katha vaachiks!

[drawrof]

Gurfateh to all,

I was reading another post and something came to mind. Who is an amazing katha vaachik and why? I have given a scenario below and would like each person who is interested in this discussion to name a kathavaachik and why he/she is preferred.

Many people are revered as excellent katha vaachiks. I'll give reasons that I have seen that justify their credibility:

gyani A speaks in a very terse pind-like manner, simple

gyani B speaks eloquently and touches on sanskrit and persian to make a point, articulate

gyani C is from Y order/sect and they have puratan katha (again this not anti-taksal, anti-nihang, anti-nirmala), parampara

gyani D speaks very softly or with passion, charismatic

gyani E has had K thousand people accept amrit after his katha, convincing

And gyani X- he's chardiankallah...... (the blanket statement)

I would like to know what each person considers a good gyani to have a grasp of and what the gyani should be doing? let me spit out some thoughts of my own.

point 1: a gyani should understand, question, and acknowledge external influences in the explanation of gurbani.

ie. Is there a vedantic slant due to the explanations first being done in hardwar etc..... or is it a very structured/protestant slant because it was taught as part of a curriculum by teachers who had learnt in a similar way

point 2: a gyani should understand the language and languages involved with each shabad they translate and then communicate it to people

ie. if a shabad is in salok sahaskriti, explain what word X means in sanskrit and why it would have been used....look at gurbani going forward and not as a testament to why a person should do action A (ie. anachronisms)

point 3: MOST IMPORTANTLY; a gyani should know what he/she is trying to communicate and do it in a manner which best gets the point across. Ie. speak in english, (understandable english)

ie. I have seen some unpar looking (excuse me for being judgemental) kathavaachiks who use very complicated language and end up making theirselves feel very proud of their knowledge

please provide a kathavaachik, their best quality, what they lack and what you think entails a good kathavaachik

[Pheena]

My definition of a Katha Vachik is take from a Jain Mantra which i'll post below. There is a difference between a Teacher(Katha Vachik) and

Master (True Saint). A Teacher simply conveys the message that he has heard, it is not yet his experience. He/she may convey this message with such fluency that it directly mimics the state of Anubhav. Such is a Katha Vachik, who convey the wisdom or experience, but yet still hasn't fully experienced what he is conveying.

A Master is who Conveys what he is Living, What he has directly experienced. This difference is very difficult to differentiate, hence we see listeners of the Katha Vachicks labeling them as Saints, because they convey such the message with such fluency that it hypnotises the listner. Now before one starts to assume that I am belitteling Katha Vachiks, that is certainly not the case as the interpetation of the mantra will express my feelings. But a difference exists.

I have heard people say that Sant Singh ji Maskeen was a Katha Vachik, but I don't consider him a Katha Vachik, to me he was a Anubhav Vachik. It is very easy to be a Katha Vachik...all you need is the ability to speak with passion and charismatic as you have stated above as a quality of a Katha Vachik. But When a True Master, or a True Saint speaks the atmosphere shifts like no other. Master Does not speak from the example of other, his/her words are enriched with his Anubhav and only those who are sensitive enough can pick up on it.

The Mantra is here: http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...;highlight=jain

here is a cut of what i was speaking about:

The fourth: "Namo loye savva sahunam namo namo…" I touch the feet of the teachers." You know the subtle difference between a master and a teacher. The master has known, and imparts what he has known. The teacher has received from one who has known, and delivers it intact to the world, but he himself has not known.

The composers of this mantra are really beautiful; they even touch the feet of those who have not known themselves, but at least are carrying the message of the masters to the masses.

[Iron-Singh]

Gian Sant Singh ji maskeen stated about 3 years before he passed away at Singh sabha in Surrey, that "it is only now that I have started tasting Naam Ras after a whole lifetime of speaking/reading about it".

So I see what Pheena ji is saying about hypnotic katha where the listener thinks the speaker is speaking from experience.