Is studying Sikh history important/useful?

[dalsingh101]

You know, a few of us here have been looking at SIkh ithihaas for a while now, and we've been blessed enough to be able to look at puratan sources outside of all the post-annexation stuff that most of us would have grown up with.

I'd like to discuss. Is it important and/or useful. If so - in which way? Why?

[Soulfinder]

3 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

You know, a few of us here have been looking at SIkh ithihaas for a while now, and we've been blessed enough to be able to look at puratan sources outside of all the post-annexation stuff that most of us would have grown up with.

I'd like to discuss. Is it important and/or useful. If so - in which way? Why?

Veer ji its really important to learn our itihaas cos it helps us identify who we are and what our history is.

 

Also by learning more about our history culture we will pass the knowledge onto our families as well.

[dalsingh101]

8 minutes ago, Soulfinder said:

Veer ji its really important to learn our itihaas cos it helps us identify who we are and what our history is.

 

Also by learning more about our history culture we will pass the knowledge onto our families as well.

Veer, do you ever feel that important aspects of our history were altered or hidden from us during the colonial period? 

[Soulfinder]

41 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

Veer, do you ever feel that important aspects of our history were altered or hidden from us during the colonial period? 

Yes veer ji i do feel that our history was changed during the colonial period. Cos it was during this time that banis were shortend such as Sri Rehras Sahib,Chupai Sahib etc. Also banis as Ugardanti,Bramh Kavach and many more banis was taken out of the Sri Dasam Granth Sahib only Sri Hazur Sahib and Budha Dal kept these banis preserved. 

[dalsingh101]

Just now, Soulfinder said:

Yes veer ji i do feel that our history was changed during the colonial period. Cos it was during this time that banis were shortend such as Sri Rehras Sahib,Chupai Sahib etc. Also banis as Ugardanti,Bramh Kavach and many more banis was taken out of the Sri Dasam Granth Sahib only Sri Hazur Sahib and Budha Dal kept these banis preserved. 

Yeah, and overall Dasam Granth was subtly sidelined too during this period in my opinion. It's now like we are only just rediscovering it. 

[Soulfinder]

23 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

Yeah, and overall Dasam Granth was subtly sidelined too during this period in my opinion. It's now like we are only just rediscovering it. 

Yes veer ji also Sri Dasam Granth Sahib was done parkash at many gurdwaras in punjab including Sri Darbar Sahib but it was removed during the colonial time. 

 

Its good that we are getting information now about what has been lost about our history. 

 

Also i remember hearing was that the size of sri sahibs kirpans was changed as well along with the beard tying trend as well was started during this time.

[dalsingh101]

1 minute ago, Soulfinder said:

Yes veer ji also Sri Dasam Granth Sahib was done parkash at many gurdwaras in punjab including Sri Darbar Sahib but it was removed during the colonial time. 

 

Its good that we are getting information now about what has been lost about our history. 

 

Also i remember hearing was that the size of sri sahibs kirpans was changed as well along with the beard tying trend as well was started during this time.

Bhai ji, it was panj shasters/hathiars before - not just a Sri Sahib. 

[Soulfinder]

Just now, dalsingh101 said:

Bhai ji, it was panj shasters/hathiars before - not just a Sri Sahib. 

I didn't know that veer ji thanks for letting me know. But it was quite a lot of censorship that was placed on our religion itihaas and maryada as well since they made panth maryada which nobody believes as it has many wrong ideas in.

 

[dalsingh101]

 

3 minutes ago, Soulfinder said:

I didn't know that veer ji thanks for letting me know. But it was quite a lot of censorship that was placed on our religion itihaas and maryada as well since they made panth maryada which nobody believes as it has many wrong ideas in.

 

[Soulfinder]

2 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

 

Thanks veer ji for sharing i didn't know about this.

[Jageera]

Yes very useful as it motivates us to follow the teachings of the Gurus more closely and  get closer to our own culture and traditions as many these days speak english and have deluded themselves that they are 'White'.They walk,talk and behave like Engrejs and are suffering from Internalized Racism that makes them hate people of their own race and they undermine and mock their own people while being extremely loyal to their masters of other races whichever race that might be.

Browsing through Sikh history and some old sources have opened my eyes that there is an active agenda to undermine the teachings and Hukams of the Guru especially of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.In his 52 hukams Guruji mentions "Raajniti parhni - Study politics." On Wikipedia this is the translation given "Raajnitee parhnee — Study and learn about governmental policies." Notice the difference? 

Another one."Sutantar Vicharna. Raaj Kaaj dian kamaan tae doosrae mutaa dia purshaan noo huk nahi daenaa - Rule Independently. In the affairs of government, do not give people of other religions authority or power."On Wikipedia the translation is "Sutantar vicharna. Raaj Kaaj dian kamaan tae doosrae mutaa dia purshaan noo huk nahee daenaa — Maintain independent rule. In the affairs of governing, do not give the power of religious authority to those of other faiths".

Again notice the difference in translation?One talks about political power while the Wikipedia version only mentions religious authority.

This is yet another reason to read up on old sources to prevent hostile forces who pretend to be benevolent and friendly from pulling wool over our eyes.

[Soulfinder]

12 hours ago, Jageera said:

Yes very useful as it motivates us to follow the teachings of the Gurus more closely and  get closer to our own culture and traditions as many these days speak english and have deluded themselves that they are 'White'.They walk,talk and behave like Engrejs and are suffering from Internalized Racism that makes them hate people of their own race and they undermine and mock their own people while being extremely loyal to their masters of other races whichever race that might be.

Browsing through Sikh history and some old sources have opened my eyes that there is an active agenda to undermine the teachings and Hukams of the Guru especially of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.In his 52 hukams Guruji mentions "Raajniti parhni - Study politics." On Wikipedia this is the translation given "Raajnitee parhnee — Study and learn about governmental policies." Notice the difference? 

Another one."Sutantar Vicharna. Raaj Kaaj dian kamaan tae doosrae mutaa dia purshaan noo huk nahi daenaa - Rule Independently. In the affairs of government, do not give people of other religions authority or power."On Wikipedia the translation is "Sutantar vicharna. Raaj Kaaj dian kamaan tae doosrae mutaa dia purshaan noo huk nahee daenaa — Maintain independent rule. In the affairs of governing, do not give the power of religious authority to those of other faiths".

Again notice the difference in translation?One talks about political power while the Wikipedia version only mentions religious authority.

This is yet another reason to read up on old sources to prevent hostile forces who pretend to be benevolent and friendly from pulling wool over our eyes.

Veer ji thats really good points you have wrote.

 

Here is a few videos audios i have found on how the british destroyed sikhs by bhai jugraj singh basics of sikh and how purtan rehras sahib was shortned down by Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji

 

[Jageera]

10 hours ago, Soulfinder said:

 

 

Thanks for the  vid veerji. I've watched another one of Bhai Jagraj Singh on youtube,it was like some debate going on regarding colonialism and on the other side you could clearly see a "Kala Engrej" in it's full glory supporting his colonial masters. I'm all for free speech but at the same time we should free our minds too and remove this mental shackles of servitude.

[dalsingh101]

3 hours ago, Jageera said:

Thanks for the  vid veerji. I've watched another one of Bhai Jagraj Singh on youtube,it was like some debate going on regarding colonialism and on the other side you could clearly see a "Kala Engrej" in it's full glory supporting his colonial masters. I'm all for free speech but at the same time we should free our minds too and remove this mental shackles of servitude.

What if what has happened is an actual surreptitious manipulation of the dharam itself, that leads to people thinking that their conception of it, is actually the genuine thing, but in reality, what they are following is a new construct that is a by product of the colonial period. 

Now when you try and tell them this, or question things, they perceive it as an actual attack on the dharam itself and get very defensive. Like that ole fart in that debate with Bhai Jagraj Singh for example. Or like when you question anything about the Singh Sabha lehar. 

[Jageera]

56 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

What if what has happened is an actual surreptitious manipulation of the dharam itself, that leads to people thinking that their conception of it, is actually the genuine thing, but in reality, what they are following is a new construct that is a by product of the colonial period. 

Now when you try and tell them this, or question things, they perceive it as an actual attack on the dharam itself and get very defensive. Like that ole fart in that debate with Bhai Jagraj Singh for example. Or like when you question anything about the Singh Sabha lehar. 

Veerji I had to google what 'surreptitious' meant but I understand the message you are trying to convey.Do you think it could be possible that in some deep dusty archive somewhere there could be detailed documents of all measures taken against Sikhs and the Sikh faith during the colonial period?I'm very sure that the highly bureaucratic British Government kept meticulous records of all policies made and decisions taken.

But even if such documents are found,knowing the ego problem of our "community leaders" worldwide,it will still be sidelined and they would still do whatever they wished or 'felt' is right.

[Soulfinder]

7 hours ago, Jageera said:

Thanks for the  vid veerji. I've watched another one of Bhai Jagraj Singh on youtube,it was like some debate going on regarding colonialism and on the other side you could clearly see a "Kala Engrej" in it's full glory supporting his colonial masters. I'm all for free speech but at the same time we should free our minds too and remove this mental shackles of servitude.

Glad to share veer ji. I have found the video tracks where bhai jugraj singh mentions the british raj in a bbc tv debate.

 

Here is a video link with the singh sabha movement mentioned

TWGC Topic #10 Part B - Sikhs under the British rule

 

[dalsingh101]

On 3/31/2019 at 6:40 PM, Soulfinder said:

Glad to share veer ji. I have found the video tracks where bhai jugraj singh mentions the british raj in a bbc tv debate.

 

Here is a video link with the singh sabha movement mentioned

TWGC Topic #10 Part B - Sikhs under the British rule

 

Bhai ji, I watched the first 30 minutes of the first video and it was really interesting to note that Bhai Jagraj Singh essentially believed what we are alluding to here in that the movement in part was a compromise to angrej rule. I'm not saying it was all bad, but that reality and how it has affected us must be faced without people getting butt-hurt. 

Thanks for sharing. I normally don't watch long videos like that. 

[Soulfinder]

1 hour ago, dalsingh101 said:

Bhai ji, I watched the first 30 minutes of the first video and it was really interesting to note that Bhai Jagraj Singh essentially believed what we are alluding to here in that the movement in part was a compromise to angrej rule. I'm not saying it was all bad, but that reality and how it has affected us must be faced without people getting butt-hurt. 

Thanks for sharing. I normally don't watch long videos like that. 

Glad to share veer ji. I am glad veer ji you spent 30 mins as that is a really long time to watch and listen to a video. 

 

Bhai Jugraj Singh Ji did mention a lot of points and its probably the best one made on the subject in detail of the angrej raj as it must have made a lot of people suffer during the time.