Guroo, the Guroo's Word (Shabd) and Vaheguroo

[Niranjana]

Gur Fateh!

I refer to the below mentioned lines from Jap Ji Sahib and would be grateful for the forum’s guidance on understanding the meaning behind this paath. The translation is the one provided by Sikhitothemax, however all together translations I have come across provide pretty similar terminology, it is the second line in particular that I would appreciate some guidance “The Guru is Shiva, the Guru is Vishnu and Brahma; the Guru is Paarvati and Lakhshmiâ€.

Following from this, I would appreciate for any help in understanding the relationship between the implied trinity of the Guroo, the Guroo’s Word (Shabd) and Vaheguroo.

guramukh naadha(n) guramukh vaedha(n) guramukh rehiaa samaaee ||

The Guru's Word is the Sound-current of the Naad; the Guru's Word is the Wisdom of the Vedas; the Guru's Word is all-pervading.

gur eesar gur gorakh baramaa gur paarabathee maaee ||

The Guru is Shiva, the Guru is Vishnu and Brahma; the Guru is Paarvati and Lakhshmi.

I acknowledge this is a personal issue for many, so opinions will certainly be forthcoming, however, I would be thankful if references could be provided where possible to allow further study into this matter.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Niranjana

[Hari]

The first line is pretty straight forward in understanding really.

The second line, which states that Guru's Word is Mahesh (Isar), Vishnu (Gorakh), Brahma and Mother Parvati can confuse those of lesser Buddhi.

The second line refers to the Traigun (Rajo, Satto and Tamo), personified by Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh respectively.Parbati Mai refers to Nature.Traigun are the 3 primary evolutes of Nature (Mai/Maya).

Nature (matter/energy) and Her 3 primary evolutes or sons, the Traigun.

Hope I've helped, a bit.

[Nihal_Kaur]

Basically to me, the word GUR is referring to God or the personification of him/her.

So we're being told that Vaheguru is all the deities, Demi Gods, etc and none is without Vaheguru.

I can't quite put into words what I think, though it is clear in my mind.

i.e ek onkar satgur parshad to me is saying that only with the grace of Vaheguru (ie HIS/HER parshad) can you....

So GUR and GURU get confused sometimes I think. To explain ....

" Sabh thi vadha satgur, nanak, jin kal rakhee miree"

the comma's mean that the light of guru nanak is saying the true GURU is vaheguru who will also look after him also. I have seen in many places something else written.

Although this is just my perception and will probably change tomorrow.

Also i think its a damn shame we don't have schools to learn this vidiya. Meanings, correct recitals etc.

[Guest]

Waheguru is Naam, Waheguru was inside Demi-gods, Waheguru is inside us, Waheguru is outside us, Waheguru is inside animals and plantes, nowhere is widout Waheguru. Waheguru is da Life Force itself and more. Waheguru is widout limit and Waheguru cant be defined.

[Mr §ingh]

VERy nice way of putting it RupZ :bow:

[Seeker]

As per Gurbani , it never refers to Guru as some physical being because Gurbani talks of true knowledge (Gyan) to be as the only Guru . Kabir sahib says "Kabeera jahan gyaan tahan dharam hai , jahan jhooth tehan paap" .

Even when Guru Nanak sahib was questioned 'Kavan guru kiska to chera ?" he replied "mera shabad guru surat dhun chera " shabd guru means that true knowledge is my guru.

Many a times the word gur means the true technique . As sometimes we often say kee us manukk ne business de saare gur sikh laeyae hann , means that he has learnt the art or the technique of that business. Similarly 'satgur' means the true knowledge , the universal truth .

This is what I feel gur and guru means as per Gurbani.

these words guide us to true knowledge as to be our guru and not any particular human being as so many sants and saadhoos and so called baba jees are now a days in the market who are befooling the masses and who use the terms from gurbani for this t befool others as they keep on saying gurbani says 'Gur bin koye na utras paar' And they thereby signify the importance of guru. In real sense gurbani is talking of the true universal knowledge to be as gur and not some physical being.

For that Guru sahib even says , so mukh jalo jit kaho thakur joni' means he uses an idiom to stress the importance of the message that 'ooh mukh taan jalan jog hai , jehra kehanda hai kee thakur yeah guru shareerak hunda hai "