Black Goddess Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Baz, does Islaam not discourage a woman to wear makeup outside the home, as it can attract males? I just wondered because you said its perfectly acceptable to beautify yourself if you have insecurities. Also, a general point to everyone, people have said its ok to beautify yourself to your husbands, but I see women who dress up and wear so much makeup when going out to work, where they will not even see their husbands? I dunno, Singh47 makes a good point when he says not wearing makeup or bothering about it is actually freedom from all these social pressures. I think a lot of women are so insecure they have to 'enhance' their beauty in order to fit in, or look better for others. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrikingh Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 agreed with kali goddess 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexy_singh Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 i dont think anyone is disputing that "fact" but surely the way to "freedom from all those social pressures" isnt the equal opposite pressure not to wear makeup at all. Where is the freedom in that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Goddess Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 You're right SSingh, to enforce the opposite rule NOT to wear it can be extreme depending on how it is conveyed. I mean, the rule NOT to cut KESH is also and has to be enforced, does this mean it's wrong because it has to be imposed? It is conveyed with love, encouragement and by giving reasons. Similarly, you can tell your woman she does not need makeup because her natural beauty (and not moisturisers and stuff, actual makeup to enhance or in some cases hide real beauty) is enough for you? You can tell her she doesn't need to compete with other women because you think she's beautiful in her own unique way and others don't match up to the way she is, you can tell her not to worry, which woman in their right mind will not appreciate that type of love and guidance? You could also make a point of knowing why she has to apply excessive amounts of makeup when she is out and not even around you? Go to the root of the problem. It's really fascinating how men accuse women of being flirtatious and hindering their spiritual growth but allow them to dress like well..prostitutes in some cases. Even if you wear subtle makeup, you are still trying to enhance your natural self to impress OTHERS, is that really so important? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexy_singh Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 "You can tell her she doesn't need to compete with other women because you think she's beautiful in her own unique way ... which woman in their right mind will not appreciate that type of love and guidance? " i know singhs who do just that. myself, im a shallow idjiot. maybe with time that will change. cant resist a beautiful face .. and i suspect makeup helps to get that impression. impressing others isnt such a bad thing. its often useful. anyway. i leave this one for the women folk. it doesnt matter what i say. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Goddess Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 well at least you're honest sexy singh, and you're not a shallow idjiot, ur a funny idjiot, lol. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAZ Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Black Goddess it depends whos Islam you are talking about. Just as there is a wide range of opinion on this board on sikhism there is the same range of opinion in the muslim community. Some muslims believe that a woman needs to be covered in a veil while many dont believe in that. The Quran says that believing men and women must lower their gaze, and dress modestly. Now we can also get into hadiths (sayings of the Prophet passed down through a chain of narrators) but many hadith are surrounded by the same controversy as rehets as they are also open to interpretation. I personally think that a woman with less makeup on is more attractive and more beautiful than a woman who has it caked onto her face. There is nothing wrong with making oneself look good. This doesnt have anything to do with insecurities.. we all like to look good. Infact I would say Islam encourages it. But it also says that we shouldnt take things to an extreme. Muslim women at the time of the prophet wore surma and it wasnt discouraged. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
challenge_everything Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 why should men not colour thier beards? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh47 Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 N30 Singh, I know that you took amrit at Maltan Gurdwara and the Amrit Sanchaar was conducted by the Taksal. The rehet that the Panj impart at Maltan is exactly the same as the one imparted in Mehta, Taksal's headquarters. If you want to disregard the hukam of the Panj in Maltan then that is your choice. I’m not too particularly surprised, because by your thinking, one can almost do anything thing & break any rule and still be a Sikh. Sorry to burst your bubble, but it doesn’t work that way. The hukams the Panj instruct us in, are to be followed no matter what excuse you have for not following them. Taksal and Mahpursh associated with it have always discouraged bibis from using makeup and jewelry. I have noticed recently that you have a new found fascination with Baba Jagjit Singh Harkhowal walay and his sampradah. It would surprise you to know that Baba Jagjit Singh Harkhowal walay also discourages women from wearing makeup and jewelry. Very few people in the west know that he is very strict when it comes to rehet. I guess some of you might start calling Harkhowal walay Sant as ‘Wahabi’. I request you people to please not start calling these great mahpursh as wahabi because that would bring about a lot of bad karma on you. But hey! maybe you have done more Bhagti then the Bhindrawalay and Harkhowal walay Mahpursh. You must have more budhi then them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 N30 Singh, I know that you took amrit at Maltan Gurdwara and the Amrit Sanchaar was conducted by the Taksal. The rehet that the Panj impart at Maltan is exactly the same as the one imparted in Mehta, Taksal's headquarters. If you want to disregard the hukam of the Panj in Maltan then that is your choice. I’m not too particularly surprised, because by your thinking, one can almost do anything thing & break any rule and still be a Sikh. Sorry to burst your bubble, but it doesn’t work that way. The hukams the Panj instruct us in, are to be followed no matter what excuse you have for not following them I took amrit from dixie not malton i took amrit from taksal - yes- but i was never told if you are tie your beard you get peshi from doing that or do ardas...nothing like that ..they were not very strict on tying beard and stuff..they understood we live in canada..if there is work related issues- you can tie it....after amrit-sanchar....i remember i requested one of the panj pyarey to talk to me...and asked him- about maryada...he told me- maryada helps you to get to goal but not a goal itself. yes they were against - make up and jewelery..since i m not a bibi...it doesn't apply to me...get it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Taksal and Mahpursh associated with it have always discouraged bibis from using makeup and jewelry. I have noticed recently that you have a new found fascination with Baba Jagjit Singh Harkhowal walay and his sampradah. It would surprise you to know that Baba Jagjit Singh Harkhowal walay also discourages women from wearing makeup and jewelry. Very few people in the west know that he is very strict when it comes to rehet. I guess some of you might start calling Harkhowal walay Sant as ‘Wahabi’. I request you people to please not start calling these great mahpursh as wahabi because that would bring about a lot of bad karma on you. But hey! maybe you have done more Bhagti then the Bhindrawalay and Harkhowal walay Mahpursh. You must have more budhi then them. you got little carried away there and starting putting words in to people's mouth...singh aagay apni jaat taie..that's what i expected from chameleon character like you ... ....what i understand from baba jagjit singh ji books and tapes- when he does bachan..it's straight up when it comes to panthic maryada...yes he is straight against women doing make up's and all ...but he DOES NOT discriminate against bibiya who are amritdhari and into full naam simran and still do little make up ..he see- one avastha first and do bachan...i did sangat of him when he came over....since he is from same bhai dya singh sampardha as baba isher singh ji from...i got atam updesh from him... He is a bibeki mahapursh but you be suprised to see the difference between him and soo called bibekis of tapobanis..lol.....huge difference... I got atam updesh from him..he accepted me of who i was...singh with wearing small kirpan ..he didn't converted me to bebiki like tapobanis doo.....mahapursh harkhowaley place they were staying ..they took food from amritdharis who were not bibeki infront of my own eyes...and they went to people's houses...people who served him were keshdharis..not sure they were amritdhari's though. If you want i ll send you few of his bachans..actually listen to it. and broanden your horizon....it might make you un-easy though...don't end up like wahabis.....yes this is offer to you to cross the floor for goooooooood ! :wink:...heheh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
challenge_everything Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 come on guys lets not fight a personal battle - u are two grown up adults i assume 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Goddess Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Yeah dudes, chill. Baz, I understand what you're saying, but does it not specifically state in the Quran that women should not adorn themselves with jewellery and so on, or wear anklets which er jingle so as to cause uneccesary attention to themselves? I remember reading that verse in the Quran, maybe you understand which one? If I have the wrong interpretation then I apologise. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAZ Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Black Goddess this is the quote from the Quran: -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Striking their feet on purpose in order to attract men by the sounds of their anklettes is what is talked about near the end of this verse. Actions are judged on the intention. I read this verse as saying that a woman should not flaunt herself to men to make them sexually attracted to her. This verse says that she should not display her beauty and ornaments in order to seek attention from men but it does not say that ornaments are forbidden to her either... "they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof". When a man sees a woman dressed in very revealing and tight clothes that purposly show off the curves of her body then he will get sexual thoughts in his head. I have seen hijabi women dressed modestly with a little makeup on and they looked beautiful in a nice pure way. This type of beauty doesnt bring sexual thoughts to mind. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
challenge_everything Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 isnt it the mans own lust which is evil? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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