Shift in Philosphy of Sikhism after Guru Arjun Dev

[commander]

I think there is no need to carry any arms around in today's word.

May I ask how you came to that conclusion? It is a fact that most amritdhari Sikhs carry a Kirpaan these days only as a show-piece, but that only demonstrates how much of a "Khalsa" they really are. They can't defend themselves, much less anyone else.

Will you even go so far as saying that martial training is not required in "today's world"?

[Lion King]

I can't believe what i'm hearing, some of my own friends say its not even important to keep your hair or carry shastar, its inside which counts. When i hear people say this, it really does show that we are in kaal yug, these people are distorting Sikhi...by saying this your throwing everything back in Guru Gobind Singh Ji's face for which he sacrificed everything for. I agree its whats inside which counts but the external side is equally just as important. To carry shastar is not only to protect one self, but to protect all others around you also.

[dassan das]

dear neo

]

Defination of Kirpan- Kirpa-aaan. Loka taie kirpa karni and defend not only yourself and defend people who are weak and who are in needy.

Lets take a scenario-

You going with your family to super market..just walking down the street. Somone mugged your family. What do you do then???

a. piss in your pants

b. cry like a baby

c. beg

or

d. try to negotiate- If not then at last restort use your shastar(kirpan) to defend your family/stranger by using sava-raksha skills (check out- http://www.shastarvidiya.org/htmls/shastar...iques_past.html )

neo i dont thinnk you should say this because you yourself wear a small kirpan with your kanga.

if you wore a gatra one then i think it would be ok for you to say this.

i recommend that everyone one should wear a gatra wale kirpan.

bhul chuk maaf

[giani_g]

I agree with Lion King its this kind of attitude among the elder (as in the pre generation x'ers) non Khalsa that has caused a great deal of apostasy in the youth. Though the elder non Khalsa generation may "appear" to care but because of this attitude (that it "doesn't matter") the "Sikh" youth don't really care if it doesn't involve bhangra or barcardi.

Don't misinterpret me I am only critiscising those Sikhs who keep using the "what's inside" excuse to avoid gurbani, gurdwara etc There are plenty of Sikhs who are non Khalsa and are genuinely good but they never put down or even suggest that the Khalsa as is unnecessary or obsolete.

[giani_g]

"neo i dont thinnk you should say this because you yourself wear a small kirpan with your kanga.

if you wore a gatra one then i think it would be ok for you to say this.

i recommend that everyone one should wear a gatra wale kirpan." - Dassan Das

Well I disagree with you, not only is it better than having no weapon at all, also you'd be surprised how scared some people are of it.

[deepThinkerSikh]

Well I disagree with you, not only is it better than having no weapon at all, also you'd be surprised how scared some people are of it.

That is absolutely wrong to do:

Scaring people is not what Sikhisim teaches. Sikhism want to spread brotherhood.

Lets go over a situation:

If a child go to School with Gatra wale Kirpan, how he will be able to make any friends. He is transmitting animity. He is saying I don't trust any one of you so that is why I'm keeping a big sword with me all the time. How anyone will be willing to mingle with anyone who exhibits hate.

Let me again remind you that Guru ji said:

Hum Nahi Changee bura Nahi Koi

[Beast]

"I am not good, noone is bad"

lol, what does this have to do with defending dharam?

And why does this dude feel that the kirpan is for a person's self-defence? It is a Sikh's duty to protect dharam, wether it be his own or another's.

If a child goes to school with a Gatra wale kirpan then some of the school children can feel safer because of it. This child will help protect them from any danger.

[giani_g]

Well I'll reply to Deepthinker despite his ban.

I was commenting on the small kirpans that were being discussed as well as self defence situations. You took it out of context by suggesting that the kirpan would out when not needed, I was commenting on the fear of the aggressor which would be fine.

[Sher E Punjab]

Oye NEWAGESIKH

O yaar kyon sir khan laga a, agar tenu sikh dharam di koi bi gal changi nahin lagdi, ta tu kise chrstn/Islam website te ja and make friends. Agar tu SGGS ji ja kise bi Guru ji de bare kuch gand bakya ta ethe tenu dushman hi milne. You say you dont need 5 K, but WE SIKH respect them, and ALWAYS ready to protect it. We are here to learn more about Sikhi and chat with friends. Asi te kirpan bi paoni, kaish bi rakhne, kanga bi rakhna, kashera bi paona te Karra bi paona. Waheguru tenu chardian kala bakshe.

NANAK NAAM CHARDI KALA, TERE BHANE SARBAT DA BHALA