Vichaar on avatara

[amardeep]

Gurufateh.

There was a debate one year ago regarding the question on Guru Nanak being God himself or not and the debate mentioned something about the light of Guru Nanak having manifested itself earlier in history in other avataras..

i would like to know how the following verse is to be understood by tenth Nanak and if it has something to do with that topic:

Aad ant ekai avtaara, soe Guru samjhio hamara.

God is the only incarnate from the beginning to the end, all should know that he (Such God) is my Guru.

is it talking about the previous avataras of the past such as Jesus, Muhammad, Ram, Krishna Ganesh etc being Guravatars like Guru Nanak or is something else being descibred in this beautifull verse.

"Is the Divine Manifestation, God? Yes, and yet not in Essence. A Divine Manifestation is as a mirror reflecting the light of the Sun. The light is the same and yet the mirror is not the Sun. All the Manifestations of God bring the same Light; they only differ in degree, not in reality. The Truth is one. The light is the same though the lamps may be different; we must look at the Light not at the Lamp. If we accept the Light in one, we must accept the Light in all; all agree, because all are the same."

-Abdu'l-Bahá

[shaheediyan]

"Aad ant ekai avtaara, soe Guru samjhio hamara||"

God is the only incarnate from the beginning to the end, all should know that he (Such God) is my Guru."

Only Vaheguru is avtaar of all time - manifestations are time limited - their physical history only lasts for a certain time.

This is why manifestations teach mankind to draw focus upon the eternal source, and not themselves.

The Bahai verse is beautiful.

[Malwe Da Sher]

There some katha by Jathedar Baba Santa Singh of Budha Dal titled 'Sri Guru Nanak Aap Parmeshar' - I think its from Sri Sarbloh Durbar, should answer some questions.

[Kam1825]

i think the katha can be found on www.keertan.org under the katha section

[Guest]

Sikhi beleives in avtarhood: as sri dasam patsah in sri dasam granth sahib talks about avtar-

Jab Jab Arsat Hot Sansara ||

Tab Tab Deh Dharat Avtara ||

However, sri guru gobind singh ji also said: Aad ant ekai avtaara, soe Guru samjhio hamara.

One may call this contradiciton or may assume sikh doesnt beleive in avtarhood. However its far from contradiction because of its context, second verse- aad ant ekai avtara, soe guru samjhio hamara:

Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji - said Guru- Nirgun paratama who have made - all the avtars including hari avtar in sargun form its not my guru in essence, but its nirgun paratma- aad ant ek avtara(creator of all avtars) is my Guru. Krishan, Raam, Mohaammad were also human, that includes also sri guru nanak dev ji who came in human form- sargun as well.

Even though sri guru tegh bahudar ji is vidya/gyan data guru of sri guru gobind singh ji, however since guru maharaj is talking about tat gyan(essence of all), he is reffering to nirgun paratama as his guru- aad(even before existence) ant(even after end) ek avtara(there is only one god who takes form of avtars) soi samjeho guru hamara(consider that is my guru).

Guru Maharaj have said it so people don't go around worshipping him or idiolizing him, so that people only worship nirgun vahiguroo via shabad and nirgun upasana.