mrsingh

​What better way is there for enemies of Sikhi to make the Sikh Panth so demographically small as to be politically irrelavant?
What's amusing is that it is dressed up superficially as respect for Sikhi (despite it being blatantly against the ethos of Sarbat da Bhala and purely only serving to strengthen the Hindutva agenda).
And sadly some of our people unwittingly imbibe this de facto anti-Sikh agenda of making Sikhs a smaller minority both unable to protect themselves nor serve the wider world and humanity where the Khalsa Panth should be at the forefront of doing where Ebola, floods, earthquakes, genocide, modern day slavery etc are happening.
 
 

No in fact it does Paapi man.
Those paapi's like yourself that drink, smoke, eat meat, use drugs, cut their hair are actually the vast overwhelming majority of the Punjab population and an even greater percentage of the​ India population more generally. You wish to exclude and alienate all those that do not mirror your own beliefs as non-Sikhs. The Hindutva forces that oppose Sikhs are delighted by your viewpoint as they mop up every person that you wish to exclude from Sikhi and include them within the Hindu fold. The result being that the Hindutva political base strengthens whilst the Sikh Panth suffers as time goes on.
So Sikhs have already been reduced from a 100million plus population that we could have been today down to arguably only1.8% of the Indian population if we include sehajdhari Punjabi-speaking Sikhs. What you propose is to reduce this 1.8% further to 0.18% (only those 10% that keep kes) so that democratically and politically the Sikh Panth has zero power to defend itself from any Genocide and nor have any ability to serve the poor and downtrodden for Sarbat da Bhala. As 0.18% equates to 1 in every 555 people which is powerless minority which will never hold any democratic sway or influence.
You need to understand that only by growing the Sikh Panth's population to a critical mass can we best defend ourself from events like 1947 and 1984 and only by having a larger population of the wider Sikh Panth will an enlarged Khalsa Panth population emerge in order to do seva in Punjab, India and worldwide to prevent genocides like Rwanda, to combat Ebola outbreaks, to assist after earthquakes and other natural disasters. By having an enlarge Sikh Panth population which accepts anybody who bows down before Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj as a Sikh, you yourself as a paapi are not prevented from following the beliefs you paapi currently hold.
 
 

Until we merge all biraderi-based Gurdwara's into single united Sangat Gurdwara's in the West and put an end to the associated matrimonial apartheid, Sikhi parchar cannot really be taken seriously by many.
Furthermore, only by accepting sehajdhari Europeans as new Sikhs (rather than insisting on them being Amritdhari in order for us to consider them Sikh) will greater number believe that the values they believe are best described as Sikhi and that they themselves are Sikh. The vast majority of human rights activists, animal rights people, those that helped the fight against Ebola are natural born Sikhs if only they knew it.
 

No in fact it does Paapi man.
Those paapi's like yourself that drink, smoke, eat meat, use drugs, cut their hair are actually the vast overwhelming majority of the Punjab population and an even greater percentage of the​ India population more generally. You wish to exclude and alienate all those that do not mirror your own beliefs as non-Sikhs. The Hindutva forces that oppose Sikhs are delighted by your viewpoint as they mop up every person that you wish to exclude from Sikhi and include them within the Hindu fold. The result being that the Hindutva political base strengthens whilst the Sikh Panth suffers as time goes on.
So Sikhs have already been reduced from a 100million plus population that we could have been today down to arguably only1.8% of the Indian population if we include sehajdhari Punjabi-speaking Sikhs. What you propose is to reduce this 1.8% further to 0.18% (only those 10% that keep kes) so that democratically and politically the Sikh Panth has zero power to defend itself from any Genocide and nor have any ability to serve the poor and downtrodden for Sarbat da Bhala. As 0.18% equates to 1 in every 555 people which is powerless minority which will never hold any democratic sway or influence.
You need to understand that only by growing the Sikh Panth's population to a critical mass can we best defend ourself from events like 1947 and 1984 and only by having a larger population of the wider Sikh Panth will an enlarged Khalsa Panth population emerge in order to do seva in Punjab, India and worldwide to prevent genocides like Rwanda, to combat Ebola outbreaks, to assist after earthquakes and other natural disasters. By having an enlarge Sikh Panth population which accepts anybody who bows down before Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj as a Sikh, you yourself as a paapi are not prevented from following the beliefs you paapi currently hold.
 
 

The four bujjar kurehits apply for the Khalsa only.

So you are saying that if a SIkh commits paap, then he is no longer a sikh? The Guru also says to pay daswandh - does that mean if you dont pay your daswandh, you are no longer a sikh? If a Sikh does'nt work for a living, is he no longer a Sikh then?
 
What do you make of this?

ਕਬੀਰ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਇਕ ਸਿਉ ਕੀਏ ਆਨ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਜਾਇ ॥
Kabeer, when you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart.

ਭਾਵੈ ਲਾਂਬੇ ਕੇਸ ਕਰੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਘਰਰਿ ਮੁਡਾਇ ॥੨੫॥
You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. ||25||
 

Where in the Guru Granth Sahib does it say kesh is a requirement for being a Sikh?

​Geezer, Sikhi was an open and inclusive faith from the days of our Gurus. So it does/has accommodated all kinds of people. You're just too dim to see that...
 
Anyway, regardless of your idiocy, the fact on the ground now is that the panth is made up of many people who aren't amritdhari but have some sort of ancestral or familial connection to Sikhi - be this in Khalsa or sehajdhari in roots.
 
If you think that ANY society has EVER developed over centuries in a simple, clear, linear fashion (like you're suggesting) without the impact and impress of the wider world on it - you must be retarded! Change is unavoidable.
 
If you think Khalsas of old turned their backs on nonKhalsas who were symphathetic and even supportive of them, you must be mad. 
 
Let people dive into Sikhi at the depth that they are destined for: Aap vichorayaa, aap milayaa. 
 
We've been through the stupid arguments and debates you're putting out before (trust me, heard it all before), and some of us have witnessed how detrimental they have been. 
 

When the panth had big losses in battles and when we were huntedhunted down, sehjdharis kept our numbers up. 

True that:
 
The closet allies amritdharis have is sehajdharis. The similarity in beliefs (despite the differences Paapiman focuses on), makes them much closer allies than any Hindu or Muslim sympathizers. Whenever I've seen the shit hit the fan in real life (NF, grooming gangs etc.), more 'patits' step up than people like Paapi - draw what conclusion you will from that... 
 
And despite whatever Paapi says about 'patits' many still have a very deep (And real!) affinity with the underlying ideas of Khalsaness. Amritdharis of old are a source of inspiration to them. Modern day 'equivalents' like Paapiman just moot all over a beautiful legacy.
 
 

I just feel outraged how someone can claim such BS like this. Where I used to live loads of goreh tried to start shit but once a Singh let's of a jaikaara the jackals run...
 
Dalsingh let's face it the glory days of sooormeh khalsa is long gone. People are scared,scared to get in trouble with the law or if their wife finds out. I believe there are tons of coward amritdharis, disgusting. If you can't defend yourself or others you have no right to wear a kirpan that's worse as an attacker may take the blade and use it against you. The worst paap is to let someone take your own shastar and use it against you,beisti di gal.
 
Crystal 

Paapiman is a pendu from India who obviously hasn't got a lot of life experience Crystal, factor that in. 
 
Taking Amrit is probably the only thing he has done to make himself feel good about himself, hence his clinging onto it in the way he does. 
 
Boy, I remember a few decades ago when goray and kalay would knock people's paghs off, or pull off their jooras for fun. The main people who would step up to the bullies would be monay Sikhs. People like Paapi would have been the type to have got targeted hard, and I bet he would never even try to fight back...
 
Personally I feel there is nothing lower in the quom than a cowardly amritdhari - that is a complete  and utter travesty.

It's Sikhs like you who make my blood boil with your self righteous shit just because you have taken amrit. Let me hit you with reality, taking amrit is the first step not the last so stop making it out like that.
We are all equal in the eyes of maharaj, we are one panth. stop trying to segregate us!!!!
 
How many non khalsas have their life for the panth? Or are you going to dismiss that and come out with some BS like "oh they will be reborn as khalsa".
 
I find your bhul chak marf posts a bit annoying esp when you post crap like what you said, you just want a slap..happy to give you sajja little boy. 
 

The benefit of reservation was not given to Budhist Dalits it is only recently they India accepted that they too should be included in the reservation category.I even read that Sardar Patel was not willing extend benefit to Lower caste Sikhs ,but Thanks to Master Tara Singh the benefits were extended to them O/W all the lower castes Sikhs would had declared themselves Hindu's

No matter what Ravidassia's say the fact is they will never ask GOI to recognise them as separate religion as if their demand is fulfilled then reservation benefits will be stripped of as the entire religion can never be in the category of reservation

The other day I went to the guru ghar to do some seva. I was cutting up veg(as chefs do) and this freshie joined me. We got talking while doing langhar seva and he said tera caste ki. Quite frankly I was shocked, never have I been asked in the guru ghar what caste I belong to. I assumed he was a jatt, turns out I was right. 
 
It got me thinking though are our people that fixTed on caste? Why does it matter so much to some people?
 
Crystal

What has if he was Singh or not got to do with it? We are the followers of the same Satguru right, so.............
 
Crystal

I think you have DISGUSTING views if you really believe with what you saidsaid above. A Mona cannot be classified as a Sikh? Who gives you the right? 
 
Crystal

Why can't a mona be classified as a Sikh?

Real talk jaikaara. I know plently of high castes so called jatts and tharkhans who find it funny to make fun of chooreh chumar. However they happily talk and eat with khans and other sulleh but with a choora no way would they sit and eat with them.
Jatts and tharkhans arent even high cazte...they are the same level.
 
Crystal

People who boast of their caste, actually don't have much, to be proud of. They hide behind these caste names to inflate their ego. On a related issue, in Guru Ghar all people should be motivated on this path, calling out Non-amrit ones isn't helping anyone. Beginners should be encouraged. Be the bridge between your fellow person and god, don't burn it. 

I bet even the hereditary 'occupational trades' background of people haven't been as consistent as made out either. 

seems extremely doubtful. with enemies on all sides people tend to forget internal divisions. those things creep back in later, after the dust has settled (during maharaja ranjit singh's raj for example). Such an insanely harsh "punishment" for another sikh, during a time of war and uncertainty, when both high and low have to share food out in the field (during campaigns) anyway??? a fake sakhi imo.

​Sikhi was a missionary faith but from past 100-150 years It is more Punjabi tribalism. The issue of state of Punjab are considered as sikh issues. Punjabi language is considered as sikh language.
 
My brother told me that  it takes months for few of his friends from Oriissa , to understand that punjabi hindu and sikhs are different.. sometimes few religions got stuck in this like jews , jains and parsis .These religions never become religion of masses 

Thank you for your comments MrSingh. I am very glad that your solition is to fight the inner challenges of the Panth, rather than just getting rid of the missionaries. Cause this is the way forward - to solve our issues so its not attractive for people to convert out of SIkhi. The way people do today is to hunt down the Muslim, Hindu and Christian missionaries instead of adressing the reason WHY people want to leave sikhi in the first place.

Okay so you at least agree with me, its not just Singhs that need to learn self defence... I think we are in agreement actually... I don't see how we are disagreeing LOL.  
I said that both girls and boys need to learn martial arts / self defence.  And that not teaching these things to girls is what is opening them to being targeted... if it wasn't clear in my last post that's what I meant :) that teaching girls to be timid and submissive opens them up to grooming, conversions etc. 
But I am right about is not being the only reason. I personally know several girls (Punjabi) who married out of Sikhi and converted (both to Christianity) because they were fed up with being told they were equal in Sikhism, but then finding that they were limited compared to the boys in many ways. What's really ironic is that I LEFT Christianity for some of the same reasons, but seeing Sikhi without the cultural goggles, I can separate culture from the religion. And caste is also part of that.  
My best friend, I mentioned above, background is Ramgharia, and it's fine with recognizing the family background as it pertains to what your family historically did for work etc. Where it's wrong is to discriminate based on it. Her potential future husband choice should not be based on that.  Though I think she may go against her father on this in the end... but caste seems to be very common issue still with Punjabi born Sikhs, mostly those still in India. Hopefully with time it will die out... 
​you are one to talk Paapiman!  LOL Read my LAST line in that last message. I had said let's not get off topic! So trying to scorn me means nothing! And you are the one getting into arguments about kesh and who is sikh or not, when that has nothing to do with the thread!  You are being a hypocrite! Your posts are really getting annoying, not just to me but others as well. Please leave the moderating to the actual moderators!