Aryans came from india and Not Europe...

[Guest]

I got this in email. Like to share it with the sangat

THE ARYAN PEOPLE are the oldest group of people known today. They made the first books, philosophies, & poems in the world (The Vedas). They spoke the first major language (Sanskrit) that influenced all of the European languages. They taught the world taught how to meditate, purify the body, & connect to god (YOGA), and taught the world how to do more sexually instead of the same ol missionary position (THE KAMA SUTRA). BUDDHA himself was not East Asian, he was an ARYAN from ANCIENT INDIA.

Before Muslim people invaded and forced everyone to turn to Islam, the entire region known today as North India, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, and the rest surrounding areas, were all known as the land of the ARYANS. (ANCIENT INDIA)

Have you ever noticed that most of the people from North India, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, and some of the other countries in that region, look almost the same? If you take a typical North Indian, Afghan, Iranian, Iraqi, etc. etc. and saw them walking around in any of these countries, you wouldnt be able to point them out. (Example, if you were to see Osama Bin Laden walking around INDIA, would u be able to say he's not INDIAN? Or if you had a North Indian actor walking around IRAN, would u be able to say he's not IRANIAN?) Or if you had an AFGHAN walking around IRAQ, would you u be able to say he didnt look IRAQI? That is becuase there all from the same blood, except now there seperated because of different languages, religions, & cultures.

There is not such thing as the Afghan race, Persian race, Indian Race, or the Arab race. All these countries have groups of ethnicities, that all come from the same ARYAN ancestors. To understand what I mean you first have to look at each country and the main groups they have.

Here are the major groups from those countries.

NORTH INDIA - Sindhi, Punjabi, Kashmiri, Rajput's, & Haryanvi - All Aryan People.

AFGHANISTAN - Pashtun, Baloch, Hazara, - All Aryan people

IRAN - Persian, Mazandarani, Gilaki, Kurdish - All Aryan people

IRAQ - Arab, Kurdish - All Aryan People (Side note: When I say Arab, I mean Middle Eastern Arab, not Black or any other groups that may speak Arabic.)

Now there are a ton of other countries (Like ARMENIA, EGYPT, LEBANON, TURKEY, ITALY, and many others) that have ARYAN heritage, but it gets really complicated to go indebt. (Example: Some Aremenians, Lebanese, Italians, & Greeks, look very similar and some are really white with blonde hair. Also some Egyptians look very simialr, and some are really black). Here are some reasons why some of them look a little different:

1. Some of these countries have groups of people that in time mixed with Europeans or other kinds of groups.

2. Some of these groups lived in certain areas which over time affected there physical features.

3. Some of these groups eat certain foods and that can also affect their physical features.

Try looking at a map without borders. Now think logically and go back in time to the old ass days, before countries were estbalished. INDIA, is right next to IRAN, and AFGHANISTAN, and in those days kingdoms ruled everywhere, or groups of people ruled themselves. That shows its the same freakin blood.

In AFGHANISTAN the cities of Kabul & Kandahar are Sanskrit words. The Amu Darya river is also a Sanskrit word.....AFGHANISTAN also has a region called the Hindu Kush region.

Also in the IRAN/AFGHANISTAN region there were tons of Hindu & Buddhist statues but many of the Muslim rulers later burnt then all down, and tore them all apart.....Even just 2 years ago, there were still some huuuuge Buddhist statues left, and the Taliban sat in bulldozers rippin em apart.

The word IRAN comes from the word ARYAN

The Swastik sighn is also from the HINDU ARYANS. The reason ADOLF HITLER and alot of other white people say that ARYANS came from Europe, is because first they wantd to feel superior and take all the credit for the Aryan history, and second, Britishers wanted an excuse to rule the whole INDIAN area. So they made up this bullshit about how ARYANS came from Europe and invaded INDIA. They then said hey since all you guys basically cum from us, we have an excuse to rule all of u.

Hitler then comes along and he loves that story. The only difference is, he felt the ARYAN PEOPLE lost there superiority by invading. So he then takes the ARYAN HINDU SWASTIK sighn, turns it backwards, and goes around killing jews. So thats why you hear white people say, "ARYAN NATION!"

ARYANS CAME FROM INDIA, NOT EUROPE.

So what do u guys think?

[Inder Singh]

I'm very interested in this topic and have done good amounts of research into it.

The aryans originated from an area around the caspian sea some drifted into Europe while others drifted towards asia and India. The Aryans were a light skinned race and were proficent in the use of weapons, upon reaching northern India they encountered a dark skinned race called Dravidans. They defeated the Dravidans and pushed them into southern India.

A lot of historians talk about civilisation growing first in Egypt and mesopotamia (middle east) but one of the first civilised cities was called Mohenjo-Daro in northern India built around 4000BC (not sure of exact date thats just from memory)

the majority of northern Indians are descended from aryans

A point i'm not sure about in the above post is about Arabs being Aryans i'm sure Arabs and Jews are descended from semites. The persians were definetly Aryans they overthrew the semitic rule of the assyrians in ancient mesopatamia.

[Guest Javanmard]

Aryans are not a race! The aryas were an ancient tribe and the term aryan nowadays applies to a family of languages only. Please stop this Neo-Nazi nonsense straight away!!!

[Guest]

Guys,

All these races, castes are there and will be there but this is 2004 and we should be more concerned about saving human race.

You should be aware of this basic fact that no one can claim to be purely from one "race" so why even worry about it.

All these "race" stuff just makes you slave. You come here in United State of America and ask any white male or female about their race. They got like 4 blood mixed in their body. One will say im irish+french and other one will say im scottish+german+Indian. Tell me how are you going to tell what race they come from?

Here is something good for all of you to read from dictionary.com

[French, from Old French, from Old Italian razza, race, lineage.]

Usage Note: The notion of race is nearly as problematic from a scientific point of view as it is from a social one. European physical anthropologists of the 17th and 18th centuries proposed various systems of racial classifications based on such observable characteristics as skin color, hair type, body proportions, and skull measurements, essentially codifying the perceived differences among broad geographic populations of humans. The traditional terms for these populationsCaucasoid (or Caucasian), Mongoloid, Negroid, and in some systems Australoidare now controversial in both technical and nontechnical usage, and in some cases they may well be considered offensive. (Caucasian does retain a certain currency in American English, but it is used almost exclusively to mean “white†or “European†rather than “belonging to the Caucasian race,†a group that includes a variety of peoples generally categorized as nonwhite.) The biological aspect of race is described today not in observable physical features but rather in such genetic characteristics as blood groups and metabolic processes, and the groupings indicated by these factors seldom coincide very neatly with those put forward by earlier physical anthropologists. Citing this and other pointssuch as the fact that a person who is considered black in one society might be nonblack in anothermany cultural anthropologists now consider race to be more a social or mental construct than an objective biological fact.

[Shasterkovich]

I cannot agree with the implication that the concept of "race" is in itself delusional. Perception of race is extremely important. It's possible to argue (not implausibly) that this alleged "constuct" is the primary motivation behind war (i.e. to spread one's genes in new fields). This would be a Darwinian interpretation. If true, this would make the concept of "race" a factor at the centre of any equation explaining human behaviour.

Hence, the hypothesis that it is an anthropological "construct" does not rebut the hypothesis (which seems to me to be highly probable) that the construct itself runs parallel to the genetic reality of different races (i.e. Caucasoid, Australoid, Mongoloid, etc.)

As for the problems that some may perceive with old-fashioned classification of the human species into races (with archaic terms like Mongoloid, Negroid, etc.), a clearer perspective may be had if you approach human behaviour not as a set of random events, but "random" events following a predetermined pattern.

My theory is as follows. The concept of race is a matted lock made up of 3 hairs: evolution (and evolutionary psychology being the dynamo), warfare (representing immigration) and geography (human adaptability - ties in with evolution). The secret of how this lock grows is tied is a fractal equation in maths. Eventually, you always end up with the same set of variation: some people with broad noses, and some with flat. Some with melanin (more or less) and some without.

The reason for why the above theory is true is that within the world-system, a concept of infinite variation does exist, but only certain variants can survive. Hence, nature tends to proliferate variation. I term this a "shotgun approach": one of the designs has to be good enough to survive and reproduce. Others, by nature of their design, may not. This explains war as well, because there must always be genetic variation, otherwise there is no contingency in case environmental change wipes out a contemporary successful model of a system.

I hope the above makes sense.

[Singh47]

I would contribute to this thread, but it will just be deleted and the entire thread will be locked. So what the use....

[Mission_Impossible]

The post highlighted by brother N30 SINGH is utter BS, sounds more like Hindu propoganda, I would ignore it, I have done years of research in to Aryans and will post soon, just too busy now, I would like to hear Singh's views though, please do not delete anyone's posts, let's hear everyone out first. Thanks,

MI

[Guest]

I dont have any view MI veer ji ... just got this in email so i posted it... i didnt even read the bloody thing!...

[Sukhi]

i think race is just a notion created to help us segregate between ppl we consider to be different from us. i really don't see much of a point in the entire race and caste thing.

[Guest]

Nice reply Sukhi_V.

[Sukhi]

tank u.

[Jamuka]

A point i'm not sure about in the above post is about Arabs being Aryans i'm sure Arabs and Jews are descended from semites. The persians were definetly Aryans they overthrew the semitic rule of the assyrians in ancient mesopatamia.

If I'm not mistaken, semite means mix. In short Arabs and Jews are not a pure race.

Aryans are not a race! The aryas were an ancient tribe and the term aryan nowadays applies to a family of languages only. Please stop this Neo-Nazi nonsense straight away!!!

Why are you so bloody intolerant? Aryans ARE a race wheather you like it or not and Punjabis may not be the real thing but they definitely are close. If I'm not mistaken Punjabis are either Indo Aryans or Scythians. If you ask me, the theory of Punjabis being descendans of Scythians makes more sense to me.

All these races, castes are there and will be there but this is 2004 and we should be more concerned about saving human race.

What is wrong in discussing history? The problem is that we are surrounded by sensitive people who believe that any discussion on race amounts to racism.

I cannot agree with the implication that the concept of "race" is in itself delusional. Perception of race is extremely important.

No it's not and I know that for a fact.

[Guest]

Why are you so bloody intolerant? Aryans ARE a race wheather you like it or not and Punjabis may not be the real thing but they definitely are close. If I'm not mistaken Punjabis are either Indo Aryans or Scythians. If you ask me, the theory of Punjabis being descendans of Scythians makes more sense to me.

You are mistaken.

Punjabi ancestry consists of several different peoples. Even today, Punjabis are not a homogenous ethnic group. Not all of us are of the same blood. It seems unlikely to me that a Punjabi of Mianwali, Punjab province, Pakistan.. would share the same ancestry with a Punjabi living in Jind, Haryana state, India...

What most of us Punjabis do share is language and culture. This is what binds us together.

[Sukhi]

ya know... one of the courses i took this year is anthropology. and something that they said really turned my perspectives around. something about race that was discussed is how it's a cultural construct. there really aren't any concrete biological differences. we just talk as if there are because we see differences in outer appearances and whatnot.

and here's something else...

race has been created by ppl who are attempting to divide and conquer... and it's worked so well that it spread this far and wide. amazing how colonialism continues to affect us in this day and age...

quit with the segregation. let's try to eliminate the hatred and just get back to bein human beings and try n be humane with each other...

[Jamuka]

Punjabi ancestry consists of several different peoples. Even today, Punjabis are not a homogenous ethnic group. Not all of us are of the same blood. It seems unlikely to me that a Punjabi of Mianwali, Punjab province, Pakistan.. would share the same ancestry with a Punjabi living in Jind, Haryana state, India...

When I took a class titled 'Central Asian History' I was told by my professor that Punjabis are descendans of Aryan stock. But I had my doubts so I did a bit of reading. There is a new theory that Punjabi are descendans of Scythians. You claim that Punjabis are not a homogenous group and I wholeheartedly agree. My grandmother looks Chinese and she has no known Chinese mix in her and yet she was a a full blooded Punjaban! And then I've come across pure Punjabis who look European.

If I'm not mistaken, Scythians are not a homogenous group which is why I believe the Scythian theory makes more sense.

The next question we need to ask ourselves are, are Punjabis not homogenous because of different tribes/races getting together to form todays Punjabis OR Punjabis have intermarried with various other races that invaded Punjab in the course of it's history.

race has been created by ppl who are attempting to divide and conquer... and it's worked so well that it spread this far and wide. amazing how colonialism continues to affect us in this day and age...

No it has been not. You've been brainwashed from a young age to believe that any attempt to study the human race amounts to racism.

quit with the segregation. let's try to eliminate the hatred and just get back to bein human beings and try n be humane with each other...

I'm curious, can you please point out the hatred in this thread topic? So are all those scientists who do studies on race and genetics are racist? Did you know that certain races are more prone to certain deseases and studies have helped them to counter them? Do you realise how ludicrous your assertions are?

FYI I had to undergo plastic surgery on my nose when I was 18 but I had to wait until I was 21 because of my race. Apparently Asian noses stop growing at the age of 18 but not people of Aryan/Indo Aryan/Punjabi stock or whatever you want to call it. Had my doctor not been aware of this, the surgery would have been a complete disaster.

There is nothing wrong in wanting to study the human race. It is a fact that we humans belong to different races and thats that. I suggest you seek counseling or psychiatatric help to combat your hyper sensitivity to this subject matter.

[Guest]

Punjabis are not homogenous because the land we come from, Punjab, has been invaded by several different races of people.

A number of these invasions were not simple occupation by a foreign force. They involved the migration (whether mass migration or migration in waves) of entire peoples.

We do not have one ancestry. Aryans may have at one time obliterated and expelled previous inhabitants of Punjab and kept themselves separate from those people, but Aryan settlers in Punjab were then also overrun by new waves of peoples. The only difference being that post-Aryan invaders mixed their blood and contributed to the cultures and language of Punjab.

I read an interesting article awhile back regarding Kushana influence on Punjabi language. Punjabi is very unique among Indo-Aryan languages in that it has three nasal tones and other sounds not found in other Aryan language. These tones/sounds are however found in Far Eastern languages such as the Chinese dialects.

Could this legacy on Punjabi have been left by the Kushanas? Most likely... If so, then how much do we also owe our ancestry to them?

Just one example of mixture in Punjab...

We can also look more into relationship Punjab has with Persians. How many pre-Islamic words do Punjabi and Persian have in common? This is something i am currently looking into...

[Sukhi]

No it has been not. You've been brainwashed from a young age to believe that any attempt to study the human race amounts to racism.

studying the human race is quite different from creating a stratified system in which one group of ppl are considered superior to others. obviously i can tell the difference between racism and studying human cultures. the point is to remember that differences in physical appearance and geography do not affect the fact that all human beings are equal.

as for colonialism affecting us today, all you need to do is take a good look around the world. the problems in sri lanka and south africa among other places stem from colonial times. not to mention the tension between india and pakistan. but i'm sure you already knew that.

I'm curious, can you please point out the hatred in this thread topic?

i wasn't specifically referring to this thread, but rather the conditions of the world in general in which racism is as rampant as any infectious disease.

So are all those scientists who do studies on race and genetics are racist? Did you know that certain races are more prone to certain deseases and studies have helped them to counter them?

yes, i'm aware of this fact. and i also understand the mechanism behind it. but this doesn't mean much. it's another variation in the gene pool of a group of ppl who have lived together in the same environment.

Do you realise how ludicrous your assertions are?

please don't insult my ideas and opinions. i haven't insulted urs. and if i have, i apologize for it.

FYI I had to undergo plastic surgery on my nose when I was 18 but I had to wait until I was 21 because of my race. Apparently Asian noses stop growing at the age of 18 but not people of Aryan/Indo Aryan/Punjabi stock or whatever you want to call it. Had my doctor not been aware of this, the surgery would have been a complete disaster.

take a look at what i said about ppl with the same gene pool.

There is nothing wrong in wanting to study the human race. It is a fact that we humans belong to different races and thats that. I suggest you seek counseling or psychiatatric help to combat your hyper sensitivity to this subject matter.

i suggest u keep ur medical opinion to urself.

[Nek]

Type in "UPDATE ON THE ARYAN INVASION DEBATE" into google. It is an online book with a lot of information but is very good, that is if you want something that goes into a lot of depth. He presents both sides of the story.

I asked about the origins of the aryan theory on another forum and this was the reply i got from one particular member

My two cents on the subject is that the idea of "Aryans" as a race is ridiculous and stupid and reflects a racist view of history. In Indian languages Aryan means "Noble" nothing less, nothing more. In the Vedas it says "Oh Indra, you made Aryans out of the wild people". Obviously you can't change somebody's race, but you can make them cultured. So the verse is saying Oh Indra (God, Indra was never a historical figure) you made these people cultured.

Also, in Buddhism, the Four Aryan Truths (type that into a google search) are the most central portions of Buddhism, and OBVIOUSLY Buddha wasn't referring to a race, just Noble. That is how Buddhists translate Four Aryan Truths: The Four Noble Truths.

As far as Indian literature is concerned - there is ample evidence that Aryan refers to Noble, as opposed to any certain race.

But check out that online book. http://www.bharatvani.org/books/ait/

[Sardu]

I always wonder.. How much time do ppl have to think/search all this.. but, on second thought, it might be there hobby, their wayof living life.. Still, I request/support for living in present.. Enjoy the life to the fullest.. be good.. and die..

[Guest Sardar Moderator Singh]

With DDay being a big feature in the press at present, I would like to know what are the forum's views on the use of terms such as "Aryan" and the insistence of Punjabis, predominantly Jats to portray themselves as Aryans?

[Guest]

Just because the Nazis hijacked this term "Aryan" does not mean it should be disowned.

But you know what paaji, Hindustani and other north Indian Hindus throw this term around and insist they are of Aryan descent as much as anyone else.

Common Jatt claims about their ancestry are actually on the lines of being a 'noble warrior race' who migrated from Scandinavia or Mars or someplace. Either that or they are under the belief they are descended from Scythian warriors. Both are actually as stupid as eachother since Jat is not a race, ethnicity or anything else but a caste. A Jat of Punjab is not of the same background as a Jat from UP or Assam or wherever else.

Thing with Punjabi Jatts (Sikh) living in West is they are unaware of the fact that Jat is a caste label carried by people living outside of Punjab also. There are far more non-Punjabi Jats than Punjabis of Jat caste. Im sure these few misguided kids would get a shock if they ever met a Bhaiyaa Jat who is not "Tall, fair-skinned or with light brown eyes or sharp features" (Which is the image Jatts try to portray themselves as).

Anyway, it is Brahmins and Khatris of Punjab who have made more of a claim to be of 'pure' or of 'direct' Aryan descent. Dont know about Brahmins but Khatris (I am of this background) of Punjab are as mixed blooded as rest of Punjabis. We are no different ethnically from eachother... I know so-called "Jatts", "Sayeeds", "Qureshis", "Tharkans" whatever who can easily pass as being my brother.

I dont know why some people promote an ethnic or racial division between Punjabis on caste lines when non exists.

[Sukhi]

I dont know why some people promote an ethnic or racial division between Punjabis on caste lines when non exists.

ppl like to think that they're better or different from others. and this gives them that sense of individuality. god forbid we all forget about our differences and just treat each other with fairness and equality... :roll:

[Sardu]

ppl like to think that they're better or different from others. and this gives them that sense of individuality. god forbid we all forget about our differences and just treat each other with fairness and equality... :roll:

Hmm..Mushkil hai... :cry:

[Sukhi]

just because it's difficult it doesn't mean that it's impossible for us to try to treat each other as equals. it's the fact that it's difficult that makes it something to strive for even more. consider it a challenge that'll end up makin u so much better if u even so much as try it...

[Sardu]

just because it's difficult it doesn't mean that it's impossible for us to try to treat each other as equals. it's the fact that it's difficult that makes it something to strive for even more. consider it a challenge that'll end up makin u so much better if u even so much as try it...

First thing first.. Impressive.

now my argument...

i can try.. you can try.. but not the whole world. its human nature.. human nature doesn't change. and also, i think, god also doesnt want us that way... islike thoda muskil hai.. sabka ek saath change hona..