Darbar Sahib surrounded by 17 churches?

[Sajjan_Thug]

Are puratan sampradays aware of this and what are they doing about this? 

 

 

[Premi]

1 hour ago, Sajjan_Thug said:

Are puratan sampradays aware of this and what are they doing about this? 

 

 

Bro, thank you for posting this. I am very surprised, but unfortunately not shocked.

I cannot see Sri Harmandir Sahib on the map...

The twitter poster seems to be a Hindu?

Is it a slight exaggeration; I mean, what is the circumference area of the churches around Sri Harmandir Sahib given on the map?

Which Sampardaye do you follow Bro? You mention Sampardaiye in many of your posts, thanks 

[dalsingh101]

 

[dalsingh101]

@Premi

 

See what I'm saying? You can get a multitude of farmers out vigorously protesting and ready to die when their pockets get threatened, but when it comes to their dharam.......

[Premi]

17 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

@Premi

 

See what I'm saying? You can get a multitude of farmers out vigorously protesting and ready to die when their pockets get threatened, but when it comes to their dharam.......

I agree, your point seems sadly true. 

 

[Sajjan_Thug]

2 hours ago, Premi said:

Bro, thank you for posting this. I am very surprised, but unfortunately not shocked.

I cannot see Sri Harmandir Sahib on the map...

The twitter poster seems to be a Hindu?

Is it a slight exaggeration; I mean, what is the circumference area of the churches around Sri Harmandir Sahib given on the map?

Which Sampardaye do you follow Bro? You mention Sampardaiye in many of your posts, thanks 

Don't forget dass already posted a video of missionaries trying to convert Sikhs INSIDE Darbar Sahib.

 

You also might find this interesting.

4th largest church in the world is in Punjab with 118,000 members.

 

Punjab witnessed 600% growth in conversions – 1800 new churches!

 

 

[dalsingh101]

4 hours ago, Sajjan_Thug said:

Are puratan sampradays aware of this and what are they doing about this? 

Forget puratan sampardayas, what do YOU do about it?

Do you challenge casteist and sociopathic behaviour amongst apnay that leads to people becoming disillusioned and seeking a better society elsewhere? Do you challenge it around you, and in your family? 

 

If not, why? 

[Sajjan_Thug]

35 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

@Premi

 

See what I'm saying? You can get a multitude of farmers out vigorously protesting and ready to die when their pockets get threatened, but when it comes to their dharam.......

The root problem is that our Sant/babas  have intellectually disarmed us by saying every path leads to Waheguru, everything is true.   Our sant/babas don't know enough about the Abrahamic religions to make that kind of judgment. Its due to their ignorance that we are being taken advantage of.

[dalsingh101]

3 minutes ago, Sajjan_Thug said:

The root problem is that our Sant/babas  have intellectually disarmed us by saying every path leads to Waheguru, everything is true.   Our sant/babas don't know enough about the Abrahamic religions to make that kind of judgment. Its due to their ignorance that we are being taken advantage of.

So basically, no, you don't challenge disgusting behaviour amongst apnay and have thrown it all on 'sant, babas'. I think it's people amongst us, who tolerate and turn a blind eye to disgusting discriminatory and abusive behaviour that are the root problem more than anything else. People try and form new societies or run to other existing ones to escape this. 

 

Badal family and their caste based politics/'parchaar' is probably more responsible for this stuff than any sant babay. 

 

[Premi]

1 minute ago, Sajjan_Thug said:

The root problem is that our Sant/babas  have intellectually disarmed us by saying every path leads to Waheguru, everything is true.   Our sant/babas don't know enough about the Abrahamic religions to make that kind of judgment. Its due to their ignorance that we are being taken advantage of.

I personally think the Babey/Kathavachaks etc have deliberately been less aggressive speaking against other faiths as they didn't want to 'stir' ; I also think that many Taksal-trained Kathavachaks know quite a lot about Abrahmic faiths (from some of Katha I have heard) but they didn't speak about them much as they focus on Sikhi. Maybe that will change now

[dalsingh101]

1 hour ago, Premi said:

I personally think the Babey/Kathavachaks etc have deliberately been less aggressive speaking against other faiths as they didn't want to 'stir' ; I also think that many Taksal-trained Kathavachaks know quite a lot about Abrahmic faiths (from some of Katha I have heard) but they didn't speak about them much as they focus on Sikhi. Maybe that will change now

I've met a few of the prominent ones and even talked to some of them. I think the problem lies more in the proclivities and mindsets of the audience myself. From what I see, the majority are involved for social/status reasons rather than learning and adapting things into their lives. 

[dalsingh101]

From the twitter comments:

 

 

Religion layer also has caste layer. This is Jatt vs Oppressed Dalits. Sikhs do not allow space to Dalits so Dalits are converting.

[Sajjan_Thug]

5 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

Forget puratan sampardayas, what do YOU do about it?

Do you challenge casteist and sociopathic behaviour amongst apnay that leads to people becoming disillusioned and seeking a better society elsewhere? Do you challenge it around you, and in your family? 

 

If not, why? 

Puratan sampradays are vitally important as they can lead the Sangat in the right direction.  

Progress will be slow at a individual level.  The sampradays collectively can make a big difference.  

100% agree.  The sewa society videos you posted, where people see with there own eyes what is happening is changing peoples mind for the better.  You can see how impacted people are when they see with own eyes.

[Sajjan_Thug]

5 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

So basically, no, you don't challenge disgusting behaviour amongst apnay and have thrown it all on 'sant, babas'. I think it's people amongst us, who tolerate and turn a blind eye to disgusting discriminatory and abusive behaviour that are the root problem more than anything else. People try and form new societies or run to other existing ones to escape this. 

 

Badal family and their caste based politics/'parchaar' is probably more responsible for this stuff than any sant babay. 

 

Dass, is talking in a very particular narrow context.  When our sant/babas are talking about other faiths they seem to think everyone believes the same thing.  Not knowing that Abrahamic religions are exclusive, in that they believe only there religion is true and other religions lead to hell.  Our sant/babas ignore the fact that other religions see us as going to hell.  Then why are they saying we all believe the same thing.

Dass, would like to know why they are saying this.

[Sajjan_Thug]

3 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

From the twitter comments:

 

 

Religion layer also has caste layer. This is Jatt vs Oppressed Dalits. Sikhs do not allow space to Dalits so Dalits are converting.

There's also a foreign layer

Huge funds are flowing in from various Christian missions based in Western countries like USA, Canada and UK. The religious conversion drive is being carried out by Christian missionaries in Punjab with funds arriving from foreign countries.

     It is believed that over Rs. 10,000 crores in foreign contributions come to India every year. This huge amount is mostly for Christian missionary activities. Gospel for Asia (GFA), which is an Oriental Orthodox Christian Mission based in Texas, USA, had donated about Rs. 600 crores for various church movements in India. GFA regularly seeks donations from Americans  for the church programs in India. This basically means getting new converts. One of its brochures says: “India’s over one billion people are …  responding to Jesus in record
numbers…”

[Sajjan_Thug]

3 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

From the twitter comments:

 

 

Religion layer also has caste layer. This is Jatt vs Oppressed Dalits. Sikhs do not allow space to Dalits so Dalits are converting.

Could there also be a colonized layer 

With centuries of west colonizing India could it also be the punjabi population is imitating there colonizers.

They want to follow there religion, speak  there language, adopt there lifestyle, imitate there customs and mannerism.

There is hugh craze of punjabis trying to imitate the western world.  Could this be the trauma of colonialism.

[dalsingh101]

On 5/25/2023 at 7:17 PM, Sajjan_Thug said:

Could there also be a colonized layer 

With centuries of west colonizing India could it also be the punjabi population is imitating there colonizers.

They want to follow there religion, speak  there language, adopt there lifestyle, imitate there customs and mannerism.

There is hugh craze of punjabis trying to imitate the western world.  Could this be the trauma of colonialism.

Could this be that 'blindness' I spoke of earlier, and a failure by certain subgroups to confront ugly home truths? I think this is quite true. People generally love their Sikh heritage, but when others oppress, isolate and attack subgroups - they will naturally seek a 'safe space' for themselves. I think tarkhans were the first to do this, so I understand the dynamic. Thankfully for tarkhans their inherited skillset and transferable skills enabled them to move from a jut dominated economy and create their own space in the panth. Other groups may not have these options.   

[dalsingh101]

On 5/25/2023 at 7:05 PM, Sajjan_Thug said:

Progress will be slow at a individual level.  The sampradays collectively can make a big difference.  

100% agree.  The sewa society videos you posted, where people see with there own eyes what is happening is changing peoples mind for the better.  You can see how impacted people are when they see with own eyes.

I think ground level upwards is infinitely more powerful than 'top down' with apnay. I know what apnay are like, they'd go to a Gurdwara, sit for 2 hours 'listening' to the parcharak and then leave and think and act exactly like they did before.  

[dalsingh101]

On 5/25/2023 at 7:06 PM, Sajjan_Thug said:

Dass, is talking in a very particular narrow context.  When our sant/babas are talking about other faiths they seem to think everyone believes the same thing.  Not knowing that Abrahamic religions are exclusive, in that they believe only there religion is true and other religions lead to hell.  Our sant/babas ignore the fact that other religions see us as going to hell.  Then why are they saying we all believe the same thing.

Dass, would like to know why they are saying this.

The I'd say certain people are relying on 'modren' sant babay  too much and not using their brains to khoj their heritage when this is so much easier than it's ever been in the past due to technology and access to literature/manuscripts and other khojees.