Sukha Maryada (use of Marijuana/Cannabis)

[GurjantGnostic]

There are three things I will confront in The Paanth no questions asked, forever. 

1. Racism.

2. Reefer madness, with no regard for science or history. 

3. Any assertion that alcohol has a safe limit of consumption. 

Honorable mention. Imperial wasp mentality. Which often hits these three topics. 

 

 

[GurjantGnostic]

There is no Nasha in Cannabis period. Some of it is more psychoactive than others that is all. These days I eat it, and I use mainly cbds, and it turns out I was never looking for a head chnage. My body was craving cannabinoids period. Cbd water is simply a blessing. Which is most like SukhNidan or Shaheed Degh. I'd happily ingest the more psychoactive cannabis like in Bhang too. It does not do anything to your mind like they say it does. Only people with no experience parrot the tv. 

[GurjantGnostic]

Essential things.

1. Naam.

2. breathing and water. 

Beneficial things 

1. Sukha and other vitamins. 

2. Herbal teas without caffine. 

3. Turmeric, ginger and spices. 

Things that have a use in war but destory you. To be avoided by all who have the Avastha. 

1. Afeem.

2. Cocaine. Instantly addictive in nature. 

3. Caffine. 

4. Adrenaline.

Things you should never touch.

1. Alcohol 

2. Pcp aka angel dust aka sherm. 

3. Quaaludes and barbiturates, xanax. 

4. Syrups and otc drugs

5. Meth. Meth. And meth. 

6. Meth.

7. Meth not even once. 

8. Huffing paint or solvent. 

Things I leave up to you if there is a place for. But do not necessarily recommend, that aren't exactly covered in Gurbani and should not be confused with spirituality or enlightenment, but aren't exactly drug abuse with historic uses.

1. Mushrooms. Be advised. Many known medical benefits now associated, with long term experiential use of people to verify, but is a poion, and can make one very impaired. Only occasional use in the right settings or under the guidance of a psychologist or shaman etc should this be taken for ptsd and brain injuries or a unique experience. 

2. Dmt. I have not done. Be advised. All research indicates it's natural but the effects can be insane. 

3. Ayahuasca or other psychadelics used under guidance and supervision. 

It's between you and Maharaja if you are at a stage where this is at all temporarily even appropriate if ever. But they are safer than many other drugs with a more profound effect. 

The Truth is you're best off using none of these things ever if you can. The ones they sell otc are just as bad or worse than the natural forms. It doesn't matter if a dr has anything to do with it really. 

Touch none of them or Sukha only.

You can use Sukha to shield yourself from worse drugs if you find yourself in compromising medical or social situations. 

If it's not for you great. It's not for you. Make your own decisions though not other people's, and be real with yourself about it's place in the Paanth. 

When Dharam Yudh happens I expect you all there on gameday and you're gonna wish people bring the Sukha. Or at least be happy enough they brought it for themselves. I gaurantee it. 

[GurjantGnostic]

A lack of acceptance and safety, is putting our girls at risk for grooming. 

Having perfection of them expected in Kaulyug. Families stuck in pride and appearances. 

Lies about Sukha. 

Put them in siuations where they do other worse things, not knowing better, leave them unable to report sex crimes and things that happen to them. 

Real life is not a warm fuzzy movie. We have to accpet, and be truthful about, things reagrding sex and drugs and war. 

Your kids will experiment and rebel. How do you keep them attached to the Guru's Charan or as close as possible?

How do you create a space where people can recover from addiction or sexual abuse within the Paanth? Within an accepting and learned Sangat who loves them and keeps them close?  Even closer if they are hurt rather than shunning them?

Holier than though mentalities, lies, appearances, denial, and assimilation are not the way. 

I can assure you I've been around more puritan, judgemental christians than you'll ever be. I also recognize their effect on our Paanth, and on you all. Maybe in a way that's hard to see yourselves. 

[GurjantGnostic]

Gateway drugs...

When you tell people that alcohol is legal, then that is their baseline for normal, they'll do anything, because they're drunk, and all drugs are basically tamer than alcohol. 

So alcohol is THE gateway drug. In truth. 

The LIES about Sukha make it a potential gateway drug, the lies only. Because people have been lied to with reefer madness, then they try it, then they know it's all been a lie then they say hey ..what else they lie about? Boom. Gateway. 

Tell the truth that alcohol is the hardest drug.  Tell the truth that Sukh is not a drug and all the others are going to kill you. No gateway. 

No drunk teens. No addicted teens. No overdoses. No pregnant teens unless they actually decide to fool around just like if they were sober. No mistake there is a place in the Paanth and always has been for Sukha. 

 

 

[GurjantGnostic]

Biggest killer. Biggest gateway drug right now. Normalization of pharma pain meds especially opiates. Super opioids. 

Supposed modern medicine. 

Supposedly better than Afeem.

Your Dr not your drug dealer. 

Karam. Decades of forced crack sales in poor neighborhoods and lies about addiction as it applies to moral character coming home to roost and destroying the middle and upper classes. The drs family members. The governments family members. The pharma execs family members. 

What alcohol hadn't already done to them. 

Now people are having to ask the real questions about drug addiction and the war on drugs which is a war on people. 

 

[Ragmaala]

Forget about what I think or what I say. I have no authority or say. I don't have to prove anything to anyone, for I am nothing. Let's go back to basics. I will just place the views of taksal from Bhai Mani Singh Ji, Amir Bhandar Tika. Sangat can read it, and make their own decision. So if someone comes on this forum, they have the resource available to decide for themselves. And if someone can be kind enough to translate into English for non-gurmukhi readers or speakers.

Reference: Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Bhagat Kabir Ji, Ang 1377, Amir Bhandar Tika Page 327

 

 

These are not my views, but the view of Great Scholar and Brahmgyani Sant Amir Singh Ji and Giani Kirpal Singh Ji, from the Bhai Mani Singh Ji Samparda. I will translate few points in quotes, correct the translation if its wrong.

"In the Gurbani above, Bhang is Sukha, meat of fish, chicken, dried tobacco leaves used by Maharashtrians, and also refers to Maya that creates obstacles in Bhagti... those who use these, all their sadhanas are worthless...

After the war of Emnabaad , Babar presented/offered 7 fists of  Bhang to Guru Nanak Dev ji. Guru Nanak Dev Ji replied we dont need this bhang, we are already drinking the internal bhang, the love of Parmatma, the Naam Khumari.    Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ang 721 ..

ਤਿਲੰਗ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਘਰੁ ੨    ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ਭਉ ਤੇਰਾ ਭਾਂਗ ਖਲੜੀ ਮੇਰਾ ਚੀਤੁ ॥ ਮੈ ਦੇਵਾਨਾ ਭਇਆ ਅਤੀਤੁ ॥ ਕਰ ਕਾਸਾ ਦਰਸਨ ਕੀ ਭੂਖ ॥ ਮੈ ਦਰਿ ਮਾਗਉ ਨੀਤਾ ਨੀਤ ॥੧॥ ਤਉ ਦਰਸਨ ਕੀ ਕਰਉ ਸਮਾਇ ॥ ਮੈ ਦਰਿ ਮਾਗਤੁ ਭੀਖਿਆ ਪਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਕੇਸਰਿ ਕੁਸਮ ਮਿਰਗਮੈ ਹਰਣਾ ਸਰਬ ਸਰੀਰੀ ਚੜ੍ਹ੍ਹਣਾ ॥ ਚੰਦਨ ਭਗਤਾ ਜੋਤਿ ਇਨੇਹੀ ਸਰਬੇ ਪਰਮਲੁ ਕਰਣਾ ॥੨॥ ਘਿਅ ਪਟ ਭਾਂਡਾ ਕਹੈ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ ਐਸਾ ਭਗਤੁ ਵਰਨ ਮਹਿ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਤੇਰੈ ਨਾਮਿ ਨਿਵੇ ਰਹੇ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਨ ਦਰਿ ਭੀਖਿਆ ਪਾਇ ॥੩॥੧॥੨॥

 

Some Manmukhs to hide their own shortcomings , use the following pankti  

to say that Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji have asked bowl of bhang from Parmatma. Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji have not taken anything with partakh nasha. In Hikayatan, Guru Gobind Singh ji have talked about 'Sabaz Rang Prem'...

Some people say that Guru Sahib used Bhang and Afeem. This is impossible and against Gurmat. Guru ji instructed Khalsa regarding alcohol and bhang:

Regarding Hazur Sahib Sukhnidhan Maryada, it was started by a pujari who came from Vrindavan, he would drink bhang himself and started doing bhog of Sukhnidhan, and that's how the maryada got established. 

Regarding Afeem, Giani Gian Singh used to take afim, and he wrote that Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj used to take afim. "

After reading the above, Sangat can make their own decision and choose for themselves. Its very clear. The above are views of great taksal of Bhai Mani Singh Ji Shaheed. These are not mine. Now Gurjantgnostic will say that Bhai Mani Singh Ji were also brain-washed by gore, imperial, white etc etc. what a joke

Summary:

• Our Current Guru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji/ Bhagat Kabir Ji talks against Bhang, although Bhang can also mean other things as mentioned above. 
• Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji refused bhang when offered by Babar In Emnabad
• Guru Gobind Singh Ji instructed his Khalsa 
  • you can translate it as you wish
• Sukhnidhan Maryada at Hazur Sahib was started by a Pujari who came from Vrindavan, and was fond of drinking bhang himself, and started doing bhog of it. And it got normalized afterwards.
• Giani Gian Singh was a opium userm and he portrayed Guru Sahib as such.

@dalsingh101 if I made any mistakes in translating the original text, please feel free to correct it. 

 

 

 

 

[GurjantGnostic]

1 hour ago, Ragmaala said:

Regarding Hazur Sahib Sukhnidhan Maryada, it was started by a pujari who came from Vrindavan, he would drink bhang himself and started doing bhog of Sukhnidhan, and that's how the maryada got established.

Back that up fistly. 

Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Reference been covered repeatedly. 

Guru Nanak Dev Ji declined that offer of Sukha as he didn't need it. Didn't say nobody should use it. 

And even if Giani Gain Singh was an opium user you didnt validate he did anything. 

So basically you've yet to say anything again. 

Weak sauce bro. 

Also doesn't explain your views on methadone for heroin junkies and barbituates for alcoholics falls perfectly in line with the western model. Instead of heroin for heroin, alcohol for alcohol that people actually do when the law doesn't interfere. People only take barbituates for dts in places they aren't allowed alcohol for dts. 

You've yet to address countless Shaheed Singhs and their use of Sukha. Care to comment or you're smart enough to keep your mouth shut about that?

How there were Degh Sevadars that your Guru had? 

Saying that you're quoting a Sant isn't going to cut it. 

You know head in the sand we can still see your rear bro?

 

[dalsingh101]

@Ragmaala

I appreciate your contribution bhai ji. 

I have to say, the thing that threw me, in terms of the whole narrative of certain substances, was coming across the reference in Kavi Sainapati's Sri Gursobha where Singhs about to embark on a long journey southward, are described as having afeem in their possession.  

 

And it seems REALLY hard to believe that Rattan Singh Bhangu was way off with his descriptions of his grandfather, Sukha SIngh, and Baba Gurbaksh Singh Shaheeds in Panth Prakash too. 

[GurjantGnostic]

What the Guru Sahiban did, and what even very dedicated Sangat did, are two different things. They went alokh. We die.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji didn't need to breath either. 

What one can do without being Kurehit, and what is prescribed as necessary for Mukte or Sanjog are two different things also.  

Just because God themself doesn't need an asprin doesn't mean you won't take one in your life. 

Just because the Guru Sahiban didn't use insulin doesn't mean you shouldn't use insulin. 

What is clear, is a relationship, between the Paanth and Sukha, that is older than the anglo sin mentality the pommies left behind. 

[dalsingh101]

@GurjantGnostic

Take it easy bro. This is good discussion. Let everyone have their say. This is where real learning takes place and people share sources. 

Let's keep it civil. We're talking about an important subject, and given how addiction has spread like a mofo around the globe causing havoc, people who are hawkish about psychotropics have a point in that at least. 

[dalsingh101]

3 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

What the Guru Sahiban did, and what even very dedicated Sangat did, are two different things. They went alokh. We die.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji didn't need to breath either. 

What one can do without being Kurehit, and what is prescribed as necessary for Mukte or Sanjog are two different things also.  

Just because God themself doesn't need an asprin doesn't mean you won't take one in your life. 

Just because the Guru Sahiban didn't use insulin doesn't mean you shouldn't use insulin. 

What is clear, is a relationship, between the Paanth and Sukha, that is older than the anglo sin mentality the pommies left behind. 

Interesting point. 

People say Guru ji didn't do this, or didn't do that, or wouldn't do this or that. 

My thinking is that if they are manifestations of the divine source of creation, they can do what they want with what they've created. We aren't in the same boat. 

If Guru ji brought something in the mix, it wasn't for them, it was for us humans. 

[GurjantGnostic]

20 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

@GurjantGnostic

Take it easy bro. This is good discussion. Let everyone have their say. This is where real learning takes place and people share sources. 

Let's keep it civil. We're talking about an important subject, and given how addiction has spread like a mofo around the globe causing havoc, people who are hawkish about psychotropics have a point in that at least. 

A civil conversation that started with threats of slapping? @paapiman

Followed by a certain amount of smarm and ad hominem that finally resulted in a single post worth mentioning?

I don't really find that input to be respectful or well founded either, like would he say that in Hazur Sahib? No he wouldn't. They've done a better job than anywhere else keeping their autonomy and traditions. I wouldn't scoff at Hazur Sahib or their Singhs or Shaheeds. 

Disrespectful bro. Nice seeming isn't necessarily civil. Psychos are nice bro. They have no reason not be. 

For the record this is my civil. Lol. 

[GurjantGnostic]

If people are worried about addiction they should study cannabis in addition to proper living. 

I've said it every way imaginable and went simply unanswered. 

A lot of fake people out there love to turn their nose down at Sukha while they secretly get up to all sorts. 

War on drugs especially reefer madness has had damaging effects on my people. 

It's not a light intellectual topic we enjoy talking about from our comfortable position. 

It's part of our war to be left alone, in peace and health and freedom. 

And its villification is part of the destruction of and opression of indegnous people. And it's been decades now fighting against the fake science and sin mentality that's been devestating us. 

It's not a joke, and its dividing the Paanth too because people who supposedly don't use or need anything have a problem with historically obvious use of Sukha by very legitimate members of the Paanth including our beloved Shaheeds. 

And as I recognize it from my past, and know the damage the mentality does, I will speak my pieces. And do so better than any opposition views expressed so far. 

[GurjantGnostic]

Nobody in the Paanth ever needed medicine?

Everyone was in such bliss that the Guru Sahiban didn't have afeem?

Any reference to feeling good or using medicine was put there by outsiders?

Quote a historical text an we'll lash out at you?

Seen that before. Not in good company. 

I agree. This was a civil conversation. Then the threats started, and the smarmy ad hominem avoiding points. 

 

 

 

[Ragmaala]

@GurjantGnostic I don’t have to prove myself or back myself up or defend myself, I have quoted the words of scholars and mahapurush. Its not for you but for the sangat who will come here, they can read and decide themselves what they choose to do.

I don’t have to reply or respond to your every sentence. Your writing style clearly indicates hyper response and manic state of mind. Take it easy on sukha.

You can call me names and insult me. Please go ahead. Thanks.

[GurjantGnostic]

1 minute ago, Ragmaala said:

@GurjantGnostic I don’t have to prove myself or back myself up or defend myself, I have quoted the words of scholars and mahapurush. Its not for you but for the sangat who will come here, they can read and decide themselves what they choose to do.

I don’t have to reply or respond to your every sentence. Your writing style clearly indicates hyper response and manic state of mind. Take it easy on sukha.

You can call me names and insult me. Please go ahead. Thanks.

You don't have to do anything. You're free to stay quiet or be addressed. 

But if we are talking about this subject...here ..go pick up your missed points and validate your statements. 

You need to look up manic bro. 

 

[Ragmaala]

It’s obvious you are very involved and passionate about this topic, and understandably so.

 

[GurjantGnostic]

Just now, Ragmaala said:

It’s obvious you are very involved and passionate about this topic, and understandably so.

 

Mmm and educated, and experienced. Not only with it but people like you. 

Don't respect it. 

[Ragmaala]

1 minute ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Mmm and educated, and experienced. Not only with it but people like you. 

Don't respect it. 

Good for you man , carry on.

Peace out

[GurjantGnostic]

I already explained my method of posting. 

Furthermore. Could you imagine all that in one post? Even broken down you can't seem to respond to anything. 

Things like trying to slyly call how I post as manic in the same sentence you mention Sukha is the kind of disingenuous type of behavior I don't respect. 

[GurjantGnostic]

1 minute ago, Ragmaala said:

Good for you man , carry on.

Peace out

Peace bro. No respect. 

[GurjantGnostic]

Actually dude @Ragmaala get back here and validate what you said about Sukha Maryada in Hazur Sahib, and the recorded use of Sukha by Shaheed Singhs then you're dismissed. That's getting off light considering the mountain of points you didn't answer at all. 

And if anyone wants to go back and look into various sources, or verify things, or have actual new input to offer, we can do that. 

And hopefully nobody threatens to slap anyone all shameless and red in the face or chimes in but drops all points and doesn't validate anything before smarming off. 

 

 

[Ragmaala]

23 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

validate what you said about Sukha Maryada in Hazur Sahib

As I clearly mentioned, these are not my words, but I have quoted the words of Amir Bhandar Tika from Bhai Mani Singh Ji Taksal. I have provided the page number. 

[Ragmaala]

25 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

then you're dismissed. That's getting off light considering the mountain of points you didn't answer at all. 

You are no one to dismiss me, and I choose what I need to respond to and what not to.