Asexuality in Sikhism

[tva prasad]

i am really interested to know what sikhism says about asexuality. So, what are the sikh views on asexuality?

[sarabatam]

Good question. From what i've understood- sri guru granth sahib ji addresses to atma/surat-awareness/consciousness(which in itself is gender less) of human being to recognize its own source- Man Tu Jot saroop hai apna mool painchain || , its updesh/discourse is gender less regardless of sexual orientation.

[tva prasad]

@sarabatam thank you for putting what you understand forward.  😀

[sikhni777]

I doubt it whether bani has asexuality in it. Sometimes jeev atma is referred to as a female and God as a male. So there is definitely a talk about male and female going on. This is the only way that a union is possible.  

[paapiman]

12 hours ago, sikhni777 said:

I doubt it whether bani has asexuality in it. Sometimes jeev atma is referred to as a female and God as a male. So there is definitely a talk about male and female going on. This is the only way that a union is possible.  

God is refereed to as Genderless in Gurbani too. Therefore, asexuality might be a concept to further explore in Gurbani.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

On 12/29/2017 at 3:15 AM, tva prasad said:

i am really interested to know what sikhism says about asexuality. So, what are the sikh views on asexuality?

Do you mean whether it has been mentioned in any Sikh codes of conduct or historical sources? 

Do you think asexuality is a medical condition?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[tva prasad]

5 hours ago, paapiman said:

Do you mean whether it has been mentioned in any Sikh codes of conduct or historical sources? 

Do you think asexuality is a medical condition?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

1. I wanna know the sangat's views on it as well.  If there r any sources that talk about it that will be helpful. 

2. I don't really think it's a medical condition tbh. 

[MrDoaba]

21 hours ago, sikhni777 said:

I doubt it whether bani has asexuality in it. Sometimes jeev atma is referred to as a female and God as a male. So there is definitely a talk about male and female going on. This is the only way that a union is possible.  

Do you even know what asexual means? Parmaatma and aatma are genderless. The whole soul-bride analogy is used to make it easier for us to understand. It's a metaphor. It has nothing to do with an persons gender or sexual orientation in this life.

3 hours ago, tva prasad said:

i am really interested to know what sikhism says about asexuality. So, what are the sikh views on asexuality?

1. I wanna know the sangat's views on it as well. 

I think this is a brilliant question. And it's actually crossed my mind before, well sort of, I thought about what if one became asexual through Sikhi. I think for some people Sikhi definitely has aspects of asexuality in it. It all really comes down to an individuals perspective though. If you look at one extreme then you could almost ask yourself "how can one be Sikh and not an asexual?". I say this because if you were to give someone the gist of some Sikh theology: kill the five thieves, no difference between dukh sukh/pain & pleasure, no attachment, constant anand, see the jot in every being, merge with Vaheguru - I think asexuality would naturally be an effect of all this. Kind of difficult to explain, but I hope you see it from the same sort of angle. Of course, this would only apply if you managed to reach this stage. The only dilemma I see here, is if this was a married couple; even if they were more than happy not having a physical relationship, they might still want kids (or should?). Albeit if you reached such a high level of spirtuality in the first place then I'm sure you'd have enough Kirpa on you for procreation.

Then we have the "normal" view, which is what most of us practise; having sex for love or pleasure is normal (within marriage before you attack me), control the five thieves 'cus you can't kill them unless you're Brahmgyani, anand comes only after effort and leaves after said effort, try to see the jot in every being but still may (extremely likely) have some unconscious bias, hope to merge with Vaheguru in this joon if not at least do ardaas that we've been good enough for Mukti overall.

So now, with the above, where would an asexual fit in?

I think a lot of the questions we need to ask simply relate to what would apply if the individuals asexuality is such that they cannot have kids by conventional means, if you catch my drift? I believe as Sikhs we should have children if we can, barring those who choose to practise Brahmacharya for various but valid reasons. Apart from that I personally believe an asexual can lead a regular life. There's plenty of options, and I don't think there's anything wrong with it per se. Then again I'm not a Gyani or a scientist.

Here are some random musings in no particular order for others to ponder over:

Grist jeevan and marriage is (heavily) promoted but not necessary.

What does the individual think about marriage compared with Sikhi's view on marriage? What is this individuals view on having children and how does it compare with Sikhi's view on having children?

In an ideal world an asexual would get married to another asexual, which in layman's terms, would be a mission to set up.

There's plenty of Sikhs who are voluntarily celibate, so an asexual could follow the same sort of path as them, no?

What if they don't want to be a "Saadh" but don't want to get married either? Would it be considered wrong to be biologically fit but not to put your biology to good work simply because you're not attracted to anyone or have no interest in sex in any shape or form?

What would medically acceptable Sikhiwise to get around some obstacles for the sake of procreation/having kids if there really is a complete lack of sexual desire ? Donors, for unmarried folks (is that even allowed?)? IVF for married folks? Viagra?

Might it set a trend in the wrong direction to have openly asexual Sikhs?

What would be some negative things an asexual Sikh might face?

Could an asexual be "sexual" some day? Would they want to? Should they?

Hope this helps! Please share your views!

 

I don't know what I'm gonna do vis-à-vis marriage and kids because I've got a feeling my matrimonial ad will say something like:

Bhamanvaadi Sikh Male seeks suitable Bhamanvaadi Sikh Female.

Not sure if I'll get many replies so If there are any Bhamanvaadi Sikh females out there please PM me. I will give you all relevant details to take to your astrologer.

Thanks.

[paapiman]

One thing is for sure, if asexuality is not a medical condition, then it would definitely be a big blessing for spiritual people (especially who want to stay celibate in their lives). Imagine, not being sexually attracted to beautiful women (especially in Canada). It should definitely help a young spiritual aspirant.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[MrDoaba]

9 minutes ago, paapiman said:

One thing is for sure, if asexuality is not a medical condition, then it would definitely be a big blessing for spiritual people (especially who want to stay celibate in their lives). Imagine, not being sexually attracted to beautiful women (especially in Canada). It should definitely help a spiritual beginner.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

I wouldn't go as far as to say it's a blessing bro, maybe ONLY for people who want to stay celibate (for valid reasons). An advantage, sure. We also shouldn't overlook nature and the way the sareer is designed. We are hardwired this way for a reason, don't treat it like it's evil. Another point is one I have heard from Gursikhs when finding a partner: you must, I repeat, must, be attracted to your potential partner. Otherwise do not proceed with the rishta. Obviously there are other conditions to be met as well.

P.S. The highlighted sentence is hilariously put!

[paapiman]

Warning: Sexually explicit material below. Daas will kindly request sangat, below the age of 25 or people who are greatly affected by Lust, to stay away from this discussion.

Please forgive me for being explicit.

 

1 hour ago, MrDoaba said:

I wouldn't go as far as to say it's a blessing bro, maybe ONLY for people who want to stay celibate (for valid reasons). An advantage, sure. We also shouldn't overlook nature and the way the sareer is designed. We are hardwired this way for a reason, don't treat it like it's evil.

Bro, there are other things too which are natural to people (other than sexual attraction). Like for example, it is natural to feel angry (become infected with anger) when insulted or feel proud (become infected with ego) of some generous act done. Just because they are natural or hardwired into us, it does not mean that all of it is not evil. The way of the Sikh is the way of a warrior. There is a Dharam yudh, which we have to fight against the huge armies of the five demons with Thy grace (Gurbani, Rehat, etc).

Sikhs must only indulge in sexual activity with their wives for the purpose of procreation, not for pleasure or fun. If you want to reply to this, please do so in the topic below. Let's keep this topic more focused on asexuality.

 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

Warning: Sexually explicit material below. Daas will kindly request sangat, below the age of 25 or people who are greatly affected by Lust, to stay away from this discussion.

Please forgive me for being explicit.

1 hour ago, MrDoaba said:

 Another point is one I have heard from Gursikhs when finding a partner: you must, I repeat, must, be attracted to your potential partner. Otherwise do not proceed with the rishta. Obviously there are other conditions to be met as well.

You mean sexually attracted? Like, you might find a lady beautiful or cute, without being sexually attracted to her and on the other hand, it is possible to be sexually attracted to someone without finding her to be very beautiful. Hope you get the point.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[sikhni777]

If you have the right partner and you are attracted to a high level it is possible that when your union takes place , you can experience your soul travelling out of your body. This is the state which people try to achieve during samadhi.

Some Christian ladies always told me- if you get married your love should be two sided - your husband or wife should be able to love you back just as much. This is the God given love. 

[sikhni777]

Regarding the male state of unstablemind such tthat any woman on the road is enough to kick in the animal instinct - yep my hubby tells me akl those feelings coz I asked him ans and I can handle it - the state a man should reach is where the female body unclothed appears to have no effect.  This is what I readIin some old katha book where some rishi ji was being tested by God. He managed to achieve this stage. It is sort of going back to the days of adam and eve when they knew not what they could do and had no sense of their bodies not being covered. 

[MrDoaba]

13 hours ago, paapiman said:

Please forgive me for being explicit.

You are forgiven.

13 hours ago, paapiman said:

Bro, there are other things too which are natural to people (other than sexual attraction). Like for example, it is natural to feel angry (become infected with anger) when insulted or feel proud (become infected with ego) of some generous act done. Just because they are natural or hardwired into us, it does not mean that all of it is not evil. The way of the Sikh is the way of a warrior. There is a Dharam yudh, which we have to fight against the huge armies of the five demons with Thy grace (Gurbani, Rehat, etc).

I get what you mean bro. I think there's been a misunderstanding. I was trying to point out that sexual attraction isn't evil simply for the fact that it serves a purpose which is essential for procreation as far as I'm aware. Most, if not all, would have trouble doing the deed with someone who they find repulsive (both physically and psychologically), wouldn't they? Anger, ego etc are all natural too but they serve no real purpose. Having said that, sexual attraction can get out of hand as well.

Also, I don't know if I'd use the word evil per se.

13 hours ago, paapiman said:

Sikhs must only indulge in sexual activity with their wives for the purpose of procreation, not for pleasure or fun. If you want to reply to this, please do so in the topic below. Let's keep this topic more focused on asexuality.

Sorry for not posting in the topic you suggested, I think this is all rather relevant here.

There is nothing that suggests that sexual activity is only for procreation in Sikhi. That is your opinion. The whole idea that sex is bad/evil is a very Judeo-Christian concept. While there are Sikhs who practise this in reality, it does not make it a Sikh practise. I personally don't know of any Sikhs who engage in sexual activity solely for the purpose of having children. People also have sex out of love, and while that love is lowly love compared to the love of God, it's still relevant to dunyavi beings. If one is not allowed to have physical relations with his/her partner except for procreation, then what's the point of getting married? Might as well have children out of wedlock and carry on with our spiritual journey alone. You're also forgetting that the instituton of marriage also helps to control kaam. The panj vikaar, in most cases, cannot be completely destroyed. They can however be controlled. In addition to this, normal sexual behaviour differs from kaam IMHO; the desire for sex is a wholly natural process which seemingly can come out of nowhere without being prompted.

Marriages can fail for this reason alone; lack of phsyical intimacy.

Are you married? If not you are going to have a hard time if you want to bro. Seriously you should become a Brahmachari.

14 hours ago, paapiman said:

You mean sexually attracted? Like, you might find a lady beautiful or cute, without being sexually attracted to her and on the other hand, it is possible to be sexually attracted to someone without finding her to be very beautiful. Hope you get the point.

It's hard to say exactly what was meant when I was told. I took it to mean you must find your potential partner desirable, beautiful, pretty, fits the bill basically etc. Like I said though, there are some other factors which are equally important. This is just step one.

[paapiman]

16 minutes ago, MrDoaba said:

Anger, ego etc are all natural too but they serve no real purpose.

They do serve their purpose in real world for ordinary people. Anyways, Daas will post some examples in the relevant topics.

29 minutes ago, MrDoaba said:

Sorry for not posting in the topic you suggested, I think this is all rather relevant here.

Don't worry. Daas will take you there.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Soulfinder]

 

54 minutes ago, paapiman said:

They do serve their purpose in real world for ordinary people. Anyways, Daas will post some examples in the relevant topics.

Don't worry. Daas will take you there.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Veer Ji and others reading this message kaam lust only effects worldy people and all Bramgyanis Mahapurashs like Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji Rara Sahib, Sant Baba Jawala Singh Ji Harkowal, Sant Baba Harnam SIngh Ji Rampur Khera Wale, Baba Nand Singh Ji, Sant Attar Singh Ji and many more etc are not even effected or touched by kaam,krodh,lobh,moh,hankar.

 

Here is a saakhi from Baba Ji's Jeevani