Gurbani

[harpreet]

[/font:abf77f8e4f]Is it necessary to understand the entire Bani as contained in SGGS ji and other Granth. I am not very clear. Please advise. There are many lines that are not clear to me. Can I post them here for mutual benefit.?

[harpreet]

In the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, O Nanak, sing His Praises; they are so very dear to God. ||8||1||8||

The above line appears on ang 508[1] of SGGS.It is edicted that we should sing HIS praises and that those who does it are loving to God. Does GOd require this kind of sycophancy from us.? Is it really so. Should we praise HIM as He has produced me and has given me all kinds of things. Can you help me. i don't think that HE would like us to praise HIM. It i for us to remember HImas it gives us peace.

[tSingh]

Take the focus away from 'Him' and onto the qualification of a holy one. What motivates someone to sing His praises? Most importantly...for what reason are they singing His praises? This is about reliance and conviction.

[harpreet]

Thanks T singh ji,

As per your question as to what motivates one to sing HIs praises , I shall submit that I shall do with vigor as SGGS and Guru sahibaan has stated so. It is an edict for us. I pray to HIM for this reason. I have faith In Guru Sahib and so I am doing it.

I shall be grateful if you could let me know as to why should HE think me dear to HIM if I praise HIM. Since Guru Sahib has said so I do it . Since I do not know HIM I have little or no love for HIM. I have regard and fear of my Gurus only and that is a conviction enough to praise HIM. But most of my praise is directed towards my Gurus.

If my parents had not told me anything about God, probably I would not have thought anything about God. It should be true for many Of us.

Kindly do reply.

[tSingh]

Yes, what you are saying is the standard predicament and I respect your honesty. Naam means the various sargun qualities of Parmatma, 'deen dyaal', 'Sahib', etc. One does not truely sing them until one has recognised the need for total reliance upon Parmatma. In other words, having progressed in sadhana, in dhyan, having understood the nature of reality, having attained some level of gyan there comes a point at which the realisation occurs that nothing can happen without the grace of Parmatma. At this point one realises the futility of their own ego and takes recourse to total dedication to Parmatma. At this point strength and conviction are truely attained and the various Naams of Parmatma arise spontaneously. In this sense it is naam that sustains that individual. The Naams are sung, meaning they are expressed with total sincerity and deep emotional conviction. This is bhagti. At this stage, that glance of grace occurs...meaning they are the ones who are dear to parmatma. By 'dear to him' it means a change in predicament (not mere brownie points), in otherwords dear to him means having attained the glance of grace. This is not my own deduction but what I have been taught. I hope that helps.

[harpreet]

Thanks a lot once again for such a nice post.

It is true, sir, that right now I have little love for HIM. I have love Of my Gurus. I respect them and love them and hope that I shall rely on them than to someone whose form I can not define. I am more comfortable on Guru nanak ji as my Guru. I do pray but thru,. repetition Of Paath. I think it should help.

The situation can be best expressed with the help of an example of a flower. I sow a plant for its flower as these are beautiful. I water the plants to keep it alive and grow. I am happy when the flower blooms. It is just like the creator and myself. He has created me and he sustains, where is the question of Thanking HIM as He has created me as per HIS wish and will let me get merge with HIm when it pleases HIM. It is just like asking a flower to thank the creator for the existence and that it looks beautiful to all those who sees it. It is just like a flower who does not know as to what is to be done and why should be done. It just blooms without thanking me. Just because it does not thank me that I should not be forgetting to water the plant. I shall continue to do it till a time comes when it fades away in nature.

Like wise is this life. It continues as per the wishes of the Nature or The overall consciousness of this world. It is the nature from which we have originated and nature will it be when I am dead.

One should be either a first class fool or super human being to thank HIM for creating me and then put me through the cycle of 8.40 million and then let me appear in human form with the instructions that I should thank HIM[ not literally , but even doing Paath is thanking HIM] and finally get merged with HIm . But all this is pre-conditioned with HIS grace and will.If everything is to happen as per HIS will , what is the big question of thanking HIM and for what , that He created me as human being. It does not require any thanks.

It may sound an egotistical but then one starts from a scratch and makes concept of the existence of the self. You may as well opine as to why He should be praised and thanked. I do not know as to who I was in my past life and will not know in my future life as there is no evidence that I shall remember the present life in future life. If I had the guarantee that I would know as to what happened to me in the previous life that I may be tempted to remembe HIM. It seems slightly confusing to me. I am happy with my Paath and nitnem that I am able to adhere to. I do want to know about the Naam if it helps. May be it is 'wahay Guru' or not. But I shall remember HIM by this name as it helps. One may chant any name to arrive at some peace Of mind or to obtain similar end results. Gurbani also states that He should be remembered with every breath. Why so?

' saas saas simro gobind'

One may remember our guru [and not necessarily God] in times of difficulty. You may kindly tell as to why should I thank HIM when the procedures as precribed in our scriptures are not clear and do confuse a layman like me.The post has been written without major thought editing.

[harpreet]

ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਆਪੁ ਪਛਾਣੁ ॥

Through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, he comes to understand himself.

ਮਨੁ ਸਬਦਿ ਮਰੈ ਬੂਝੈ ਜਨੁ ਸੋਇ ॥੧॥

The mind is conquered through the Word of the Shabad; this is known to the Lord's humble servant. ||1||

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Kindly Explain the meaning of the above lines.I shall be very grateful. What is 'Guru's Shabad' and Word Of Shabad'

Thanks

[Xylitol]

There's no difference btween God and Guru according to Gurbani. The Guru is God in sargun saroop.

As for thanking him, no offense, but this is OUR ego. We don't feel grateful for each breath, for merely our existence. As we progress on this path, we keep doing our simran, we begin to feel immensely grateful and in constant wonderment for our gift of life and creation itself, as well as for the creator. This creator gives uncountable number of spoiled children breath, food, life, and countless gifts, all without being asked for them. When people ask for gifts, they get even more.

As we do simran, we gain more Naam energy

inside of us. So we get more God inside of use, become more like God. We lose our avguns(bad qualities) and gain guns (good qualities). Our lives become easier as people respond to us in a more positive ways, we get maya without asking for it. We gain in avastha(spiritual level) and gian. We begin to develop powers. We get darshan of shaheed singhs, and then our Gurus. We become mukt from the chaurassi lakh joon, and saved from hell and heaven. We begin to see through maya.

Ultimately, we do simran so we can fall at his charan in love, become one with him, and reach the ultimate goal of Bhramgyan.

[chatanga]

This is some deep thinking going on. Personally i dont think that most people can atain this knowledge so easily.

I asked my vidya guru once " why is the khazana ( gurbani) so big that it would take many people a life time to understand the mystery? "

he said" that most people dont have the karma to uynderstand it all, but what attracted people to sikhi initially was its simplicity. As long as people have the gurmantar they are already on the path. So repeat the gurmantar as much as you can. If people decided to try to unravel the mystery before they comiited themselves to this path, most of them would die before they even got to the first knot."

Now my understanding of gurbani is very weak. But if i took that as a whole that i will never know the whole mystery then i have already lost the battle. Reading the above posts makes me realise that i am quite thick compared to a lot of you others.

chatanga

[drawrof]

Xylitol, would it be that we gain more energy or is it that we become more open to seeing virtue...in that sense, since it is all god/guru's grace, would the simran not be a reflexive action which occurs because the grace has already happened?....how can we have more of the one which is already beyond abundance but appears as the pinnacle/epitome of abundance for us, those who can only understand quantifiable measures?

[harpreet]

I am thankful for your kind replies to my statement. I have no experience Of 'Simran' but hope that I shall also progress with due passage Of time. I shall keep you posted about the development. In the meantime, May I keep on posting my doubts. You all seem to be very nice people.

Thanks.

[tSingh]

edit

[Xylitol]

I also believe that we become more open to seeing virtue. As chinta recedes from our mind and chayta (remembrance of god) increases, i believe we become more receptive to grace and more open to seeing virtue. Definitely energy increases.

The simran I refer to is remembrance of God, by any means. I wasn't even referring the more advanced stage where simran happens by itself and requires no effort to do, although that would most certainly be included. I agree, grace is required for us to jap naam, even if it's not happening automatically.

an example of the increased energy is seen in more advanced seekers. These people need much less sleep than the average person and are able to continue working for much longer. This is due to having more energy, but also b/c they are more efficient. What I mean is, that thier mind is not constantly wasting energy in useless worldly thoughts.

[harpreet]

ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਆਪੁ ਪਛਾਣੁ ॥

[ My understanding:

Literal translation

It is thru. gurbani/guru's teachings that one comes to understand oneself.]

2.ਮਨੁ ਸਬਦਿ ਮਰੈ ਬੂਝੈ ਜਨੁ ਸੋਇ ॥੧॥

[my understanding:

Literal translation

Shabad kills the ego Of mind and he[seyi] knows this]

Kindly correct me.

[Xylitol]

sounds right as far as i know.