SGPC maryada

[paapiman]

On 10/10/2015, 4:26:58, Ragmaala said:

So what do you mean bro ?  that Manukh only means Man ?

Bro, let me confirm this with a scholar. Most likely, it does. Female body is a type of Maya. It cannot be classified as a Manukhi Deh. Maya are of two types - Kanchan (wealth) and Kamini (women) or Jarr (wealth) and Chaytan (women). You might already be aware that a female body is considered as a downgrade to a male body in Gurbani.

• One tuk states that a man, who worships Maya, becomes a woman in his next birth.
• Another tuk states that a person who thinks about women towards the end of his life, becomes a prostitute (female body) in his next birth.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

 

Edited November 22, 2015 by paapiman

[paapiman]

And Gurbani is only for man ?

Bro, Gurbani can be used for the benefit of all beings, including plants, animals, bhoot, pret, etc.

Bhul chuk maaf

[kdsingh80]

eunuchs/ transgenders have kaam too. 

 

Transgenders and eunuch's are different. How can Eunuch have kaam when thier sexual organs  are chopped at early age?

It could be mental kaam after watching so many people around you but if an eunuch goes to lonely place and do bhagti then there is hardly any chance kaam can hit him

[kdsingh80]

Caretakers can be anyone. I was speaking of creation of life.  They have already proven two eggs can create life, where two sperms can't.  Caretaking only takes someone who is a genuine and caring person.  As far as testosterone, all I said was that it creates obstacles to men that women do not have... extra anger, rage, sex drive etc.  
And yes, women often choose the most successful males.  Especially if they are in a society where females are kept from working / participating in society themselves directly.  It's actually that set up which causes it. So men created their own bed as far as that goes.  If women are kept from being able to compete amongst themselves and even men, then the only way they can gain any status is by living on the laurels of their husband... so of course they will choose the most successful males.  If women are allowed in the workforce, and compete directly, using their OWN merits, they are less likely to only go for the most successful guys... maybe instead she has the good career, high status etc.  But anyway, it's only ever been a means to achieve a status using someone else's status to live off of...  hey look I married a millionaire,  and now I am a millionaire and I didn't have to do anything work myself type of thing... and yes I hate those women.

Not true I can show you plenty of examples where  high earning bollywood actresses marry industrialists, actor, producers etc but it is a rare exception when they marry some struggling actor , even though personality wise the struggling actor is 10 times better than those. these actresses have millions in their bank account yet they marry a very successful man or remain single but unsuccesful man is strict no no

[Ragmaala]

Transgenders and eunuch's are different. How can Eunuch have kaam when thier sexual organs  are chopped at early age?

It could be mental kaam after watching so many people around you but if an eunuch goes to lonely place and do bhagti then there is hardly any chance kaam can hit him

Guru ji says  bind rakh jo tariya bhai khusre kyun na paramgat pai :  If one could be salvated saving semen then how come khusra does not get salvated automatically.

If balls are castrated, as in the case of eunuch, ...not sure about kaam in that person. I dont have answer to that.

Edited October 10, 2015 by Ragmaala

[kdsingh80]

Guru ji says  bind rakh jo tariya bhai khusre kyun na paramgat pai :  If one could be salvated saving semen then how come khusra does not get salvated automatically.

 

Guru ji is talking about brhamchari's sadhu's who are very egoistic that because of their brahamcharya they can get salvation . but still Eunuch's have advantage in bhagti as they know or very little sex desire so they just have to control lobh , moh ahankar , krodh and because of very less testosterone they have advantage in controlling krodh too

[CdnSikhGirl]

This is hilarious.  Female form is now a downgrade to a male form eh?  Perhaps if men started to think higher of women, then the prospect of becoming a woman would not be seen as a punishment or downgrade eh?  Think about it... what is is about being reborn as a female that repulses you Paapiman?  It's purely because of how YOU perceive women in the here and NOW.  Change your perception of women, instead of seeing us as half humans, and not even here (Maya)??  really?? Start seeing the divine light in EVERY HEART and maybe the prospect of being reborn as female is not a punishment then or some sort of downgrade.  Its like the low caste... is there something inherently wrong with their bodies? Nope. Its the perception from others and how they are treated.  If all of a sudden all Hindus refused to follow caste system and saw all humans as equal, then would there be any more fear of being reborn into a lower caste?? Nope!  So to the man who thinks only of women (as sexual objects) the worst punishment would be to be reborn into that role.  Because he was obsessed with treating women as mere objects and using them... then he too will feel how it is to be used and thought of in that light.  If instead a man revered women as equal partners in the journey to find God,... then there is no punishment, no downgrade... as he already sees women as just as good as himself.  So it would not be a bad thing.  And let me tell you... you are already on the right track to being reborn into a female body probably born into a culture where women are treated like dirt and abused.  Because that's how you see women now, and its almost to the point of obsession.

 

[CdnSikhGirl]

Not true I can show you plenty of examples where  high earning bollywood actresses marry industrialists, actor, producers etc but it is a rare exception when they marry some struggling actor , even though personality wise the struggling actor is 10 times better than those. these actresses have millions in their bank account yet they marry a very successful man or remain single but unsuccesful man is strict no no

Bollywood is not reality LOL.  There, it's about status... in Hollywood here too.  It's about who marries the highest status actor.  It goes the other way too... the males marry the best looking, most successful female actresses too for the same reason... to say "see what I got" 

[Ragmaala]

Guru ji is talking about brhamchari's sadhu's who are very egoistic that because of their brahamcharya they can get salvation . but still Eunuch's have advantage in bhagti as they know or very little sex desire so they just have to control lobh , moh ahankar , krodh and because of very less testosterone they have advantage in controlling krodh too

Ok I agree that they might have a decrease in lust due to removal of testes physically or chemically but loss of testosterone also brings a multitude of other problems like loss of muscle mass, increased body fat, osteoporotic bones, decreased strength, vitality, vigor and decreased confidence living in society. Giving rise to other mental and psychosocial problems.So not sure eunuchs necessarily have an advantage over a human or woman when it comes to spirituality.

Edited October 10, 2015 by Ragmaala

[kdsingh80]

Bollywood is not reality LOL.  There, it's about status... in Hollywood here too.  It's about who marries the highest status actor.  It goes the other way too... the males marry the best looking, most successful female actresses too for the same reason... to say "see what I got" 

Bollywood is an example , in other fields too women choose the succesful one even if they have fame money etc.  but you will need a torch to find when a very successful women  marry unsuccessful man. though many remain single even in bollywood and in other fields but turn down unsuccessful men

[CdnSikhGirl]

Guru ji is talking about brhamchari's sadhu's who are very egoistic that because of their brahamcharya they can get salvation . but still Eunuch's have advantage in bhagti as they know or very little sex desire so they just have to control lobh , moh ahankar , krodh and because of very less testosterone they have advantage in controlling krodh too

This is true. And why I find the idea that women could be seen as 'half humans' funny. Because ALL fetuses in the womb start out as female.  Female is the default gender.  It's only when a fetus is bathed in testosterone that it turns into male.  And it's not because of some thing that females do not posses. In fact the testosterone comes from the MOTHERS own body, along with all the building blocks to build the baby's body.  The only thing which comes from the male sperm (regarding gender) is the 'instruction' through one gene called SRY which switches on the testosterone bath.  Once the baby is born, this SRY gene doesn't do anything else... 
Bringing me to my next point.  The only thing which differentiates male and female is testosterone.  Females who wish to become males, they are put on testosterone, and over time they grow facial hairs, their muscles become larger, they gain strength... and also they increase sexual desire, become angry easily etc. Their actual body structure changes over time, and becomes less curvy, voice deepens, more body hair etc.  The obvious differences - genetalia, since they are fully formed in the womb, can not change at that point (to a degree) so they require surgery. But then, after surgery, they are effectively the other gender.  All of the changes that normally happened in the womb to the embryo from being exposed to testosterone, happen by a female being given testosterone except the more complicated things which require 'assembly' in the womb... and surgery can change that.  Similarly, a male wanting to become female, its done by inhibiting you guessed it... testosterone.  And then his body undergoes similar changes becoming curvy, his voice becomes higher pitched, he loses facial and body hair etc.  In both instances, the same soul the same consciousness that was there prior to initiating the change is the same as after.  This is pretty much proof that the body is just a vehicle. And ALL BODIES are part of Maya.  They are ALL FALSE.  

[Ragmaala]

^

Every woman wants an ideal man who is handsome, tall, and successful in his career.

For a man, it is very important to have a career in order to get married.

For a woman, it does not matter, she could be really beautiful without a career & a rich guy could marry her.

But a man atleast needs to have good finance, if not good looks, to get married.

[CdnSikhGirl]

^

Every woman wants an ideal man who is handsome, tall, and successful in his career.

For a man, it is very important to have a career in order to get married.

For a woman, it does not matter, she could be really beautiful without a career & a rich guy could marry her.

But a man atleast needs to have good finance, if not good looks, to get married.

Thats only because men objectify women as sex objects... 

[Ragmaala]

This is true. And why I find the idea that women could be seen as 'half humans' funny. Because ALL fetuses in the womb start out as female.  Female is the default gender.  It's only when a fetus is bathed in testosterone that it turns into male.  And it's not because of some thing that females do not posses. In fact the testosterone comes from the MOTHERS own body, along with all the building blocks to build the baby's body.  The only thing which comes from the male sperm (regarding gender) is the 'instruction' through one gene called SRY which switches on the testosterone bath.  Once the baby is born, this SRY gene doesn't do anything else... Bringing me to my next point.  The only thing which differentiates male and female is testosterone.  Females who wish to become males, they are put on testosterone, and over time they grow facial hairs, their muscles become larger, they gain strength... and also they increase sexual desire, become angry easily etc. Their actual body structure changes over time, and becomes less curvy, voice deepens, more body hair etc.  The obvious differences - genetalia, since they are fully formed in the womb, can not change at that point (to a degree) so they require surgery. But then, after surgery, they are effectively the other gender.  All of the changes that normally happened in the womb to the embryo from being exposed to testosterone, happen by a female being given testosterone except the more complicated things which require 'assembly' in the womb... and surgery can change that.  Similarly, a male wanting to become female, its done by inhibiting you guessed it... testosterone.  And then his body undergoes similar changes becoming curvy, his voice becomes higher pitched, he loses facial and body hair etc.  In both instances, the same soul the same consciousness that was there prior to initiating the change is the same as after.  This is pretty much proof that the body is just a vehicle. And ALL BODIES are part of Maya.  They are ALL FALSE.  

Your theory is flawed in the following sense:

Determination of Sex truly depends on the Male:

Male decides if his child will be female or male.

A female has only one choice of X.

Whereas a male has two choices : X and Y

And sry only works if male gave Y in the first place.

So male trumps female here once again.

Edited October 10, 2015 by Ragmaala

[amardeep]

Bro, let me confirm this with a scholar. Most likely, it does. Female body is a type of Maya. It cannot be classified as a Manukhi Deh. Maya are of two types - Kanchan (wealth) and Kamini (women) or Jarr (wealth) and Chaytan (women). You might already be aware that a female body is considered as a downgrade to a male body in Gurbani.

• One tuk states that a man, who worships Maya, becomes a woman in his next birth.
• Another tuk states that a person who thinks about women towards the end of his life, become a prostitute (female body) in his next birth.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

 

I think you need to take some time out and start working on ways to research Gurbani. You definately need to look into the whole "the letter of the word" vs "the spirit of the word":.. You can't read Gurbani like that!

[Ragmaala]

And once the male gonads develop in the fetus, they kick the shit of Mullerian organs by releasing the Mullerian Inhibiting factor .

So males are already kicking females ass while they are still fetus.

 

[amardeep]

 

So males are already kicking females ass while they are still fetus.

 

LOL

[Ragmaala]

satkirin,

you say 2 females can make a baby, lets see this happens, they can only make a girl.

however a male has the power to give either a female or male baby, once again male is superior.  

note : this is in context of your argument only. in reality i dont consider man or woman superior over one another or woman as a half body

Edited October 10, 2015 by Ragmaala

[CdnSikhGirl]

Your theory is flawed in the following sense:

Determination of Sex truly depends on the Male:

Male decides if his child will be female or male.

A female has only one choice of X.

Whereas a male has two choices : X and Y

And sry only works if male gave Y in the first place.

So male trumps female here once again.

The male determines the gender but only because of that SRY gene and all it does as I explained is turn on a switch that tells the Mother's body to bathe the fetus in testosterone.  That's all it does. That gene's sole purpose is to do that.  The Y chromosome only has 27 genes.  The X chromosome is the key to life.  Two XX can create life but not two YY.  Female trumps male.  If men die out, women can still have children and yes they will always be female.  But two males can NEVER have a baby.  A male can only make a baby at all if he does so with a female!

And ALL fetuses start out female... the Y chromosome all it does is turn on that switch telling the Mothers body to add testosterone.  So even testosterone itself is created in the female body.  The entire male body is CREATED by the female body... assembled by material which comes directly from the Mother's own body.  Again, female trumps male! 

 

satkirin,

you say 2 females can make a baby, lets see this happens, they can only make a girl.

however a male has the power to give either a female or male baby, once again male is superior.  

note : this is in context of your argument only. in reality i dont consider man or woman superior over one another or woman as a half body

A male can determine sex only by the above and only with a woman... a man can not make a baby at all without a woman!!! two women however, can. Here is the science behind it and note the article is from 2003, since then the 'technical snags' have actually been rectified and its been done with mice, and the babies survived to be born and thrive.
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2003/aug/28/genetics.genderissues

Edited October 10, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur

[paapiman]

I think you need to take some time out and start working on ways to research Gurbani. You definately need to look into the whole "the letter of the word" vs "the spirit of the word":.. You can't read Gurbani like that!

Daas would rather depend on Gurmukhs and saint-scholars, rather than come up with my own stupid ways (Manmat).

Bhul chuk maaf

[CdnSikhGirl]

Daas would rather depend on Gurmukhs and saint-scholars, rather than come up with my own stupid ways (Manmat).

Bhul chuk maaf

Even if they are leading you down the wrong path?? Sometimes you just have to look at the map yourself...

[Ragmaala]

satkirin,

let me do a quick bio review for you lol

gametes are haploid

sperm is a gamete

ovum is a gamete

haploid = 23

a human body cell is a diploid 46 chromosomes, 23 pairs

when the union of a sperm + ovum happens = zygote

zygote has 23 mother chromosomes,  23 father chromosomes

thus , the genetic contribution from both parents is equal. 23 chromosome from each. so female is not the sole contributor.

so male is as responsible as a female in the survival of the zygote developing into a female.

and as for female doing all the showering with testosterone or not. well that is the females job, she is a laborer in the factory, and male is the boss who tells her whether to make a male or female baby. i know that father is a mean boss and poor female has to do all the work.

But thats what masters do right, they tell their slaves to do all the work lol.  while they go impregnating other females.

 

 

[Ragmaala]

a female can make only one baby in 9 months

but a male can potentially make X * 270 babies in the same month. Lets say a male impregnates 4 different women a day, taking in account avg man stamina, he can potentially make 4*270 = 1080 babies in the same amount of time. 

I am talking about real physically possible phenomenon, not some theories which are only tested in mice.

So guess who is the winner in terms of evolutionary gene spreading ? obviously the male. lol

[Ragmaala]

satkirin,

dont think u can bully someone here by throwing random scientific terms into believing and spreading your feminist superiority, we all have degrees in science here,

in real life , you may not encounter someone to challenge your beliefs, but here none of your loose comments will go un-answered.

ciao

[CdnSikhGirl]

satkirin,

let me do a quick bio review for you lol

gametes are haploid

sperm is a gamete

ovum is a gamete

haploid = 23

a human body cell is a diploid 46 chromosomes, 23 pairs

when the union of a sperm + ovum happens = zygote

zygote has 23 mother chromosomes,  23 father chromosomes

thus , the genetic contribution from both parents is equal. 23 chromosome from each. so female is not the sole contributor.

so male is as responsible as a female in the survival of the zygote developing into a female.

and as for female doing all the showering with testosterone or not. well that is the females job, she is a laborer in the factory, and male is the boss who tells her whether to make a male or female baby. i know that father is a mean boss and poor female has to do all the work.

But thats what masters do right, they tell their slaves to do all the work lol.  while they go impregnating other females.

 

 

Yup, you you know basic biology... now replace the male's 23 with another female... You get the same genetic contribution from the nucleus of another egg instead of a sperm.  Yes the baby will always be female.... but then that's the point I am trying to show isn't it? That men are not absolutely required to propagate the species, while women are.  Meaning the male Y could die off (as they are predicting in 125,000 or so years) and the human race could still survive with ALL HUMANS BEING FEMALE - using one egg to extract the information contained in the nucleus to fertilize the other egg.  The result is still life, with two female parents.  It's not being able to determine gender that makes one superior but the ability to still propagate without even requiring the other!! And even presently, male are just sperm donors. (most anyway) unless they actually participate in raising their own children equally.  Which they should... children benefit most if BOTH parents interact with them equally.