mrsingh

This has nothing to do with being missionary. World isn't black and white..!!

I believe there is big difference between deb dristi - pure perceptive direct knowledge of future events without looking into any reference hand lakhir palm lines and methodical palm reading astrology.. Deb dristi is direct knowledge of future and past through awakened consciousness and astrology is methodical framework study of five element body readings. It's imperative we don't confuse the two. 

Wow you actually posted something that agreed with what I said and without telling me to shut up. And I just looked out the window and I don't see any pigs in the sky...
 
For me personally, I just feel guilty if something with a consciousness was killed - their whole life gone - for me to have just one more meal... so it's not like their life even sustained me for the rest of mine, but just one meal, just another day only.  Is that what the whole meaning of their life came down to??  I know some won't understand what I am trying to say.  And I am dead set against factory farming practices, usage of antibiotics and hormones in animals because of the conditions of factory farming and the resultant diseases among the animal populations, torture of animals ("broiler" chickens probably the worst of all... I won't summarize it here, but easily found online).
Now.... plants they are finding also have rudimentary consciousness... and can react to pain. (look up experiments on plants using anesthetic... its very interesting what it suggests!) so now what am I supposed to eat?? LOL.
At least bee vomit and eggs are only products of animals and not life in their own right... LOL.  (p.s. I always use the "bee vomit" thing to spark a reaction from people too! But I adore bees... without them we are in trouble as most plants which we eat fruits and vegetables from are pollinated by them.  Bee keeping for honey helps maintain populations.... in Asia they are already needing to hand pollinate!)
 

ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ ੧ ॥
ਜੇ ਕਰਿ ਸੂਤਕੁ ਮੰਨੀਐ ਸਭ ਤੈ ਸੂਤਕੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
ਗੋਹੇ ਅਤੈ ਲਕੜੀ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਕੀੜਾ ਹੋਇ ॥
ਜੇਤੇ ਦਾਣੇ ਅੰਨ ਕੇ ਜੀਆ ਬਾਝੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
ਪਹਿਲਾ ਪਾਣੀ ਜੀਉ ਹੈ ਜਿਤੁ ਹਰਿਆ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਇ ॥
ਸੂਤਕੁ ਕਿਉ ਕਰਿ ਰਖੀਐ ਸੂਤਕੁ ਪਵੈ ਰਸੋਇ ॥
ਨਾਨਕ ਸੂਤਕੁ ਏਵ ਨ ਉਤਰੈ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਉਤਾਰੇ ਧੋਇ ॥੧॥
Dhan Guru Nanak ...

your post reminded me about a shabad

ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ ੧ ॥ सलोकु मः १ ॥ Salok mėhlā 1. Shalok, First Mehl:
ਜੇ ਕਰਿ ਸੂਤਕੁ ਮੰਨੀਐ ਸਭ ਤੈ ਸੂਤਕੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ जे करि सूतकु मंनीऐ सभ तै सूतकु होइ ॥ Je kar sūṯak mannī▫ai sabẖ ṯai sūṯak ho▫e. If one accepts the concept of impurity, then there is impurity everywhere.
ਗੋਹੇ ਅਤੈ ਲਕੜੀ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਕੀੜਾ ਹੋਇ ॥ गोहे अतै लकड़ी अंदरि कीड़ा होइ ॥ Gohe aṯai lakṛī anḏar kīṛā ho▫e. In cow-dung and wood there are worms.
ਜੇਤੇ ਦਾਣੇ ਅੰਨ ਕੇ ਜੀਆ ਬਾਝੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ जेते दाणे अंन के जीआ बाझु न कोइ ॥ Jeṯe ḏāṇe ann ke jī▫ā bājẖ na ko▫e. As many as are the grains of corn, none is without life.
ਪਹਿਲਾ ਪਾਣੀ ਜੀਉ ਹੈ ਜਿਤੁ ਹਰਿਆ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਇ ॥ पहिला पाणी जीउ है जितु हरिआ सभु कोइ ॥ Pahilā pāṇī jī▫o hai jiṯ hari▫ā sabẖ ko▫e. First, there is life in the water, by which everything else is made green.
ਸੂਤਕੁ ਕਿਉ ਕਰਿ ਰਖੀਐ ਸੂਤਕੁ ਪਵੈ ਰਸੋਇ ॥ सूतकु किउ करि रखीऐ सूतकु पवै रसोइ ॥ Sūṯak ki▫o kar rakẖī▫ai sūṯak pavai raso▫e. How can it be protected from impurity? It touches our own kitchen.
ਨਾਨਕ ਸੂਤਕੁ ਏਵ ਨ ਉਤਰੈ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਉਤਾਰੇ ਧੋਇ ॥੧॥ नानक सूतकु एव न उतरै गिआनु उतारे धोइ ॥१॥ Nānak sūṯak ev na uṯrai gi▫ān uṯāre ḏẖo▫e. ||1|| O Nanak, impurity cannot be removed in this way; it is washed away only by spiritual wisdom. ||1||
 

Okay there is a HUGE difference between a chicken egg and human 'menstrual waste' as Paapiman puts it. But I am not surprised that he tries to use women's periods to justify his position on eggs.  Because, women are gross and unclean right... 
I think the real issue is that in India there is no strict isolation on chicken and hens so the eggs can sometimes be fertilized - mind you you might never know because they would be consumed before anything grew in there that was visible.  But it's the thought of killing a potential life.  In North America, there is no chance the eggs are fertilized as the hens are kept away from the males all together. So there is no chance of killing a potential life.  And the hen lays the egg regardless.  
If there is nutrients and protein in eggs then why would anyone look at them as gross?? As long as they are not fertilized we aren't killing anything.  At least the inside of the egg is sterile!  More than I can say for milk.... which by the way actually has an allowance for the amount of 'pus' it can contain (sine cows are milked so much they develop infections in their udders) and then they are pumped full of antibiotics to combat that, and who knows how much of that stuff we are getting.
You'd be grossed out by just about everything you eat if you only knew.... there are allowances for number of insect pieces allowed in canned vegetables and sauces are particularly bad.  Something like 4-5 full maggots per bottle of sauce.  Insects notoriously get into grains... do you think all the grains are gotten rid of??  Think of all those bugs having sex in your grains and lentils and beans Paapiman!!! 
HAHAH
P.S. I LOVE honey and it's considered nature's super food as it contains so many compounds which are beneficial... it's both anti-inflammatory and antiseptic, is much better to use as a sweetener than sugar and is full of antioxidants.  
You know all these things are just in your head if you find them gross... 

What a joke Indian treatment of cows is one of worst in India. And Farmers in Punjab and Haryana are abandoning cows for profitable buffaloes as 16000 crore of worth buffalo meat is exported from India .Punjab has 75% buffaloes and Haryana has 80%. Infact .What is shocking is that Mathure the birth place of Krishna have abandoned cows . There are 5 times more buffaloes in Mathura
 

 
Farmers in Punjab and Haryana are raising buffalo for meat and milk
 
 
 
 

Back in the 1700s the Singhs probably even are insects in the jungles. Right now our people are like god damn Brahmins and are scared shitless. They still have these stories of Singhs eating chickpeas etc (which might be true in some instances) but we all know that the Singh had to eat meat. If I had to live in the jungles I too will hunt and fish cause that's how the old Singhs survived.
Our people are too much about shanti and bhagti and not much about shiv shakti.

In india the eggs a lot of times are fertilized and that's why those groups do not eat eggs even if they are not fertilized in the west. I'm not sure if the nihangs eat eggs. Does anybody know?
In my opinion there is nothing wrong with eggs that are not fertilized. There is no killing involved to get the egg.

As I said time has changed  , there are not many places in world where now minority is ruling over majority. India was ruled by handful of muslims. . Han chinese were ruled by Manchu's , and then handful of colonisers were ruling over entire world.
Now look around world blacks have taken over Africa , Hindu' ruling India , Budhists in Mynamar etc
 
As far jews are concerned they are not ruling directly , much more like conspiracy theory that jews have power. There only 1 nation is world was given by Europeans because of guilt they had in WW2
 
. And you must be living in your fantasy world to think that Sikhs were  following rehat according to your belief . Bhangi misl got its name because its sardars used bhang. Maharaja ranjit singh's court was full of people who drink Alchohol apart from few strict muslim. Meat and intoxicants were always widespread with sikhs

thats not really answering the point though is it. which scenario gives us more of a chance? 5 lions votes vs 6 sheep votes?

1. I have not said things like porn or gand da tokra, thats what I meant by 'distasteful posts' in the other topic. Learn to read before assuming things: "You will not see a single distasteful post from me against the Dasam Granth, I try to remain objective in my study and keep the past baggage, assumptions, blind faith aside"
2. I have quoted so many sources that give only Guru Granth Sahib sources for nitnem from the 18th century and you have still your head up your bund. Take it out and read the sources I mentioned.
3. Extremely limited or not, whatever material we possess is in favor of GGS Banis as Nitnem. The only sources that talk about Japji Jaap are dubious as I debunked them, still waiting a rebuttal. And not a single source exists giving 5/7 Banis as Nitnem besides so called oral tradition.
4. Namdharis have been debunked with historical sources, try to do the same to me ;)
 

What are you so afraid of that you are actually suggesting we should abandon historical study to find out the truth?  Are you so worried about the wool being pulled off your eyes and that you will feel embarassed for believing in something that may not have been exactly what you thought it was? 

I think it's a far larger injustice to propagate information without knowing the truth...

But this situation is STILL more better prospect than your 5 lions 1000 sheep rule.

They have to want to be part of the Panth as well. If the Khalsa or mainstream Sikhs are wanting more rights for Sikhs/Panjab in India, or Khalistan, are the Sehajdharis going to support this being a mix of Hindus/Sikhs?
I was hoping that Sikhs would have got over this kind of thinking. Like it or not the indian state is too strong militarily, we can't beat them in armed confrontation, as per your 5 lions 1000 sheep thinking. The mentality should be numbers. 5 lions can never outvote 1000 sheep, or 6 sheep for that matter, and that is why we will always have the disadvantage. Its the main reason we lost our western-Panjab Sikh heritage to Pakistan in 1947.
 
Remember that 5 lions can be ruled by 6 sheep.

one thing i have heard from many Sikhs, not caste specific, is the number of Biharis coming to Panjab for a better life and detesting any improvement/progress made by them, when the Sikhs have done the same thing coming to the West.

Germany lost because whole world pounced on them.And Britishers and USA were not far behind in science.It was USA that got atom bomb in 1945 .

The vast majority of the scheduled castes (83%)  in Punjab either belong to the Chamar or Chuhra castes. Chamar are also listed as Ad Dharmis. Whereas Chuhras are listed as either Balmikis or Mazhabis.
Ad Dharmis are not classed as a separate religion or even as a Hindu sect but as a caste and hence Adharmis can either report their religion as Hindu, Sikh or Buddhist as a scheduled caste person can only belong to these three religions.
Of 1,045,126 Ad Dhamis in Punjab in 2001, 882,738 (85%) returned their religion as Hindu and 133,114 (13%) were Sikhs. Although I don't have the numbers according to district but Ad Dharmis are a Doaba phenomenon and hardly found in Majha or Malwa. Chamars in Doaba tend to list themselves as Ad Dharmis in Doaba and just as Chamars in the rest of Punjab. Of 1,839,082 Chamars in Punjab, 1,309,377 (71%) were Sikhs and 526,863 (29%) were Hindus.  Chamars who are not from Doaba tend to Sikhs rather than Hindus.
The Chuhras who are listed as Balmikis are another phenomenon of Doaba althought Balmikis are also found in all the large cities of Punjab as well. Of 785,464 Balmikis in Punjab, 559,617 (71%)  were reported as Hindus and 223,885 (29%)  were Sikhs.  Of the 2,220, 945 Mazhabis, 2,188,429 (98.5%) were Sikhs and 32,329 (1.5%) were Hindus.
 

If Astrology was a real science  then Why so many Hindu kings battles against muslim invaders. Why Scientific britishers took over India and all Astrologers , saints  were unable to predict anything to kings who used to hire best of them. It is not real science.

The big question is can you change the future with Deb drishti? How many sants were able to predict events 1947 partitions and warned sikhs? How many predicted bluestar? How many 1984 riots ? Hardly any one was able to predict or save innocent lives.
 
I think the people that have these  things may can see the events but none of them have power to change it. It happened with my father . He had a collegue  who used to tell him that his forefathers were great meditators and sometimes use to lift from the ground and he too have some spiritual knowledge. One day he just slightly meditated and and try to see my Dad's future and then he just said if I tell you, you will cry , That's it , His prediction became partially true as 2 year later my father suffered an accident and suffered badly
 

This is my last post on this thread. 

First line says "ਸਾਹਾ ਗਣਹਿ ਨ ਕਰਹਿ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥". Guru Nanak starts of by saying: O Pandit, you make calculations (ਗਣਹਿ) to obtain an auspicious date for the wedding (ਸਾਹਾ), but you do not contemplate.
Contemplate what? The answer is: ਸਾਹੇ ਊਪਰਿ ਏਕੰਕਾਰੁ ॥ - that God is above these auspicious days.The one who meets the Guru - ਜਿਸੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਮਿਲੈ, realizes the (real) way (to ascertain auspicious days) - ਸੋਈ ਬਿਧਿ ਜਾਣੈ. How? By following Gurmat, one realizes Gods Will. 
ਝੂਠੁ ਨ ਬੋਲਿ ਪਾਡੇ ਸਚੁ ਕਹੀਐ ॥ - Pandit do not lie, speak the truth. Now it is clear from the context that the lie is about the calculations and auspicious dates. When egotism is removed with Shabd, then one finds his Home. (ਹਉਮੈ ਜਾਇ ਸਬਦਿ ਘਰੁ ਲਹੀਐ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥)
Calculating and counting, the astrologer draws the horoscope. (ਗਣਿ ਗਣਿ ਜੋਤਕੁ ਕਾਂਡੀ ਕੀਨੀ ॥) He studies it and announces it, but he does not understand reality. ( ਪੜੈ ਸੁਣਾਵੈ ਤਤੁ ਨ ਚੀਨੀ ॥ ) The Word of the Guru's Shabad is above all.   Do not speak of anything else (i.e. astrology); it is all just ashes. (ਸਭਸੈ ਊਪਰਿ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ ਹੋਰ ਕਥਨੀ ਬਦਉ ਨ ਸਗਲੀ ਛਾਰੁ ॥੨॥)
And so on, till we arrive at the tuk I quoted: 
ਗਣਤ ਗਣੀਐ ਸਹਸਾ ਦੁਖੁ ਜੀਐ ॥ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸਰਣਿ ਪਵੈ ਸੁਖੁ ਥੀਐ
Astrological calculations about one's future create suspense or sorrow in one's heart; But by seeking the Guru's refuge, one always remains in peace and comfort.
It is crystal clear from the opening line that the Guru addresses a Pandit regarding the calculations he makes to draw a birth chart to eventually fix an auspicious date for the marriage. Guru Sahib tells him that he does not realize that Parmatma is above these; as all days are created by God. The Guru encourages to speak about nothing else than GurShabad (in this context the Guru is referring to the kundlis). And the Guru continues till he says that instead of creating suspense or sorrow in your heart by supposed revelations of your future; instead embrace the Guru and remain in peace and comfort (by living in his Will and accepting Hukam).

Do whatever you like but don't justify this as sikhi.

Because Paapiman and Bhagat seem to be in denial here is the whole shabad:
ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥
ਸਾਹਾ ਗਣਹਿ ਨ ਕਰਹਿ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ ਸਾਹੇ ਊਪਰਿ ਏਕੰਕਾਰੁ ॥ ਜਿਸੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਸੋਈ ਬਿਧਿ ਜਾਣੈ ॥ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਹੋਇ ਤ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ ॥੧॥ 
ਝੂਠੁ ਨ ਬੋਲਿ ਪਾਡੇ ਸਚੁ ਕਹੀਐ ॥ ਹਉਮੈ ਜਾਇ ਸਬਦਿ ਘਰੁ ਲਹੀਐ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
ਗਣਿ ਗਣਿ ਜੋਤਕੁ ਕਾਂਡੀ ਕੀਨੀ ॥ ਪੜੈ ਸੁਣਾਵੈ ਤਤੁ ਨ ਚੀਨੀ ॥ ਸਭਸੈ ਊਪਰਿ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ ਹੋਰ ਕਥਨੀ ਬਦਉ ਨ ਸਗਲੀ ਛਾਰੁ ॥੨॥
ਨਾਵਹਿ ਧੋਵਹਿ ਪੂਜਹਿ ਸੈਲਾ ॥ ਬਿਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਤੇ ਮੈਲੋ ਮੈਲਾ ॥ ਗਰਬੁ ਨਿਵਾਰਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸਾਰਥਿ ॥ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਜਪਿ ਹਰਿ ਕਿਰਤਾਰਥਿ ॥੩॥
ਵਾਚੈ ਵਾਦੁ ਨ ਬੇਦੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੈ ॥ ਆਪਿ ਡੁਬੈ ਕਿਉ ਪਿਤਰਾ ਤਾਰੈ ॥ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਚੀਨੈ ਜਨੁ ਕੋਇ ॥ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਤ ਸੋਝੀ ਹੋਇ ॥੪॥ 
ਗਣਤ ਗਣੀਐ ਸਹਸਾ ਦੁਖੁ ਜੀਐ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸਰਣਿ ਪਵੈ ਸੁਖੁ ਥੀਐ ॥ ਕਰਿ ਅਪਰਾਧ ਸਰਣਿ ਹਮ ਆਇਆ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਹਰਿ ਭੇਟੇ ਪੁਰਬਿ ਕਮਾਇਆ ॥੫॥
The so called 'calculations' (gannt) is to make a birth chart, not the normal everyday maths. 

BhagatSingh;

Go to panna 904 and read the whole Shabad Guru Nanak Maharaj addresses to a Pandit as is evident from ਝੂਠੁ ਨ ਬੋਲਿ ਪਾਡੇ ਸਚੁ ਕਹੀਐ ॥ (panday = pandit). One of the tuks clearly mentions the word "jotak": ਗਣਿ ਗਣਿ ਜੋਤਕੁ ਕਾਂਡੀ ਕੀਨੀ ॥
Therefore it is clear that Guru Nanak is talking about the futility of drawing birth charts and calculating auspicious days. I would just request you to next time read a whole Shabad before creating an issue, thanks.
 

Not really medical science can be compared with ayurveda not astrology.