Krishan is called worm/insect in Dasam Guru Darbaar!

[shastarSingh]

https://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/45625-krishan-is-called-an-insect-in-sri-dasam-granth/

[shastarSingh]

Guru Granth Sahib ji also says that God created countless krishnas and ramas.

https://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,1398

[sarabatam]

This needs to be looked at from advaita standpoint not bhagti movement standpoint with wrong mindset My avtar is better than yours. Sikhi is both advait-bhagti path/Bhagti Gyan Samucha" School

 

 

[shastarSingh]

1 hour ago, sarabatam said:

This needs to be looked at from advaita standpoint

Only Gurmat is 100% correct.

Advait is full of mistakes. Gurbani pankitis are very simple to understand.

Let's not make them complex by bringing in advait.

[shastarSingh]

1 hour ago, sarabatam said:

My avtar is better than yours.

Guru Sahib is the greatest. Instead of feeling proud to be a sikh of Guru Sahibaan, we Sikhs are trying to please the world by saying that all avtars are equal. 

[GurjantGnostic]

1 hour ago, shastarSingh said:

Guru Sahib is the greatest. Instead of feeling proud to be a sikh of Guru Sahibaan, we Sikhs are trying to please the world by saying that all avtars are equal. 

I like Sarbatams point of view, but I agree bro. It's not your avtar and my avtar It's the Avtar of Akal Purakh or those fully in Sanjog, vs Avtars of egos, even shiny ones, who are not the original state or rejoined in it. 

[shastarSingh]

18 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

I like Sarbatams point of view, but I agree bro. It's not your avtar and my avtar It's the Avtar of Akal Purakh or those fully in Sanjog, vs Avtars of egos, even shiny ones, who are not the original state or rejoined in it. 

Advait is full of mistakes. Gurmat is different from advait.

https://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,24967

Advaita Vedanta

Advaita was popularized by Shankracharya and this philosophy gives a very strange twist to the equation:

1 + 1 = 1

But in reality, the equation should be read as 0 + 1 = 1 or perhaps as 1 + 0 = 1.

They believe that there is no difference between the Jeev and Brahm. In fact, they believe that Jeev in actuality is Brahm but due to Avidya (ignorance), it considers itself to be not Brahm. In dark, a rope seems like snake and the fear and reaction of the Jeev is real, even though the object of fear – snake – never existed. They consider the world too, to be unreal and totally non-existent. They believe that due to ignorance, the world seems to be but is not. When Avidya ceases to exist or is cleared with Gyaan (jnana), the Jeev realizes that it is Brahm itself. And all this while, when the world experience was going on, the Nirguna Brahm, was totally unaware of the creation and Avidya. The Nirguna Brahm was not even aware of the world creation, then how can He be of any help?

So the equation is very strange for this philosophy:

0 + 1 = 1, where 0 represents Brahm, because according to them, Jeev is the Brahm. Or you can say that there is only Brahm and there never was the Jeeva, the world, Jada or anything else. There is only one Brahm, and nothing else exists. The world never existed.

This philosophy was more in response to the Buddhist philosophy that had overtaken whole of Indian subcontinent. It is sad and disheartening that many modern sants subscribe to this almost Atheist like philosophy. Frankly, if Brahm is totally Nirgun in the sense that it is totally aloof from the world, then it is also true that Brahm cannot hear our pleas, Ardaas and can't help us salvation. The salvation then totally depends on the effort of the Jeev. Furthermore, there can be no real concept of Prema-Bhagti because Prema Bhagti can be done if there is a real Deity as opposed to a indifferent, unaware Nirguna Brahm.


I can't help pointing out that, if all the illusion of this world and Jeev had been caused by Avidya, then where did Avidya come from, when originally there was only one Brahm and this Brahm did not create the world, the Jeev and never intended to create it either? Some Advaitins respond by saying that Avidya is Anaadee (eternal, i.e. is without a beginning), then they hurt their principle of Advaita Brahm i.e. non-dual Brahm because then Brahm is no longer alone; Avidya too is as eternal and existent as Brahm. Furthermore they make Avidya a real substance, which it is not. If they say that Avidya was caused due to ignorance of Brahm, then too they firstly they make Brahm no longer non-dual or unattributable and secondly, they inadvertently make Brahm responsible for creation of ignorance. Either way, the Advaitins cannot win with their philosophy of Avidya. Why do some of our Sikhs Sants and scholars believe in such a flawed philosophy?

[GurjantGnostic]

46 minutes ago, shastarSingh said:

Advait is full of mistakes. Gurmat is different from advait.

https://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,24967

Advaita Vedanta

Advaita was popularized by Shankracharya and this philosophy gives a very strange twist to the equation:

1 + 1 = 1

But in reality, the equation should be read as 0 + 1 = 1 or perhaps as 1 + 0 = 1.

They believe that there is no difference between the Jeev and Brahm. In fact, they believe that Jeev in actuality is Brahm but due to Avidya (ignorance), it considers itself to be not Brahm. In dark, a rope seems like snake and the fear and reaction of the Jeev is real, even though the object of fear – snake – never existed. They consider the world too, to be unreal and totally non-existent. They believe that due to ignorance, the world seems to be but is not. When Avidya ceases to exist or is cleared with Gyaan (jnana), the Jeev realizes that it is Brahm itself. And all this while, when the world experience was going on, the Nirguna Brahm, was totally unaware of the creation and Avidya. The Nirguna Brahm was not even aware of the world creation, then how can He be of any help?

So the equation is very strange for this philosophy:

0 + 1 = 1, where 0 represents Brahm, because according to them, Jeev is the Brahm. Or you can say that there is only Brahm and there never was the Jeeva, the world, Jada or anything else. There is only one Brahm, and nothing else exists. The world never existed.

This philosophy was more in response to the Buddhist philosophy that had overtaken whole of Indian subcontinent. It is sad and disheartening that many modern sants subscribe to this almost Atheist like philosophy. Frankly, if Brahm is totally Nirgun in the sense that it is totally aloof from the world, then it is also true that Brahm cannot hear our pleas, Ardaas and can't help us salvation. The salvation then totally depends on the effort of the Jeev. Furthermore, there can be no real concept of Prema-Bhagti because Prema Bhagti can be done if there is a real Deity as opposed to a indifferent, unaware Nirguna Brahm.


I can't help pointing out that, if all the illusion of this world and Jeev had been caused by Avidya, then where did Avidya come from, when originally there was only one Brahm and this Brahm did not create the world, the Jeev and never intended to create it either? Some Advaitins respond by saying that Avidya is Anaadee (eternal, i.e. is without a beginning), then they hurt their principle of Advaita Brahm i.e. non-dual Brahm because then Brahm is no longer alone; Avidya too is as eternal and existent as Brahm. Furthermore they make Avidya a real substance, which it is not. If they say that Avidya was caused due to ignorance of Brahm, then too they firstly they make Brahm no longer non-dual or unattributable and secondly, they inadvertently make Brahm responsible for creation of ignorance. Either way, the Advaitins cannot win with their philosophy of Avidya. Why do some of our Sikhs Sants and scholars believe in such a flawed philosophy?

Fascinating and in depth. I think Advaita and Bhagti movements were some of the best ever. However Sikhi had to be gifted in order for people to have the actual Truth. 

 

[shastarSingh]

Just now, GurjantGnostic said:

Fascinating and in depth. I think Advaita and Bhagti movements were some of the best ever. However Sikhi had to be gifted in order for people to have the actual Truth. 

 

I like bhagti movement.

Don't like advait. It doesn't believe that soul meets Vaheguru. In fact, soul was never created. It was always brahm.

Advait is full of complex thoughts and many of those complex thoughts are false. Some Sikhs feel that if they master these complex thoughts, they will become big gyani. It's all ego and Haume game.

[GurjantGnostic]

Just now, shastarSingh said:

I like bhagti movement.

Don't like advait. It doesn't believe that soul meets Vaheguru. In fact, soul was never created. It was always brahm.

Advait is full of complex thoughts and many of those complex thoughts are false. Some Sikhs feel that if they master these complex thoughts, they will become big gyani. It's all ego and Haume game.

Kill the ego get "Advaita" works in the simplest sense. Buddhism gets overly complicated too a lot. 

[sarabatam]

 

Its from japji sahib teeka by sant gyani gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale and sant gyani kartar singh ji bhindranwale

[sarabatam]

Also to understand context  at hand, this is must read 

 

 

[sarabatam]

Comparison study here-

 

There are something are parallel by adi sanchkaraya i asked sant jagjit singh ji harkhowale same question too.

Basically, adi sankarya philosophy is - World is illusion, Bhraman is real, World is bhraman (need to be look at the stages)

Sikhi holds similiar position (After reading sant waryam singh ji ratwara sahib discourse on beyond) - World is illusion (shalok mahala nauvan) bhram alone is real, world is bhraman ( anand sahib, asa di var).

It need to be look at the stages.

[shastarSingh]

9 hours ago, sarabatam said:

Comparison study here-

 

There are something are parallel by adi sanchkaraya i asked sant jagjit singh ji harkhowale same question too.

Basically, adi sankarya philosophy is - World is illusion, Bhraman is real, World is bhraman (need to be look at the stages)

Sikhi holds similiar position (After reading sant waryam singh ji ratwara sahib discourse on beyond) - World is illusion (shalok mahala nauvan) bhram alone is real, world is bhraman ( anand sahib, asa di var).

It need to be look at the stages.

How do u explain this? Krishan drowned in the world ocean.