No joke..please read brothers

[Mekhane'ch Jannat]

wrong masterbation destroys your ability to gain ridh sidhian, that is why nath siddhas were celibate they wanted siddhi. real Knowlwdge cannot be destroyed by ejaculation, much worse than masterbation is fantasizing, fantasizing about women or anything, daydreaming is much more detrimental to spiritual progress than masterbating.

[wahegurubol]

jannat, so what are you trying to say?that masturbation is alright ! ... LOL .. i cant believe the detiorating state of the panth today. LOL oh my god !

[Mekhane'ch Jannat]

yes it is alright.

denying certain desires is good others is bad you must cultivate self knowledge. A person may decide to stop this habit when he has overcome it psychologically. A premature repression of this habit can lead to worse problems.

imagine shaking a big bottle of cola, it will fizz up and if strong enough it will splurge out. The same with the psyche, if the repressed sexual energy is not put into something, it will explode elsewhere.

[Niranjana]

Niranjana, its very simple. Masturbate and then try to meditate at Amrit Vela, try to go deep in meditation and you will know how masturbation affects the human mind n a negative way.

i dont claim myself to be perfect brahmacharya or celibate...

masturbation destroys all the spiritual practice u did.... its a devastation at a nuclear scale.

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w-bol,

I have no need or desire to Masterbate at Amritvela - you weirdo!!!

I asked you a simple question, here it is again:

"Please expand on what "negative entities/spirits" you refer to, this would be interesting to understand. You seem like you're an educated man, so I would be grateful for a fairly comprehensive answer as this is something I personally do not understand."

Now kindly answer the question (i.e. what are these 'negative entities/spirits' you refer to) and kindly refrain from absurd responses like asking me to have a wank in the ambrosial hours of the morning.

Similarly, I am not concerned with you being or not being a "perfect brahmacharya or celibate", that is none of my business, but you made a statement which I would like to understand as alluded to above, please keep your answer relevant.

[wahegurubol]

Jannat, what you are trying to say is based on western psychology or interpretation that trying to stop masturbation can lead dangerous problems, but this will happen only when the mind is thinking masturbation and the body is forced not to do masturbation.

However, with Gurbani from my personal experience you can stop the mind from thinking masturbation.. .infact it will stop automatically and one can remain without doing masturbation as long as one wants. The problem arises when we forget gurbani and naam simran, that is the time that illicit thoughts crap into the mind.

Niranjana, Yes masturbation or infact indulging in any negative anti-gurmat thing will attract negative astral spirits or entities to you. Someone who has done enough meditation can actually see this happening in the astral realm. A person who doesnt have enough spiritual wealth will not be able to see this happening, but a person who can go deep into meditation can see the negative effects of masturbation and sexual thoughts.

[Mekhane'ch Jannat]

the reason illicit thoughts, as you say, enter the mind upon forgetting naam simran, is because they are still there

you are not dealing with the root of the problem, because to do this it is hard and i don't blame you for being weak. And covering over difficult questions with blanket answers.

[Niranjana]

Niranjana, Yes masturbation or infact indulging in any negative anti-gurmat thing will attract negative astral spirits or entities to you. Someone who has done enough meditation can actually see this happening in the astral realm. A person who doesnt have enough spiritual wealth will not be able to see this happening, but a person who can go deep into meditation can see the negative effects of masturbation and sexual thoughts.

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W-bol,

Again, you keep avoiding the question with your constant fixation on masturbating. For the record, I am NOT (repeat NOT) arguing for the pro-masturbation camp if that helps alleviate your repetitive hammering on that point. You don't need to convince me on this item as it frankly a subject that in my opinion does not need to be discussed, focusing as best one can on simran abhyas and gurbani viakhia, non-issues like whether a 14 year old boy is going to play with himself when Mummy and Daddy aren't home will sort themselves out easily enough.

This obession with discussion whether 'cracking one off' is sin or not is the real 'Western Cultural' obsession, hence why Indic traditions don't waste time discussing this type of nonsense.

What I am asking you to expand on what these "negative astral spirits or entities" are? You make us of such grand references without even an iota of qualifying what you are refering to or what you mean. Please kindly state what these "negative astral spirits or entities" are, or at least provide some references by which to look into the subject.

Otherwise, your assertion amounts to little more than pseudo-spiritual mumbo-jumbo.

Thanks,

Niranjana.

[Xylitol]

Mekhane'ch Jannat, interesteing example. I actually heard Gurkuka Singh using the fizzy shaken up bottle of soda as an example for masturbation. he said it's like taken a shaken bottle and jamming a pencil through it. all that energy is lost.

if you focus more on bani, and less on sex, even if you don't masturbate at all, you'll be ok. even if there are still strong urges, you'll be ok, just do more paath. i'm speaking from personal experience and a background in psychology here. as for night emissions, those will go away by themselves when you stop thinking about it so much.

i hardly think western culture is a good example of sexual health - it happens to be the most sex obsessed culture there is. psychologically speaking, that's unhealthy, not complete abstinence from masturbation.

Eastern medicinal and yogic traditions teach that a special kind of energy is associated with our reproductive fluid. In qi-gong this energy is called jin. If we give in to kaam too much, this energy is reduced and the body wastes resources to replenish what is lost. The body can become weakened and prone to illness. those articles i posted above discuss this.

[Mekhane'ch Jannat]

It is not helpful to say the things w/bol is saying. People must make their own decisions. I agree with xylitol, but, creating pressure in the coke bottle is relatively easy once you know how. The difficult part is retaining this shaktee, and putting it to good use. That is why conservation of sexual energy must be carried out by an individual who has knowledge of himself and a deep knowledge of gurbani, and other systems, preferably under supervision of a spiritual elder who knows better. w/bol is aimless he will create shaktee for what end? He will no doubt reply to merge with waheguru, but what does this mean this aim is wishy washy, the nuances of this concept have to be brought out in order to formulate a concrete aim which the accumulated shaktee can be utilised for. Who is waheguru? And what merges? etc etc. Knowledge is the only way to retain shakti or spiritual energy, not dead knowledge living knowledge. If an individual cultivates his shakti without knowledge he will be a stupid saint, he will have energy but won’t no what end to use it for. Anyone who is honest to themselves should ask what their aims are in spiritual life, many people do not know.

[wahegurubol]

What I am asking you to expand on what these "negative astral spirits or entities" are? You make us of such grand references without even an iota of qualifying what you are refering to or what you mean. Please kindly state what these "negative astral spirits or entities" are, or at least provide some references by which to look into the subject.

Otherwise, your assertion amounts to little more than pseudo-spiritual mumbo-jumbo.

Thanks,

Niranjana.

Niranjna,what I said about negative astral entities is something that I have experienced personally and hence it is not something that can be easily explained unless one hasnt experience the astral realm.

Well all live in the physical world... but when we meditate and when we loose conscious of our physical body during meditation, we can experience the more subtle worlds and the more subtle things happening around us... There is another world that exists which is called the astral world ! ... or in punjabi and in gubani it is mentioned as suksham world or suksham shareer. After death when you leave your physical body you leave it through your astral body or suksham shareer.

The Suksham shareer is attracted to thoughts/energies depending on wether they are positive or negative.

For example when people do a lot of masturbation or a lot of bad things, then these astral spirits who also like such thoughts get attracted towads you through your thoughts. So after masturbating if you meditate really really deep then you can vividl feel astral entities of the same like !

We are not independent of these astral entities or spirits. They interact with our lives at all times. If you litsen to the suleman tape, he explains how the preth atmas (negative astral beings) use to get attracted to people who had died of negative vikaars.

So it is the same for someoone who masturbate then they unknowingly/knowingly depending on their avatha attract negative spirits towards them.

I hope I have explained this to you the best I can, I am not sure if you will agree with me, but its true... cos I have experienced the astral world.

[wahegurubol]

It is not helpful to say the things w/bol is saying. People must make their own decisions. I agree with xylitol, but, creating pressure in the coke bottle is relatively easy once you know how. The difficult part is retaining this shaktee, and putting it to good use. That is why conservation of sexual energy must be carried out by an individual who has knowledge of himself and a deep knowledge of gurbani, and other systems, preferably under supervision of a spiritual elder who knows better. w/bol is aimless he will create shaktee for what end? He will no doubt reply to merge with waheguru, but what does this mean this aim is wishy washy, the nuances of this concept have to be brought out in order to formulate a concrete aim which the accumulated shaktee can be utilised for. Who is waheguru? And what merges? etc etc. Knowledge is the only way to retain shakti or spiritual energy, not dead knowledge living knowledge. If an individual cultivates his shakti without knowledge he will be a stupid saint, he will have energy but won’t no what end to use it for. Anyone who is honest to themselves should ask what their aims are in spiritual life, many people do not know.

My friend you are making a simple thing very complicated.

First of all no human being on this world can fight or be free from sexual thoughts ! no matter how much tapsya or yoga he does !

Second of all.... any human being who does a simple ardaas to WAHEGURU with full HUMILITY will instantly be protected from sexual thoughts, so if you get sexual thoughts pray to WAHEGURU and see your WILL POWER get double and triple .. this daass is saying from personal experience.

The problem is that most human beings will not do ardaas to maharaaj cos they really really enjoy masturbation