paapiman Posted May 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 From Sri Mukat Marg Granth. Does anyone know how to do this Havan of Satnaam in details? Bhul chuk maaf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 31, 2021 Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 Not to offend anyone but I found these verses in Sri Gyan Parbodh by Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj. ਅਧੋ ਸੁ ਧੂਮ ਧੂਮਹੀ॥ Many with faces upside down light the fire ਅਘੂਰ ਨੇਤ੍ਰ ਘੂਮਹੀ॥ Many ascetics roam forsaking their sleep.ਸੁ ਪੰਚ ਅਗਨ ਸਾਧੀਯੰ॥ Many perform austerity of five fires ਨ ਤਾਮ ਪਾਰ ਲਾਧੀਯੰ॥੧੦॥੮੮॥ Even they have not been able to know thy limits. ਅਨੰਤ ਜਗ੍ਯ ਕਰਮਣੰ ॥ (ਭਾਵੇਾਂ ਕੋਈ) ਅਨੰਤ ਯੱਗ ਅਤੇ ਕਰਮ (ਕਰਦਾ ਫਿਰੇ) The performance of innumerable acts of sacrifices ਗਜਾਦਿ ਆਦਿ ਧਰਮਣੰ ॥ The performance of the religious act of giving elephants etc. in charity ਅਨੇਕ ਦੇਸ ਭਰਮਣੰ ॥ Wandering in many countries ਨ ਏਕ ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਸਮੰ ॥੧੨॥੯੦॥ All these acts do not equal the merit of the remembrance of the Name of One Lord. ਕਰੋਰ ਕੋਟ ਦਾਨਕੰ॥ One may perform millions of types of charitiesਅਨੇਕ ਜਗ੍ਯ ਕ੍ਰਤਬਿਯੰ॥ (ਅਨੇਕ ਤਰ੍ਰਹਾ ਦੇ ਯੱਗ ਕਰਦਾ ਫਿਰੇ) He may perform many types of sacrifices and actions. ਸਨ੍ਯਾਸ ਆਦਿ ਧਰਮਣੰ ॥ One may adopt the religious garb of mendicant ਉਦਾਸ ਨਾਮ ਕਰਮਣੰ ॥੧੫॥੯੩॥ He may perform many rituals of a hermit. ਜਗਾਦਿ ਆਦਿ ਧਰਮਣੰ ॥ (ਭਾਵੇਾਂ ਕੋਈ) ਯੱਗ ਆਦਿ ਧਰਮਾ ਦਾ ਪਾਲਨ ਕਰੇ, One may perform the religious acts of the ancient ages ਬੈਰਾਗ ਆਦਿ ਕਰਮਣੰ ॥ He may perform the ascetic and monastic works. ਦਯਾਦਿ ਆਦਿ ਕਾਮਣੰ ॥ He may perform the works of mercy etc., and magic ਅਨਾਦ ਸੰਜਮੰ ਬ੍ਰਿਦੰ ॥੧੭॥੯੫॥ They are all wworks of great restraint, prevalent from times immemorial. I don't think any type of Sikh Havan or Hindu Havan has been mentioned. If guru sahib has rejected something, doesn't mean we produce a 'Sikh' version of it and justify it by reading certain banis. There's no need of doing Havan. If it would have been, it must be mentioned in Gurbani. Gurmukhs like Baba Harnaam Singh Ji, Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji, Sant Attar Singh Ji and probably Nanaksar waale Mahapurakhs also never engaged in these rituals. It's better to spend your time reading and understanding bani than to discover new ways to attain Mukti. As long as you follow Rehat and do abhyaas, no-one can stop you. And even if Havan was in line with Sikhi, we don't find any hukam for this anywhere. So if it's true, still it is not a Paap if you don't do it. This is MY logic for jhatka, sukha etc. We can't find any HUKAMS related to them. But we should just respect those people who do these and focus on ourselves. Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 31, 2021 Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 On 4/5/2017 at 9:18 PM, paapiman said: Bro, these people might be associated with AKJ or following so-called SRM. We should avoid listening to such people as they can possibly create confusion in our minds. Even Nihangs in the past used to do Havans. Sri Satguru jee (Ninth Master) did Havans, while on tour in the eastern parts of India. (Ref - Sri Sooraj Prakash Granth) Bhul chuk maaf Do you even know who this person is? Do you know about his jeevan? He is Dr. Daljit Singh Ji. And AKJ is not any cult as you suppose. Talk to puratan taksaali gursikhs to know about the pyaar between AKJ and Taksaal Singhs. Do you even know the love between- Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji and Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji, Sant Kartar Singh Ji and Bhai Sahib Jeevan Singh Ji, Baba Harnaam Singh Ji and Bhai Sahib Jeevan Singh Ji and Bhai Joginder Singh Talwara, Sant Jarnail Singh Ji and Shaheed Bhai Sukhdev Singh Babbar, Sant Jarnail Singh and Shaheed Bhai Fauja Singh Ji? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Trimandeep Singh said: There's no need of doing Havan. If it would have been, it must be mentioned in Gurbani. Havan/Hom is mentioned in Sri Sooraj Prakash Granth and Sri Mukat Marg Granth. It might be mentioned in Sri Panth Prakash too. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Do you even know the love between- Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji and Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji, Sant Kartar Singh Ji and Bhai Sahib Jeevan Singh Ji, Baba Harnaam Singh Ji and Bhai Sahib Jeevan Singh Ji and Bhai Joginder Singh Talwara, Sant Jarnail Singh Ji and Shaheed Bhai Sukhdev Singh Babbar, Sant Jarnail Singh and Shaheed Bhai Fauja Singh Ji? AKJ has produced many Gursikhs. There is no doubt about it. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Trimandeep Singh said: ਅਧੋ ਸੁ ਧੂਮ ਧੂਮਹੀ॥ Many with faces upside down light the fire ਅਘੂਰ ਨੇਤ੍ਰ ਘੂਮਹੀ॥ Many ascetics roam forsaking their sleep.ਸੁ ਪੰਚ ਅਗਨ ਸਾਧੀਯੰ॥ Many perform austerity of five fires ਨ ਤਾਮ ਪਾਰ ਲਾਧੀਯੰ॥੧੦॥੮੮॥ Even they have not been able to know thy limits. ਅਨੰਤ ਜਗ੍ਯ ਕਰਮਣੰ ॥ (ਭਾਵੇਾਂ ਕੋਈ) ਅਨੰਤ ਯੱਗ ਅਤੇ ਕਰਮ (ਕਰਦਾ ਫਿਰੇ) The performance of innumerable acts of sacrifices ਗਜਾਦਿ ਆਦਿ ਧਰਮਣੰ ॥ The performance of the religious act of giving elephants etc. in charity ਅਨੇਕ ਦੇਸ ਭਰਮਣੰ ॥ Wandering in many countries ਨ ਏਕ ਨਾਮ ਕੇ ਸਮੰ ॥੧੨॥੯੦॥ All these acts do not equal the merit of the remembrance of the Name of One Lord. ਕਰੋਰ ਕੋਟ ਦਾਨਕੰ॥ One may perform millions of types of charitiesਅਨੇਕ ਜਗ੍ਯ ਕ੍ਰਤਬਿਯੰ॥ (ਅਨੇਕ ਤਰ੍ਰਹਾ ਦੇ ਯੱਗ ਕਰਦਾ ਫਿਰੇ) He may perform many types of sacrifices and actions. ਸਨ੍ਯਾਸ ਆਦਿ ਧਰਮਣੰ ॥ One may adopt the religious garb of mendicant ਉਦਾਸ ਨਾਮ ਕਰਮਣੰ ॥੧੫॥੯੩॥ He may perform many rituals of a hermit. ਜਗਾਦਿ ਆਦਿ ਧਰਮਣੰ ॥ (ਭਾਵੇਾਂ ਕੋਈ) ਯੱਗ ਆਦਿ ਧਰਮਾ ਦਾ ਪਾਲਨ ਕਰੇ, One may perform the religious acts of the ancient ages ਬੈਰਾਗ ਆਦਿ ਕਰਮਣੰ ॥ He may perform the ascetic and monastic works. ਦਯਾਦਿ ਆਦਿ ਕਾਮਣੰ ॥ He may perform the works of mercy etc., and magic ਅਨਾਦ ਸੰਜਮੰ ਬ੍ਰਿਦੰ ॥੧੭॥੯੫॥ They are all wworks of great restraint, prevalent from times immemorial. The above verses DO NOT prove that Havan/Hom is rejected in GURBANI. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 31, 2021 Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 11 minutes ago, paapiman said: Havan/Hom is mentioned in Sri Sooraj Prakash Granth and Sri Mukat Marg Granth. It might be mentioned in Sri Panth Prakash too. Bhul chuk maaf But these Granths are written by gursikhs so mistakes are bound to happen. We all know about some anti gurmat stuff written in these granths. I am not saying just discredit them. Only Satguru Ji is perfect. Even Brahmgyanis had made some mistakes in the past, though they were very very small, but still. W have to believe these stories in light of Gurmat. So, we Need to find panktis from Sri Guru Granth Sahib, Sri Dasam Granth Sahib, Sri Sarbloh Granth and Bhai Gurdaas Ji and Bhai Nand Lal Ji writings because they are perfect and contain no mistakes. We need to accept their teachings and interpret everything in light of teachings of these 5. If you find any pankti in support of Havan/ Sikh Havan in any of the 5, Pls post and we can do vichar. Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 31, 2021 Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 9 minutes ago, paapiman said: The above verses DO NOT prove that Havan/Hom is rejected in GURBANI. Bhul chuk maaf I think Havan Hom are likes of Yagya only. If guru sahib says don't consume cannabis, then would you want him to mention hookah, cigarette, charas ganja everything? I think if he has mentioned something, then we should consider its likes also. Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 53 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: I think Havan Hom are likes of Yagya only. The verses which you posted from Sri Dasam Gurbani, DO NOT prove that Yag/Jag and Havan/Hom are rejected in GURMAT. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Trimandeep Singh said: But these Granths are written by gursikhs so mistakes are bound to happen. We all know about some anti gurmat stuff written in these granths. I am not saying just discredit them. Only Satguru Ji is perfect. Even Brahmgyanis had made some mistakes in the past, though they were very very small, but still. W have to believe these stories in light of Gurmat. So, we Need to find panktis from Sri Guru Granth Sahib, Sri Dasam Granth Sahib, Sri Sarbloh Granth and Bhai Gurdaas Ji and Bhai Nand Lal Ji writings because they are perfect and contain no mistakes. We need to accept their teachings and interpret everything in light of teachings of these 5. If you find any pankti in support of Havan/ Sikh Havan in any of the 5, Pls post and we can do vichar. Trimandeep Singh Please watch the video (Katha of Sri Dasam Gurbani) below. Also, please read the description. Jhatka & Hawan Concept in Sri Dasam Granth Saheb - See Description - YouTube @Soulfinder Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 31, 2021 Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 53 minutes ago, paapiman said: The verses which you posted from Sri Dasam Gurbani, DO NOT prove that Yag/Jag and Havan/Hom are rejected in GURMAT. Bhul chuk maaf What? Guru sahib has mentioned doing yags along with all types of prevalent practices that are considered FRUITLESS and KARAMKAAND by Gurbani. Just like in Japji Sahib, in 2nd 'Asankh' pauri, guru sahib has talked about sinners and their activities, so we consider all of those Paaps, Guru Gobind Singh Ji has mentioned jags along with practices like sacrifices, wandering in forests, doing fasting, doing charities, wearing garb of a saint etc which means jagya is one of these empty rituals and practices which bear no fruit. And please can you give me an example of any Taksaal Mahapurakh or Nanaksar Mahapurush who accepted Havan as Gurmat? I consider opinions of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji very important. And he is completely against doing aarti Pooja of guru sahib like hindus with a thaali, doing Havans and stuff. Him being a GURMUKH Brahmgyani, I trust him and believe him. Also, please do find panktis from Sri Guru Granth Sahib, Sri Dasam Granth Sahib, Sri Sarbloh Granth and Bhai Gurdaas Ji and Bhai Nand Lal Ji writings. If you find one, we can do vichar. Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulfinder Posted May 31, 2021 Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 1 hour ago, paapiman said: Please watch the video (Katha of Sri Dasam Gurbani) below. Also, please read the description. Jhatka & Hawan Concept in Sri Dasam Granth Saheb - See Description - YouTube @Soulfinder Bhul chuk maaf Jhatka & Hawan Concept in Sri Dasam Granth Saheb - See Description.mp4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulfinder Posted May 31, 2021 Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 2061820387___(SD).mp4.42550dd3362084e802d0debbcb95ed95.mp4 VID-20200605-WA0000.mp4.f77ee193d6d664cb5a1fe9d23367c79c.mp4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 31, 2021 Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 If you can give any logic behind Havan that how does reading bani in front of fire benefit us, then it be helpful. Will it benefit more if one does a Havan? If your answer is fire is symbolizing Akaal Purakh, then I don't agree because symbolizism has no place in gurmat. Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 13 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Also, please do find panktis from Sri Guru Granth Sahib, Sri Dasam Granth Sahib, Sri Sarbloh Granth and Bhai Gurdaas Ji and Bhai Nand Lal Ji writings. If you find one, we can do vichar. Did you Listen to the Katha clip which was posted? Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 13 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Also, please do find panktis from Sri Guru Granth Sahib, Sri Dasam Granth Sahib, Sri Sarbloh Granth and Bhai Gurdaas Ji and Bhai Nand Lal Ji writings. If you find one, we can do vichar. Please read the last two verses of SRI BHAGAUTI BRAHAM KAVACH SAAB below. Bhul chuk maaf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 21 minutes ago, paapiman said: Did you Listen to the Katha clip which was posted? Bhul chuk maaf Yes, I did listen to it and after listening to translations, here is story. ************* Once demons gathered together to discuss the problem of Vishnu with them. He always killed the demons and his mystery was still unknown. Shukracharya, the head of the demons said that the devte perform yajnas and that is why they always remain happy. So, he recommended to do a yajna so that they can defeat the devte the next time. The devte went to Vishnu and requested him to do something about it. Vishnu said that now, he will take an avatar to destroy the yajna of the demons. Vishnu went to various pilgrimage sites and did ritualistic 'Teerath Ishnaan' and gave millions of charities to Brahmans. Then he remembered the Almighty Lord who instructed him to take avatar of Arhant Dev. As Arhant Dev, he started a new religion and became the guru of the demons. He started various sects of which one was of a Sravak (Jains). He commanded all to pluck down their hair locks. As a result, the demons forgot the mantras and if someone did remember, it would have negative impact on him. He then stopped the practice of sacrificial killing in the name of lord which is essential for a yajna. Hence, noone killed beings and couldn't perform any yajna. If anyone used to kill beings, he was slandered and insulted by the whole world. Vishnu showed everyone the wrong path in the name of Dharam and noone performed the Dharmic Karams. ****************** But how does this tell that Yagya/Havan/Hom is in line with Gurmat. Well, you can try doing a Havan and tell us your experience, throwing useless samagri in the fire and reciting Brahm Kavach the same time. Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 27 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Yes, I did listen to it and after listening to translations, here is story. ************* Once demons gathered together to discuss the problem of Vishnu with them. He always killed the demons and his mystery was still unknown. Shukracharya, the head of the demons said that the devte perform yajnas and that is why they always remain happy. So, he recommended to do a yajna so that they can defeat the devte the next time. The devte went to Vishnu and requested him to do something about it. Vishnu said that now, he will take an avatar to destroy the yajna of the demons. Vishnu went to various pilgrimage sites and did ritualistic 'Teerath Ishnaan' and gave millions of charities to Brahmans. Then he remembered the Almighty Lord who instructed him to take avatar of Arhant Dev. As Arhant Dev, he started a new religion and became the guru of the demons. He started various sects of which one was of a Sravak (Jains). He commanded all to pluck down their hair locks. As a result, the demons forgot the mantras and if someone did remember, it would have negative impact on him. He then stopped the practice of sacrificial killing in the name of lord which is essential for a yajna. Hence, noone killed beings and couldn't perform any yajna. If anyone used to kill beings, he was slandered and insulted by the whole world. Vishnu showed everyone the wrong path in the name of Dharam and noone performed the Dharmic Karams. ****************** But how does this tell that Yagya/Havan/Hom is in line with Gurmat. Well, you can try doing a Havan and tell us your experience, throwing useless samagri in the fire and reciting Brahm Kavach the same time. Trimandeep Singh More than enough evidence has been provided to you to prove that Havan is apart of Sikhism. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 27 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Well, you can try doing a Havan and tell us your experience, throwing useless samagri in the fire and reciting Brahm Kavach the same time. Gurparsaad, Daas will do a Havan one day. Bhul chuk maaf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 14 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Also, please do find panktis from Sri Guru Granth Sahib, Sri Dasam Granth Sahib, Sri Sarbloh Granth and Bhai Gurdaas Ji and Bhai Nand Lal Ji writings. If you find one, we can do vichar. Havan is mentioned in SRI UGGARDANTI SAHIB JEE too. Gurparsaad, Daas will post that verse soon. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 30 minutes ago, paapiman said: More than enough evidence has been provided to you to prove that Havan is apart of Sikhism. Bhul chuk maaf Which evidence? You gave evidence from Sri Dasam Granth Sahib and I put forward the translation. You didn't tell me how do we conclude from this story, that Havan is in line with Gurmat. Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 28 minutes ago, paapiman said: Gurparsaad, Daas will do a Havan one day. Bhul chuk maaf Thanks and do tell your experience. Don't forget to get 1 kg ghee. Eagerly waiting ji 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 28 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Which evidence? You gave evidence from Sri Dasam Granth Sahib and I put forward the translation. You didn't tell me how do we conclude from this story, that Havan is in line with Gurmat. Trimandeep Singh The below verses are from SRI UGGARDANTI SAAB JEE. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 28 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Thanks and do tell your experience. Don't forget to get 1 kg ghee. Eagerly waiting ji Please do pray for me brother and pass on your blessings. Thanks a lot Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 1 minute ago, paapiman said: Please do pray for me brother and pass on your blessings. Thanks a lot Bhul chuk maaf I suggest reading Asa Di Vaar and 2 Saviyye in Akal Ustat. They have exposed pakhand and anti gurmat rituals at large and in a beautiful way. Obviously, you are a great khoji sikh. So you know this Ji. All the Best Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.