Kam1825 Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 This is a topic for both Christianity and Islam. Last night i sat at the Mormon Temple in Leicester chatting to a couple of my friends. Good group of people i must say. We were chatting about Jesus Christ (Issa) during the talk we were talking about the ressurection of Christ. At that point i spoke to them about the verses of the Koran to state that Issa was actaully risen to heaven and anohter of his likeness was placed on the cross. If this was the case there was no ressurection. I told them that from what i have heard on this forum that it may have been Judus or another individual that suffered on the cross but it was not Issa. They raised a valid question after hearing this. Many times throughout history has their been cases of religious and devout christions suffering the marks of christ known as the stigmata. In total their are five stigmata, 1) marks through the wrists or hands, 2) lashes on the back, 3) stigmata on the forehead from the crown of thorns, 4) the stigmata through the feet and 5) the stigmata of the spear piercing christ. They said to me why would so many devout christians suffer the marks of the messiah if it had never happened. Do these not show that Christ suffered these wounds for the sins of those who did not see him as the messiah and as a devotee one feels the love and pain that christ endured and at the same time strengthenng the faith of the devotee in their lord. Why would devout Christians experiance this supernatural phenomena if it had actually happened to Judas who according to the orthodox christians was the one that betrayed the Messiah (not a view shared by gnostics gospals or the gospal of judas) Now i throw this question to those more knowledgable. I thought this was a very good question. If Christ was risen to heaven why do people suffer these phenomena of Stigmata as it would have no signifigance on the faith of the individual if it never happened. And before anyone starts it has been proven as a phenomena and not a load of rubbish. Although the catholic church do not like to talk about it. Javanmard i am sure you will be able to answer this! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 1. What for Christ's sake were you doing in that house of lies called the Mormon Church :wink: 2. Ibn Arabi says that Jesus was nailed to the cross but that his body became pure energy. What remained on the cross was not Jesus. 3. The stigmata as late Shaikh Abdul Carney explained to me are actually a confirmation of the the Qur'an as the Jews thought they had killed Jesus but actually didn't kill him. The stigmata wearing mystics are a proof that Jesus is alive. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Why is it that some stigmata occurs on wrists and other on the hands... This also points towards the possibility of the manifestation of deep psychological beliefs.... the place of the wounds, depending on the belief/education of the individual i.e. if Jesus Christ was nailed through the hands or the wrists. It doesn't necessarily detract from the point made above, re it also being a mystical experience..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharag Singh Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 i think it was a documentary i saw where this women believed to have inccured stigmata and idols of Miriam and Issa blead teers of holy oil, which after analysis turned out to be chicken fat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 That's not idols who pindoo. These are icons. To call them idols is extremely offensive to Orthodox Christians. Don't use words you don't understand! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharag Singh Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 ok, let me get this clear a statue of mary or christ before nearly all christians bow to pray isnt an idol but an icon. Hmm wow your so clever 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawrof Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 ney kharag singh ji, the point was you were a pindoo....gosh stick on the topic!!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharag Singh Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 chalo back to my kheti baari then ill leave this argument for pig headed arogant scholars like Maharaj Shri 108 Sant Baba Javanmard Singh Shah Kumar Khan El Dorado Sahib Ji 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Orthodox christians don't use statues they use icon i.e. pictures. The people you were talking about are orthodox Christians. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharag Singh Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 i was talking about a woman in a documentary, see you are so arrogant and weak that you took it as a personal attack to christianity. I pity you and so does God. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 The woman in that documentary is a oriental christian and hence orthodox. This is happening in Damascus and oil is coming out of icons of the Holy Virgin. I am from a Catholic family and everyone here knows about this case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharag Singh Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 may i correct you statues of the virgin mary 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Icons... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharag Singh Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 how can a 3D statue be an icon. more correct term is IDOL! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 1. Statues aren't worshipped in Christianity so they're not idols 2. The case you talked about is the famous damascus case where holy oil drips out of an icon. And to cut all this short here is the video http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/searc...la-vierge-marie 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharag Singh Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 ye and when the oil was tested it turned out to be cooking oil and chicken fat! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Not in this case I am afraid...but as you have shown blatant ignorance about this case I'll just assume that this was just you burping thoughts out loud. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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