truthseeker546 Posted November 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 @paapiman It's an open forum, I talk to everyone and try to include as many people in the discussion as possible. Quote Also, you need to be aware that there are heretic(s) on this forum too. Really? how so? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthseeker546 Posted November 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 @paapiman - what sect are you? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthseeker546 Posted November 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Quote Is there any religious scripture which promotes the idea of sacredness of a goat? Has any Abrahamic Prophet (or any other) made any injunction, which calls for goat protection? Do you any evidence (scientific or religious) which can prove that goat's milk is meant for human consumption? You are free to call anyone mommy. It's your wish. Not that I'm aware - thought ancient religious would worship goats, and believe that had some supernatural powers. Greek mythology being one, since you're free to chose from previous religions, why not that one. I was hoping Sikhism would set up and give it holy status as it's obvious produces milk, which on some regards is better then cows milk. AND has other benefits. Google goats milk : you'll see its virtues. What you think Paapiman? can it be holy? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthseeker546 Posted November 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Slightly connected: I know some Hindus drink cow urine and some even eat cow dung, as they believe the cow is holy and it's defecation is nutritious. Are some Sikhs the same in that regard ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthseeker546 Posted November 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 I've restarted the Gods and Gurus page - please put all of those comments on that post please. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) 1 hour ago, truthseeker546 said: There is a big difference between laws the help bring about a common cohesive environment - laws which are agreed upon by most of the members of a society, including women, ethnic minorities, religious minorities etc These would be banning acts of public nudity, public sex etc - as they are banned in secular western countries. And say religious law which are not agreed upon by everyone – say killing cows for food. That’s discrimination and religious intolerance. The above is your personal opinion. Some people might claim that it is discrimination and intolerance to prevent them from having sex in public, walking around naked, etc. After all, they are not causing harm to any member of the society. What about prostitution? It is legal in some western countries. Are you in favor of Prostitution? Bhul chuk maaf Edited November 10, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) 57 minutes ago, truthseeker546 said: @paapiman It's an open forum, I talk to everyone and try to include as many people in the discussion as possible. Then pay attention, to who says what. Don't err in quoting people. Bhul chuk maaf Edited November 10, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) 44 minutes ago, truthseeker546 said: Edited November 10, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 44 minutes ago, truthseeker546 said: @paapiman - what sect are you? What is your religion? Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 41 minutes ago, truthseeker546 said: Not that I'm aware - thought ancient religious would worship goats, and believe that had some supernatural powers. Greek mythology being one, since you're free to chose from previous religions, why not that one. I was hoping Sikhism would set up and give it holy status as it's obvious produces milk, which on some regards is better then cows milk. AND has other benefits. Google goats milk : you'll see its virtues. What you think Paapiman? can it be holy? Answer this question first: Do you any evidence (scientific or religious) which can prove that goat's milk is meant for human consumption? Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 49 minutes ago, truthseeker546 said: @paapiman There is a big difference between laws the help bring about a common cohesive environment - laws which are agreed upon by most of the members of a society, including women, ethnic minorities, religious minorities etc These would be banning acts of public nudity, public sex etc - as they are banned in secular western countries. And say religious law which are not agreed upon by everyone – say killing cows for food. That’s discrimination and religious intolerance. What is your opinion with regards to women walking bare chested in public? Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 43 minutes ago, truthseeker546 said: Slightly connected: I know some Hindus drink cow urine and some even eat cow dung, as they believe the cow is holy and it's defecation is nutritious. Are some Sikhs the same in that regard ? Cow urine can be used in medication. What is wrong with that, if it can cure diseases? Do you have any evidence which proves that Hindus eat cow dung? Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 47 minutes ago, truthseeker546 said: Slightly connected: I know some Hindus drink cow urine and some even eat cow dung, as they believe the cow is holy and it's defecation is nutritious. Quote An anti-cancer drug extracted from cow urine and developed by an affiliate of the RSS has got a third US patent for its anti-genotoxicity properties Unquote [1] [1] - http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/cow-urine-drug-developed-by-rss-body-gets-us-patent/635054/ Do you believe in science or not? Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 @truthseeker - Paapiman can't see my posts. He keeps mentioning thatcows produce all this extra milk and wrongly thinks it must be for human consumption. But he ignorantly refuses to acknowledge that this extra milk only exists because we have genetically modified the cows, fed them hormones etc to force them to produce all this extra milk. Whike on the one hand he says that Sikhs MUST protect cows, he then conveniently blames 'someone else' for the cruel treatment of dairy cows and their calves, while he drinks his milk, turning a blind eye to the fact that it's virtually impossible to commercially produce milk without pain and cruel treatment of the animals. Sikhi advocates humane treatment of ALL animals. Not just cows. And this would include speaking against the cruel treatment of cows in the dairy industry. The only Sikhs who think the cow has some sort of special status, are the Sanatan Sikhs... those who are borderline Hindu in their practices or almost a hybrid of Hinduism and Sikhi. But then if they advocate special treatment of cows, they should NOT be using dairy, because the industry only exists for the demand. Don't buy it, and there won't be a demand to fill. So using dairy DIRECTLY contributes to the cruel treatment of the cows. It's impossible to avoid since this is the nature of the dairy industry! You can NOT drink milk and then say you advocate for cow protection. Using his government vs citizens as an example: The citizens VOTE IN THE GOVERNMENT. So if the citizens dislike what the government does, don't vote for them! Individuals can and do have an effect on the greater picture! SK @ Work 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 @truthseeker - Paapiman can't see my posts. He keeps mentioning thatcows produce all this extra milk and wrongly thinks it must be for human consumption. But he ignorantly refuses to acknowledge that this extra milk only exists because we have genetically modified the cows, fed them hormones etc to force them to produce all this extra milk. Whike on the one hand he says that Sikhs MUST protect cows, he then conveniently blames 'someone else' for the cruel treatment of dairy cows and their calves, while he drinks his milk, turning a blind eye to the fact that it's virtually impossible to commercially produce milk without pain and cruel treatment of the animals. Sikhi advocates humane treatment of ALL animals. Not just cows. And this would include speaking against the cruel treatment of cows in the dairy industry. The only Sikhs who think the cow has some sort of special status, are the Sanatan Sikhs... those who are borderline Hindu in their practices or almost a hybrid of Hinduism and Sikhi. But then if they advocate special treatment of cows, they should NOT be using dairy, because the industry only exists for the demand. Don't buy it, and there won't be a demand to fill. So using dairy DIRECTLY contributes to the cruel treatment of the cows. It's impossible to avoid since this is the nature of the dairy industry! You can NOT drink milk and then say you advocate for cow protection. Using his government vs citizens as an example: The citizens VOTE IN THE GOVERNMENT. So if the citizens dislike what the government does, don't vote for them! Individuals can and do have an effect on the greater picture! SK @ Work 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) 1 hour ago, truthseeker546 said: Quote The total quantity of milk a goat gives each day is considerably less than that produced by a cow. A good dairy goat provides between 6 to 12 pounds of milk a day for about a 305-day lactation. A good dairy cow provides almost five times that amount. Unquote [1] [1] - http://www.thejudgingconnection.com/pdfs/670_Comparing_Dairy_Goats_To_Cows.pdf What do you think, Mother nature is indicating? Do you think the excess milk (after consumption by the calf) is a waste product? Bhul chuk maaf Edited November 10, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 23 minutes ago, paapiman said: Quote The total quantity of milk a goat gives each day is considerably less than that produced by a cow. A good dairy goat provides between 6 to 12 pounds of milk a day for about a 305-day lactation. A good dairy cow provides almost five times that amount. Unquote [1] [1] - http://www.thejudgingconnection.com/pdfs/670_Comparing_Dairy_Goats_To_Cows.pdf What do you think, Mother nature is indicating? Do you think the excess milk (after consumption by the calf) is a waste product? Bhul chuk maaf @truthseeker - he actually thinks that cows naturally produce this amount of milk!!! Believe me, it's NOT natural for cows to have udders so large they trip over them! EVERY mammal (humans included) naturallyproduce SOME excess milk. However, cows gave been forced to produce nearly 10 times what they would normally, through supplements / hormones, and genetically modifying them. This is anything BUT natural! It was done BY humans, FOR humans... with no regards to the cows. SK@WORK 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Please have a look below. No mercy shown by Sikhs, towards cow slaughterers. Reference: Hari Singh Nalwa Champion of the Khalsa Ji Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) On 11/4/2015, 8:20:18, truthseeker546 said: Still waiting for that quote from SGGS by the way ... ਬ੍ਰਹਮਣ ਕੈਲੀ ਘਾਤੁ ਕੰਞਕਾ ਅਣਚਾਰੀ ਕਾ ਧਾਨੁ ॥ He who kills a spiritual person, a cow and daughters and accepts the food of an evil man, ਫਿਟਕ ਫਿਟਕਾ ਕੋੜੁ ਬਦੀਆ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ ॥ is cursed with leprosy of reproaches, misdeed and an abiding egotism. Bhul chuk maaf Edited November 22, 2015 by paapiman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) ਗਊ ਭੈਸ ਮਗਉ ਲਾਵੇਰੀ ॥ गऊ भैस मगउ लावेरी ॥ Ga▫ū bẖais maga▫o lāverī. A milk cow, and a water buffalo, I beg of You, ਇਕ ਤਾਜਨਿ ਤੁਰੀ ਚੰਗੇਰੀ ॥ इक ताजनि तुरी चंगेरी ॥ Ik ṯājan ṯurī cẖangerī. and a fine Turkestani horse. ਘਰ ਕੀ ਗੀਹਨਿ ਚੰਗੀ ॥ घर की गीहनि चंगी ॥ Gẖar kī gīhan cẖangī. A good wife to care for my home - ਜਨੁ ਧੰਨਾ ਲੇਵੈ ਮੰਗੀ ॥੨॥੪॥ जनु धंना लेवै मंगी ॥२॥४॥ Jan ḏẖannā levai mangī. ||2||4|| Your humble servant Dhanna begs for these things, Lord. ||2||4|| Edited November 22, 2015 by Singh123456777 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 10 hours ago, paapiman said: ਬ੍ਰਹਮਣ ਕੈਲੀ ਘਾਤੁ ਕੰਞਕਾ ਅਣਚਾਰੀ ਕਾ ਧਾਨੁ ॥ He who kills a spiritual person, a cow and daughters and accepts the food of an evil man, ਫਿਟਕ ਫਿਟਕਾ ਕੋੜੁ ਬਦੀਆ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ ॥ is cursed with leprosy of reproaches, misdeed and an abiding egotism. Bhul chuk maaf Ang 1413 Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Does the above include a person who kills a baby male cow born of a female dairy cow simply because the male is not considered useful in the dairy industry? How about those who condone such acts by drinking the milk?? The demand directly drives the industry... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Quote Narsingha said: Well, the cow is sacred...Gurblias Shemi (chapter 16) speaks of Guru Hargobind Sahib being the protector of the brahmin (ie, holy men) and the cow. As you have pointed yout jtsingh, Oogardanti Baani speaks of cow killing as a sin. Guruji speaks : "Give me this command that I may grab Turks and destroy them. The great evil of cow-killing may I stop in this world. The throne of the Moghals may I destroy" (Oogardanti Baani) "Fulfil this desire of mine. May suffering of cows stop. May the victory of the true Guru resound through out the world. (Oogardanti Baani) A text by Monier Williams, 'Religious Thought and Life in India' (1883) also speaks of killing of cows as "the most henious of crimes". Giani Gian Singh speaks of the actions of Akali Nihang Baba Jassa Singh Ahluwalia as: "Though, he was very against killing of cows. To stop this, he attacked many times Lahore and Kasur, and slayed the cow butchers." Twarikh Guru Khalsa, Giani Gian Singh (1894), Pa 734 As far as I recall, the text 'Kookiyan Di Vithia', by Ganda Singh mentions that against the orders of Baba Raam Singh, some Naamdharis killed innocent Muslim butchers (who were killing cows for meat). On 17th Jan 1872, 50 of them were shot for this crime by the British officer McCowan, using cannons. Unquote[1] [1] - http://www.sikhawareness.com/topic/4698-why-is-the-cow-sacred/ Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdsingh80 Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 The condition of Cows in India and in Punjab too 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthseeker546 Posted November 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 Humm I thought this discussion was locked. OK - back to Cow discussion - The last quote of @paapiman Quote against the orders of Baba Raam Singh Umm I was under the impression he lead the killings, hence why the British kicked him out of India. Anyhow why didn't anyone stick up for the goat - I made some good points. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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