Gupt Singh Posted August 17, 2003 Report Share Posted August 17, 2003 since i was a little peed off with the sikhism uncovered section, plus all the questions were poor, im making my own islam thread - not part of any other one tho since theres alot of qs 1. (its always the first ) what do muslims have to say about mohammeds marriage to the 6 year old ayesha, consumating the marriage at 9, when he was 54, according to saheeh bukhari, the most respected hadiths? is this not peadophilia? 2. how can the quran claim to be divine when it wasnt even written by mohammed, rather by his followers afterwards, who burnt copies of the quran (the supposed 6 other versions) which werent the same? 3. if the quran is infallible why has the "surah like it" challenge been met, numerous numerical mistakes (inheritance) numerous scientific mistakes (flat earth, stars are missiles to ward off jinns, sun sets in a muddy ditch, embryos made from a clot of blood, people can hear ants talking), as well as historical errors (eg jesuss death, date of abraham building kabah, and many others) grammatical errors (so many they cant be discussed) and many words which mean that the average muslim cannot understand, despite the quran claiming it is easy to understand for all? 4. if the quran claims that god has protected it from corruption or being changed, why is rashid khalifah's (number 19 cult guy) quran with missing parts of a surah, in large circulation? 5. what do muslims think of mohammed allowing 4 wives for his men, then allowing himself 14, only to bring another "revalation" supposedly allowing the prophet more? 6. if islam is divinely inspired, why did mohammed command that the "fitrah", or natural form, is totally un-natural - plucking armpits, shaving pubs (but for some reason not touching eyebrows) and "doing the opposite of what the pagans do"? 7. if mohammed was a prophet, why could he not tell when a jewess gave him poisoned meat (which was ironically a test to SEE if he was a prophet) so he died a slow death over a long period of time? 8. why do muslims pray in the direction of the kabaah (dont say to unify the muslims) when it was previously used by the pagans? why do muslims kiss the stone at mecca (mohammed did it also) and do "stoning the devil"? 9. how can muslims believe prophet mohammed split the moon in half when there is not another witness in the entire world to this fact? 10. how can muslims imprison women under veils (dont say it "liberates" them, there are ways to dress modestly without wearing a tent) as an excuse that if htey do not then people will rape and harrass them? are muslim men so depraved that they will go mad if they see a womans face? 11. why are there so many strange rituals in islam, for example, washing ones hands 7 times (one with earth, mind) after touching a wet (usually black) dog? 12. why is prayer invalidated if a women, donkey or black dog passes in front of a muslim? this is all documented in the sahih hadith and even shown on the Islam Q and A website. 13. how can islamic law be deemed fair when people have their hands cut off for stealing? or death for adultery? this is not fixing hte problem at the root, but imposing draconian measures to curb peoples problems elsewhere. 14. why is apostacy punishable by death? moreso, Islam Q and A website claims that apostacy can even be constituted by not doing prayers! 15. how can mohammed claim half his revalations were abrogated (eg 2:106 in quran).....does god change his mind overnight? more to come :) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 SUNNI ISLAM IS NOT REAL ISLAM. I reiterate my question to you Khalsa Soulja, where did you study classical arabic, fiqh and sira to be able to talk about Islam? :evil: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gupt Singh Posted August 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 sunni islam is the REAL islam......shia sufi and whatnot are all toned down, nicer version of islam! i reiterate my answer to you, mr lallehsvari, i didnt study arabok, i just know all hte bad stuff about it! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 Whatb is your proof that Sunni Islam is the real Islam?Anyone having studied Islamic history knows that the Pophet gave his gaddi to Imam Ali but that the Sunni khalifs stole it from him!!! everyone knows that the Prophet clearly predicted the coming of the Sunni fake Muslims, as well as the tragedy of Karbala, Everyone knows that he only consumated mariage with Aysha when she was much older and not at an early age like the SUnni say. the fact is SHIA ISLAM IS THE REAL ISLAM. LAANAN ILLAHI WA MUNAFIQUN UL AHL UL BAYT check: www.molaali.com www.al-imam.net Ya ALi madad mushkil kusha Ali 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gupt Singh Posted August 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 im getting hte impression your an undercover shia! Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310: 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old. Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64 Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death). Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65 Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)' Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88 Narrated 'Ursa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death). Sahih Bukhari 5.236. Narrated Hisham's father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old. Sahih Bukhari 5.234 Narrated Aisha: The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 41, Number 4915, also Number 4915 and Number 4915 Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. according to Bishr's version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter. Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151 Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3311 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old. you dont want any more hadith refences do u? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 These are Sunni sources which have been proved wrong by all major Shia and even Sunni scholars! I reiterate my question: WHAT IS YOUR PROOF FOR IMAM ALI NOT BEING THE TRUE SUCCESOR OF THE PROPHET (pbuh). COME ONE KHALSA SOULJA WHERE IS THE PROOF? :twisted: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gupt Singh Posted August 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 1st, whos imam ali? n also, there are seperate hadiths for sunnis and shias? how comes i never heard of shia 1s? saheeh bukhari are saheeh (strong) - the most reliable hadiths! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaNaDiAn_jAtTi Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 The way that Imam's work is as such... When the prophet was about to die he named someone as the next Prophet in line... and he also mentioned that the Imam"ship" would go to the person who the Imam himself would name, not necessarily the first born... however, most firstborn sons felt that they would always become the next Imam, but the split between Shia's and Sunni's came intially rite after Mohammed past away... but the split between Shia's and Ismaili occurred later on... and hence Ismaili's still have an Imam to date... The splits usually occurred when the first born thought he'd get it and had a following of ppl, but the Imam would name the younger son... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 Great jobs guys!!!!.. I hope more people will join in to clear mr khalsa soulja's misconceptions on islam 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 Sorry to tell you this Khalsa Soulja but Bukhari is full of fake hadith!!! Seems you still have to learn about real Islam! :twisted: You don't even know who Imam Ali (as) is and you want to start a conversation on islam! ridiculous indeed! :twisted: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaNaDiAn_jAtTi Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 Out of curiosity, I was wondering what most ppl think of Ismaili muslims. as most sunni's and shia's don't really consider them muslim... and ismaili's believe they are true because they still have the lineage of Imams... so what does everyone out there think? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 Ismailis are shias but have another lineage. They're to Shias what Namdharis are to us! their philosophical writings are fantastic, see the work of Henry Corbin! by the way there are links between Shias and Sikhs! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 About the sufism, is sufism sect within islam?? Sufism is also very related with concepts of sikhism I guess sufism could be related with udhasis sikhs. Because they beleive in isiolation i guess... http://www.sikhs.org/relig_su.htm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 a bit too simple N3O singh. Sufism is like a current going through Sunni and Shia Islam although it orginally came from Shiasm. Sunni Sufism if you want is deteriorated Shiism. It's not true that Sufism preaches isolation. Some sufi orders do, others don't... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaNaDiAn_jAtTi Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 Interesting... would there be any website where khalsa Soulja's questions could be posted, cuz it would be very interesting to see what type of responses one would get to these questions... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 they've been refuted may times and I sincerely think that Khalsa Soulja's post was a waste of time... :roll: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaNaDiAn_jAtTi Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 I know, but it still would be fun to see the Muslims try to come up with some sadistic reason why it works.... I know i'm kinda sad... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 Well I would not advice Khalsa Soulja to do that. he might find himslef eating carrots from the root! :twisted: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gupt Singh Posted August 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 urmmmmmmm hold up when i say "muslim" i mean sunni muslim.....becuz its sunni muslims that are a threat to the planet! what i have gathered is generally sufis and shias are safe.....but these questions are aimed at hte sunnis who are intent on destroying sikhi in the uk..........c? if "everyone" knows the shias are right, why are shias in a tiny minority? yeh k, they might be right in terms of what mo was really like, but the islam now (predominatly sunni) is the one which will pose a threat in the near future when they try and take over the world btw....those questions havent been refuted, if you are a sunni you take sahih bukhari as the most reliable hadith, and hence all the questions pose quite a problem. hell even if you are a shia, the mathematical problem of the inheritance section in the quran, and even some of the scientific absurdities, CANNOT be refuted. anyways....since u seem 2 b more clued up on islam than i am, can u refute all my questions from a sunni point of view 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K4ur Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 k i dont know the technicals but sum of the words u lot have used - i know nuthing about..... :? i guess i dont knw the nitty grityy's.... any1 willing to explain wot ur chatting bout??? and fairly. sorry -- i jus dont understand wot ur chatting about? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gupt Singh Posted August 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 2 b honest im not quite following the shia stuff but anyway: there are 2 main groups in islam, sunnis and shias, the sunnis tend to be more aggressive and missionary, sortov like your average stereotyped crazy mullah, and are in the big majority. the shias tend to be a little more chilled from what i know, less into the missionary stuff and more into the spiritual side (is that right?). the quran is obviously the holy book of muslims, and the hadiths are the historical accounts of mohammeds life - they are the funniest lol according to mr lallehsvari, the sunnis are infact totally wrong and mohammed was in line with shia ideas, and all hte hadiths which i have quoted are only used by sunnis and hence false. sahih bukhari is the name of the collection of the particular hadith - eg compare "hadith" to "rahitnama" and "sahih bukhari" to "bhai nand lals rahitnamas"......sahih bukhari accounts are said to be the most reliable (by sunnis, that is) personally, ive never met a shia muslim, so i dont know what they are like. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K4ur Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 well i neva even heard of that or anything liek that.... k ley me put a question across yeah and no disrespect intended.... but do u think its rite to basicaly start a thread on this topic. You know wot kinda comments are gonaa be made (like u urself have done) and luk at the pictures at the top of ur page rite now...! Maybe thats the opinion of most or the opinion of a few.... but my question is to you.... is it right??? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gupt Singh Posted August 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 hell yes there was a need for this topic, if moslems make up a sikh one why cant i make up a moslem one? nyways ive posted the qs on a muslim board to see what reply i get obviously some people will b a bit peed off, but then the moslems shudnt have asked the silly questions in the 1st place! but nah, it probably aint right lol :twisted: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 Oh dear me... :roll: Khalsa Soulja Ji, you should only criticise a religion (if that is your iccha) when you have studied it thoroughly you know. I know you got angry at the "Sikhism uncovered" post, but you shouldn't let it get to you.You should just worry about your relationship with your Satguru.You know that. These so called "Muslims" who have so much hatred for other Children of Vahiguru, they are Narakpanthi.There is an unfortunate trend of extremism and intolerance sweeping through Islam at the moment, but it won't last. Do you think Vahiguru is going to let them have their way?Vahiguru is playing with them.Before you criticise Islam, please reflect on the following Great Devotees of One Supreme Guru, The Good, The Merciful, who have been immortalised by Dhan Dhan Satguru Arjan Dev Ji Maharaj: The Great Sheikh Farid Ji Shakar Ganj The Great Bhagat Kabir Ji The Great Pir Bhikhan Shah Ji I don't think it was a good idea to post your question on a Muslim forum, you are only going to cause more tension between Sikhs and Muslims.That was a bad thing you did.I have invited a Musalman to participate in this discussion.Maybe he will answer your questions if he wishes to.Sat Sri Akal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 Khalsa Soulja I ask you again , where is your proof that Imam Ali was not the successor of the Prophet? Please do refer to hadith used by Shias and Sunnis please. Prove your point that SUnnis have the real Islam or leave the discussion. ya ali madad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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